Grand Prix Rejects

patrick wrote:

Klon wrote:Why do I have the nagging feeling that neither reserve Renault driver will be used if it comes down to the worst possible outcome?

Sadly it looks as if they will need another driver, but you're right, i dont think they will use senna at all, or only for a few races. They need someone experienced.

Who needs another driver when you have Ho-Pin Tung and Fairuz Fauzy on your ranks? I say put both of them driving!

JeremyMcClean wrote:Do you think BMW Sauber still would have been good in 2010?

They weren't even good in 2009, KazNak cost Williams 6th place.

what is Deletraz doing these days?

Some endurance driving wasn't it? Sportscars/GTs or something I forget exactly.

Schumacher was his country's first champion. So was Alonso.

Schumacher won his first title in his 3rd full racing year for Benetton. Alonso won his first title in his 3rd full racing year for Renault (formerly Benetton).

Schumacher won his second title a year later with the same team. So did Alonso.

Schumacher went on a 5 year championship streak with Ferrari starting in the 5th year following his 2nd title. It's been 5 years since Alonso's 2nd title and he's in a Ferrari...

Nice, I like these things. But because of Alonso had one year as TD, and didn't join Ferrari straight after Renault I don't love it!

watka wrote:Schumacher was his country's first champion. So was Alonso.

Schumacher won his first title in his 3rd full racing year for Benetton. Alonso won his first title in his 3rd full racing year for Renault (formerly Benetton).

Schumacher won his second title a year later with the same team. So did Alonso.

Schumacher went on a 5 year championship streak with Ferrari starting in the 5th year following his 2nd title. It's been 5 years since Alonso's 2nd title and he's in a Ferrari...

There was a German driver on the fight for the title before Schumacher (Von Trips). There weren't any Spanish before Alonso.

Schumacher went directly to Ferrari after winning back-to-back titles for Benetton. Alonso went to two different teams before joining Ferrari.

Schumacher spent 4 seasons at Ferrari before claiming the title in his 5th attempt. Alonso is only beginning his second season at the team.

Before Schumacher joined Ferrari, they had won two races in five seasons, and no championships at all. Before Alonso joined Ferrari, they had won 28 races, one drivers' championship and two constructors' ones.

Schumacher was widely recognised as the most talented driver of his era, while Alonso generally isn't.

Schumacher never had a teammate who could challenge him, because of team orders or because he was faster than them. Alonso had one.

There are coincidences everywhere if you want to look for them. But the non-coincidences are many more. It's similar to the "Lincoln and Kennedy" coincidences; once you look at them, you find that they are not surprising at all.

I don't like Joe Saward.

I support Team Lotus in the Lotus vs. Lotus issue.

Joe Saward supports Team Lotus as well.

Now I feel I'm supporting the wrong side. Yes, this is an ad hominem, but still...

Speaking of Lotus.

Why did Ronnie Peterson have the #1 on his car in 1974?

Yes they were the highest placed constructor.
Yes Ronnie was good enough to be a champion at some point in time.
Maybe they didn't want to put the #0 on his car.

ADx_Wales wrote:Did anyone else notice...

...Sebastian Vettel...

...Justin Bieber...

...are the same person...

I did. Completely independently of this thread, seeing as I've never looked at it before, until today.

ADx_Wales wrote:Speaking of Lotus.

Why did Ronnie Peterson have the #1 on his car in 1974?

Yes they were the highest placed constructor.
Yes Ronnie was good enough to be a champion at some point in time.
Maybe they didn't want to put the #0 on his car.

Car 0 wasn't without precedent, given that Jody Scheckter had had it on his car for Canada and the USA in 1973, but then, 1974 was the first year of permanent numbering, so maybe nobody in The Powers That Be had thought of it?

I heard similar thoughts from other F1 fans at the beginning of the 1993 season when Damon Hill was given car 0, except the argument was: if there was no car 1, why couldn't it have been reordered to: Williams = 2 & 3, Tyrrell = 4 & 5, Benetton = 6 & 7, etc. Even with Damon Hill taking 0, the 1993 season saw some extensive rehashing of the numbers with Brabham dropping out, McLaren moving to 7 & 8 instead of 5 & 6 which would have been the straight swap with Williams, Benetton taking the vacated 5 & 6, Larrousse filling in 19 & 20...

Here's how it could have been on the 2 & 3 system, and had the numbers not shunted around the way they were, with the exception of Tyrrell, moving into the slot vacated by Brabham:

Williams: 2 - Prost, 3 - Hill
McLaren: 5 - Andretti/Häkkinen, 6 - Senna (seeing as only Andretti was initially signed for the season)
Tyrrell: 7 - Katayama, 8 - de Cesaris
Footwork: 9 - Warwick, 10 - A. Suzuki
Lotus: 11 - Zanardi/Lamy, 12 - Herbert
14 & 15 vacant, with the departure of Fondmetal
March (though they never made it to the first race, or anywhere else in the season, this is how they were supposed to line up): 16 - Boutsen (before getting the Jordan drive, who knows who he'd have been replaced by... Paul Belmondo, maybe?), 17 - Frentzen
Benetton: 19 - Schumacher, 20 - Patrese
Scuderia Italia: 21 - Alboreto, 22 - Badoer
Minardi: 23 - Fittipaldi/Gounon, 24 - Barbazza/Martini
Ligier: 25 - Brundle, 26 - Blundell
Ferrari: 27 - Alesi, 28 - Berger
Larrousse: 29 - Alliot/T. Suzuki, 30 - Comas
Jordan: 32 - Barrichello, 33 - Capelli/Boutsen/Apicella/Naspetti/Irvine
Sauber: 34 - Wendlinger, 35 - Lehto

And you know what that means? Black cars in the 34/35 slot. Remind anyone of anything from the previous season...?

I see that Pirelli are going to evaluate Lucas di Grassi as a possible future tester for them.

Maybe they value recent F1 experience over overall experience, but I was thinking that one Luca Badoer would surely be of great use for them. He has done more testing than almost anyone else on the planet, and is, sadly, no longer affiliated to a team. In de la Rosa and Heidfeld it's not as though youth is a must-have for them. Also, he undoubtably did a large amount of work developing Bridgestones for Ferrari.

I just wonder if the unjust stigma over his 2009 performances will rule him out of consideration? I'm sure some people would start some nasty jokes should they hire him.

Was the LOL thing named after someone who couldn't stop laughing at Lola's efforts to (not) qualify for the 1997 Australian GP (that is, LOLing)?

Ed24 wrote:I see that Pirelli are going to evaluate Lucas di Grassi as a possible future tester for them.

Maybe at Suzuka, test the strength of the tyres and see if they can stay in one piece after 130R

redbulljack14 wrote:

Ed24 wrote:I see that Pirelli are going to evaluate Lucas di Grassi as a possible future tester for them.

Maybe at Suzuka, test the strength of the tyres and see if they can stay in one piece after 130R

Or if di Grassi can keep the car on the track in 130R...

Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Hush. You might awaken the haters.
I do agree with you, but this line could almost go to the "Unpopular F1 opinions" in the JDD forum...

DonTirri wrote:

watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Hush. You might awaken the haters.
I do agree with you, but this line could almost go to the "Unpopular F1 opinions" in the JDD forum...

Haters gonna hate...

watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Seconded

Wizzie wrote:

watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Seconded

Thirded....

WeirdKerr wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Seconded

Thirded....

Fourthed

Cynon wrote:

WeirdKerr, Wizzie, watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Seconded

Thirded....

Fourthed

Fifthed

dr-baker wrote:

Cynon wrote:

WeirdKerr, Wizzie, watka wrote:Pirelli could end up being the best thing that happened to F1 since a long time ago.

Seconded

Thirded....

Fourthed

Fifthed

Sixthed, though credit must also go to the FIA for asking them to produce such a tyre.

Hello from a newbie by the way

Hello my friend, welcome to the Pirelli fan boy club.

Imagine if we had a flame war with all the Bridgestone fan boys...

watka wrote:Imagine if we had a flame war with all the Bridgestone fan boys...

...Are there any at this point?

watka wrote:Imagine if we had a flame war with all the Bridgestone fan boys...

Well, the Bridgestone guys would make the same point over and over again for 2 hours, while we would have to stop and change to a new argument every 20 minutes

If it wasn't for their double disqualification at Australia, Sauber would be ahead of Mercedes in the constructors championship by 1 point right now... interesting.

Not sure where this should go, but seeing as I am pondering, it might as well be here!

On my way down to Oxford today I saw five (yes 5!) 'Lotus Renault GP' artic truck cabs minus their trailers trundling in convoy headed in the opposite direction. The question is, what were they doing all together? Is the frieght from China back already?!

AndreaModa wrote:Not sure where this should go, but seeing as I am pondering, it might as well be here!

On my way down to Oxford today I saw five (yes 5!) 'Lotus Renault GP' artic truck cabs minus their trailers trundling in convoy headed in the opposite direction. The question is, what were they doing all together? Is the frieght from China back already?!

Could be, or it could be the European fleet preparing to leave as they probably do not do much haulage on the long distance races because most equipment is flown in.
The Oxford area is a good spot for misc F1 stuff, I saw an old Arrows GP transporter on the motorway a few months ago

patrick wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Not sure where this should go, but seeing as I am pondering, it might as well be here!

On my way down to Oxford today I saw five (yes 5!) 'Lotus Renault GP' artic truck cabs minus their trailers trundling in convoy headed in the opposite direction. The question is, what were they doing all together? Is the frieght from China back already?!

Could be, or it could be the European fleet preparing to leave as they probably do not do much haulage on the long distance races because most equipment is flown in.
The Oxford area is a good spot for misc F1 stuff, I saw an old Arrows GP transporter on the motorway a few months ago

It's why I absolutely adore living round here as an F1 fan!

patrick wrote: I saw an old Arrows GP transporter on the motorway a few months ago

Someone should really put a stop to these lengthy traffic jams.

AndreaModa wrote: It's why I absolutely adore living round here as an F1 fan!

Damm!!! Wish my dad got that williams job in 2002, now living in New Zealand, motorsport over here sucks badly.

So what does Red Bull do to keep China from happening again? (Not that I hope it doesn't happen again) Improve their clutch? Practice starts constantly? It seems as though as long as Vettel can reach turn 1 in the lead, the race is his. So what ultimately led to him being overtaken by the McLarens? A poor start, a second rate KERS? Both?

F1000X wrote:So what does Red Bull do to keep China from happening again? (Not that I hope it doesn't happen again) Improve their clutch? Practice starts constantly? It seems as though as long as Vettel can reach turn 1 in the lead, the race is his. So what ultimately led to him being overtaken by the McLarens? A poor start, a second rate KERS? Both?

There are a fair few things that were highlighted afterwards - KERS was one, and another factor was a poor start (simply due to a slightly poor getaway as the engine revs were not quite high enough), but there are a few more issues along the way. Red Bull are already reviewing their KERS, since they have had repeated failures (rumoured to be due to overheating, due to the very tight packaging requirements that Newey has imposed on the system) - James Allen reports that Vettel's KERS was down on power, producing only 30bhp instead of 80bhp.

Another area where Red Bull seemed to be caught out on, although this caught out a number of teams, was the fact that the track did not rubber in as quickly as expected, based on data from the previous races and the practise sessions. McLaren subsequently admitted that they'd gone into the race originally planning on a two stop strategy, but used the data coming in from others, especially Rosberg, to make the switch to a three stop strategy as the race went on. I think that Red Bull may need to be a bit more flexible on strategy, and prepared to change it to cover McLaren and others if it looks like they might be on the wrong path.

Horner did later admit that their strategy probably went wrong from the start when Vettel was passed by both McLaren drivers - they reckoned, as did others, that a two stop strategy would work best if Vettel could have pulled out a gap at the beginning of the race so he would have been further ahead before the final stint. As it was, Vettel couldn't build up an advantage early on, and higher than expected tyre wear in his final stint meant that he had to back off to make it to the finish, leaving him vulnerable to Hamilton with his fresher tyres. So, perhaps having a more flexible strategy would help, but they were partially caught out by unexpected developments - as it is, I hope that this happens more often, so at least McLaren can offer some opposition to Red Bull, especially Vettel.

Looking ahead, though, Turkey could prove to be a major challenge for the teams. Nico Rosberg mentioned in a piece for the BBC that the teams were having some problems with the front tyres in China. The high sustained loads in Turn 1 were causing the surface of the tyre to overheat, resulting in increasing understeer as you went through the corner - Turn 8, where the tyre loads are higher and sustained for longer, could be very problematic. On top of that, the ambient temperature is likely to be higher than China and Melbourne, which could cause further tyre degradation problems.

If Turkey is set to experience severe tire degradation issues, then what's in store for Canada?

Rocks with Salt wrote:If Turkey is set to experience severe tire degradation issues, then what's in store for Canada?

Lots and lots of fun!

I've just realised something. There hasn't been a Formula One race at the Nurburgring with no refueling since 1985... not that it'll make THAT much difference mind you but it is an interesting thought.

dr-baker wrote:

Rocks with Salt wrote:If Turkey is set to experience severe tire degradation issues, then what's in store for Canada?

Lots and lots of fun!

Aw, hell YES!

People are awfully quiet today. I understood there is a marriage going on. Did Barrichello finally accepted Schumacher request?

DanielPT wrote:People are awfully quiet today. I understood there is a marriage going on. Did Barrichello finally accepted Schumacher request?

No. It was between Fernando and Lewis (alternatively pronounced 'Louise' by Steve Machett on the Speed TV podcasts...).

dr-baker wrote:

DanielPT wrote:People are awfully quiet today. I understood there is a marriage going on. Did Barrichello finally accepted Schumacher request?

No. It was between Fernando and Lewis (alternatively pronounced 'Louise' by Steve Machett on the Speed TV podcasts...).

That one will sure have a few fights to spice it up. Fernando is a Latin macho and Lewise is a modern lady. It is now a couple made in heaven!