Grand Prix Rejects

Captain Hammer wrote:Reports in Autosport's digital edition and Greek journalist Dimitris Papadopoulo (also known as f1enigma) suggest that Force India will field Paul di Resta and Nico Hulkeneberg in 2012:

Autosport mag : Hulkenberg is set to be promoted to a race seat next year alongside Paul di Resta. Story from @eddstrawF1 at @AUTOSPORTdigi

Hulkenberg signed a 1y deal with Force even the parties dont want to comment http://bit.ly/plKqIh (http://motorsport-total.com)

The report says that the deal was done on Tuesday What a coincidence! I tweeted the news on Tuesday

German paper Der Spiegel has also picked up on the story, and they're suggesting Adrian Sutil will join Williams in the place of Rubens Barrichello.

So, no Raikkonen in 2012, then. I'm nonplussed.

Not a Raikkonen fan, but...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

I have mixed feelings about that. I'd like to see Hulk get another chance, but I'd also like to see Kimi back in F1.

It would be interesting to know if Sutil was sacked or chose to left. It would be a very unfair call if he was sacked, but presumably Hulk had a guaranteed drive for 2012 when he signed for them (like Liuzzi did when he joined in 2009), and someone had to go.

It'd be nice to see Sutil and Raikkonen at Williams (maybe they wouldn't collide then), but that will only happen if Chavez's health problems get worse, I suppose.

Sutil to Williams is no surprise. But seriously, Raikkonen to Williams?!

AdrianSutil wrote:Sutil to Williams is no surprise. But seriously, Raikkonen to Williams?!

There is logic behind it:

Raikkonen wants to come back top F1, but wants a realistic chance at victories and championships, not just to make up the numbers. To do that he's going to need a Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari or (possibly) Mercedes, all of these teams have potential seats available in 2013 (Webber, Hamilton, Massa, Schumacher out of contract.) These teams are unlikely to hire Raikkonen if he's been out of F1 for three years (same as Schumacher, and look how he struggled), however if Raikkonen comes back with a midfield team in 2012, successfully adapts to Pirelli tires, KERS and DRS and generally impresses, then his chances of a top drive for 2013 are much better.

Williams have the potential to be top of the midfield, but after the disaster of 2011 have little to lose and so might be more willing to gamble on Raikkonen. The question is, can Williams afford him/how much is Raikkonen willing to work for a small wage (by his standards).

Don't worry guys, F1 REJECT Taki Inoue has the scoop on this whole Kimi thing!

http://twitter.com/#!/takiinoue/status/ ... 5401986048

That says roughly "Raikkonen to Williams decided for next year! Discuss!" Now, as for why on earth Taki Inoue would be the first person in the world to report it as confirmed, I have no earthly clue. This was posted by MTV3 on their website's F1 news section yesterday and I had to go check Inoue's Twitter page to see if they mistranslated the tweet or something, but it appears he actually did say that.

Ed24 wrote:I have mixed feelings about that. I'd like to see Hulk get another chance, but I'd also like to see Kimi back in F1.

It would be interesting to know if Sutil was sacked or chose to left. It would be a very unfair call if he was sacked, but presumably Hulk had a guaranteed drive for 2012 when he signed for them (like Liuzzi did when he joined in 2009), and someone had to go.

It'd be nice to see Sutil and Raikkonen at Williams (maybe they wouldn't collide then), but that will only happen if Chavez's health problems get worse, I suppose.

Sutil isn't being sacked for Hulkenberg. It's far more likely that he got an offer from Williams, or rather, was attracted to the thought of being number 1 in Williams and bringing them back to the front of the grid, as well as wanting to be in a new team for a change, since he's been there since 2007. That, and he probably doesn't want to be engulfed in the Direstamania going on now.

I also remember Hammer going on about why Hulk didn't go to Virgin instead and try to impress in poor machinery, rather than take up a test role. This is why. His career is now back on track, instead of being off track and in the gravel, which is where his Virgin career would have been spent!

Peter wrote:Sutil isn't being sacked for Hulkenberg. It's far more likely that he got an offer from Williams, or rather, was attracted to the thought of being number 1 in Williams and bringing them back to the front of the grid, as well as wanting to be in a new team for a change, since he's been there since 2007. That, and he probably doesn't want to be engulfed in the Direstamania going on now.

Well we don't know that for sure yet.

Ed24 wrote:

Peter wrote:Sutil isn't being sacked for Hulkenberg. It's far more likely that he got an offer from Williams, or rather, was attracted to the thought of being number 1 in Williams and bringing them back to the front of the grid, as well as wanting to be in a new team for a change, since he's been there since 2007. That, and he probably doesn't want to be engulfed in the Direstamania going on now.

Well we don't know that for sure yet.

Especially as these Raikkonen rumours seem to be gathering pace. Kimi will demand number 1 status.

And Raikkonen has reportedly been under intense training back home in Finland. Plus, he once again retired from a rally - Catalunya - without bothering to re-enter.

AdrianSutil wrote:

Ed24 wrote:

Peter wrote:Sutil isn't being sacked for Hulkenberg. It's far more likely that he got an offer from Williams, or rather, was attracted to the thought of being number 1 in Williams and bringing them back to the front of the grid, as well as wanting to be in a new team for a change, since he's been there since 2007. That, and he probably doesn't want to be engulfed in the Direstamania going on now.

Well we don't know that for sure yet.

Especially as these Raikkonen rumours seem to be gathering pace. Kimi will demand number 1 status.

Knowing Williams, they'd give it to him if he came there...

I don't think Kimi really cares about status, paddock politics or being a lead driver.

He could've demanded number 1 treatment at Ferrari as so many others have done, but didn't, and Ferrari had a very productive 2.5 years, with a mutual respect between the drivers which I think spurred the drivers on and through creating a positive environment, also helped the team as the drivers were happy to help one another at the end of the year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95648

Translation: Chances are he's out of a drive for next year

Wizzie wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95648

Translation: Chances are he's out of a drive for next year

Which is a shame really. I was already imagining him following the footsteps of other great journeyman like Johnny Herbert, Jarno Trulli, Nick Heidfeld, Rubens Barrichello or his mentor of sorts, Giancarlo Fisichella!

Adds fuel to the Kimi speculation though doesn't it?

The Sutil story sounds similar to Barrichello here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95306

Doesn't look good for either of them to be honest. Seems to imply Force India will have Di Resta and the Hulk, and Williams taking Kimi and Pasta. I fear Force India are making a mistake with that, similar to how Renault and Sauber seem to have gone backwards a bit this year without an experienced driver.

which teams have seats left for next year still? 1 at williams 1 at fi both hrts 1 at virgin anymore? str??

S951 wrote:which teams have seats left for next year still? 1 at williams 1 at fi both hrts 1 at virgin anymore? str??

Red Bull:
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button

Mercedes:
Michael Schumacher
Nico Rosberg

Renault:
TBA
Vitaly Petrov (TBC)

Williams:
TBA
Pastor Maldonado (TBC)

Force India:
TBA
TBA

Sauber:
Kamui Kobayashi
Sergio Perez

Toro Rosso:
TBA
TBA

Caterham:
Heikki Kovalainen
Jarno Trulli

HRT:
TBA
TBA

Virgin:
Timo Glock
TBA

Underlined names mean confirmed drivers for 2012. I usually keep track of this in the first post of this thread.

Obviously, in Toro Rosso the seats will go for 1 in short-list of 4. And the Renault seat is dependent of Kubica. If he doesn't return next year it probably should go to Grrrrrrrrrrrrjjjjjjnnnnnnnnnn.

James1978 wrote:The Sutil story sounds similar to Barrichello here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95306

Doesn't look good for either of them to be honest. Seems to imply Force India will have Di Resta and the Hulk, and Williams taking Kimi and Pasta. I fear Force India are making a mistake with that, similar to how Renault and Sauber seem to have gone backwards a bit this year without an experienced driver.

At the very least it sounds as if Rubens might be on the way out, though personally I have my doubts over whether Kimi will be replacing him, or whether he would be the best choice for Williams overall.

Sutil might, however, still have a chance at a seat in 2012 with a midfield team thanks to the sponsorship revenue he has from Medion - OK, it isn't a massive amount of money compared to some (we're talking about maybe a few million euros a year), but it is something else that he has in his favour.

I'd say Sutil's chances aren't looking good, but it all depends on Kimi. He won't have enough money for the Virgin drive, Toro Rosso have enough drivers, and as for HRT, he might be a chance to replace Liuzzi, but that's it.

Of course it's ironic that while Sutil seems to have escaped criminal charges for his glassing incident, it's probably taken away one of his few remaining legitimate drives for 2012.

how desperate do you think rubens would be if he doesn't keep the williams seat and no chance at renault? FI is pretty much locked out as is str although can't tell with their musical seat arrangement. Rubens to mvr!

Autosport Magazine reports that French GP2 driver Charles Pic will test for Toro Rosso at Abu Dhabi in the rookie test. They also say he has access to large funding......Expect to see him at HRT next year then

The question is, who will leave STR then? Because probably this means Ricciardo will move up to STR. Or will he stay there to have a one-year shootout between the two to grab the STR seat?

Shizuka wrote:The question is, who will leave STR then? Because probably this means Ricciardo will move up to STR. Or will he stay there to have a one-year shootout between the two to grab the STR seat?

Probably Buemi? Unless STR want to get rid of the CEPSA sponsorship, which I believe relies on DJ Squire remaining at the team.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

Shizuka wrote:The question is, who will leave STR then? Because probably this means Ricciardo will move up to STR. Or will he stay there to have a one-year shootout between the two to grab the STR seat?

Probably Buemi? Unless STR want to get rid of the CEPSA sponsorship, which I believe relies on DJ Squire remaining at the team.

I too think that Buemi will be the one to leave. Specially since DJ Squire is beating him in the overall standings and, lets be honest, while Buemi put some solid drives here and there he hasn't shown the same potential DJ Squire has, IMHO.

jpm wrote:Autosport Magazine reports that French GP2 driver Charles Pic will test for Toro Rosso at Abu Dhabi in the rookie test. They also say he has access to large funding......Expect to see him at HRT next year then

I've read rumours in connection with Pic with all three backmarker-teams already, he seems desperate to offer his money... I mean to get a ride in F1.

QuickYoda41 wrote:

jpm wrote:Autosport Magazine reports that French GP2 driver Charles Pic will test for Toro Rosso at Abu Dhabi in the rookie test. They also say he has access to large funding......Expect to see him at HRT next year then

I've read rumours in connection with Pic with all three backmarker-teams already, he seems desperate to offer his money... I mean to get a ride in F1.

He can forget Lotus. Virgin won't re-sign D'Ambrosio so could see Pic going there. Unless Charles Pic is another youth product of the Red Bull programme, Virgin looks the beat bet.

AdrianSutil wrote:

QuickYoda41 wrote:

jpm wrote:Autosport Magazine reports that French GP2 driver Charles Pic will test for Toro Rosso at Abu Dhabi in the rookie test. They also say he has access to large funding......Expect to see him at HRT next year then

I've read rumours in connection with Pic with all three backmarker-teams already, he seems desperate to offer his money... I mean to get a ride in F1.

He can forget Lotus. Virgin won't re-sign D'Ambrosio so could see Pic going there. Unless Charles Pic is another youth product of the Red Bull programme, Virgin looks the beat bet.

Pic has no connection with Toro Rosso. I can honestly see him going to HRT; Virgin would be stupid not to resign d'Ambrosio, who has done very well this year. Given a better car, I think he would be at least as good as the likes of Senna or Petrov. (di Grassi likewise, he was never really given a chance.) If Virgin are gonna replace d'ambrosio with anyone, it'll be Rob Wickens, who is backed by Marussia (Vigin co-owners), and who won FR 3.5 this year. He's also been runner up in the inaugural F2 and GP3 seasons. He is the next Jacques Villeneurve, he just needs backing. and now he has it...

DanielPT wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

Shizuka wrote:The question is, who will leave STR then? Because probably this means Ricciardo will move up to STR. Or will he stay there to have a one-year shootout between the two to grab the STR seat?

Probably Buemi? Unless STR want to get rid of the CEPSA sponsorship, which I believe relies on DJ Squire remaining at the team.

I too think that Buemi will be the one to leave. Specially since DJ Squire is beating him in the overall standings and, lets be honest, while Buemi put some solid drives here and there he hasn't shown the same potential DJ Squire has, IMHO.

So going on that, Glock will be let go by Virgin then, as d'Ambrosio is ahead of him in the standings? Buemi has annihalated Alguersuari in quali, and overtaken more cars this year than anyone apart from Button. I honestly think buemi is a better bet than alguersuari; the Spaniard makes more mistakes too. I reckon Alguersuari will go at the end of this year, with ricciardo coming in, and Vergne at HRT with Pic. Grosjean to Renault. The Hulk to The Force. And Sutil to Williams. Sorted

jpm wrote: He is the next Jacques Villeneurve, he just needs backing. and now he has it...

Is that a typo? Because it is a great one! You know, given the way Jacques Villeneuve gets on my nerves every time he opens his mouth...

As in Canada's new hero...but yes I see what you mean

In terms of Virgin, Glock has already re-signed for at least one, it might be two season I can't quite remember. I also think they'll stick with D'Ambrosio, he's been pretty solid this year, even though Di Grassi wasn't given much of a chance, he was far more inconsistent than D'Ambrosio.

jpm wrote: He is the next Jacques Villeneurve, he just needs backing. and now he has it...

If he wants/needs backing, he probably shouldn't be going around to would-be sponsors saying "I'm going to be the next Jacques Villeneuve". That's a bit like trying to get yourself elected on the promise that "I'm going to be the next Muammar Qaddafi".

jpm wrote:If Virgin are gonna replace d'ambrosio with anyone, it'll be Rob Wickens, who is backed by Marussia (Vigin co-owners), and who won FR 3.5 this year. He's also been runner up in the inaugural F2 and GP3 seasons. He is the next Jacques Villeneurve, he just needs backing. and now he has it...

Agreed, Wickens is a star in the making. Though I would digress from calling him the next Jacques Villeneuve, given Villeneuve's rather damaged reputation among people who aren't already fans of his.

jpm wrote:So going on that, Glock will be let go by Virgin then, as d'Ambrosio is ahead of him in the standings? Buemi has annihalated Alguersuari in quali, and overtaken more cars this year than anyone apart from Button. I honestly think buemi is a better bet than alguersuari; the Spaniard makes more mistakes too. I reckon Alguersuari will go at the end of this year, with ricciardo coming in, and Vergne at HRT with Pic. Grosjean to Renault. The Hulk to The Force. And Sutil to Williams. Sorted

I think both STR drivers are very rough around the edges, actually, neither has shown that much consistency. I think the Saurus is the better all around package, though, he's shown improvement since coming into F1, while Buemi is still the same error-prone but occasionally quite quick rookie he was in 2009. Plus he's far more likeable (not that that counts for anything).

As for Grosjean to Renault - no. Kubica's coming back with a vengeance, whipping Renault back into shape, getting a couple more podiums and showing he's lost none of his talent, before replacing Massa and then making mincemeat of Alonso en route to winning the title. You'll see. You'll all see...

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:As for Grosjean to Renault - no. Kubica's coming back with a vengeance, whipping Renault back into shape, getting a couple more podiums and showing he's lost none of his talent, before replacing Massa and then making mincemeat of Alonso en route to winning the title. You'll see. You'll all see...

I sincerely hope that HWNSNBM is listening/reading (you know what I mean)...

RRRRMMMMNNNN GGGGRRRRJJJJNNNN will be driving in free practice for the final two races of the year. The driver situation at Group Bahar will be most interesting over the next few months.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/10/29/grosjean-drive-practice-final-rounds/

Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Raikkonen-Sutil for 2012 anyone? On paper that actually looks like a very, very good lineup...

kostas22 wrote:Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Raikkonen-Sutil for 2012 anyone? On paper that actually looks like a very, very good lineup...

Have you taken consideration of how crap the car is going to be? So it won't make much difference.

Also, Virgin Racing seems to be a career death trap. I haven't heard much from Lucas di Grassi since his venture into F1 last year, and I doubt Glock or d'Ambrosio will get much better drives. It's sad, since both di Grassi and d'Ambrosio are unproven, and Glock is a better driver than what he's putting up right now.

JeremyMcClean wrote:

kostas22 wrote:Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Raikkonen-Sutil for 2012 anyone? On paper that actually looks like a very, very good lineup...

Have you taken consideration of how crap the car is going to be? So it won't make much difference.

I think the strategy here is:
1.Sign top of the line driver
2. Business flocks into team due to massive hype because of it
3. Use investments to develop car, facilities, and pay said top class driver
4.??????
5.Profit

kostas22 wrote:Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Ah ha, you see. What about a third driver that brings in money?

Sutil - Raikkonen with Tha Pasta as the third?

RealRacingRoots wrote:

kostas22 wrote:Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Ah ha, you see. What about a third driver that brings in money?

Sutil - Raikkonen with Tha Pasta as the third?

Don't think PDVSA would allow Maldonado to be a 'test driver'. But Sutil-Raikkonen would be an interesting line-up. I'm all for it

Peter wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

kostas22 wrote:Adam Parr commenting Williams don't 'need' a second driver bringing in money.

Raikkonen-Sutil for 2012 anyone? On paper that actually looks like a very, very good lineup...

Have you taken consideration of how crap the car is going to be? So it won't make much difference.

I think the strategy here is:
1.Sign top of the line driver
2. Business flocks into team due to massive hype because of it
3. Use investments to develop car, facilities, and pay said top class driver
4.??????
5.Profit

Ahh, the old Underpants Gnome method. It's more sensible than anything Parr has come up with until now.