Rantbox

[go_Rubens]

Who made the wheel tethers in late 90s and early 00s F1 cars? They didn't seem to work half the time.

[dinizintheoven]

Who made the wheel tethers in late 90s and early 00s F1 cars? They didn't seem to work half the time.

75p and a packet of Rolos says it was MFI.

(Nobody outside the Tin Islands will get that.)

[FullMetalJack]

Who made the wheel tethers in late 90s and early 00s F1 cars? They didn't seem to work half the time.

75p and a packet of Rolos says it was MFI.

(Nobody outside the Tin Islands will get that.)

Isn't MFI that furniture shop? Is it even still around?

[dinizintheoven]

Yes and (fortunately) no, in that order.

[CoopsII]

When I were a lad we managed just fine with a slightly shortened race calendar and, therefore, no mid-season break.

[go_Rubens]

When I were a lad we managed just fine with a slightly shortened race calendar and, therefore, no mid-season break.

What?!

[Salamander]

When I were a lad we managed just fine with a slightly shortened race calendar and, therefore, no mid-season break.

What?!

You mean you don't know of the times when F1 got along just fine with a 15/16 race calendar?

[FullMetalJack]

When I were a lad we managed just fine with a slightly shortened race calendar and, therefore, no mid-season break.

What?!

You mean you don't know of the times when F1 got along just fine with a 15/16 race calendar?

I don't remember that time too well, although i'd have been fine, as at least in the winter months there'd be football for me.

The smallest race calendar in my time of watching is 17 races.

[Salamander]

You mean you don't know of the times when F1 got along just fine with a 15/16 race calendar?

I don't remember that time too well, although i'd have been fine, as at least in the winter months there'd be football for me.

The smallest race calendar in my time of watching is 17 races.

Yeah, same here, but I do know calendars used to be quite a bit smaller 25 years ago.

[Ataxia]

You mean you don't know of the times when F1 got along just fine with a 15/16 race calendar?

I don't remember that time too well, although i'd have been fine, as at least in the winter months there'd be football for me.

The smallest race calendar in my time of watching is 17 races.

Yeah, same here, but I do know calendars used to be quite a bit smaller 25 years ago.

Well, I've had the ol' 16-race treatment having picked up F1 around 1997/98...unfortunately, as a 3/4 year old at the time I have very little memory of them. As you'd expect, I guess.

[takagi_for_the_win]

Since I started watching F1, there have been only 2 16-race calenders as far as I know (1998 and 2003) and given that I had just turned 2 when the '98 season ended, I can't really remember much of it...

[Londoner]

I can just about remember the days of 16/17 race calendars, as my earliest F1 memories are from 1999-2001, when I was about 4 years old.

And of course, lest we forget, the 2009 season saw a return to a 17 race calendar...

[FullMetalJack]

I didn't realise that I didn't start following Formula 1 until a much later age. I was 11 when I started following it.

[CoopsII]

Obviously I dont really have a problem with the mahoosive race calendars we have nowadays per se but the old adage 'quality not quantity' is often at the forefront of my thoughts when I actually look at where F1 goes. Ive no doubt many will disagree with me, and fair play to you, but I think the impetus of expanding into new territories has overtaken the need for good racing tracks.

[WeirdKerr]

1995 was the first year with 17 races

[good_Ralf]

1995 was the first year with 17 races

Strange as it may be, but it was 1977.

[Ataxia]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

[Shadaza]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

I would disagree with the Singapore nomination, the atmosphere there seems great, the night racing and bumps make the cars look superb and an on the limit lap looks absolutely incredible.

I love the place. Abu Dhabi at least has great facilities and a sort of atmosphere, the rest though, bleh you are right.

[watka]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

I think 20 races is too many. Definitely a lot of races over the last few seasons that I have very little recollection of.

[go_Rubens]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

I think 20 races is too many. Definitely a lot of races over the last few seasons that I have very little recollection of.

Quality over quantity. Or both in one, which the FIA or Tilke have no idea how to achieve

[SgtPepper]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

I think 20 races is too many. Definitely a lot of races over the last few seasons that I have very little recollection of.

Quality over quantity. Or both in one, which the FIA or Tilke have no idea how to achieve

I actually quite like having such a quantity of races, but this Tilke dominance is starting to get silly. Maybe 2-3 Tilke tracks at most in a calendar would be acceptable.

I actually don't mind Abu Dhabi as much as most people - it's China and Malaysia, Korea and India I find particularly offensive in terms of repetitiveness/width of track/immense run off area/never ending corners/motorway highway DRS passes/suiting Adrian-sodding-Newey-cars blandness.

[kevinbotz]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

[SgtPepper]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Yes yes he did his job very well, but it's been almost 4 years of one team dominating at this point because it is the team, and not the driver by the way and it's starting to get wearisome.

[go_Rubens]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Yes yes he did his job very well, but it's been almost 4 years of one team dominating at this point because it is the team, and not the driver by the way and it's starting to get wearisome.

Time for Ferrari to somehow get Rory Byrne back

[Ataxia]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Yes yes he did his job very well, but it's been almost 4 years of one team dominating at this point because it is the team, and not the driver by the way and it's starting to get wearisome.

Time for Ferrari to somehow get Rory Byrne back

They're way ahead of you...he's working on the 2014 Ferrari.

[kevinbotz]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Yes yes he did his job very well, but it's been almost 4 years of one team dominating at this point because it is the team, and not the driver by the way and it's starting to get wearisome.

Well, following that line of reasoning, we may as well retrospectively condemn Colin Chapman, the duo of Gordon Murray and Steve Nichols, Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, Ross Brawn, and indeed any other Formula One technical staff responsible for building a dominant car during a particular era.

So what would you like Newey to do then? Deliberately take off downforce on his cars so as to level the playing field? Run the RB9s on leaf springs and solid rear axles? Replace the Renault V8 with that of a 1970s Ford Mustang?

[go_Rubens]

They're way ahead of you...he's working on the 2014 Ferrari.

Oh. Well, ever since 2005 I haven't heard of his name

[Salamander]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Yes yes he did his job very well, but it's been almost 4 years of one team dominating at this point because it is the team, and not the driver by the way and it's starting to get wearisome.

Well, following that line of reasoning, we may as well retrospectively condemn Colin Chapman, the duo of Gordon Murray and Steve Nichols, Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, Ross Brawn, and indeed any other Formula One technical staff responsible for building a dominant car during a particular era.

So what would you like Newey to do then? Deliberately take off downforce on his cars so as to level the playing field? Run the RB9s on leaf springs and solid rear axles? Replace the Renault V8 with that of a 1970s Ford Mustang?

This. You don't have to like Red Bull's domination of recent years, but the team and everyone on it, not just Adrian Newey, are all doing their jobs, and very well at that. If you're going to fault anyone, fault Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, and Mercedes for not coming up with an answer to Red Bull for 4 years now.

[dinizintheoven]

So what would you like Newey to do then? Deliberately take off downforce on his cars so as to level the playing field? Run the RB9s on leaf springs and solid rear axles? Replace the Renault V8 with that of a 1970s Ford Mustang?

And don't y'all forget to paint a huge cross where that dang Red Bull logo is there. Then that's what I call a good-ole'-boys' proper 'Merican Formula-One-Registered-Trade-Mark car! Build it for me and I WILL BE WORLD CHAMPION, Y'ALL HEAR ME? Yeeeeeee-haaaaaaw! *fires guns* *plays banjo*

[SgtPepper]

Adrian-sodding-Newey. I like that. Because it's obviously Newey's fault that he did his job by making sure his cars adapted to the technical demands of modern F1 better than anybody else's.

Fault Tilke for vapid and uninspired tracks. Fault the FIA for technical oversight. Fault the FOM for its avarice at the expense of the integrity of the sport itself. There are plenty of actors culpable for, what some people perceive anyways, the mediocre racing today, more than plenty enough before anyone should begin castigating Adrian Newey for doing his job.

Well, following that line of reasoning, we may as well retrospectively condemn Colin Chapman, the duo of Gordon Murray and Steve Nichols, Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, Ross Brawn, and indeed any other Formula One technical staff responsible for building a dominant car during a particular era.

So what would you like Newey to do then? Deliberately take off downforce on his cars so as to level the playing field? Run the RB9s on leaf springs and solid rear axles? Replace the Renault V8 with that of a 1970s Ford Mustang?

This. You don't have to like Red Bull's domination of recent years, but the team and everyone on it, not just Adrian Newey, are all doing their jobs, and very well at that. If you're going to fault anyone, fault Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, and Mercedes for not coming up with an answer to Red Bull for 4 years now.

I know I agree with you both, and I reluctantly admit that clearly RB have been doing a far superior job to the other teams. I suppose what exasperates me is not understanding why it is the others can't catch up, and watching a sport I love become a forgone conclusion.

Ok I've been pondering, and how about this for a championship? Over the winter, all the teams try to build the fastest car they can, competing in three tiers ('divisions' if you like, i.e RB vs Merc, FI vs Toro Rosso, Caterham vs Marussia). These cars are then tested by an independent driver, and whoever has the fastest car wins the constructor's championship, and thereby the winnings, before the season begins. Then the 'top tier' teams all then buy the chassis of the fastest car, and same for the other two tiers, so there are three tiers using the same car fitting their level, if that makes sense. Although each team can develop these cars further over the course of the year in the way they want, it means no team is immediately starting with the default fastest car - therefore bringing back not only some of the importance of driver input and skill, but not entirely eradicating the importance of car development over the course of the season either. The teams also have the added incentive to make the best car they can as they can gain extra income/pride through having the car the other teams have to purchase, and therefore will be less inclined merely to sandbag and preserve potential ideas for updates on another team's car etc.

Also, one lap qualifying is brought back for Q1 and maybe Q2 to shake up the grid more so that the actual racing is not entirely dictated by the tier system, but we retain the shoot-out format for the front rows as well. Towards the end of the season the tiers are decided by the position in the constructor's championship, thus making this (often quite ignored) championship far more relevant and important. If a team in division two then beats one in division one, they then take that place and the other is 'relegated' (I'm using what little football terminology I am aware of to try clarify).

I don't believe domination of any one manufacturer in F1 is anything but bad for the sport, no matter how much I might respect any of those designers you've mentioned (and trust me, I do immensely). If Adrian Newey can design a car a second quicker than the majority of the field, by all means let him and I shall lay on the relevant admiration and respect - but then let the top 8 run with said car and let us have a driver's championship too.

[girry]

SgtPepper,

I have an idea for you that returns your passion for the sport that you love, that worked for me during Schumacher domination years. I absolutely loathed Michael, always celebrated when he retired and hated to see him winning. I would find reasons why his championships are undeserved and most other drivers would beat him in equal equipment. Much like you now seem to do about Vettel.

Then I realized it's silly to downright hate an athlete that drives in F1. So I stopped hating.

I didn't have to start to like him nor even stop cheering for anybody in a position to challenge him...just stop at getting angry and wound up whenever he won.

It helped.

I were 9 years old at that time.

You seem older than that....you can do it too.

---

Ps. I support your idea of the Q1 being done with one lap quali format and then the shootout, maybe with times from both qualifyings combined....would love to see one-lappers again, but I also like the excitement in the current format.

[CoopsII]

I tend to glaze over the races in Singapore, India, Korea and Abu Dhabi...to me, they're just a bit soulless.

Yeah, thats how I feel. They all seem to blend into one, I couldnt pick them out of a line-up so to speak. Its not just because they're the newest I kind of feel the same about Malaysia, even though I know the track quite well these days. And China. And Bahrain. I did however like Indianapolis when we had it and last years Austin race seemed to have plenty of soul. Strange.

[SgtPepper]

Then I realized it's silly to downright hate an athlete that drives in F1. So I stopped hating.

Alas you're right. It's even stranger because I'm normally a very laid back person, but we all have our chagrins I suppose.

Ps. I support your idea of the Q1 being done with one lap quali format and then the shootout, maybe with times from both qualifyings combined....would love to see one-lappers again, but I also like the excitement in the current format.

I think having at least Q1 as one lap qualifying is quite a good hybrid of both the systems, and would be positive on three levels; it would shake up the grid more, give the teams further back some well needed sponsor air-time, and allow people who aren't just interested in the top 3 teams a proper look at how the cars further back the grid are handling.

[Alextrax52]

Then I realized it's silly to downright hate an athlete that drives in F1. So I stopped hating.

Alas you're right. It's even stranger because I'm normally a very laid back person, but we all have our chagrins I suppose.

Ps. I support your idea of the Q1 being done with one lap quali format and then the shootout, maybe with times from both qualifyings combined....would love to see one-lappers again, but I also like the excitement in the current format.

I think having at least Q1 as one lap qualifying is quite a good hybrid of both the systems, and would be positive on three levels; it would shake up the grid more, give the teams further back some well needed sponsor air-time, and allow people who aren't just interested in the top 3 teams a proper look at how the cars further back the grid are handling.

No way Q1 is probably the best part of Qualifying for me. If any session should be changed to a 1 lap shootout it should be Q3 so we don't get cars skipping the session to save tires. Also dump the rule which forces drivers to start on the Tires that they set their fastest lap on because it's pretty pointless.

[SgtPepper]

Then I realized it's silly to downright hate an athlete that drives in F1. So I stopped hating.

Alas you're right. It's even stranger because I'm normally a very laid back person, but we all have our chagrins I suppose.

Ps. I support your idea of the Q1 being done with one lap quali format and then the shootout, maybe with times from both qualifyings combined....would love to see one-lappers again, but I also like the excitement in the current format.

I think having at least Q1 as one lap qualifying is quite a good hybrid of both the systems, and would be positive on three levels; it would shake up the grid more, give the teams further back some well needed sponsor air-time, and allow people who aren't just interested in the top 3 teams a proper look at how the cars further back the grid are handling.

No way Q1 is probably the best part of Qualifying for me. If any session should be changed to a 1 lap shootout it should be Q3 so we don't get cars skipping the session to save tires. Also dump the rule which forces drivers to start on the Tires that they set their fastest lap on because it's pretty pointless.

How come you like Q1 most? And I used to agree with you, but it does actually tend to mix up the racing a bit when you have midfield runners on hard tyres, and the front runners having to try pass them (a la Australia with Sutil IIRC), bunching them up more. Other times, particularly when there are tyre issues it is definitely pointless though, and will penalise the P10 driver and not P11.

[Alextrax52]

Ps. I support your idea of the Q1 being done with one lap quali format and then the shootout, maybe with times from both qualifyings combined....would love to see one-lappers again, but I also like the excitement in the current format.

I think having at least Q1 as one lap qualifying is quite a good hybrid of both the systems, and would be positive on three levels; it would shake up the grid more, give the teams further back some well needed sponsor air-time, and allow people who aren't just interested in the top 3 teams a proper look at how the cars further back the grid are handling.

No way Q1 is probably the best part of Qualifying for me. If any session should be changed to a 1 lap shootout it should be Q3 so we don't get cars skipping the session to save tires. Also dump the rule which forces drivers to start on the Tires that they set their fastest lap on because it's pretty pointless.

How come you like Q1 most? And I used to agree with you, but it does actually tend to mix up the racing a bit when you have midfield runners on hard tyres, and the front runners having to try pass them (a la Australia with Sutil IIRC), bunching them up more. Other times, particularly when there are tyre issues it is definitely pointless though, and will penalise the P10 driver and not P11.[/quote]

Now that HRT are gone there are 2 spaces to be filled alongside Caterham and Marussia. Personally I think Gutierrez is a shoo-in for the drop (No disrespect to him) And if Williams prove that Hungary isn't a fluke then it will be interesting to see whoelse drops because we wouldn't know who is destined to drop out. Look at Di Resta for example last time out in Hungary.

[AdrianSutil]

I prefer Q2. That's the most competitive qualifying session I think. Q3 you'll only have 7/8 drivers really trying whilst youve got 16 in Q2.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Somebody winning one race does not constitute a XXXXXXWINSLOL trend about them


Why do I always bathplug up all my posts

[Ataxia]

Somebody winning one race does not constitute a XXXXXXWINSLOL trend about them

Completely agree on this. There seems to be a select couple of members who do this for every single racing category and every single race. Please, for the love of god, stop piggybacking on somebody else's humour.

[takagi_for_the_win]

Somebody winning one race does not constitute a XXXXXXWINSLOL trend about them

I wholeheartedly agree, unless of course you're on about Stokewinslol in Klon's football series, which is perfectly understandable