2024 discussion thread

[sswishbone]

I don't think anyone called Colapinto, huge curveball there

[mario]

Sargent gone!

https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/fd43d9 ... -statement

US driver fired before two USA rounds ... that will go down well

Sargent being fired was not unexpected, but his replacement certainly was. I imagine, like Logan, he brings some money.

Exactly. Franco who? I would have gone with Liam Lawson myself, he seemed to prove himself as capable last year. More so than Schumacher when he was at Haas.

It's true that few thought that he'd get the seat, but it may be that Williams didn't have an alternative driver to pick to Colapinto. For example, it's been suggested that Williams did look at the option of using Lawson, but Red Bull were unwilling to release him.

[sswishbone]

I've also heard that Toto refused Kimi Antonelli as not to disturb his testing with Mercedes... so Kimi to Merc also confirmed?

[Ataxia]

Yes, so Lawson was mooted but Red Bull wanted to keep him on a leash just in case it needed him back as a reserve. Williams didn't want that.

Vowles doesn't rate Schumacher, Wolff tried to convince him with some simulator data over the off-season but it was no better than Sargeant's. Plus, why would you take a renowned car-breaker to replace...well, you know.

Colapinto has been on the Williams Academy for a little bit, he's quick, and suggestions that he's coming with a bit of money would always sweeten the pot.

I've also heard that Toto refused Kimi Antonelli as not to disturb his testing with Mercedes... so Kimi to Merc also confirmed?

It's been as good as done for a while now, they're just waiting for the right time. Only real hold-up was talks with Verstappen, but both sides agreed not to pursue a deal for 2025.

[Wallio]

I've also heard that Toto refused Kimi Antonelli as not to disturb his testing with Mercedes... so Kimi to Merc also confirmed?

Toto actually "accidentally" confirmed it in an interview this weekend.

[dr-baker]

I’ve just looked on Wikipedia that Jamie Chadwick has been the longest serving of the current Williams Driver Academy, and one of only two to have won any titles whilst being on the programme (and the only one to have won multiple titles). I wonder though how well she would cope in F1, whether she would actually get a super licence, and whether her focus is now on F1 or IndyCar?

[mario]

I've also heard that Toto refused Kimi Antonelli as not to disturb his testing with Mercedes... so Kimi to Merc also confirmed?

It's been as good as done for a while now, they're just waiting for the right time. Only real hold-up was talks with Verstappen, but both sides agreed not to pursue a deal for 2025.

It seems that most people felt that it was more of a case of when, rather than if, Wolff would announce a deal with Antonelli - Wolff's not exactly been subtle about his enthusiasm for him.

Mind you, it does raise the question about Russell's long place position within the team if Wolff has also been approaching Verstappen, given he presumably also wants Antonelli for the long term - Russell's current contract expires at the end of 2025.

[mario]

On another note, it sounds as if there is growing discontent at the news that Renault is looking at potentially axing their engine development programme.

Firstly, there was the angry letter that was sent by the Social and Economic Council of Alpine employees in Viry-Chatillon (Conseil Social et Economique) to multiple media outlets, where they attacked de Meo for "betraying" his staff and complaining that "We do not understand what justifies killing this elite entity that is the Viry-Chatillon site and betraying its legend and its DNA by grafting a Mercedes heart into our F1 Alpine [car]." and complained the decision "threatens the international influence of French industrial excellence". https://racingnews365.com/renault-staff ... ne-project

Now, it would appear that the staff are planning to take things further by organising a protest at the Italian GP, whilst also organising a strike at the factory in Viry. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... y3gnp5nvpo

All of these moves seem to highlight just how dysfunctional the Alpine team seems to be - the team in Enstone have not been happy with the performance of the power units, whilst the team in Viry are equally quick to blame the team in Enstone.

[CoopsII]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formu ... vnn70veo

Well, I was Today years old when I learned that Adrian Newey, the most famous and successful F1 designer ever, the guy who can see and bend air, had chosen Eddie bloody Jordan as his manager

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formu ... vnn70veo

Well, I was Today years old when I learned that Adrian Newey, the most famous and successful F1 designer ever, the guy who can see and bend air, had chosen Eddie bloody Jordan as his manager

It was a little earlier in the summer for me, but yeah... would not have guessed that one.

[dr-baker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formu ... vnn70veo

Well, I was Today years old when I learned that Adrian Newey, the most famous and successful F1 designer ever, the guy who can see and bend air, had chosen Eddie bloody Jordan as his manager

It was a little earlier in the summer for me, but yeah... would not have guessed that one.

And Adrian Newey is most likely to end up at…

Aston Martin
Racing Point
Racing Point Force India
Force India
Spyker
Midland
JORDAN!!!

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formu ... vnn70veo

Well, I was Today years old when I learned that Adrian Newey, the most famous and successful F1 designer ever, the guy who can see and bend air, had chosen Eddie bloody Jordan as his manager

It was a little earlier in the summer for me, but yeah... would not have guessed that one.

And Adrian Newey is most likely to end up at…

Aston Martin
Racing Point
Racing Point Force India
Force India
Spyker
Midland
JORDAN!!!

Eddie finally built his championship contender!

[mario]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formu ... vnn70veo

Well, I was Today years old when I learned that Adrian Newey, the most famous and successful F1 designer ever, the guy who can see and bend air, had chosen Eddie bloody Jordan as his manager

It was a little earlier in the summer for me, but yeah... would not have guessed that one.

I've seen it suggested that Eddie Jordan has only recently taken up that role, which is probably why you've not heard about it before.

Red Bull technically had a contract with Newey's company (Racing Services Ltd) for his design services, rather than employing him directly: because of that, it seems that Newey largely represented himself until recently.

Newey seems to have the hired Eddie Jordan on the grounds that Eddie still has quite a few important contacts within the sport, has quite a bit of experience in dealing with contract law and was a canny negotiator when it came to getting him out of his contract early.

[CoopsII]

Well, big Eddie's got Newey signed up for Aston Martin so, I guess, congrats to Lance Stroll for winning the 2029 F1 Drivers Championship.

See, this is what happens when you feel guilty about not playing with your kids when they're little.

[dr-baker]

Well, big Eddie's got Newey signed up for Aston Martin so, I guess, congrats to Lance Stroll for winning the 2029 F1 Drivers Championship.

See, this is what happens when you feel guilty about not playing with your kids when they're little.

You mean Lance Stroll’s teammate, surely?! Has Lance ever beaten his teammate in the WDC over the course of a season? Unless he gets Logan Sargeant as a teammate?

[CoopsII]

You mean Lance Stroll’s teammate, surely?! Has Lance ever beaten his teammate in the WDC over the course of a season? Unless he gets Logan Sargeant as a teammate?

No matey, old Lozza Stroll has been pissing the dollars away for too long to not get the Stroll surname on that trophy. If a championship winning car materialises whoever Stroll Jr has as a teammate will have to suck it up and be the team player.

By the way, it's lovely to interact with you again. I hope you're well you burning hunk of love, you

[Har1MAS1415]

Well, big Eddie's got Newey signed up for Aston Martin so, I guess, congrats to Lance Stroll for winning the 2029 F1 Drivers Championship.

See, this is what happens when you feel guilty about not playing with your kids when they're little.

You mean Lance Stroll’s teammate, surely?! Has Lance ever beaten his teammate in the WDC over the course of a season? Unless he gets Logan Sargeant as a teammate?

2018: 6-1 in his favour against Sergey Sirotkin.

[dr-baker]

By the way, it's lovely to interact with you again. I hope you're well you burning hunk of love, you

It's rather spiffing to have you here too, don't cha know.

You mean Lance Stroll’s teammate, surely?! Has Lance ever beaten his teammate in the WDC over the course of a season? Unless he gets Logan Sargeant as a teammate?

2018: 6-1 in his favour against Sergey Sirotkin.

I stand corrected. But Sergey is hardly in the same league as Barrichello, hardly a ringing endorsement by beating him, is it?

[Har1MAS1415]

By the way, it's lovely to interact with you again. I hope you're well you burning hunk of love, you

It's rather spiffing to have you here too, don't cha know.

You mean Lance Stroll’s teammate, surely?! Has Lance ever beaten his teammate in the WDC over the course of a season? Unless he gets Logan Sargeant as a teammate?

2018: 6-1 in his favour against Sergey Sirotkin.

I stand corrected. But Sergey is hardly in the same league as Barrichello, hardly a ringing endorsement by beating him, is it?

Never said it was.

[Jarvis]

Max Verstappen has led 468 laps this season so far. He is 322 laps ahead of second-placed Lando Norris who led 146 laps so far.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Max Verstappen has led 468 laps this season so far. He is 322 laps ahead of second-placed Lando Norris who led 146 laps so far.

Honestly, I don’t think Lando will catch him for the drivers championship. McLaren should concentrate on the constructors, that’s where the prize money is decided.

[mario]

Max Verstappen has led 468 laps this season so far. He is 322 laps ahead of second-placed Lando Norris who led 146 laps so far.

Honestly, I don’t think Lando will catch him for the drivers championship. McLaren should concentrate on the constructors, that’s where the prize money is decided.

It's a situation where you feel that Red Bull and McLaren are after different things - Horner has said previously that they were happy to give up the WCC in 2021 in return for getting the WDC that year, since they felt that, whilst the WCC might be where the prize money was decided, they felt that the prestige and popular acclaim for winning the WDC was worth far more to them. I suspect a similar attitude would prevail this year as well - Red Bull probably would be happy to give up the WCC if Verstappen wins the WDC instead.

That said, there does seem to be an attitude that McLaren are consistently failing to maximise the performance of their car and are making it far harder for themselves to win either title than they should. They might still win the WCC simply because Piastri is a stronger driver than Perez, but there will be many feeling they really should already have taken the lead in that title if they and their drivers didn't keep missing opportunities.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Max Verstappen has led 468 laps this season so far. He is 322 laps ahead of second-placed Lando Norris who led 146 laps so far.

Honestly, I don’t think Lando will catch him for the drivers championship. McLaren should concentrate on the constructors, that’s where the prize money is decided.

It's a situation where you feel that Red Bull and McLaren are after different things - Horner has said previously that they were happy to give up the WCC in 2021 in return for getting the WDC that year, since they felt that, whilst the WCC might be where the prize money was decided, they felt that the prestige and popular acclaim for winning the WDC was worth far more to them. I suspect a similar attitude would prevail this year as well - Red Bull probably would be happy to give up the WCC if Verstappen wins the WDC instead.

That said, there does seem to be an attitude that McLaren are consistently failing to maximise the performance of their car and are making it far harder for themselves to win either title than they should. They might still win the WCC simply because Piastri is a stronger driver than Perez, but there will be many feeling they really should already have taken the lead in that title if they and their drivers didn't keep missing opportunities.

I agree that Red Bull are always more willing to sacrifice the WCC for the WDC. It is worth more to them, even if not in monetary income. Yes, if McLaren had played their cards right more often, they might be in the lead in the WCC already. That said, I don't think they have been quite so far ahead in pace as some seem to think. I do think they are now the clear fastest, but I think it was more of a toss-up until pretty recently. It just so happened that the other car in the "toss-up" was a combination of three different cars, so there hasn't been a clear equal best and there is not now a clear number 2.

I think this will work in their favor in the WCC though, because the other three teams will often be taking points off each other.

[mario]

Honestly, I don’t think Lando will catch him for the drivers championship. McLaren should concentrate on the constructors, that’s where the prize money is decided.

It's a situation where you feel that Red Bull and McLaren are after different things - Horner has said previously that they were happy to give up the WCC in 2021 in return for getting the WDC that year, since they felt that, whilst the WCC might be where the prize money was decided, they felt that the prestige and popular acclaim for winning the WDC was worth far more to them. I suspect a similar attitude would prevail this year as well - Red Bull probably would be happy to give up the WCC if Verstappen wins the WDC instead.

That said, there does seem to be an attitude that McLaren are consistently failing to maximise the performance of their car and are making it far harder for themselves to win either title than they should. They might still win the WCC simply because Piastri is a stronger driver than Perez, but there will be many feeling they really should already have taken the lead in that title if they and their drivers didn't keep missing opportunities.

I agree that Red Bull are always more willing to sacrifice the WCC for the WDC. It is worth more to them, even if not in monetary income. Yes, if McLaren had played their cards right more often, they might be in the lead in the WCC already. That said, I don't think they have been quite so far ahead in pace as some seem to think. I do think they are now the clear fastest, but I think it was more of a toss-up until pretty recently. It just so happened that the other car in the "toss-up" was a combination of three different cars, so there hasn't been a clear equal best and there is not now a clear number 2.

I think this will work in their favor in the WCC though, because the other three teams will often be taking points off each other.

I do agree that McLaren's potential performance advantage was being exaggerated in some races, and even now it's still somewhat marginal. I guess it also could cut both ways when it comes to the question of other teams taking points off each other, because there are also scenarios where those other teams might also be taking more points off McLaren than they do from Verstappen.

Be that as it may, it sounds as if McLaren are now making some moves towards giving Norris greater support, although it sounds like it's more through strategy instead. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... gen1vegx7o

On a different note, we've also had confirmation of something that seemed to be a bit of an open secret for a while, which is the news that Newey has decided to sign for Aston Martin. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... rdgl74z5eo

On the one hand, we've had people joking that Alonso is finally catching a break and at a team at the right time - on the other hand, as some have noted, you do wonder if Aston Martin, which has been spending heavily on big names, might end up being a bit top heavy as a result. I do wonder if the move really will work out as well as some might be hoping it does, or if it ends up being a bit of an inefficient set up.

Added to that, you do have to wonder if, for all those hyping up an Alonso challenge in 2026, what sort of performance Alonso could put in by 2026. He is going to be 45 in 2026, and it's already rare for drivers to still be racing in F1 at that age - the most recent driver to compete in an F1 race aged 45 or over was Graham Hill in 1975, whilst the most recent driver to win a race aged 45 or older was Fangio in 1957.

Much as people praise him, and much as the spirit might still be willing, can Alonso defy ageing in a way that very few others have been able to do over the years? There has been speculation that Lance Stroll might be moved out of his seat and over into Aston Martin's WEC programme instead, so it's also quite plausible that Alonso might find himself paired with a much tougher driver to beat too.

[Paul Hayes]

Several very impressive drives today - Piastri of course, but the newcomers Colapinto and Bearman too. I almost half-wonder whether Haas might be tempted to pay Magnussen off for the rest of the season, but they might not be able to afford to.

Norris will be relieved he still managed to shave a bit off the championship gap to Verstappen, but given the latter's comparative lack of pace today will still I expect be ruing what happened yesterday and how much bigger a chunk he could have taken out of that lead.

[sswishbone]

So Mclaren have been accused of rule breaking. Apparently their rear wing flexes in such a way that it creates a mini DRS under the main opening flap

[Paul Hayes]

I enjoyed Ricciardo doing his "rage, rage against the dying of the light" bit at the end there.

[CoopsII]

I enjoyed Ricciardo doing his "rage, rage against the dying of the light" bit at the end there.

Genuinely surprised McLaren haven't complained about that to be honest. Instructing your B team to nick a point off your championship rivals? Don't get me wrong, I really don't care either way and I can't remember what the current regs on team orders are, but teams are usually pretty quick to complain about stuff like that

[mario]

I enjoyed Ricciardo doing his "rage, rage against the dying of the light" bit at the end there.

Genuinely surprised McLaren haven't complained about that to be honest. Instructing your B team to nick a point off your championship rivals? Don't get me wrong, I really don't care either way and I can't remember what the current regs on team orders are, but teams are usually pretty quick to complain about stuff like that.

Given the stir that had been created around McLaren's rear wing, they probably don't want to try and stir too much up right now. Added to that, if Ricciardo really is being replaced, RB could say something like "we wanted Ricciardo to go out with at least something of note after a difficult weekend" and give themselves a level of plausible deniability, even if everyone strongly suspects there was a different motivation.

[rachel1990]

I mean if Mclaren lose the drivers title by a point, I don't think anyone is going to look at this race as the reason they lost it. Maybe look at the poor start of the season and the poor strategy calls in Britain and Spain

[dr-baker]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10657168/
McLaren would like an investigation into the fastest lap situation.

[Har1MAS1415]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10657168/
McLaren would like an investigation into the fastest lap situation.

They can't just take Danny Ric's last hurrah in F1 away like that!

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I mean if Mclaren lose the drivers title by a point, I don't think anyone is going to look at this race as the reason they lost it. Maybe look at the poor start of the season and the poor strategy calls in Britain and Spain

Agreed, especially the bolded part.

[Har1MAS1415]

I mean if Mclaren lose the drivers title by a point, I don't think anyone is going to look at this race as the reason they lost it. Maybe look at the poor start of the season and the poor strategy calls in Britain and Spain

Agreed, especially the bolded part.

2005 all over again, minus the horrendous unreliability this time, of course.

[Jarvis]

Ferrari team principal Fred Vasseur said the upgrade for the car at the United States Grand Prix will be the last of the season as they focus on next year's model.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... /10658544/

[IceG]

Seems that the open secret about the end of Renault engines is now public:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... kdzk9z248o

Probably a logical conclusion for a mass non-luxury brand that needs to get its production base over to EVs. Shame for the folk at Viry who have achieved great results in so many classes.

But F1 needs more engine manufacturers otherwise the power unit might as well be a standardised part*. Ferrari vs. Mercedes with Honda playing shy every few years is not stable or good for the sport.

Perhaps Audi will break the mould and be competitive from day one winning the WCC in 2026, and getting first and second in the WDC with Sergeant and Stroll?


* In an alternative world, a standardised ICE with manufacturers given a free hand over the electrical elements might be a good thing.

[dr-baker]

* In an alternative world, a standardised ICE with manufacturers given a free hand over the electrical elements might be a good thing.

Which would make F1 just a Formula E variant?

[IceG]

* In an alternative world, a standardised ICE with manufacturers given a free hand over the electrical elements might be a good thing.

Which would make F1 just a Formula E variant?

Or is Formula E just Formula 1 without the ICE, given the number of street circuits that the FIA is foisting on us.

[mario]

Seems that the open secret about the end of Renault engines is now public:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... kdzk9z248o

Probably a logical conclusion for a mass non-luxury brand that needs to get its production base over to EVs. Shame for the folk at Viry who have achieved great results in so many classes.

But F1 needs more engine manufacturers otherwise the power unit might as well be a standardised part*. Ferrari vs. Mercedes with Honda playing shy every few years is not stable or good for the sport.

Perhaps Audi will break the mould and be competitive from day one winning the WCC in 2026, and getting first and second in the WDC with Sergeant and Stroll?


* In an alternative world, a standardised ICE with manufacturers given a free hand over the electrical elements might be a good thing.

It has to be said that recent results for Renault, or where it has been rebadged as Alpine, have been a bit more meagre though. It's true that Renault Sport has had notable successes in the past, but it's harder to think of championships today with multiple competitors where Renault is enjoying major success.

Even quite a few of the championships that they used to organise themselves largely disappeared towards the mid to late 2010s - Formula Renault 3.5 is gone, whilst the 2.0 and 1.6 litre categories have been swallowed up into Formula 3 and Formula 4 championships where Renault is an engine supplier (and, even there, it's using lightly modified versions of their road car engines).

In some ways, we also have the peculiarity that whilst many lambast Renault for moving away from producing engines, those people lambasting them were often the same ones criticising Renault for the performance of their engines and saying that they were the weakest part of their car. Indeed, a few of them were even questioning why Renault were bothering to make their own engines and suggested they should switch - yet criticise them when they did that.

[RAK]

* In an alternative world, a standardised ICE with manufacturers given a free hand over the electrical elements might be a good thing.

Which would make F1 just a Formula E variant?

Or is Formula E just Formula 1 without the ICE, given the number of street circuits that the FIA is foisting on us.

Formula One still has the attribute - for now - of demanding longer endurance for cars, although one wonders whether they'll justify shortening things out of an ostensible concern for the attention span of younger audiences.