2011 Australian Grand Prix discussion thread

[Ataxia]

And Vettel gave Coulthard a faceful of cake.

[BabyG]

YES! Petrov third! Unrejectified!

And trust Horner to casually throw that bon mot into the post race interview when he revealed that they'd stripped the KERS out of the car during practise because of reliability problems. As they say, Newey probably didn't design that car around KERS (instead, he designed the KERS around the car) - but it makes you wonder how much additional performance Red Bull might have in their pocket if they did have a reliable KERS fitted to the car.

It was interesting to hear what DC was saying on the BBC f1 forum about the Red Bull and KERS as you have stated, but also about the restrictions on weight distribution this season. As I understand it, he was inferring that the Red Bull are carrying a dummy KERS system as balast to meet that rule. Which would mean that to use a KERS system, not just nessecarily to have one fitted, actually slows you down!

On a further beyond the headlines note, did anyone notice a Mercedes at all today? Did they forget to set their alarm clocks this morning?

[TomWazzleshaw]

On a further beyond the headlines note, did anyone notice a Mercedes at all today? Did they forget to set their alarm clocks this morning?

I'm fairly certain Mercedes became a punching bag for the rest of the field or something like that.

[Chewie]

On a further beyond the headlines note, did anyone notice a Mercedes at all today? Did they forget to set their alarm clocks this morning?

To be fair to them, both cars were shunted out of the race by piss poor moves by other drivers; no pace themselves mind but hardly their fault that they went home early.

[FullMetalJack]

On a further beyond the headlines note, did anyone notice a Mercedes at all today? Did they forget to set their alarm clocks this morning?

To be fair to them, both cars were shunted out of the race by piss poor moves by other drivers; no pace themselves mind but hardly their fault that they went home early.

To be honest, Rosberg wasn't fairing too badly, I reckon he could have picked up 5th.

[Klon]

Interesting comment by Barrichello:

"I wasn’t planning on overtaking him [Nico Rosberg] at that point, I was defending from Kobayashi. I think we have one tyre with grip and one with less and so we have different braking points. Rosberg braked earlier, and was already in the middle of the corner before I could stop the car."

Makes you wonder if he has a point, that he wasn't attempting to attack Rosberg and was too busy with Kobayashi (who was very much on his back). Makes his mistake not less amateurish, but somewhat more understandable.

[fjackdaw]

DRS on its own didn't work. DRS with KERS did work.

Actually you might be right there but I don't understand the calls to make the DRS much more powerful when everyone was complaining about the potential for articficial overtaking before. I'll be happpy if they leave it as it is for now.

Exactly. Overtaking shouldn't be easy, otherwise where's the tension? It should just be possible. I'm sure if DRS had meant that people were passing artificially every few seconds, people would be complaining just as much.

[patrick]

Has anyone heard any more about Force India swapping the drivers around during the GP? It was mentioned by Ted Kravitz in the latter stages

[DanielPT]

I really thought that Webber's race was a bit disappointing. Ever since Vettel started to seriously dominate, Webber looks slow. Hope he get is act together. Force India, the slowest of the established teams, did very well. Mercedes on the other hand, sucked. It doesn't look good for them.

[Bleu]

After Saubers were disqualified, Alguersuari got his fourth 11th place in last five races.

[ADx_Wales]

Now that the likes of Team Lotus, Virgin and Hispania have to bend over every time a faster car hurtles towards them you wont see the likes of THIS ever again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbnn5z0x7Vw

[Enforcer]

Struggling to decide whether DRS worked or not.

It showed 3 passes involving it, 2 by Button and 1 by Massa. The two Button made, it looked to me like he didn't really eat the tarmac between the drivers until he hit his KERS and Massa was a lot quicker than Buemi when he passed him. Then again, maybe with the KERS only Button would've gotten nowhere and Massa might have gotten bottled up behind Buemi until his tires burned up a la Alonso last season.

What I found interesting was that in the first Button/Massa duel, Massa was able to counteract Button's DRS by saving the bulk of his KERS and dropping it all on the first part of the straight. Button eventually caught him on the back straight probably because Massa was saving his KERS for the main straight. On tracks with two very long straights that might get interesting tactics-wise.

[jackanderton]

Has anyone heard any more about Force India swapping the drivers around during the GP? It was mentioned by Ted Kravitz in the latter stages

Di Resta excused this saying he was having fuel issues which meant he had to back off. Not sure what to believe though.

[mario]

Struggling to decide whether DRS worked or not.

It showed 3 passes involving it, 2 by Button and 1 by Massa. The two Button made, it looked to me like he didn't really eat the tarmac between the drivers until he hit his KERS and Massa was a lot quicker than Buemi when he passed him. Then again, maybe with the KERS only Button would've gotten nowhere and Massa might have gotten bottled up behind Buemi until his tires burned up a la Alonso last season.

What I found interesting was that in the first Button/Massa duel, Massa was able to counteract Button's DRS by saving the bulk of his KERS and dropping it all on the first part of the straight. Button eventually caught him on the back straight probably because Massa was saving his KERS for the main straight. On tracks with two very long straights that might get interesting tactics-wise.

It's rather ironic that now that one complaint levelled against the idea during the testing sessions - that the idea would make passing too easy - has now been replaced by complaints that it doesn't make a significant difference in passing.

Personally, I think it is still a little early to write the idea off just yet, even if I am somewhat sceptical about the idea. Most of the drivers said afterwards that it would have been better if they could have moved the DRS zone to between Turns 2 to 3, since it is easier to attempt a passing move into Turn 3 instead of Turn 1. The fact that KERS are also present complicate the scenario, since, as you say, it could be used both offensively and defensively, partially cancelling out the effect of the DRS.

What was more encouraging, though, was the fact that the trailing driver was able to stay closer to the driver in front. After all, Button was able to attack Massa for several laps, and forced Massa to have to drive much more defensively, regardless of the DRS or not. The fact that we had two drivers on track and actively contesting their respective positions was, to me at least, a refreshing change, so whilst the DRS might have lacked some bite, the overall aero packages the teams now have seem to be more conducive to passing anyway.

[Ross Prawn]

I liked the Ferrari tactic of letting Alonso pass Massa so that Button would have to let them both pass him. Should get prize for most amusing application of team orders.

Given that the tyre stops were about to come up, Button's move was over desparate, he could well have done Massa on the stop a lap later.

[Pommy Barsteward]

I thought the race was dull and I went back to bed after 27 laps. Just watched the second half which wasn't much better.

But - one positive was Brundle and Coulthard. They did a good job. I'm surprised Hamilton didn't get the black and orange flag though.

[Dom]

And trust Horner to casually throw that bon mot into the post race interview when he revealed that they'd stripped the KERS out of the car during practise because of reliability problems. As they say, Newey probably didn't design that car around KERS (instead, he designed the KERS around the car) - but it makes you wonder how much additional performance Red Bull might have in their pocket if they did have a reliable KERS fitted to the car.

I thought Horner was a bit smug about that, especially considering his team did suffer from their lack of KERS. Vettel was OK, because Hamilton got a pretty rubbish start, but Webber would probably have beaten Hamilton into the first corner but for Hamilton's KERS. Yeah, not running KERS has given them a quicker car, but it might put them in a situational disadvantage at some races this year.

[Pommy Barsteward]

Fantastic drive by Petrov. It is far too easy to dismiss him as a rent a driver, but he is actually quite competent. Sad to say, but imagine if Kubica was in the other car rather than Nick ZZZZZZZZZZZfest...

[DemocalypseNow]

This may explain why Heidfeld was so crap. The TVs gave him no airtime which is presumably why we all missed this. Looks like enough damage to cause a performance drop-off.

[Dom]

This may explain why Heidfeld was so crap. The TVs gave him no airtime which is presumably why we all missed this. Looks like enough damage to cause a performance drop-off.

Looks like enough damage to retire. It doesn't excuse his lame qualifying performance though.

Also, I like the way (Lotus) Renault are trying to confuse us all by painting yellow letters on the sidewall of hard tyre. Just a coincidence or are they deliberately trying to mislead people?

[eytl]

What was more encouraging, though, was the fact that the trailing driver was able to stay closer to the driver in front. After all, Button was able to attack Massa for several laps, and forced Massa to have to drive much more defensively, regardless of the DRS or not. The fact that we had two drivers on track and actively contesting their respective positions was, to me at least, a refreshing change, so whilst the DRS might have lacked some bite, the overall aero packages the teams now have seem to be more conducive to passing anyway.

Excellent point. Even if the DRS doesn't lead to a pass immediately, it might at least lead to a move which e.g. causes a block which leads to a criss-cross move at the next sequence of corners etc.

[golic_2004]

This may explain why Heidfeld was so crap. The TVs gave him no airtime which is presumably why we all missed this. Looks like enough damage to cause a performance drop-off.

Looks like enough damage to retire. It doesn't excuse his lame qualifying performance though.

Also, I like the way (Lotus) Renault are trying to confuse us all by painting yellow letters on the sidewall of hard tyre. Just a coincidence or are they deliberately trying to mislead people?

Oh yikes.

[IdeFan]

Speaking of battle damage, has there been any news on Hamilton's floor?

a) How it happened, the footage I saw showed it apparently broken before he took a trip across the grass, suggesting that the the damage caused the off rather than the other way around.

b) Have the scrutineers allowed it? The lack of news (and the fact that Sauber got DQed) suggests that they did, but I am wondering whether there wasn't enough plank wear to be an infringement or whether the rules allow excessive wear as long as its due to car damage and not an illegal setup.

[mario]

Speaking of battle damage, has there been any news on Hamilton's floor?

a) How it happened, the footage I saw showed it apparently broken before he took a trip across the grass, suggesting that the the damage caused the off rather than the other way around.

b) Have the scrutineers allowed it? The lack of news (and the fact that Sauber got DQed) suggests that they did, but I am wondering whether there wasn't enough plank wear to be an infringement or whether the rules allow excessive wear as long as its due to car damage and not an illegal setup.

So far, I think that the team are still studying the car to try and work out what had happened to his floor.

Footage from the BBC showed that the splitter was broken in turn 16 as Hamilton came onto the start finish straight before he went off track. I'd hazard a guess that the splitter broke within the previous few laps at the most, since Hamilton himself didn't notice anything amiss until, basically, he went off track as a result of it. And since Hamilton only seemed to go off track after the splitter broke, and he doesn't seem to have hit anything on track, you'd have to assume that the floor was defective and broke of its own accord.

As for the second part, yes, the scrutineers have allowed Hamilton's 2nd place to stand - all the cars in the top 10 have to go through the standard FIA checks, which does include checking the floor of the car for excess wear. The post race report can be found here http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-40.pdf and it shows that Hamilton's car did pass the post race checks.
The wear pattern would presumably be quite different to what you'd get if the floor was simply riding too low to the ground (in this case, the wear would be concentrated around the leading edge of the floor), and scrutineers do take into account accident damage or component failure during their checks.

[LionZoo]

Speaking of battle damage, has there been any news on Hamilton's floor?

a) How it happened, the footage I saw showed it apparently broken before he took a trip across the grass, suggesting that the the damage caused the off rather than the other way around.

b) Have the scrutineers allowed it? The lack of news (and the fact that Sauber got DQed) suggests that they did, but I am wondering whether there wasn't enough plank wear to be an infringement or whether the rules allow excessive wear as long as its due to car damage and not an illegal setup.

So far, I think that the team are still studying the car to try and work out what had happened to his floor.

Footage from the BBC showed that the splitter was broken in turn 16 as Hamilton came onto the start finish straight before he went off track. I'd hazard a guess that the splitter broke within the previous few laps at the most, since Hamilton himself didn't notice anything amiss until, basically, he went off track as a result of it. And since Hamilton only seemed to go off track after the splitter broke, and he doesn't seem to have hit anything on track, you'd have to assume that the floor was defective and broke of its own accord.

As for the second part, yes, the scrutineers have allowed Hamilton's 2nd place to stand - all the cars in the top 10 have to go through the standard FIA checks, which does include checking the floor of the car for excess wear. The post race report can be found here http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-40.pdf and it shows that Hamilton's car did pass the post race checks.
The wear pattern would presumably be quite different to what you'd get if the floor was simply riding too low to the ground (in this case, the wear would be concentrated around the leading edge of the floor), and scrutineers do take into account accident damage or component failure during their checks.

The underbody plank also starts quite a bit behind the splitter. I think the leading edge of the plank is around where the sidepod inlets are located.

[DanielPT]

What was more encouraging, though, was the fact that the trailing driver was able to stay closer to the driver in front. After all, Button was able to attack Massa for several laps, and forced Massa to have to drive much more defensively, regardless of the DRS or not. The fact that we had two drivers on track and actively contesting their respective positions was, to me at least, a refreshing change, so whilst the DRS might have lacked some bite, the overall aero packages the teams now have seem to be more conducive to passing anyway.

Excellent point. Even if the DRS doesn't lead to a pass immediately, it might at least lead to a move which e.g. causes a block which leads to a criss-cross move at the next sequence of corners etc.

I really liked DRS debut. Has you guys already pointed out people were able to drive closer and, while it doesn't mean people can pass right away, it does entertain enough. It still is a gimmick to disguise the fact that the cars can't drive close to the guy in front, but a welcome one. After all it does allow people to catch the guy in front. And best of all, you still need to out race the guy in front if one is to overtake. When one sees on-board footage of the DRS in action, the feeling one gets is that the car is going faster which is a good feeling.

Sadly that lapped guys must now get out of the track (almost!) in order to let the leaders go by...

[DemocalypseNow]

Back to the Di Resta - Sutil swap for a moment...
Force India accidentally underfuelled Di Resta. And I don't mean in the way all the teams do to squeeze performance, I mean 2L less than Sutil had. He had to conserve fuel so that's presumably why it happened.

[patrick]

Back to the Di Resta - Sutil swap for a moment...
Force India accidentally underfuelled Di Resta. And I don't mean in the way all the teams do to squeeze performance, I mean 2L less than Sutil had. He had to conserve fuel so that's presumably why it happened.

oh, that's a bit of a silly error. Suppose it makes more sense than them just swapping positions for the sake of it, I thought it sounded odd as it's not as if Adrian has a championship to think about...

[Myrvold]

Anyone seen that Lotus had a good racepace?

[mario]

Anyone seen that Lotus had a good racepace?

Not especially - Trulli was pretty much the best part of two seconds a lap off the midfield pace - hell, Heidfeld was able to stay ahead of both Team Lotus cars despite having a large chunk of his bodywork and floor missing. In fact, Glock was at one point catching Trulli, although that levelled out a bit later, and of course Glock eventually had problems with his car. Heikki was a fraction faster, but his car suffered from a water leak, which was a problem that afflicted Lotus all the way through testing, and still seems to be a problem now.

That said, whilst Glock was at least able to keep respectably close to Trulli's pace before he hit trouble, D'Ambrosio's pace was a bit of a mystery. He started off lapping in the high 1m37's, which was not that far off Glock's or Trulli's pace - but, despite fresh tyres and a ever decreasing fuel load, his times barely improved over the course of the race. Hell, Trulli's times decreased by five seconds over the course of the race, and he got down to a 1m32.55, but D'Ambrosio could only manage a 1m34.52 - and most of his laps were much slower than that (closer to 1m36's). OK, some of that might be because of being lapped, but come on, even Trullli lapped him - D'Ambrosio was four laps down on the leader, and two laps behind even Trulli!

For Mark Webber's supporters, there is some good and bad news about Webber's performance in Melbourne, and what it might mean for the rest of the season. Racecar Engineering is reporting that Helmut Marko, when interviewed by RTL, said that Webber was suffering from problems with his chassis, hence his poor pace relative to his team mate. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/even ... al-report/
Now, whilst it's perhaps a sign that Webber might well be able to extract more from his car with a fresh chassis, it might be difficult for Red Bull to get a new chassis ready and shipped out to Sepang in time for the next race. Hopefully they can, because if Mark's forced to wait until the start of the European season, then he could be a long way behind not just Vettel, but the McLaren duo and possibly Alonso too.

[Myrvold]

I was more thinking of Heikki's pace. He was a good bit faster than Jarno in the race before he retired. That looked good.