What If?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Sep 2015, 11:10

Whiteshore wrote:What if Webber took up IndyCar in 2014? Could the presence of a first-class driver and someone who before leaving F1 was quite competitive boost IndyCar's popularity?

No.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Sep 2015, 16:01

Whiteshore wrote:What if Webber took up IndyCar in 2014? Could the presence of a first-class driver and someone who before leaving F1 was quite competitive boost IndyCar's popularity?

Wondering if he would be more of a Montoya (who had previous American single-seater experience prior to F1) or more of a Barrichello? (Of course, both Montoya and Barrichello are from South America while Webber is not, but still...) i.e. more of a one-year wonder, or with several years and a title challenge in him. Of course Bourdais has continued his career back there again, but like Montoya, has had previous US single-seater experience... I think WEC was the correct choice ultimately.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 26 Sep 2015, 01:35

What if DC won the championship in 1998?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 26 Sep 2015, 01:46

dr-baker wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Webber took up IndyCar in 2014? Could the presence of a first-class driver and someone who before leaving F1 was quite competitive boost IndyCar's popularity?

Wondering if he would be more of a Montoya (who had previous American single-seater experience prior to F1) or more of a Barrichello? (Of course, both Montoya and Barrichello are from South America while Webber is not, but still...) i.e. more of a one-year wonder, or with several years and a title challenge in him. Of course Bourdais has continued his career back there again, but like Montoya, has had previous US single-seater experience... I think WEC was the correct choice ultimately.

Is it possible Webber could be another Mansell or Fittipaldi(an F1 ace who went to Indycars and was a champion there)?

girry · Post by **girry** » 26 Sep 2015, 05:47

Aguaman wrote:What if DC won the championship in 1998?

That would negatively affect our perception of Mika - who generally gets perceived in the context of being someone who could take the fight to Schumi and beat him - whereas DC would be elevated into the same category as Damon Hill as just another "Newey-champ".

re Webber's "potential" indy career, being still relatively popular at the point of retirement he probably would have brought eyeballs along with him, but any greater success than possibly a win or two (had he landed a good team) would have been extremely unlikely in my opinion. Allegedly, at Fittipaldi and Mansell's times it was way easier to get instant success as a newcomer from F1 as there was less competition.

Post by **mario** » 26 Sep 2015, 07:52

Whiteshore wrote:What if the DFV was stillborn? Could a development of the Repco V8 take it's place?

In the short term the Repco V8 would probably have been more widely used as a substitute for the Cosworth DFV, but it would depend heavily on whether Repco could have sorted out the persistent reliability issues that dogged the 32 valve version of that engine. Perhaps, if there had been more customers, Repco may have persisted for longer with the project and may have had enough funding to improve their engine, but that is still very much open to speculation.

The other possible option is that teams might have chosen to go for BRM's V12 engine - McLaren used that engine in 1967 and were reasonably competitive that season, so that is probably another engine which might have been pressed into use in that era.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 27 Sep 2015, 14:18

What if Brian Hart turned out to be the next Keith Duckworth?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 27 Sep 2015, 14:24

Whiteshore wrote:What if Brian Hart turned out to be the next Keith Duckworth?

Too vague.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Sep 2015, 15:06

Whiteshore wrote:What if Brian Hart turned out to be the next Keith Duckworth?

He would've been hired to work on a manufacturer's outfit. That, or teams running Hart engines would've just faired a little bit better - the days of a privateer taking on the big guns were over by the time Hart arrived on the scene.

Izzyeviel · Post by **Izzyeviel** » 27 Sep 2015, 22:40

Whiteshore wrote:What if Brian Hart turned out to be the next Keith Duckworth?

I presume he would've had a similar career to how the guy behind Ilmor turned out. (the one's that's still with us)

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 29 Sep 2015, 13:58

What if Karl Wendlinger died in that Monaco crash(whether instantly or after a Jules Bianchi-esque coma doesn't matter)?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Sep 2015, 15:57

Whiteshore wrote:What if Karl Wendlinger died in that Monaco crash(whether instantly or after a Jules Bianchi-esque coma doesn't matter)?

Well, they were already pushing ahead with a LOT of improving safety rule changes after the events of Imola (the round earlier), so I don't know what else could be different. You may as well have asked what if Montermini's crash in Spain just after that had had a different result... Only change would be who would fill Wendlinger's Sauber seat in 1995, and for that, I don't have an answer at the moment.

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 29 Sep 2015, 17:54

Aguaman wrote:What if DC won the championship in 1998?

Considering what he actually needed to take the crown, he should have been lucky in the early season - meaning no retirement in Canada and a strong performance in Argentina, which would get Schumacher out of the picture as in the first 8 races, he wins just one in France (or none if Coulthard gets reasonably lucky)

That means it would be a battle between DC and Mika which would get pretty close, which would turn the relationship between the two somewhat sourer. Considering DC would have done somewhat better in 1999, I think Eddie Irvine eventually would have benefitted most, while Mika would be out of McLaren in 1999 (maybe replaced by Eddie). Everything else remains the same, although Schumi beats DC with a wider margin in 2000.

And everyone would consider it more of a Newey fluke indeed.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 02 Oct 2015, 19:35

dr-baker wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Karl Wendlinger died in that Monaco crash(whether instantly or after a Jules Bianchi-esque coma doesn't matter)?

Well, they were already pushing ahead with a LOT of improving safety rule changes after the events of Imola (the round earlier), so I don't know what else could be different. You may as well have asked what if Montermini's crash in Spain just after that had had a different result... Only change would be who would fill Wendlinger's Sauber seat in 1995, and for that, I don't have an answer at the moment.

I could well imagine it would have been either Blundell or Brundle.

Scenario 1: Blundell gets around eight points during the season. He gets beaten by Frentzen though and he might have been off to America in 1996 like he was in real-life. It gets more confusing with McLaren though. Magnussen replaces Mansell for first two races which occurred before the DTM season started. He isn't successful but McLaren puts him into the car for Monaco and Canada anyway, while he continues to drive in DTM. After Magnussen was injured in scooter crash at Norisring, Jos Verstappen, now free from Simtek, takes his place and does somewhat better, but not enough so McLaren will be with Häkkinen/Coulthard pairing in 1996.

Scenario 2: Suzuki has a full-time ride with Ligier and gets few points in some places but can't reach 7 points Brundle had. With Sauber, Brundle would have struggled early but improving towards the end and Sauber could have had several two-car point finishes. Brundle continues with the team in 1996 before retiring - Herbert goes to Jordan in 1996.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 02 Oct 2015, 23:34

Whiteshore wrote:What if Karl Wendlinger died in that Monaco crash(whether instantly or after a Jules Bianchi-esque coma doesn't matter)?

1994 season suspended after Monaco Grand Prix for safety reasons or multiple lawsuits. F1 reputation damaged due the lack of safety and Indycar probably had steal some audience from F1. Also, Schumacher probably had been declared the champion, with Berger being the runner up.

Other things, maybe Mansell never had a comeback and some country banning F1 races in a similar way that Switzerland banned any motorsport racing after the tragic events of Le Mans.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 03 Oct 2015, 10:52

What if Adrian Fernandez and Bobby Rahal stayed loyal to Champ Car in 2004?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 03 Oct 2015, 12:50

Whiteshore wrote:What if Adrian Fernandez and Bobby Rahal stayed loyal to Champ Car in 2004?

Absolutely no difference - other than Rahal's team might not even exist today. Champ Car was destined to go down the gutter the moment Ganassi followed Penske to IndyCar.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 05 Oct 2015, 17:51

24th September 2014:

dinizintheoven wrote:This thread's been going so long I've clean forgotten if it's been asked before. But anyway...
How would Caterham or Marussia have fared had they had a Mercedes engine this season? (and so on, you find the rest of the post if you want to read it...)

Is this the first time that one of these "what ifs" will actually be resolved on the track?

Bring it on, Manor Mercedes!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 06 Oct 2015, 03:46

dinizintheoven wrote:24th September 2014:

dinizintheoven wrote:This thread's been going so long I've clean forgotten if it's been asked before. But anyway...
How would Caterham or Marussia have fared had they had a Mercedes engine this season? (and so on, you find the rest of the post if you want to read it...)

Is this the first time that one of these "what ifs" will actually be resolved on the track?

Bring it on, Manor Mercedes!

Well, I'll be the first to try and predict next season for Manor. Firstly, they will be quicker, by around 1.5 seconds per lap which will put them near the back (sort of McLaren pace this year). I know that doesn't sound like much, but the teams aero isn't exactly a world-beater and they'll have two pay-drivers. My drivers? I'll go with Rossi and Vergne! :vergne:

As for potential upsets and points? There will be points (yay!) but no more than 10 unless there's a freak race with about 7 finishers. Usually knocked out in Q1 with the odd appearance in Q2 due to misfortune from others or a particular circuit.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 06 Oct 2015, 11:07

What if Minardi got Supertec engines in 2001? Could Alonso be on the level of Button's Benetton, Alesi's Prost, Pedro de la Rosa's Jaguar, and Verstappen's Arrows?

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 07 Oct 2015, 01:52

What if Barrichello had moved for Mclaren after 1994 season (he said Mclaren offered him a contract, but he refused because the british team didn't make clear if the contract was for a racing seat or for a test driver role) ?

Whiteshore wrote:What if Minardi got Supertec engines in 2001? Could Alonso be on the level of Button's Benetton, Alesi's Prost, Pedro de la Rosa's Jaguar, and Verstappen's Arrows?

I don't think Minardi had a boost in performance with Supertec engines. Maybe one or two better result or no DNQ for Marques and Young, but nothing more and 0 points.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 09 Oct 2015, 14:09

Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Brian Hart turned out to be the next Keith Duckworth?

He would've been hired to work on a manufacturer's outfit. That, or teams running Hart engines would've just faired a little bit better - the days of a privateer taking on the big guns were over by the time Hart arrived on the scene.

Hart Turbo engines were decent for what they were.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 09 Oct 2015, 14:12

CoopsII wrote:What if Irvine had won in 1999?

The universe would have collapsed in on itself.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 11 Oct 2015, 12:37

What if Andrea Moda was properly run? Would it be merely Forti, Simtek, or Pacific-level bad?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Oct 2015, 13:01

Whiteshore wrote:What if Andrea Moda was properly run? Would it be merely Forti, Simtek, or Pacific-level bad?

What if you came up with a "what if?" scenario that actually requires more than 2 seconds of thought to answer?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 11 Oct 2015, 13:03

Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Andrea Moda was properly run? Would it be merely Forti, Simtek, or Pacific-level bad?

What if you came up with a "what if?" scenario that actually requires more than 2 seconds of thought to answer?

He did.

At first anyway...

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 11 Oct 2015, 13:23

What if Ron Dennis didn't take over McLaren?

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 12 Oct 2015, 07:47

1. What if Alonso wins in 2012 with Ferrari?
2. What if Alonso wins in 2016 with McLaren?
3. What if Maldonado wins a championship?
4. What if Hulkenberg never gets a top team and Brundle combusts because of it?
5. What if Paul Di Resta did the Sky commentary with Brundle.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 12 Oct 2015, 12:05

Aguaman wrote:1. What if Alonso wins in 2012 with Ferrari?
2. What if Alonso wins in 2016 with McLaren?
3. What if Maldonado wins a championship?
4. What if Hulkenberg never gets a top team and Brundle combusts because of it?
5. What if Paul Di Resta did the Sky commentary with Brundle.

1. Just have Maldonado crash out of Spain as Vettel gains 2 points and Alonso gains 7 points
2. He is seen as another "Dark Horse" champion
3. IDK
4. He is seen as another Pierluigi Martini.
5. Interesting stuff.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 13 Oct 2015, 01:17

Aguaman wrote:1. What if Alonso wins in 2012 with Ferrari?
2. What if Alonso wins in 2016 with McLaren?
3. What if Maldonado wins a championship?
4. What if Hulkenberg never gets a top team and Brundle combusts because of it?
5. What if Paul Di Resta did the Sky commentary with Brundle.

1. Red Bull still win the constructors', everyone has the same money, nothing changes besides that one year. If what you mean is "does Alonso stay with Ferrari for 2015", then Alonso takes Vettel's place in this year's championship. Vettel stays with Red Bull and he's about equal with Ricciardo; as in reality, his reputation is restored. STR is Kvyat/Verstappen, McLaren keep their drivers. If Vettel goes to McLaren you really can just swap him with Alonso.

Alternatively, the whole Ferrari resurgence thing is because Vettel is just a way better development driver than Alonso. Doesn't seem like that would have an effect after 0 years of racing with them, though. But if so, maybe Red Bull and Ferrari keep their positions as 2nd and 4th best, and there's no challenger to Rosberg for 2nd in the championship? You still have the engines to affect things, though... I don't know.
2. They all look smart and stuff. Nothing too weird would happen.
3. How? In non-F1 terms, I can easily imagine him winning Formula E.
4. Probably sprays himself with a fire extinguisher, similar to what Kovalainen did at Singapore. Exciting new science to be done regarding the connection between anger and one's physical state.
5. Brundle does okay job at main commentating. As the more recent driver, di Resta's former driver comments are occasionally more relevant than what Brundle could provide, but as di Resta, he can't find a way to make it entertaining.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 13 Oct 2015, 18:12

What if Webber went to Ferrari for 2014 instead of Kimi (he mentioned it was on the table for him in his autobiography)? Would he have been joined this year by his beloved former teammate or would he retire after just one year and also would Alonso stay if Webber was his teammate?

And what happens to Kimi - does he stay at Lotus or go somewhere else (Red Bull? McLaren? Retire?)

Post by **mario** » 13 Oct 2015, 18:55

James1978 wrote:What if Webber went to Ferrari for 2014 instead of Kimi (he mentioned it was on the table for him in his autobiography)? Would he have been joined this year by his beloved former teammate or would he retire after just one year and also would Alonso stay if Webber was his teammate?

And what happens to Kimi - does he stay at Lotus or go somewhere else (Red Bull? McLaren? Retire?)

It probably would have been just a one year deal, given that Webber's enthusiasm for F1 was waning at the time - that, coupled with the poor car Ferrari had in 2014, probably would have driven him away from the team. At that point, I expect that Ferrari would probably have looked through the field for an experienced driver to replace him - perhaps somebody like Button, for example (Ferrari reportedly briefly looked at Button's contract around that time too), who would be a solid performer who would be unlikely to cause ructions with Vettel.

As for Kimi, I think that the most likely thing he would have done is to then retire after leaving Lotus - and, in retrospect, it has to be said that, had he retired then, he probably would have left the sport with his reputation being enhanced by his performances at Lotus, rather than being tarnished by his poor performances at Ferrari.

Izzyeviel · Post by **Izzyeviel** » 15 Oct 2015, 00:42

What if Monster had bought Jaguar?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 16 Oct 2015, 10:55

What if Dome made it in 1997?

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 16 Oct 2015, 16:50

Whiteshore wrote:What if Dome made it in 1997?

Marco Apicella likely removes himself from the "who had the shortest GP career?" debate. Maybe Shinji Nakano lands in the other car freeing up that Prost for someone else (not sure who though, Trulli probably still goes to Minardi, maybe one of the slew of French drivers that seemed to be around in F3000 in the mid-90s gets a break).

Longer term, I'd like to think with Dome's experience of building non-spec formula cars that they had, and with a Mugen engine it would perform respectably and give them a platform to become an established outfit, The pessimist in me says they go the way of all other post-1991 new teams not to have a manufacturer* backing them. And in Dome's case possibly bringing down the entire constructor with them as almost happened to Lola

*Then again, maybe they rather than BAR might morph into the works Honda outfit down the road...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 16 Oct 2015, 16:56

Would Webber had stayed in F1 longer if he'd won an F1 title?

I think so.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 Oct 2015, 16:59

CoopsII wrote:Would Webber had stayed in F1 longer if he'd won an F1 title?

I think so.

He would've retired at the end of 2014 in a miserable huff complaining about all the new regulations.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 17 Oct 2015, 06:09

This what if? was inspired by the rather animated discussion on the Russian GP thread as to whether Rosberg actually has the minerals to be a WDC contender.

What if Mercedes in 2011 or 2012 had managed to achieve the relative level of technical superiority and performance over the rest of the field they have this season? Would Rosberg easily have been world champion? How would Schmacher have fared?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 17 Oct 2015, 07:14

More_Blue_Flags wrote:This what if? was inspired by the rather animated discussion on the Russian GP thread as to whether Rosberg actually has the minerals to be a WDC contender.

What if Mercedes in 2011 or 2012 had managed to achieve the relative level of technical superiority and performance over the rest of the field they have this season? Would Rosberg easily have been world champion? How would Schmacher have fared?

Schumacher could have been a 9 time world champion.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 17 Oct 2015, 10:08

Oh man, Schumacher having a genuine fight in 2011 would have been awesome. I'd argue that was the most consistent season he had on his comeback, and in competitive machinery...

Not that I wouldn't want Rosberg to succeed. My opinion is the same of tennis. I'm a Brit, and I don't really have a problem with Andy Murray. But I've cheered on Federer since I was a kid. So if Murray was against Federer, I'd root for Federer, because I've liked him longer. In a title-fighting 2011/2 Mercedes, I'd cheer for Schumacher, not because I dislike Rosberg, but because I've been cheering on Schumacher for far longer