Grand Prix Rejects

wsrgo wrote:Muller will thrash Loeb in 2014. No, not thrash, hammer. Or maybe steamroll.

On what basis do you suppose that will be the case? I'm expecting Muller to have the upper hand, but Loeb is a competent driver when it comes to conventional circuit racing (he was just as quick as his team mates when competing at Le Mans in 2005 and 2006 and has spent most of this year competing in the FIA's GT racing series).
Speaking of the WTCC, I do wonder if the decision to change the technical regulations might come back to haunt them - they've already lost the support of BMW who, although not fielding a works team per se, provided a number of the independent teams with cars and technical support that now has to be withdrawn as BMW won't stomach the cost of building bespoke engines just for the WTCC.

mario wrote:

wsrgo wrote:Muller will thrash Loeb in 2014. No, not thrash, hammer. Or maybe steamroll.

On what basis do you suppose that will be the case? I'm expecting Muller to have the upper hand, but Loeb is a competent driver when it comes to conventional circuit racing (he was just as quick as his team mates when competing at Le Mans in 2005 and 2006 and has spent most of this year competing in the FIA's GT racing series).
Speaking of the WTCC, I do wonder if the decision to change the technical regulations might come back to haunt them - they've already lost the support of BMW who, although not fielding a works team per se, provided a number of the independent teams with cars and technical support that now has to be withdrawn as BMW won't stomach the cost of building bespoke engines just for the WTCC.

I agree with the point on the bespoke engines because and feel free to corect me if I'm wrong but, I thought the engines were based on the Global Race Engine concept. When one adds the fact that only 11 drivers are confirmed for next year with 2 more to be announced, I think it's the beginning of the end for the series.

roblomas52 wrote:

mario wrote:

wsrgo wrote:Muller will thrash Loeb in 2014. No, not thrash, hammer. Or maybe steamroll.

On what basis do you suppose that will be the case? I'm expecting Muller to have the upper hand, but Loeb is a competent driver when it comes to conventional circuit racing (he was just as quick as his team mates when competing at Le Mans in 2005 and 2006 and has spent most of this year competing in the FIA's GT racing series).
Speaking of the WTCC, I do wonder if the decision to change the technical regulations might come back to haunt them - they've already lost the support of BMW who, although not fielding a works team per se, provided a number of the independent teams with cars and technical support that now has to be withdrawn as BMW won't stomach the cost of building bespoke engines just for the WTCC.

I agree with the point on the bespoke engines because and feel free to corect me if I'm wrong but, I thought the engines were based on the Global Race Engine concept. When one adds the fact that only 11 drivers are confirmed for next year with 2 more to be announced, I think it's the beginning of the end for the series.

IIRC, the explanation given by BMW is that their existing engine would be eligible for 2014, but it would not be possible for them to achieve the target power output without sacrificing too much in terms of reliability. The upshot is that there are not enough independent teams to make it worthwhile financially for BMW to develop a new engine, so they have decided to cut their losses and divert their resources elsewhere (mainly towards DTM).

Hillclimbers are the bravest drivers in the world.

Dark77 wrote:Hillclimbers are the bravest drivers in the world.

Epecially if they are doing the Pike Peak hillclimb

Dark77 wrote:Hillclimbers are the bravest drivers in the world.

I agree, the guardrails aren't of the same quality as the catch fences in racing tracks at Indianapolis or Daytona. On the other side of the guard rail might be a ravine hundreds of feet deep.

Dark77 wrote:Hillclimbers are the bravest drivers in the world.

I think they are the world's best drivers except for rally drivers. No doubt that they're up there in terms of bravery. Not unpopular.

IndyCar doesn't need as many street circuits.

go_Rubens wrote:IndyCar doesn't need as many street circuits.

With some races in Europe! (After all, look at the number of European racers they have!)

dr-baker wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:IndyCar doesn't need as many street circuits.

With some races in Europe! (After all, look at the number of European racers they have!)

Not just Europe. Asia and Australia beckon...

go_Rubens wrote:

Dark77 wrote:Hillclimbers are the bravest drivers in the world.

I think they are the world's best drivers except for rally drivers. No doubt that they're up there in terms of bravery. Not unpopular.

IndyCar doesn't need as many street circuits.

In fact that is how the Unsers started in auto racing was with hill climbs on Pike's Peak.

Dario was waaaayyyyyy overrrated. (Still sucks injuries forced him out, you hate to see that but nonetheless)

Wallio wrote:Dario was waaaayyyyyy overrrated. (Still sucks injuries forced him out, you hate to see that but nonetheless)

Just goes to show how weak US drivers are then that a 38 year old failed European single seater driver can still win the Indycar title.

watka wrote:

Wallio wrote:Dario was waaaayyyyyy overrrated. (Still sucks injuries forced him out, you hate to see that but nonetheless)

Just goes to show how weak US drivers are then that a 38 year old failed European single seater driver can still win the Indycar title.

Can't really argue that, most of Dario's competition was crap for years, but what does that say less about, them or him? I honesty don't know. And of course he never won an Indy 500 under green.

Despite that Audi and Toyota are still competing in LMP1, the fact that Nissan and possibly Ferrari showing up at Le Mans won't really liven up the show much.

Ryan Villopoto is Supercross's version of Sebastian Vettel.

BTCC is the best series in the world right now.

Dark77 wrote:BTCC is the best series in the world right now.

It sure seems that way. It's just unfortunate that I can't watch BTCC in the States anymore, which is a shame.

watka wrote:

Wallio wrote:Dario was waaaayyyyyy overrrated. (Still sucks injuries forced him out, you hate to see that but nonetheless)

Just goes to show how weak US drivers are then that a 38 year old failed European single seater driver can still win the Indycar title.

NASCAR drained IndyCar of most of the talent after the IndyCar/CART split.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

watka wrote:

Wallio wrote:Dario was waaaayyyyyy overrrated. (Still sucks injuries forced him out, you hate to see that but nonetheless)

Just goes to show how weak US drivers are then that a 38 year old failed European single seater driver can still win the Indycar title.

NASCAR drained IndyCar of most of the talent after the IndyCar/CART split.

Which is kind of why a lot of IndyCar drivers are quite mediocre in my eyes.

IndyCar will be dead in a few years.

Formula E is a brilliant idea that will stand the test of time and flourish in glory
Some solutions, like replacing the car mid-race, will even make it to Formula One so we'll have an epic return of turbo engines with an output power of 2000BHP that expire in a truly explosive manner.









Now when you think of it...

Dark77 wrote:IndyCar will be dead in a few years.

I think it depends on how the next years will pan out. For now, IndyCar has a relatively huge title sponsor that could cause some buzz for the series. On the other hand, IndyCar needs more races, especially road races and ovals. I fail to see how more street courses will improve the series overall; if anything, IndyCar should only race at Toronto and Long Beach, due to the long history of both tracks.
Then, IndyCar should look to bring back more "heroes" of the past for a full-time campaign. They should try to bring back the viewers that left IndyCar by bringing back their heroes of the past for 1-2 season. Like Paul Tracy, Robby Gordon or Gil de Ferran. Obviously, IndyCar also needs to put a focus on building up today's and tomorrow's stars. Especially the latter gets neglected a bit. In my opinion, IndyCar should open up an academy for young go-kart or USAC drivers that brings them all the way from the Mazda series to the IndyCar series.

But even if IndyCar does fail in the next years, the 500 will still be around. Maybe the month of May will become more worthwhile again.

Unpopular opinion: Indycar fans are way too deeply prejudiced against street courses due to them being boring in the past, and fail to see how they now constantly produce the best races in the series with DW12

giraurd wrote:Unpopular opinion: Indycar fans are way too deeply prejudiced against street courses due to them being boring in the past, and fail to see how they now constantly produce the best races in the series with DW12

I strongly disagree, as in my opinion, the best racing with the DW12 was produced on ovals, especially at Indianapolis. Street courses on the other hand are pretty much interchangable and don't have much history, apart from Toronto and Long Beach.

Ferrarist wrote:

giraurd wrote:Unpopular opinion: Indycar fans are way too deeply prejudiced against street courses due to them being boring in the past, and fail to see how they now constantly produce the best races in the series with DW12

I strongly disagree, as in my opinion, the best racing with the DW12 was artificially manufactured on ovals, especially at Indianapolis. Street courses on the other hand are pretty much interchangable and don't have much history, apart from Toronto and Long Beach.

Fixed.

Formula Nippon is a better name than Super Formula.

Ferrarist wrote:

giraurd wrote:Unpopular opinion: Indycar fans are way too deeply prejudiced against street courses due to them being boring in the past, and fail to see how they now constantly produce the best races in the series with DW12

I strongly disagree, as in my opinion, the best racing with the DW12 was produced on ovals, especially at Indianapolis. Street courses on the other hand are pretty much interchangable and don't have much history, apart from Toronto and Long Beach.

Toronto only has history due to the death of Jeff Krosnoff.

Why is history needed to host a good race? Barber has little history, but it's pretty damn good a racetrack for indycars anyway, both racing-wise and the healthiness-of-the-event-wise. Likewise St. Pete.

Unpopular opinion II: Indycar fans are way too stuck in the history of their sport.

giraurd wrote:Why is history needed to host a good race? Barber has little history, but it's pretty damn good a racetrack for indycars anyway, both racing-wise and the healthiness-of-the-event-wise. Likewise St. Pete.

Unpopular opinion II: Indycar fans are way too stuck in the history of their sport.

I would say that it's quite possibly the opposite problem in NASCAR. NASCAR fans often seem to care more about the drivers than the history that made their sport into what it is today.

giraurd wrote:Why is history needed to host a good race? Barber has little history, but it's pretty damn good a racetrack for indycars anyway, both racing-wise and the healthiness-of-the-event-wise. Likewise St. Pete.

Add the Indy road course to that list. Having that instead of the massive wind up through May for the Indy 500 has proven to be absolutely the right call, tradition be damned. It's another great race which will do more for the build-up to the Indy 500 than anything else.

If there were ratings for 2014 IndyCar drivers, so far, I'd put Montoya in the top 3. He's been out of single seaters for almost a decade and yet he lies in the top 5 of the championship, in contention for the title, with his only DNF all season arguably not being his fault.

good_Ralf wrote:If there were ratings for 2014 IndyCar drivers, so far, I'd put Montoya in the top 3. He's been out of single seaters for almost a decade and yet he lies in the top 5 of the championship, in contention for the title, with his only DNF all season arguably not being his fault.

I can't quite agree with that - certainly, Montoya has done better than I expected, but Penske are the best IndyCar team this year by far, as evidenced by the two biggest title protagonists at this stage being Montoya's teammates.

That said, I can really only definitively say that RHR and Pagenaud have been more impressive than Montoya for me - possibly I'd put Munoz, Bourdais or Aleshin ahead of him, but it wouldn't be by much.

IndyCar should have 10 ovals and 10 road courses on the calendar, with longer road course races and no double-headers, like in Renngeist's managament series. Also, they should use the old CART point system.

Any racing competition in Argentina is better than F1 right now.
F1 will die if continues like this.

BTCC need those Radical Performance Engineering V8's being used in the Super TC2000 series. They sound awesome!

NASCAR and IndyCars should race in wet on ovals. To make it safe, only race wet at 1 mile oval or less

The FIA should scrap the WTCC completely, and use the money saved to promote categories like the BTCC, DTM and EuroV8 series

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:The FIA should scrap the WTCC completely, and use the money saved to promote categories like the BTCC, DTM and EuroV8 series

That's not unpopular this year.

Miguel98 wrote:

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:The FIA should scrap the WTCC completely, and use the money saved to promote categories like the BTCC, DTM and EuroV8 series

That's not unpopular this year.

I watched a few WTCC races at the start of this year, then gave up. The Citroens do not even have an interesting livery to look at! The only interest for me is seeing how well Thompson and Huff go in the Ladas...

good_Ralf wrote:If there were ratings for 2014 IndyCar drivers, so far, I'd put Montoya in the top 3. He's been out of single seaters for almost a decade and yet he lies in the top 5 of the championship, in contention for the title, with his only DNF all season arguably not being his fault.

Juan Pablo hasn't driven open wheel cars on an oval for even longer as you'd have to go back to 2001 for that. I'd put him in the #1 slot given how long he's been out. Seeing how Kurt Busch ran Indy I have a feeling that NASCAR may have the superior drivers at this point.