Grand Prix Rejects

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/140261/vandoorne-will-be-mercedes-f1-simulator-driver

Call me an idiot, but does being a 'simulator driver' mean literally anything? Vandoorne will be Mercedes' 'simulator driver' in 2019, whatever that means. It's like the motorsport equivalent of music venues not paying musicians and instead claiming they're getting 'exposure' - not that I have a chip on my shoulder or anything. Other than having something to put on his CV after this season, I do still believe we won't see Stoffel back in an F1 car, even if Bottas were to retire mid-season or something. Famous last words, of course...

Odd that Anthony Davidson isn't doing it any more.

Great news about Kubica. Truly a good news story - let's hope he and Russell can provide some further good news stories for Williams next year.

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/140261/vandoorne-will-be-mercedes-f1-simulator-driver

Call me an idiot, but does being a 'simulator driver' mean literally anything? Vandoorne will be Mercedes' 'simulator driver' in 2019, whatever that means. It's like the motorsport equivalent of music venues not paying musicians and instead claiming they're getting 'exposure' - not that I have a chip on my shoulder or anything. Other than having something to put on his CV after this season, I do still believe we won't see Stoffel back in an F1 car, even if Bottas were to retire mid-season or something. Famous last words, of course...

Well, a similar gig worked very well for Kvyat and well for Vergne - I guess it's a way for drivers to "stay around" and keep their connections afloat...and I don't think they're doing it for free either. At the very least, their sponsors are footing the bill (something every team welcomes nowadays)

Stoffel has been left without a drive, but has a great deal of experience with both Hondas and Renaults, and thus can provide valuable input on the differences between those engines and the Mercedes PU (which is something neither Lewis nor Valtteri can do). And someone whose main job is clocking laps in the simulator is more valuable than you may think...

And the Kubica story grinds on. Clearly he's now as desperate as Williams are.

Don't forget that Robert Kubica made his F1 debut replacing Jacques Villeneuve, who made his debut replacing David Coulthard, who made his debut replacing... AYRTON SENNA. That tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

(Of course, Ayrton Senna himself made his debut replacing the F1 legend, Derek Warwick...)

Waris wrote:Don't forget that Robert Kubica made his F1 debut replacing Jacques Villeneuve, who made his debut replacing David Coulthard, who made his debut replacing... AYRTON SENNA. That tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

(Of course, Ayrton Senna himself made his debut replacing the F1 legend, Derek Warwick...)

And remember Vettel made his debut replacing Kubica after his Montreal crash.

pi314159 wrote:

Waris wrote:Don't forget that Robert Kubica made his F1 debut replacing Jacques Villeneuve, who made his debut replacing David Coulthard, who made his debut replacing... AYRTON SENNA. That tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

(Of course, Ayrton Senna himself made his debut replacing the F1 legend, Derek Warwick...)

And remember Vettel made his debut replacing Kubica after his Montreal crash.

Whilst the next driver who made his debut at Renault after Kubica drove there was of course the legend that is Jolyon Palmer! (not counting the non-debuting drivers in between) I'm cheating, but Jolyon's worth it.

This wrote:Whilst the next driver who made his debut at Renault after Kubica drove there was of course the legend that is Jolyon Palmer! (not counting the non-debuting drivers in between) I'm cheating, but Jolyon's worth it.

You missed a trick there Renault were smart, and knew the only driver around capable of living up to the legend of Kubica was of course Quick Nick!

Rob Dylan wrote:

This wrote:Whilst the next driver who made his debut at Renault after Kubica drove there was of course the legend that is Jolyon Palmer! (not counting the non-debuting drivers in between) I'm cheating, but Jolyon's worth it.

You missed a trick there Renault were smart, and knew the only driver around capable of living up to the legend of Kubica was of course Quick Nick!

Well, over the course of their time together at BMW-Sauber, Heidfeld did actually finish ahead of Kubica more often than Kubica managed to beat Heidfeld; Heidfeld did also score more points than Kubica managed and ultimately beat him twice in the WDC as well.

https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1 ... 8894400512

There you go, the first thai on the grid since Prince Bira

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1067096428894400512

There you go, the first thai on the grid since Prince Bira

Too bad Toro Rosso's just gonna chew him up and spit him out like they've done with Hartley. Albon deserves better.

I dunno - - if he beats Kvyat whom Red Bull still seems to have faith with, and Gasly fails to impress "sufficiently" ; Albon might just get a lucky break with his timing...

giraurd wrote:I dunno - - if he beats Kvyat whom Red Bull still seems to have faith with, and Gasly fails to impress "sufficiently" ; Albon might just get a lucky break with his timing...

It would say something about the Red Bull young driver programme, not to mention their driver selection processes, if those circumstances were to occur.

I could see Kvyat (a driver of proven ability) stepping in for Gasly if he proves not up to the job (which I doubt - he always seemed to out perform the TR). But surely any serious F1 WCC contender team needs a second championship-capable driver? If only there were a recently unemployed former World Champion available at the drop of a hat...

This silly season really is crazy. I swear I've heard about a tonne of different signings which apparently never happened. Albon going to Toro Rosso I thought had been confirmed months ago shows how much I know

IceG wrote:If only there were a recently unemployed former World Champion available at the drop of a hat...

Unfortunately Stoffel has been nabbed by the Formula E series already

Rob Dylan wrote:This silly season really is crazy. I swear I've heard about a tonne of different signings which apparently never happened. Albon going to Toro Rosso I thought had been confirmed months ago shows how much I know

IceG wrote:If only there were a recently unemployed former World Champion available at the drop of a hat...

Unfortunately Stoffel has been nabbed by the Formula E series already

You never know, Alan Jones might attempt to make another comeback...

Delighted for Albon, really hope the guy can prove he's got what it takes.

It's one hell of a grid next season...

mario wrote:

Rob Dylan wrote:

This wrote:Whilst the next driver who made his debut at Renault after Kubica drove there was of course the legend that is Jolyon Palmer! (not counting the non-debuting drivers in between) I'm cheating, but Jolyon's worth it.

You missed a trick there Renault were smart, and knew the only driver around capable of living up to the legend of Kubica was of course Quick Nick!

Well, over the course of their time together at BMW-Sauber, Heidfeld did actually finish ahead of Kubica more often than Kubica managed to beat Heidfeld; Heidfeld did also score more points than Kubica managed and ultimately beat him twice in the WDC as well.

.....slightly bored by this now.....

The obvious has been confirmed, still going to stick it here as it is part of the 2019 silly season. Stroll to Force India

http://africa.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/25 ... india-2019

Pacific 777 wrote:Stroll to Force India

Water is wet

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:

Pacific 777 wrote:Stroll to Force India

Water is wet

Although can something that is liquid in nature be considered “wet”? [/PhilosopherForti]

FortiWinks wrote:

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:

Pacific 777 wrote:Stroll to Force India

Water is wet

Although can something that is liquid in nature be considered “wet”? [/PhilosopherForti]

Technically, water is not wet. Water makes things wet, but in itself is not a wet object. The definition of “wet” is “covered or saturated with water or another liquid”. Wetness is the effect that water has on things.

Faustus wrote:Technically, water is not wet. Water makes things wet, but in itself is not a wet object. The definition of “wet” is “covered or saturated with water or another liquid”. Wetness is the effect that water has on things.

Although, interestingly, it is a reaction with water that allows superglue to 'dry'...

And both ice and water are both slippery and sticky. Water sticks to your skin after swimming or bathing, hence why you need to towel yourself dry, plus you can get your tongue to stick to an ice lolly or frozen lamp-post (don't try this at home, because why would you have a lamp-post at home?).

How long is it going to be before Williams comes out to say that Kubica didn't get the drive because of the PKN Orlen deal, it was all synergistic and a coincidence and an interesting opportunity and he's not really a pay driver at all and he was always our first choice and and and...

Faustus wrote:How long is it going to be before Williams comes out to say that Kubica didn't get the drive because of the PKN Orlen deal, it was all synergistic and a coincidence and an interesting opportunity and he's not really a pay driver at all and he was always our first choice and and and...

Do they even need to try and defend the decision?

Most of the press and the fan base seem to be so in love with the romantic notion of Kubica returning to the sport that very few seem to be even mentioning the PKN Orlen. Equally, from the experience that Joe Saward had, where he did question whether Kubica was the best driver for Williams and did ask whether Kubica's sponsorship was the most decisive factor and ended up on the end of some pretty nasty abuse, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few journalists don't want to raise the question because of what happened to him.

mario wrote:

Faustus wrote:How long is it going to be before Williams comes out to say that Kubica didn't get the drive because of the PKN Orlen deal, it was all synergistic and a coincidence and an interesting opportunity and he's not really a pay driver at all and he was always our first choice and and and...

Do they even need to try and defend the decision?

Most of the press and the fan base seem to be so in love with the romantic notion of Kubica returning to the sport that very few seem to be even mentioning the PKN Orlen. Equally, from the experience that Joe Saward had, where he did question whether Kubica was the best driver for Williams and did ask whether Kubica's sponsorship was the most decisive factor and ended up on the end of some pretty nasty abuse, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few journalists don't want to raise the question because of what happened to him.

I don't notice it at all. Maybe I'm missing the hordes of fanboys because I'm not reading about F1 on twitter or other social media - but at least on various forums and reddit the news were received with people being happy for the guy but also healthy skepticism about his abilities being up to the 2010 level & with the vast majority entirely recognizing that Kubica's money was a large factor of the deal (though most likely not the *only* decisive, since Sirotkin was still reportedly ready to bring a bunch of money to Williams).

As for Saward - he spent the entire year dismissing Robert's chances to ever race an F1 car, and then when the confirmation came anyway, Joe attacked the mysterious (quoted) "Kubica fan boys" in his writings, for merely disagreeing with his interpretation that it was *only* RK's money that bought him the seat. Now I'm not saying anyone deserves straight up abuse - but with that unprofessional level of rhethoric, what did Saward expect...

giraurd wrote:

mario wrote:

Faustus wrote:How long is it going to be before Williams comes out to say that Kubica didn't get the drive because of the PKN Orlen deal, it was all synergistic and a coincidence and an interesting opportunity and he's not really a pay driver at all and he was always our first choice and and and...

Do they even need to try and defend the decision?

Most of the press and the fan base seem to be so in love with the romantic notion of Kubica returning to the sport that very few seem to be even mentioning the PKN Orlen. Equally, from the experience that Joe Saward had, where he did question whether Kubica was the best driver for Williams and did ask whether Kubica's sponsorship was the most decisive factor and ended up on the end of some pretty nasty abuse, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few journalists don't want to raise the question because of what happened to him.

I don't notice it at all. Maybe I'm missing the hordes of fanboys because I'm not reading about F1 on twitter or other social media - but at least on various forums and reddit the news were received with people being happy for the guy but also healthy skepticism about his abilities being up to the 2010 level & with the vast majority entirely recognizing that Kubica's money was a large factor of the deal (though most likely not the *only* decisive, since Sirotkin was still reportedly ready to bring a bunch of money to Williams).

As for Saward - he spent the entire year dismissing Robert's chances to ever race an F1 car, and then when the confirmation came anyway, Joe attacked the mysterious (quoted) "Kubica fan boys" in his writings, for merely disagreeing with his interpretation that it was *only* RK's money that bought him the seat. Now I'm not saying anyone deserves straight up abuse - but with that unprofessional level of rhethoric, what did Saward expect...

I think another factor is that Williams DESPERATELY needs some kind of feel-good story, after their last couple of seasons. Also if he turns out to be not up to F1 standards, his fans can say "of course he didn't get out of Q1 in all but one of the races, look at the car he's driving", thus leaving the illusions of his capabilities intact.

giraurd wrote:

mario wrote:

Faustus wrote:How long is it going to be before Williams comes out to say that Kubica didn't get the drive because of the PKN Orlen deal, it was all synergistic and a coincidence and an interesting opportunity and he's not really a pay driver at all and he was always our first choice and and and...

Do they even need to try and defend the decision?

Most of the press and the fan base seem to be so in love with the romantic notion of Kubica returning to the sport that very few seem to be even mentioning the PKN Orlen. Equally, from the experience that Joe Saward had, where he did question whether Kubica was the best driver for Williams and did ask whether Kubica's sponsorship was the most decisive factor and ended up on the end of some pretty nasty abuse, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few journalists don't want to raise the question because of what happened to him.

I don't notice it at all. Maybe I'm missing the hordes of fanboys because I'm not reading about F1 on twitter or other social media - but at least on various forums and reddit the news were received with people being happy for the guy but also healthy skepticism about his abilities being up to the 2010 level & with the vast majority entirely recognizing that Kubica's money was a large factor of the deal (though most likely not the *only* decisive, since Sirotkin was still reportedly ready to bring a bunch of money to Williams).

As for Saward - he spent the entire year dismissing Robert's chances to ever race an F1 car, and then when the confirmation came anyway, Joe attacked the mysterious (quoted) "Kubica fan boys" in his writings, for merely disagreeing with his interpretation that it was *only* RK's money that bought him the seat. Now I'm not saying anyone deserves straight up abuse - but with that unprofessional level of rhethoric, what did Saward expect...

I'll agree that it is all too true that quite a few of his problems are self inflicted due to his rather smug and antagonistic attitude towards the fan base. Still, it does seem to me to be the case that the media coverage has mainly played up the heroic aspects and tended to gloss over some of the questions that some in the fan base have been asking.

Fetzie wrote:I think another factor is that Williams DESPERATELY needs some kind of feel-good story, after their last couple of seasons. Also if he turns out to be not up to F1 standards, his fans can say "of course he didn't get out of Q1 in all but one of the races, look at the car he's driving", thus leaving the illusions of his capabilities intact.

It's probably not just Williams that were looking for that sort of feel-good story, as I suspect that Liberty Media were looking for that sort of story as well. The honeymoon period for them seems to have worn off and the fan base seems to be turning on the people whom they used to praise for driving Bernie out, and there was something of a sense of fatigue and resignation this year as the championship battle fizzled out so quickly.

The return of Kubica is, from their point of view, potentially useful as a way of distracting from some of the criticism they've had from fans and the media and helped to create positive headlines about the sport at a time when there are still doubts over whether they can start pushing viewing figures back up again. I do wonder if the fact that the news first leaked from the official F1 site from a video trailer which they had produced announcing Kubica's return to the sport was entirely accidental, or whether they might have had an interest in "mistakenly" leaving that clip up there.

So, according to Autosport, the team that earlier this season was known as Force India and that became Racing Point Force India, and is currently known on the 2019 entry list as Racing Point, will be known by yet another name by the Australian Grand Prix, as Racing Point is just a placeholder name, and to which Lawrence Stroll has no particular feelings.

So I wonder what The Team Formerly Known As Jordan, Spyker, Midland, Force India, Racing Point Force India And Currently Known As Racing Point (TTFKAJSMFIRPFIACKARP) will be called next?

I suggest Strolling Point

Beat that!

$tro££ Point

dr-baker wrote:So I wonder what The Team Formerly Known As Jordan, Spyker, Midland, Force India, Racing Point Force India And Currently Known As Racing Point (TTFKAJSMFIRPFIACKARP) will be called next?

You forgot the 3 races that it was called 'Spyker MF1'

This wrote:

dr-baker wrote:So I wonder what The Team Formerly Known As Jordan, Spyker, Midland, Force India, Racing Point Force India And Currently Known As Racing Point (TTFKAJSMFIRPFIACKARP) will be called next?

You forgot the 3 races that it was called 'Spyker MF1'

Yeah, I thought that acronym wasn't quite long enough yet!

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1067096428894400512

There you go, the first thai on the grid since Prince Bira

THAI GRAND PRIX WHEN??

Waris wrote:

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1067096428894400512

There you go, the first thai on the grid since Prince Bira

THAI GRAND PRIX WHEN??

But there's Vietnam already!

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:

Waris wrote:THAI GRAND PRIX WHEN??

But there's Vietnam already!

Two Southeast Asian GPs enter, one GP leaves!

oh crap that actually happened i'm so sorry

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/140541/f1-grid-penalty-process-tweaked-for-2019

Positive changes!

So they're changing the penalty rules, for the Honda-engined folks mostly, for those who have super-huge grid penalties. Previously it happened that whoever had the problem first was advantaged later by qualifying ahead of people who took the penalty later. But now, 15 place-penalties or so and up, they're having it that everyone is seen by the FiA to be on an equal time, and so they'll have to qualify if they want to be ahead of the other penalty folks.

Seems like a better way of doing it to me at least

Rob Dylan wrote:Seems like a better way of doing it to me at least

Without a doubt!

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:

Waris wrote:

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:https://twitter.com/alex_albon/status/1067096428894400512

There you go, the first thai on the grid since Prince Bira

THAI GRAND PRIX WHEN??

But there's Vietnam already!

Well, Thailand has a circuit (Buriram) that I quite like and that if I'm not mistaken is FIA Grade 1, or Grade 1T, and has hosted several races in national and international series... and I believe it's also not designed by Hermann Tilke, which seems to be a plus...

Waris wrote:Well, Thailand has a circuit (Buriram) that I quite like and that if I'm not mistaken is FIA Grade 1, or Grade 1T, and has hosted several races in national and international series... and I believe it's also not designed by Hermann Tilke, which seems to be a plus...

May need to rethink that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_International_Circuit

FortiWinks wrote:

Waris wrote:Well, Thailand has a circuit (Buriram) that I quite like and that if I'm not mistaken is FIA Grade 1, or Grade 1T, and has hosted several races in national and international series... and I believe it's also not designed by Hermann Tilke, which seems to be a plus...

May need to rethink that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_International_Circuit

Darnit, I saw that soon after I posted. As far as Tilkedromes go though, this is uncharacteristically good (IMHO). There are no 90-degree corners and there's only one truly slow corner, everything else is pretty fast and flowing.