Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **27 Jun 2015, 16:27**

Gerudo Dragon wrote:what if F1/GP2/GP3 were made into a multi-class series

Chaos

Posted: **27 Jun 2015, 22:12**

Gerudo Dragon wrote:what if F1/GP2/GP3 were made into a multi-class series

Posted: **28 Jun 2015, 08:14**

Biscione wrote:
Gerudo Dragon wrote:what if F1/GP2/GP3 were made into a multi-class series

Topkek.

Posted: **30 Jun 2015, 07:56**

What if Webber and Vettel after 2010 went to Mercedes as a "F you" to Red Bull for all the negative press Seb got and all the crap Mark got. Assuming Schumi never came back to drive and Rosberg went to Red Bull.

Posted: **30 Jun 2015, 12:17**

Nico Rosberg would've been World Champion - unless Red Bull snapped up Robert Kubica. Then he would've been World Champion.

Posted: **20 Jul 2015, 04:49**

What if Patrick Depailler hadn't suffered injuries from his hang gliding accident in 1979?

Posted: **20 Jul 2015, 14:35**

Hopefully this doesn't sound like too much of an unimaginative cop-out..

Obviously he completes the 1979 season with Ligier, showing well, but Ligier's competitiveness in general declined as Ferrari, Renault and Williams's new cars bedded in (FWIW I've never bought the "setup lost on a Gitanes packet" myth, they simply got their new cars built and sorted sooner than their rivals and beat up on mostly 1978-model cars in South America), he'd have still gathered a decent haul of points however.

But - with Pironi seen as a coming man and Laffite on balance being the better Ligier driver in the first races of the year, I could see a situation where Pironi ends up in the #25 Ligier for 1980 anyway. For instance Jabouille didn't do much wrong in 1980 (well he only finished one race - which he won - but that was mostly down to mechanical problems), but still found himself out at Renault in favour of the other up and coming French driver, Prost.

Obviously the question is even if that's the case does Depailler still end up in that Alfa that suffers the suspension breakage at the Ostkurve. Well I imagine Alfa's re-entry was well funded, and highly tipped - given the marque's history in the sport, and the fact their engines had won races in Brabhams (even if they were considered a bit of a handicap by Brabham's engineers themselves especially with ground effect coming in).

I also imagine that after the toe in the water exercise of 1979, they'd want a "name" driver to lead the team alongside the relative newcomer Giacomelli. Depailler as a race winner and front runner for many years with Tyrrell and Ligier fitted the bill here.

A year later they went for Mario Andretti, but this was after two bad years with Lotus (without hindsight, he probably allowed Lotus one bad year), and also the Alfa had been the quickest car in Giacomelli's hands in the last race of 1980, so it probably seemed like a no-brainer for him to go for '81. I doubt they could have lured him a year earlier.

So if Depailler was out at Ligier anyway and in need for a ride, I can see him still chancing himself with Alfa over say, going back to a Tyrrell team (that had lost FNB and Elf sponsorship since he left) in a swap with Pironi.

Posted: **22 Jul 2015, 10:24**

I'm sure I never asked this here.

What if 2007 European/German GP was red-flagged permanently on that point which was Markus Winkelhock on the lead? What if Winkelhock's gamble on restart works again for 2nd time? What if Winkelhock really won that race?

Posted: **22 Jul 2015, 16:01**

AxelP800 wrote:I'm sure I never asked this here.

What if 2007 European/German GP was red-flagged permanently on that point which was Markus Winkelhock on the lead? What if Winkelhock's gamble on restart works again for 2nd time? What if Winkelhock really won that race?

If the race had been permanently red-flagged, the finishing order (of probably the shortest race in F1 history :deletraz:

) would be in this case:
1. Markus Winkelhock
2. Felipe Massa
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mark Webber
5. David Coulthard
6. Heikki Kovalainen
7. Kimi Raikkonen
8. Alex Wurz

With half-points awarded, it would change the standings to this:
(out of 165 points)
1. Kimi Raikkonen - 111 points
2. Lewis Hamilton - 109 points
3. Fernando Alonso - 102 points
4. Felipe Massa - 90 points

In this championship Alonso never really closes the gap Hamilton creates in the middle of the season, and Lewis has a much more commanding lead than in the reality. At the same time, however, Raikkonen moves into the runner-up spot as early as the Japanese Grand Prix, being that he was the only one of the top four to benefit from this changed result. He would have been far less "under the radar", and it would have been far more focused on Raikkonen against Hamilton rather than the intra-McLaren rivalry.

Winkelhock would move up to 16th in the championship with 5 points, with the only other major changes being Mark Webber losing out and dropping to 13th place, and well, yeah. Under that finish most of the usual suspects are still there or thereabouts. Red Bull would lose a huge chunk of points (going from 10 to 4.5 in the result), whilst Spyker would finish 8th in the championship on 6 points, same as Honda.

I personally don't think a Hamilton-Raikkonen rivalry would have been as interesting as the one we ended up with, but I think everyone would have loved Winkelhock to have won the race. Would have been one of the shock results in Formula 1.

Posted: **22 Jul 2015, 17:39**

Gerudo Dragon wrote:what if F1/GP2/GP3 were made into a multi-class series

A few people are threatening to do that during the off season week on iRacing, albeit with something like F1/Lotus 79s/ProMazda because there's no GP2 or GP3 in that game. If it comes to fruition this off season, I will endeavour to participate and record.

Posted: **23 Jul 2015, 14:35**

Rob Dylan wrote:
AxelP800 wrote:I'm sure I never asked this here.

What if 2007 European/German GP was red-flagged permanently on that point which was Markus Winkelhock on the lead? What if Winkelhock's gamble on restart works again for 2nd time? What if Winkelhock really won that race?

If the race had been permanently red-flagged, the finishing order (of probably the shortest race in F1 history ) would be in this case:
1. Markus Winkelhock
2. Felipe Massa
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mark Webber
5. David Coulthard
6. Heikki Kovalainen
7. Kimi Raikkonen
8. Alex Wurz

With half-points awarded, it would change the standings to this:
(out of 165 points)
1. Kimi Raikkonen - 111 points
2. Lewis Hamilton - 109 points
3. Fernando Alonso - 102 points
4. Felipe Massa - 90 points

In this championship Alonso never really closes the gap Hamilton creates in the middle of the season, and Lewis has a much more commanding lead than in the reality. At the same time, however, Raikkonen moves into the runner-up spot as early as the Japanese Grand Prix, being that he was the only one of the top four to benefit from this changed result. He would have been far less "under the radar", and it would have been far more focused on Raikkonen against Hamilton rather than the intra-McLaren rivalry.

Winkelhock would move up to 16th in the championship with 5 points, with the only other major changes being Mark Webber losing out and dropping to 13th place, and well, yeah. Under that finish most of the usual suspects are still there or thereabouts. Red Bull would lose a huge chunk of points (going from 10 to 4.5 in the result), whilst Spyker would finish 8th in the championship on 6 points, same as Honda.

I personally don't think a Hamilton-Raikkonen rivalry would have been as interesting as the one we ended up with, but I think everyone would have loved Winkelhock to have won the race. Would have been one of the shock results in Formula 1.

It always bugged me how Lewis got help to get back on track

Posted: **23 Jul 2015, 16:15**

Aguaman wrote:It always bugged me how Lewis got help to get back on track

One rule for some, one for others, I guess. Someone asked a week or so back why people don't like Lewis Hamilton, and I'm remembering the post-race interview of that very race in 2007, where after getting lifted back onto the track for no reason other than being Lewis Hamilton, taking a gamble to go out on different (the wrong) tyres, benefiting from a bunched-up grid after the red flags and safety cars, and still not finishing in the points, he walks up to the ITV press with a massive grin saying how it's a "new experience" that he's not on the podium for once. I couldn't have been the only one in the audience wanting to punch the guy.

Posted: **24 Jul 2015, 07:24**

AxelP800 wrote:I'm sure I never asked this here.

What if 2007 European/German GP was red-flagged permanently on that point which was Markus Winkelhock on the lead? What if Winkelhock's gamble on restart works again for 2nd time? What if Winkelhock really won that race?

What if the race had never been black-flagged?

After all, people were going off at the first corner because they weren't on the proper (full wet) tyres for the conditions. And he was leading by over half a minute after three laps, which would have only increased a lot more, whether the guys behind stayed on intermediates or had they pitted for wets.

All in all, we would be looking at a lead of at least a minute after five or six laps. He wouldn't have won the race -the Spyker was that bad- but how high could he have finished? Or, would he have dropped out of the race (he retired in real life) from, let's say, a 4th place 15 laps from the end?

Posted: **25 Jul 2015, 09:34**

Rob Dylan wrote:
Aguaman wrote:It always bugged me how Lewis got help to get back on track

One rule for some, one for others, I guess. Someone asked a week or so back why people don't like Lewis Hamilton, and I'm remembering the post-race interview of that very race in 2007, where after getting lifted back onto the track for no reason other than being Lewis Hamilton, taking a gamble to go out on different (the wrong) tyres, benefiting from a bunched-up grid after the red flags and safety cars, and still not finishing in the points, he walks up to the ITV press with a massive grin saying how it's a "new experience" that he's not on the podium for once. I couldn't have been the only one in the audience wanting to punch the guy.

I think that part of the reason why that happened was that the circumstances in which Hamilton slid off into the gravel trap created a situation that had not been seen before.

Because Mercedes had recently created a new engine map which allowed the car to sit idling for an extended period of time without overheating, Hamilton was able to sit in the car for an extended period of time when the other drivers were abandoning their vehicles.

As it was, it was the first time that a driver could sit for long enough in the car for a crane to lift the car onto the track, and Hamilton was the first driver to realise that he could take advantage of that situation. The regulations did - and currently still do - permit a car to rejoin the race if they receive external assistance, so long as the car is being removed from a dangerous position.

At the time, everybody assumed that this meant that the car would be pushed by hand, as was the case with Schumacher in 2003, rather than using mechanical assistance - but, strictly speaking, the regulations did not prevent mechanical assistance at the time.

Posted: **25 Jul 2015, 10:55**

Ferrim wrote:
AxelP800 wrote:I'm sure I never asked this here.

What if 2007 European/German GP was red-flagged permanently on that point which was Markus Winkelhock on the lead? What if Winkelhock's gamble on restart works again for 2nd time? What if Winkelhock really won that race?

What if the race had never been black-flagged?

After all, people were going off at the first corner because they weren't on the proper (full wet) tyres for the conditions. And he was leading by over half a minute after three laps, which would have only increased a lot more, whether the guys behind stayed on intermediates or had they pitted for wets.

All in all, we would be looking at a lead of at least a minute after five or six laps. He wouldn't have won the race -the Spyker was that bad- but how high could he have finished? Or, would he have dropped out of the race (he retired in real life) from, let's say, a 4th place 15 laps from the end?

I think not red-flagging is pointless argument because I can't think that mess could have been sorted with local yellows and Winkelhock would have lost his lead due to safety car anyway.

Posted: **27 Jul 2015, 12:15**

What if Niki Lauda didn't come out of retirement to join McLaren in 1982, and focused on his aviation interests with no further involvement in motorsport?

Posted: **27 Jul 2015, 12:45**

More_Blue_Flags wrote:What if Niki Lauda didn't come out of retirement to join McLaren in 1982, and focused on his aviation interests with no further involvement in motorsport?

Alain Prost would be a 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time World Champion and he'd still be overlooked when people debate who the all time greatest is. I can't imagine much else changing except other drivers pick up more wins.

Posted: **27 Jul 2015, 14:52**

FullMetalJack wrote:
More_Blue_Flags wrote:What if Niki Lauda didn't come out of retirement to join McLaren in 1982, and focused on his aviation interests with no further involvement in motorsport?

Alain Prost would be a 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time World Champion and he'd still be overlooked when people debate who the all time greatest is. I can't imagine much else changing except other drivers pick up more wins.

Agreed but I wonder who ultimately would have gotten the McLaren drive alongside Watson (I doubt de Cesaris would have been retained either way). Could have disproportionately boosted someone's career over and above Lauda's comeback wins being distributed amongst his rivals. For instance say if Alan Jones had not retired at the end of '81, he probably takes a few more wins from some drivers, but Rosberg in particular may have never gotten his break.

Posted: **27 Jul 2015, 21:53**

MorbidelliObese wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:
More_Blue_Flags wrote:What if Niki Lauda didn't come out of retirement to join McLaren in 1982, and focused on his aviation interests with no further involvement in motorsport?

Alain Prost would be a 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time World Champion and he'd still be overlooked when people debate who the all time greatest is. I can't imagine much else changing except other drivers pick up more wins.

Agreed but I wonder who ultimately would have gotten the McLaren drive alongside Watson (I doubt de Cesaris would have been retained either way). Could have disproportionately boosted someone's career over and above Lauda's comeback wins being distributed amongst his rivals. For instance say if Alan Jones had not retired at the end of '81, he probably takes a few more wins from some drivers, but Rosberg in particular may have never gotten his break.

McLaren wouldn't have held on to de Cesaris, unless he was the only other option to keep Marlboro sponsorship. If not, then I wonder if Patrick Tambay would have returned to the team? I don't know how his relations with McLaren were after '78 and '79...

Of course, this opens up the question of who would then replace Villeneuve after his death. Butterfly effect, and whatnot.

Posted: **30 Jul 2015, 06:50**

Ataxia wrote:

I like you too.

Posted: **11 Aug 2015, 14:50**

This is a pretty huge one, huge enough to possibly write a book about, but what if Enzo Ferrari succumbed to the Spanish Flu in 1918?

Posted: **11 Aug 2015, 15:57**

Simtek wrote:This is a pretty huge one, huge enough to possibly write a book about, but what if Enzo Ferrari succumbed to the Spanish Flu in 1918?

Could Ferrari's role (the brand, not the person) be more or less replaced by Alfa Romeo, Maserati or Lancia, perhaps? I think one of those could have grown out to become what Ferrari became.

Posted: **11 Aug 2015, 20:11**

tBone wrote:
Simtek wrote:This is a pretty huge one, huge enough to possibly write a book about, but what if Enzo Ferrari succumbed to the Spanish Flu in 1918?

Could Ferrari's role (the brand, not the person) be more or less replaced by Alfa Romeo, Maserati or Lancia, perhaps? I think one of those could have grown out to become what Ferrari became.

Given Alfa's role in the early years of F1 (the early 1950s, as if I needed to spell it out!), and how Ferrari initially ran Alfas prior to building his own cars, Alfa Romeo were best placed to take up the legendary role/aura that Ferrari has subsequently obtained and used to its own ends.

Posted: **11 Aug 2015, 20:58**

dr-baker wrote:
tBone wrote:
Simtek wrote:This is a pretty huge one, huge enough to possibly write a book about, but what if Enzo Ferrari succumbed to the Spanish Flu in 1918?

Could Ferrari's role (the brand, not the person) be more or less replaced by Alfa Romeo, Maserati or Lancia, perhaps? I think one of those could have grown out to become what Ferrari became.

Given Alfa's role in the early years of F1 (the early 1950s, as if I needed to spell it out!), and how Ferrari initially ran Alfas prior to building his own cars, Alfa Romeo were best placed to take up the legendary role/aura that Ferrari has subsequently obtained and used to its own ends.

That's indeed what I thought too. Of course, Ferrari didn't really build his own car for 1956, using the Lancia D50 instead after the Scuderia Lancia assets became his. Maybe another "what if" comes up here: what if Scuderia Lancia would have continued on their own? Or, who would have gotten the D50 if it wasn't Ferrari?

To continue on this one (and go slightly off-topic I'm afraid), did a lot of Alfa Romeo engineers end up at Ferrari after Enzo started running his own cars? Is there any information on that, or any key figures named? A quick google session didn't provide results.

Posted: **11 Aug 2015, 21:33**

tBone wrote:Or, who would have gotten the D50 if it wasn't Ferrari?

Split between Ecurie Maghreb and the Irish Racing Association, of course

*Slightly inaccurate ASMF reference

To answer the question about Alfa engineers at Ferrari, Scuderia Ferrari was the Alfa Romeo works team when it started out in 1929, so there would have been many employees of Ferrari being employees of Alfa Romeo as well. The partnership was eventually dissolved in 1938. Due to a contractual agreement, Ferrari was unable to restart his team for another four years. Fast forward to the post-war period and Enzo re-established his famous team with some of his former Alfa colleagues. Gioacchino Colombo for example, who designed the Alfa Romeo 158 engine (way back in 1937!), designed some of Ferrari's first engines, before returning to Alfa Romeo in 1950 for their brief but successful two years, and later designed the famous Maserati 250F and the failed Bugatti 251 project.

Posted: **12 Aug 2015, 12:59**

dr-baker wrote:
tBone wrote:
Simtek wrote:This is a pretty huge one, huge enough to possibly write a book about, but what if Enzo Ferrari succumbed to the Spanish Flu in 1918?

Could Ferrari's role (the brand, not the person) be more or less replaced by Alfa Romeo, Maserati or Lancia, perhaps? I think one of those could have grown out to become what Ferrari became.

Given Alfa's role in the early years of F1 (the early 1950s, as if I needed to spell it out!), and how Ferrari initially ran Alfas prior to building his own cars, Alfa Romeo were best placed to take up the legendary role/aura that Ferrari has subsequently obtained and used to its own ends.

Realistically, I think that none of those parties would have been able to take over the role that Ferrari did - in the case of Alfa Romeo, part of the reason they dropped racing was because the Italian government refused to provide Alfa Romeo with state funding to support them whilst they were still spending on motorsport.

Similarly, Lancia was also struggling quite heavily in the post war era - part of the reason why Lancia gave the D50, plus 50 million lire, to Ferrari was because that was far cheaper than trying to compete in F1 - and Maserati eventually had to leave the sport even though they enjoyed a considerable amount of success with the 250F. Furthermore, the head of Lancia was quite traumatised by the death of Ascari in a testing accident - he was a close personal friend of his - so the decision was as much about the destruction of his enthusiasm for the sport as much for any financial reason.

In all of those instances, therefore, I would expect that they would not have filled the void that Ferrari might have left at the time - I'm not sure who might have had the finances and determination to take his place, because none of the post war Italian companies could manage to do so.

Even in Ferrari's case, there were a few instances where the company came close to collapsing in its early years. Forghieri noted in his memoirs that Ferrari was only able to survive those early years because Enzo had carefully built up an industrial manufacturing division - I believe that they specialised in manufacturing oil tanks and mechanical pumps for industrial and marine applications - that was quite successful and was able to subsidise the racing team, which Enzo eventually sold off in the long term when the racing team was on a more stable financial footing.

Simtek wrote:
tBone wrote:Or, who would have gotten the D50 if it wasn't Ferrari?

Split between Ecurie Maghreb and the Irish Racing Association, of course *Slightly inaccurate ASMF reference

To answer the question about Alfa engineers at Ferrari, Scuderia Ferrari was the Alfa Romeo works team when it started out in 1929, so there would have been many employees of Ferrari being employees of Alfa Romeo as well. The partnership was eventually dissolved in 1938. Due to a contractual agreement, Ferrari was unable to restart his team for another four years. Fast forward to the post-war period and Enzo re-established his famous team with some of his former Alfa colleagues. Gioacchino Colombo for example, who designed the Alfa Romeo 158 engine (way back in 1937!), designed some of Ferrari's first engines, before returning to Alfa Romeo in 1950 for their brief but successful two years, and later designed the famous Maserati 250F and the failed Bugatti 251 project.

Vittorio Jano was another notable name who went from Alfa Romeo to Ferrari, via Lancia in his case (he moved across to Ferrari when they transferred the D50 over to them) - as you say, there were a number of individuals who did drift from Alfa Romeo over to Ferrari in the 1950's, particularly after Alfa Romeo backed out of F1, due to the old connections between Enzo and Alfa Romeo.

Posted: **12 Aug 2015, 14:26**

What if Rosberg won the championship and not Lewis last season? How would Lewis and Nico be looked at it? But just to add that the assumption that Vettel won in 2011-2013 and Webber won in 2010.

Posted: **12 Aug 2015, 15:51**

Aguaman wrote:What if Rosberg won the championship and not Lewis last season? How would Lewis and Nico be looked at it? But just to add that the assumption that Vettel won in 2011-2013 and Webber won in 2010.

I imagine Webber would have been much more competitive in 2011, and at least picked up more wins than the McLaren duo each managed.

From a personal perspective, I would have jumped in the air in celebration.

Posted: **12 Aug 2015, 18:06**

FullMetalJack wrote:
Aguaman wrote:What if Rosberg won the championship and not Lewis last season? How would Lewis and Nico be looked at it? But just to add that the assumption that Vettel won in 2011-2013 and Webber won in 2010.

I imagine Webber would have been much more competitive in 2011, and at least picked up more wins than the McLaren duo each managed.

From a personal perspective, I would have jumped in the air in celebration.

I think that, if Webber took the title, it would probably have had just as much of an impact on how he viewed himself as much as how others viewed him. It does seem to be the case that, after losing out in 2010, he never quite managed to recapture the form he showed, and I do think that part of that was a loss of motivation caused by losing out on the title that year.

Equally, it would probably have put Red Bull under greater pressure to support and encourage Webber rather than Vettel - and I would wager that Webber would have been quite willing to use that leverage in the press too - so I would agree that Webber might have enjoyed more success in 2011 as a result of that. Red Bull, equally, might have remained as a popular team for a longer period of time too - a title for Webber would probably have been very popular, whilst it might have delayed the onset of the somewhat poisonous attitude that the team developed in later years which, in turn, seems to have had a negative influence on Vettel.

However, in the longer term I think that the impact would have tailed off given that Webber never really adjusted to the handling characteristics of the later exhaust blown cars in the way that Vettel did, so I expect that his competitiveness would have trailed off and Vettel would have probably still taken titles from 2011 to 2013.

As for Rosberg, whilst I think that winning the title in 2014 might have afforded him more respect, at the same time I think that there might have been a slight sense of dissatisfaction given the points situation coming up to Abu Dhabi - the difference in points would probably have required Hamilton to have been the one who suffered from reliability issues, and few really like to see a title decided in such a matter.

He would probably have been held in higher regard at the start of this season whilst the lustre of his WDC held, but I think that, given that Hamilton has been the more competitive driver over the majority of the races this season, I think that his reputation would probably have normalised to close to where it is now.

Posted: **12 Aug 2015, 23:01**

I don't think I'm out of line speaking for other people here, but I think most of us understood that Mark's 2010 campaign was the only shot he was ever going to get at winning a title. Winning it would have allowed him to prove himself against Red Bull's support for Sebastian, and no doubt would have boosted him in his final years. When he was beaten to the title, it was pretty clear there wasn't going to be a 2011 campaign. If he had won it I can see 2011 being difficult for him anyway, but I reckon he could have given Sebastian a run for his money in 2012 after getting an early-season advantage.

I can see Vettel being a little humbled having to wait another year for his first title in 2011. Having to compete against a stronger Webber would have knocked points off of his subsequent seasons, and as a result I can see Alonso winning the 2012 season against a weaker Vettel. So it would look like:

2010 - Webber
2011 - Vettel
2012 - Alonso (3)
2013 - Vettel (2)

Posted: **13 Aug 2015, 01:20**

I disagree with Vettel being weaker. I think he would have been more pissed off and tried to win that thing. Vettel is way too calculated and strong to just take being beaten to a WDC by a teammate.

Webber would be rated higher above Button because to win a WDC against 4 other strong drivers inclusive of Button would be a major feat.

Posted: **13 Aug 2015, 01:32**

After reading Webber's autobiography I personally think even if he'd won 3 titles in a row the team still would have backed Vettel. Dr Marko's influence got so strong that no matter what happened they were always going to prefer Seb.

Of course, you could argue that Marko's influence only grew as a result of Vettel's on-track success.

Posted: **14 Aug 2015, 15:27**

AustralianStig wrote:After reading Webber's autobiography I personally think even if he'd won 3 titles in a row the team still would have backed Vettel. Dr Marko's influence got so strong that no matter what happened they were always going to prefer Seb.

Of course, you could argue that Marko's influence only grew as a result of Vettel's on-track success.

Oh wow I didn't know he had a book out. That's something for the birthday wish-list.

Posted: **17 Aug 2015, 00:14**

1. What if F1 raced at a full-out oval?

2. What if the Indianapolis 500 once again was a full race of the World Championship? Would the teams attend it?

3. What if Ford bought Ferrari in 1968-1969? Would Ferrari use DFV engines?

4. What if Tyrrell's deal to get Renault Turbos in 1977 didn't fall apart?

5. What if Tyrrell didn't get Renault turbos in 1985? Do they use Hart or "Motori Moderni" turbo engines or stick with the DFY?

6. What if Yuji Ide had actual F1 talent and didn't cause said mayhem?

Posted: **17 Aug 2015, 09:49**

Whiteshore wrote:2. What if the Indianapolis 500 once again was a full race of the World Championship? Would the teams attend it?

With the Indy 500 often being on the same weekend as the Monaco Grand Prix, it would at present be a logistical impossibility. The first step would be to ensure that no Grand Prix was scheduled for the two to three weeks that Indianapolis runs over. What's more, the teams would have to become familiar with new chassis (the DW12), plus agreements over engine supplies (would Ferrari and Mercedes build an Indy-spec engine for themselves and others to use? I cannot see them going for Chevys or Hondas, although independent teams like Red Bull, Force India, etc. could, contracts permitting. And obviously McLaren would be a Honda team).

I would like to see it, but currently it would be far too much of a logistical problem. If the teams still had their separate test teams, it might have made life a little easier.

Interestingly, in the 1950s, it was very rare for anybody from F1 to make the trip, even though it was a championship round. But in the 1960s, there were many more drivers having attempts, plus Lotus but few other teams taking part. So I doubt any teams would ever do it.

Posted: **17 Aug 2015, 11:18**

What if Paul Di Resta never went to F1?

Posted: **17 Aug 2015, 11:32**

Aguaman wrote:What if Paul Di Resta never went to F1?

I think he'd end up like Robert Wickens or Daniel Juncadella - a driver who did very well in single seaters only to end up in a dead-end drive in the DTM. We would be spared the ridiculous over-hyping from the BBC and instead be asking what might have been, without knowing how average he would actually turn out to be. The "he beat Vettel in F3" argument would probably be used more in getting an idea of how he might have fared at the top level. Those parallel universe sods have no idea...

Posted: **17 Aug 2015, 22:04**

Whiteshore wrote:1. What if F1 raced at a full-out oval?

They did, at Monza in the 1950s

OK, I know that's not what you meant...

Um, there would be some much-needed diversity on the calendar, I guess? There would hopefully be less people saying "oval racing sux bcuz its jus turning left 400 timez!". Yes, in the same way motor racing itself is just driving around in circles... Yeah, I'm rambling. We'd be seeing more specialised aero kits for oval races, which could only mean an increase in costs, which reduces the already low chances of that happening

Whiteshore wrote:2. What if the Indianapolis 500 once again was a full race of the World Championship? Would the teams attend it?

dr-baker pretty much covered this. The unique way the race is structured would cause problems with race dates. The technical regulations are also very different and it's really not worth the investment on the part of any F1 teams to go over and give it a shot. Basically, it would result in the same problems it would have caused in the 1950s.

Whiteshore wrote:3. What if Ford bought Ferrari in 1968-1969? Would Ferrari use DFV engines?

1963 was when Henry Ford II attempted to buy Ferrari. One of the conditions of the deal was that Ferrari would not be allowed to race in the Indy 500 because Ford didn't want any competition at home. Ferrari, despite the fact that he was not going to race at Indy anyway, did not like this in the slightest so he refused, he didn't like to be told what to do when it came to the interests of the Scuderia. In fact, one of the conditions of his selling half of the company to Fiat was that he would remain in complete control of the racing division. I would imagine that if he were to somehow make a similar agreement with Ford then it would happen under the same condition. I doubt he would be happy using their (well, Cosworth's) engine, preferring an engine built in Maranello instead. The Old Man was a stubborn one.

Whiteshore wrote:4. What if Tyrrell's deal to get Renault Turbos in 1977 didn't fall apart?

Then it would be a real test of Ken's patience. I think the reason it fell apart in the first place was because he correctly predicted that the engine would simply not be reliable enough. If he decided to give them a whirl, then I suppose Tyrrell would take the historical place of Renault in that period. Although now I do wonder how it would have affected the FISA-FOCA war with one less factory team.

Whiteshore wrote:5. What if Tyrrell didn't get Renault turbos in 1985? Do they use Hart or "Motori Moderni" turbo engines or stick with the DFY?

I don't know about 1985, but they would not have been able to use the DFY in 1986 due to the ban on naturally aspirated engines. I'm quite sure they were after any deal that would give them turbos to remain competitive. Toleman fared well with the Hart in 1984 so I suppose that might have been a good option as opposed to the extremely unreliable Motori Moderni.

Whiteshore wrote:6. What if Yuji Ide had actual F1 talent and didn't cause said mayhem?

There would still be the problem of him being unable to speak English, the majority language of the F1 world

So he would need an interpreter. Anyway, it would be hard for talent to shine through in the 2006 Arrows Minardi Super Aguri, but assuming he was kept on for 2007 and was at least as good as Sato, then Canada 2007 would have been that much better

Posted: **18 Aug 2015, 00:24**

Maybe if they don't get Renault turbos they purchase Spirit's engine contract when it folded like how Toleman purchased it's tyre contract?

Posted: **20 Aug 2015, 01:54**

1. What if Danica Patrick somehow made it to Formula 1 in say 2004-2005?
2. What if the Life W12 was the most powerful engine in the grid? Could it have found a customer?
3. What if Minardi had Supertec engines in 2001? Could they have been on the same level as say Prost or Benetton?
4. What if Mark Webber went to IndyCar instead of Le Mans?
5. What if Toyota and BMW didn't fully pull out of F1 and merely downgraded to engine suppliers for Williams and Sauber respectably?

Grand Prix Rejects

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