What If?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 19 Oct 2015, 09:56

What if Tony George's bid to purchase CART's assets in 2004 was successful?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 19 Oct 2015, 15:52

Whiteshore wrote:What if Tony George's bid to purchase CART's assets in 2004 was successful?

What do you think?

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 24 Oct 2015, 02:44

Izzyeviel wrote:What if Monster had bought Jaguar?

I think Monster had performed way worse than Red Bull in the first years. I don't believe the team had survived no longer than three years.

The biggest impact of this what if scenario is the possibility of Vettel never be promoted to F1, considering Red Bull and BMW out of F1.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 24 Oct 2015, 11:01

What if Palmer had been promoted to a Lotus seat for this year instead of next year?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 24 Oct 2015, 11:43

Rob Dylan wrote:What if Palmer had been promoted to a Lotus seat for this year instead of next year?

Replacing Grosjean or Maldonado?

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 24 Oct 2015, 14:23

I suppose either scenario would be interesting

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 24 Oct 2015, 18:54

Once we see Palmer next year so we actually know how good he is, we can pretend to answer that.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 28 Oct 2015, 10:27

What if Reynard didn't go bankrupt in 2002?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Oct 2015, 19:42

Whiteshore wrote:What if Reynard didn't go bankrupt in 2002?

You would ask instead "What if Reynard did go bankrupt in 2002?"

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 29 Oct 2015, 12:54

Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Reynard didn't go bankrupt in 2002?

You would ask instead "What if Reynard did go bankrupt in 2002?"

I'm more interested in the effects of Reynard not going bankrupt than you just dismissing that.

Peteroli34 · Post by **Peteroli34** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:58

Back in 2004 Midland brought Jordan but it didnt last. At the time they were linked to buying Jaguar

So whatif Midland brougt Jaguar instead of Red Bull

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 07 Nov 2015, 15:31

peteroli34 wrote:Back in 2004 Midland brought Jordan but it didnt last. At the time they were linked to buying Jaguar

So whatif Midland brougt Jaguar instead of Red Bull

Either Red Bull would have lost any interest in Formula 1 (which would mean the sport would now be in a much worse situation than the current one) or they would have wound up buying Jordan instead, which would mean things would have stayed pretty much the same, with former Jordan becoming a championship-winning team and former Jaguar going down the Midland-Spyker-Force India path.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Nov 2015, 21:52

Whiteshore wrote:
Salamander wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Reynard didn't go bankrupt in 2002?

You would ask instead "What if Reynard did go bankrupt in 2002?"

I'm more interested in the effects of Reynard not going bankrupt than you just dismissing that.

If you actually want answers, you might want to try asking a question that isn't so incredibly open-ended. It's really anyone's guess as to what Reynard would have done - it's not like their long-term business strategy is common knowledge.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 08 Nov 2015, 14:32

Whiteshore-style question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009?

Better question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009? Would FE also have been established as a northern-hemisphere winter series? Would both series have had similar calendars, beginning in September/October in Asia, before going on to the Americas in the New Year, and ending up in Europe in May/June? Would there have been any competition between the series for drivers? Would GP2 Asia series have survived this long if A1GP had also lasted?

My thoughts: There would not be much competition between the series for drivers - A1GP and GP2 Asia seemed to consist mostly of pre-F1 drivers (like Hulkenberg), whereas FE seems to be filled with drivers with well-established careers. Plus, there are not many drivers in FE from the Lebanon, Greece, South Korea or Monaco...

A1GP and FE both seemed to follow similar paths around the world, but this wouldn't have been a problem, as one raced on permanent facilities, and the other on street tracks. Don't know how things would have panned out if GP2 Asia had also survived - three off-season series? Younger drivers seem to enjoy the MRF series in India and the Toyota series in New Zealand to keep up experience levels...

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 09 Nov 2015, 03:20

I just realised Jules Bianchi would have most likely had one of the Haas seats next year, unless a larger team managed to pry him from Ferrari.

Such a shame that we'll never know how well he'd do in a top car.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Nov 2015, 11:34

AustralianStig wrote:I just realised Jules Bianchi would have most likely had one of the Haas seats next year, unless a larger team managed to pry him from Ferrari.

Such a shame that we'll never know how well he'd do in a top car.

Either that, or Ferrari could have failed to have resign Raikkonen, and had Bianchi as number 2 to Vettel instead?

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 09 Nov 2015, 12:31

What if Dean Stoneman hadn't had his cancer scare in 2011? Which F1 team would he be in by now?

My guess: I might have had to say Williams, as they were constructors for the Formula 2 championship, which he won in 2010.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Nov 2015, 12:54

golic_2004 wrote:What if Dean Stoneman hadn't had his cancer scare in 2011? Which F1 team would he be in by now?

My guess: I might have had to say Williams, as they were constructors for the Formula 2 championship, which he won in 2010.

I have just looked at the Formula 2 Wikipedia page, and they list the championship podium for the four seasons when run under Palmer's MSV organisation:

2009
1. Andy Soucek
2. Robert Wickens
3. Mikhail Aleshin

2010
1. Dean Stoneman
2. Jolyon Palmer
3. Sergey Afanasyev

2011
1. Mirko Bortilotti
2. Christopher Zanella
3. Ramon Pineiro

2012
1. Luciano Bacheta
2. Matheo Tuscher
3. Christopher Zanella

So out of those 11 drivers, only one has so far made it all the way to F1, but his debut is not actually until Australia next year, and he is the son of the guy who ran F2! So would Stoneman have made it to F1 by now? Depends how he would have gone in GP2 or FR3.5 in the meantime, as I doubt he would have gone straight from F2 to F1. Maybe a Williams test driver at best in the few years that followed?

As for Williams having been involved in the construction of the cars, I suspect that this was purely a business/commercial decision, and would have had little impact in F1 driver selection. After all, both McLaren and Williams are involved in Formula E, and I don't see Nelson Piquet being signed up by either F1 team any time soon!

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 09 Nov 2015, 13:21

dr-baker wrote:Whiteshore-style question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009?

Better question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009? Would FE also have been established as a northern-hemisphere winter series? Would both series have had similar calendars, beginning in September/October in Asia, before going on to the Americas in the New Year, and ending up in Europe in May/June? Would there have been any competition between the series for drivers? Would GP2 Asia series have survived this long if A1GP had also lasted?

My thoughts: There would not be much competition between the series for drivers - A1GP and GP2 Asia seemed to consist mostly of pre-F1 drivers (like Hulkenberg), whereas FE seems to be filled with drivers with well-established careers. Plus, there are not many drivers in FE from the Lebanon, Greece, South Korea or Monaco... A1GP and FE both seemed to follow similar paths around the world, but this wouldn't have been a problem, as one raced on permanent facilities, and the other on street tracks. Don't know how things would have panned out if GP2 Asia had also survived - three off-season series? Younger drivers seem to enjoy the MRF series in India and the Toyota series in New Zealand to keep up experience levels...

Perhaps a merger of some sort between the 2 series? There is a need for a strong single-seater series, well-promoted and more importantly, non-feeder to F1, a bit like Formula 5000 used to be. Where a driver who, for whatever reason, has not graduated to Formula 1 or no longer has a drive there, can continue to have a career as a professional racing driver. The World Endurance Championship has sort of fulfilled this role for a while, but with the driver grading and the restricted number of factory drives, it's not quite that.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 09 Nov 2015, 13:23

AustralianStig wrote:I just realised Jules Bianchi would have most likely had one of the Haas seats next year, unless a larger team managed to pry him from Ferrari.

Such a shame that we'll never know how well he'd do in a top car.

Wasn't the other, similar discussion that he'd have been driving for Sauber this year - which has gone a hell of a lot better than it did last year despite Marcus Ericsson driving the car that would most likely have been Bianchi's?

Could he have scored more points than Felipe Nasr, who's (somewhat flukily) managed to unrejectify himself in it?

Again, we will never know...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Nov 2015, 16:18

Faustus wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Whiteshore-style question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009?

Better question: What if A1GP did not go bankrupt in 2009? Would FE also have been established as a northern-hemisphere winter series? Would both series have had similar calendars, beginning in September/October in Asia, before going on to the Americas in the New Year, and ending up in Europe in May/June? Would there have been any competition between the series for drivers? Would GP2 Asia series have survived this long if A1GP had also lasted?

My thoughts: There would not be much competition between the series for drivers - A1GP and GP2 Asia seemed to consist mostly of pre-F1 drivers (like Hulkenberg), whereas FE seems to be filled with drivers with well-established careers. Plus, there are not many drivers in FE from the Lebanon, Greece, South Korea or Monaco... A1GP and FE both seemed to follow similar paths around the world, but this wouldn't have been a problem, as one raced on permanent facilities, and the other on street tracks. Don't know how things would have panned out if GP2 Asia had also survived - three off-season series? Younger drivers seem to enjoy the MRF series in India and the Toyota series in New Zealand to keep up experience levels...

Perhaps a merger of some sort between the 2 series? There is a need for a strong single-seater series, well-promoted and more importantly, non-feeder to F1, a bit like Formula 5000 used to be. Where a driver who, for whatever reason, has not graduated to Formula 1 or no longer has a drive there, can continue to have a career as a professional racing driver. The World Endurance Championship has sort of fulfilled this role for a while, but with the driver grading and the restricted number of factory drives, it's not quite that.

You make an interesting point. A1GP did feel like a Winter Series for up-and-coming drivers (Lapierre, Piquet and Hulkenberg as examples all went from race-winning A1GP drives to F1/sportscar drives elsewhere) or for drivers from non-established motorsport cultures (and GP2 Asia felt like a rival series to A1GP, and lasted for about as long), while FE, as you seem to suggest, is turning into a strong single-seater category that is not an F1 feeder. The only other single-seater series to do this currently, I feel, is IndyCar, but that is rather US-centric.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 11 Nov 2015, 17:57

Whiteshore wrote:What if Reynard didn't go bankrupt in 2002?

300 people, including 3 close mates of mine, wouldn't have lost their jobs, consequently flooding the motorsport community with 300 experienced people who (understandably) got all the good jobs that were available in Formula 1 and left me unable to find a job in F1 at the time.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 12 Nov 2015, 12:53

Yeah. IndyCar is the top open-wheel series outside of F1 but that is mainly United States-based with occasional stops in neighboring/nearby countries.

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 17 Nov 2015, 01:09

What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 17 Nov 2015, 01:24

Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

Another impossibly open-ended question. Next.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 17 Nov 2015, 01:26

Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

There is no possible way of objectively answering that question. The closest parallel that I can think of is their 2012 WEC entry, which was a very successful début, but even at that, it's not a reliable model for measuring the performance of a Toyota F1 power unit. As has been pointed out on a number of previous occasions, the question is far too open-ended to give any sort of reliable answer. I do hate to say this, especially as I hate any sort of potential conflict, but I think you need to either start posing "what if" scenarios that can actually be answered with respect to any kind of concrete evidence or to simply stop posting so much in this thread.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 17 Nov 2015, 13:11

Actor James Dean never died from that crash? He was also an aspiring racer and wished to race the Indianapolis 500. Would you imagine him possibly entering an F1 race (likely in America), thus giving him a Reject profile on here?

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 17 Nov 2015, 16:58

Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

Considering the fact that Honda lost in almost every motorsport series that they competed in this year (Example: F1, Indycar, MotoGP, Super Formula, BTCC), I think Toyota had made a slightly better engine with less reliability issues, but still miles behind Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. The biggest problem for a new engine manufacturer is start to build almost from scratch while the three other have tons of KM in track testing in the last two years. Plus, the engine development freeze also hurts the chance of a newcomer to improve and catch the others.

Simtek wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

There is no possible way of objectively answering that question. The closest parallel that I can think of is their 2012 WEC entry, which was a very successful début, but even at that, it's not a reliable model for measuring the performance of a Toyota F1 power unit. As has been pointed out on a number of previous occasions, the question is far too open-ended to give any sort of reliable answer. I do hate to say this, especially as I hate any sort of potential conflict, but I think you need to either start posing "what if" scenarios that can actually be answered with respect to any kind of concrete evidence or to simply stop posting so much in this thread.

I have to disagree. He is doing nothing wrong with his open questions. I don't know why some people are complaining against Whiteshore here. This topic was made for any "what if" scenario. Take a look in the first questions of this topic and you will see tons of open questions.

I think the problem is some users are getting angry with simple questions. The best thing to do is: If you dislike some question, just ignore. If you like, feel free to reply.

I also want to remember you guys about this topic: An open letter to all at F1Rejects.com

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Nov 2015, 18:20

Dj_bereta wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

There is no possible way of objectively answering that question. The closest parallel that I can think of is their 2012 WEC entry, which was a very successful début, but even at that, it's not a reliable model for measuring the performance of a Toyota F1 power unit. As has been pointed out on a number of previous occasions, the question is far too open-ended to give any sort of reliable answer. I do hate to say this, especially as I hate any sort of potential conflict, but I think you need to either start posing "what if" scenarios that can actually be answered with respect to any kind of concrete evidence or to simply stop posting so much in this thread.

I have to disagree. He is doing nothing wrong with his open questions. I don't know why some people are complaining against Whiteshore here. This topic was made for any "what if" scenario. Take a look in the first questions of this topic and you will see tons of open questions.

I think the problem is some users are getting angry with simple questions. The best thing to do is: If you dislike some question, just ignore. If you like, feel free to reply.

I also want to remember you guys about this topic: An open letter to all at F1Rejects.com

I tend to agree with this statement. Live and let live, people.

Dj_bereta wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

Considering the fact that Honda lost in almost every motorsport series that they competed in this year (Example: F1, Indycar, MotoGP, Super Formula, BTCC), I think Toyota had made a slightly better engine with less reliability issues, but still miles behind Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. The biggest problem for a new engine manufacturer is start to build almost from scratch while the three other have tons of KM in track testing in the last two years. Plus, the engine development freeze also hurts the chance of a newcomer to improve and catch the others.

Actually, Honda are incredibly successful in BTCC. Four of the last five titles have gone to Honda drivers, including this year. Perhaps you meant WTCC, with their pitiful excuse of a works outfit being destroyed by Chevy and then Citroen.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Nov 2015, 19:40

Dj_bereta wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

Considering the fact that Honda lost in almost every motorsport series that they competed in this year (Example: F1, Indycar, MotoGP, Super Formula, BTCC), I think Toyota had made a slightly better engine with less reliability issues, but still miles behind Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. The biggest problem for a new engine manufacturer is start to build almost from scratch while the three other have tons of KM in track testing in the last two years. Plus, the engine development freeze also hurts the chance of a newcomer to improve and catch the others.

Simtek wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Toyota instead of Honda returned to F1 in 2015, supplying McLaren? Would McLaren have fared better or worse with Toyoya power units?

There is no possible way of objectively answering that question. The closest parallel that I can think of is their 2012 WEC entry, which was a very successful début, but even at that, it's not a reliable model for measuring the performance of a Toyota F1 power unit. As has been pointed out on a number of previous occasions, the question is far too open-ended to give any sort of reliable answer. I do hate to say this, especially as I hate any sort of potential conflict, but I think you need to either start posing "what if" scenarios that can actually be answered with respect to any kind of concrete evidence or to simply stop posting so much in this thread.

I have to disagree. He is doing nothing wrong with his open questions. I don't know why some people are complaining against Whiteshore here. This topic was made for any "what if" scenario. Take a look in the first questions of this topic and you will see tons of open questions.

Yeah, but nobody's really been answering them.

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 18 Nov 2015, 16:23

I've been wondering lately - after watching races from the time - about what would have happened if Ronnie Peterson hadn't died (or even suffered career-affecting injuries) at Monza in 1978.

Not the direct result which is already well known - he was off to McLaren for 1979 - where in hindsight he probably wouldn't have had much joy unless he persisted until the Ron Dennis takeover in '81.

But in the end John Watson took the McLaren seat that would have been his - leaving a competitive Brabham to do so, with Piquet replacing him. Was Watson poached by McLaren in the aftermath of Peterson's loss, or was he out at Brabham in any case in favour of Piquet (who drove a third car in the '78 finale)?

To confuse the matter further, from some videos at the time they seem to be talking about the plan to pair Peterson with a McLaren (or customer)-affiliated youngster such as Giacomelli or even Piquet himself, with no mention of Tambay who in real life stayed for a second year with the team alongside Watson.

But yeah I'm wondering whether Peterson's death saved Watson from a premature trip to the career scrapheap, or if it indirectly gave Piquet his break?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 21 Nov 2015, 12:04

What if Honda continued to supply Spirit in 1984 and Emerson Fittipaldi drove for them?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 Nov 2015, 12:11

Whiteshore wrote:What if Honda continued to supply Spirit in 1984 and Emerson Fittipaldi drove for them?

Why on earth Fittipaldi? That suggestion makes no sense to me whatsoever. Unless I'm missing something obvious?

Whiteshore · Post by **Whiteshore** » 21 Nov 2015, 12:16

dr-baker wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Honda continued to supply Spirit in 1984 and Emerson Fittipaldi drove for them?

Why on earth Fittipaldi? That suggestion makes no sense to me whatsoever. Unless I'm missing something obvious?

http://counter-x.net/f1/1985/review/spirit/index.html
Spirit planned to run him in 1984 and went as far as him running some tests at Rio.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 21 Nov 2015, 14:44

A double world champion driving a car firmly mired at the back of the field? Unthinkable.

Oh, wait...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 22 Nov 2015, 16:00

Dj_bereta wrote:I have to disagree. He is doing nothing wrong with his open questions. I don't know why some people are complaining against Whiteshore here. This topic was made for any "what if" scenario. Take a look in the first questions of this topic and you will see tons of open questions.

I'd advise you not to use 15 year old me's (in)ability to frame questions having just signed up to F1R to defend somebody, won't get you very far :deletraz:

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 27 Nov 2015, 13:53

Whiteshore wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Whiteshore wrote:What if Honda continued to supply Spirit in 1984 and Emerson Fittipaldi drove for them?

Why on earth Fittipaldi? That suggestion makes no sense to me whatsoever. Unless I'm missing something obvious?

http://counter-x.net/f1/1985/review/spirit/index.html
Spirit planned to run him in 1984 and went as far as him running some tests at Rio.

He then realised just how shite the Spirit was.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 27 Nov 2015, 13:56

Nigel Roebuck from Motorsport has realised that we have been doing this thread for 6 years and has decided to post, in his own way:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/ ... one-to-f1/

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Nov 2015, 16:59

Faustus wrote:Nigel Roebuck from Motorsport has realised that we have been this thread for 6 years and has decided to post, in his own way:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/ ... one-to-f1/

Jeff Gordon in F1 would've been so great - the legit rival Schumi never really had.

girry · Post by **girry** » 27 Nov 2015, 17:48

It's difficult to say with confidence Jeff would have been the rival for Schumacher as talent in stock cars not even nearly always translates into talent in open wheelers, and Gordon never got even a chance to demonstrate his skills - then from the footage I've seen, Tony Stewart looked more impressive in his F1 tests...