Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **29 Dec 2014, 23:13**

tBone wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:I like the first sentence:
Autosport wrote:Max Verstappen is convinced he has enough experience to make a successful jump to Formula 1 with the Toro Rosso team next season.

As if they don't believe him and they feel about it.

So this seems like a good time to bring this up: does anyone here have an idea of how mature he is, from interviews or whatever? Because at 16/17 your maturity can be anything.

The Dutch edition of GPUpdate interviewed him a couple of weeks ago. Not too many remarkable answers there, except he says not to waste a second to mental coaching. He thinks "it's nonsense". He does "not waste a second to it."

This seems a little perky, doesn't it? Is it usual to have mental coaching in motorsports at all?

Only if he turns out to be as weak-minded as Denny Hamlin, which doesn't appear to be the case. It seems to vary from driver to driver -- some have egos so massive they don't need to be coached.

Posted: **30 Dec 2014, 07:54**

Cynon wrote: some have egos so massive they don't need to be coached.

<cough> Di Resta <cough>

Posted: **30 Dec 2014, 09:01**

tBone wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:I like the first sentence:
Autosport wrote:Max Verstappen is convinced he has enough experience to make a successful jump to Formula 1 with the Toro Rosso team next season.

As if they don't believe him and they feel about it.

So this seems like a good time to bring this up: does anyone here have an idea of how mature he is, from interviews or whatever? Because at 16/17 your maturity can be anything.

The Dutch edition of GPUpdate interviewed him a couple of weeks ago. Not too many remarkable answers there, except he says not to waste a second to mental coaching. He thinks "it's nonsense". He does "not waste a second to it."

This seems a little perky, doesn't it? Is it usual to have mental coaching in motorsports at all?

As Cynon says, it depends on the driver - for example, Grosjean initially rejected offers of coaching, but I believe that he later relented and, in his case, it does seem to have made a positive difference.

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 18:43**

Now that we are on the cusp of 2015, how long will it be until hover conversions will be fitted to race cars? That would spice up Formula E a bit, although it would drain the charge on the batteries further. Maybe the FanBoost could allow the car to overtake by hovering/flying over the top of the car in front (hoping that there was not a further car in front so that they could land again).

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 19:50**

dr-baker wrote:Now that we are on the cusp of 2015, how long will it be until hover conversions will be fitted to race cars? That would spice up Formula E a bit, although it would drain the charge on the batteries further. Maybe the FanBoost could allow the car to overtake by hovering/flying over the top of the car in front (hoping that there was not a further car in front so that they could land again).

It'll take about two seconds for the FIA to ban it, but other series... the technology is still young, so it might start with a few seconds every race, and in further years it should be more impressive.

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 20:47**

I believe there were a few trials at the turn of the century. For example, Verstappen's failed attempt on Montoya in Brazil 2001; Ralf Schumacher's attempt at the start of the Australian GP 2002; and of course that race in the late 1990s where each Arrows crashed into the back of a Minardi. Each was an attempt at early development of hover technology. But in each case, either not enough height could be gained, it could not be maintained for long enough, or a combination of the two. In each case, mis-coordination of activation of the system by the driver was ruled out. The tech was quietly banned, but its reintroduction is being considered "for the show".

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 21:22**

dr-baker wrote:Now that we are on the cusp of 2015, how long will it be until hover conversions will be fitted to race cars? That would spice up Formula E a bit, although it would drain the charge on the batteries further. Maybe the FanBoost could allow the car to overtake by hovering/flying over the top of the car in front (hoping that there was not a further car in front so that they could land again).

Racetracks??? where we are going we don't need racetracks!!!!

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 21:23**

dr-baker wrote:I believe there were a few trials at the turn of the century. For example, Verstappen's failed attempt on Montoya in Brazil 2001; Ralf Schumacher's attempt at the start of the Australian GP 2002; and of course that race in the late 1990s where each Arrows crashed into the back of a Minardi. Each was an attempt at early development of hover technology. But in each case, either not enough height could be gained, it could not be maintained for long enough, or a combination of the two. In each case, mis-coordination of activation of the system by the driver was ruled out. The tech was quietly banned, but its reintroduction is being considered "for the show".

1993 Italian gp the minardis tried it....

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 21:32**

It was also trialled in F2 in 2010 by Ricardo Teixeira. Wasn't it banned after Red Bull installed such a system on Mark Webber's car at Valencia the same year, thinking that his past experience with the technology at Le Mans would be useful?

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 22:16**

Simtek wrote:It was also trialled in F2 in 2010 by Ricardo Teixeira. Wasn't it banned after Red Bull installed such a system on Mark Webber's car at Valencia the same year, thinking that his past experience with the technology at Le Mans would be useful?

Probably, as further testing revealed safety and handling issues surrounding the system. Had potential though.

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 22:29**

Press_Play2002 wrote:
Simtek wrote:It was also trialled in F2 in 2010 by Ricardo Teixeira. Wasn't it banned after Red Bull installed such a system on Mark Webber's car at Valencia the same year, thinking that his past experience with the technology at Le Mans would be useful?

Probably, as further testing revealed safety and handling issues surrounding the system. Had potential though.

I think that Mark Webber may be one of the main men behind the scenes, being the system's main test 'pilot'. He is thought to have tried it on both Le Mans and F1 cars, with varying success. I believe that that incident at Valencia remains one of the longest flights with the system in operation. However, the overhead advertising hoarding being hit was one of the unintended consequences that had not been fully considered beforehand, believing that Mark would have chosen to have either flown over or around the sign. As it happens, it drew attention to the sign and the advertiser's name to the spectators moments before being obliterated. This was shown to have had more 'impact' than if it had not been hit.

Posted: **31 Dec 2014, 23:18**

dr-baker wrote:
Press_Play2002 wrote:
Simtek wrote:It was also trialled in F2 in 2010 by Ricardo Teixeira. Wasn't it banned after Red Bull installed such a system on Mark Webber's car at Valencia the same year, thinking that his past experience with the technology at Le Mans would be useful?

Probably, as further testing revealed safety and handling issues surrounding the system. Had potential though.

I think that Mark Webber may be one of the main men behind the scenes, being the system's main test 'pilot'. He is thought to have tried it on both Le Mans and F1 cars, with varying success. I believe that that incident at Valencia remains one of the longest flights with the system in operation. However, the overhead advertising hoarding being hit was one of the unintended consequences that had not been fully considered beforehand, believing that Mark would have chosen to have either flown over or around the sign. As it happens, it drew attention to the sign and the advertiser's name to the spectators moments before being obliterated. This was shown to have had more 'impact' than if it had not been hit.

So if Red Bull were aware of that billboard then the issues stated could have been ironed out post-GP.

Posted: **01 Jan 2015, 10:36**

That's true, and that may explain why Mark crashed on landing, but apparently in testing, many problems still lay with the landing of the car - not one successful landing has yet taken place with a racing car, although they have perfected it for road cars and have had some success with lorries, trucks, vans, coaches, etc. It was the landing that was of greater concern after the Valencia incident - it was believed that it would be the first successful landing without crashing without that sign being in the way.

Posted: **01 Jan 2015, 11:28**

dr-baker wrote:That's true, and that may explain why Mark crashed on landing, but apparently in testing, many problems still lay with the landing of the car - not one successful landing has yet taken place with a racing car, although they have perfected it for road cars and have had some success with lorries, trucks, vans, coaches, etc. It was the landing that was of greater concern after the Valencia incident - it was believed that it would be the first successful landing without crashing without that sign being in the way.

This guy almost did it but broke suspension on landing.

Posted: **01 Jan 2015, 13:53**

It would appear to me that the best possible solution would be to develop a wing that generates lift. Of course, the big problem with such a wing is, as you might guess, less downforce. However, if it were possible to develop a normal wing that generates downforce and somehow make it flip over once the car is in the air so it would generate lift, it just might work, but I'm no engineer.

Posted: **01 Jan 2015, 14:12**

Simtek wrote:It would appear to me that the best possible solution would be to develop a wing that generates lift. Of course, the big problem with such a wing is, as you might guess, less downforce. However, if it were possible to develop a normal wing that generates downforce and somehow make it flip over once the car is in the air so it would generate lift, it just might work, but I'm no engineer.

That just sounds like the next step of DRS.

Posted: **01 Jan 2015, 21:11**

If it wasn't for such limited testing everywhere these days, someone might have time to really work this out instead of a dud test during a race.

Posted: **02 Jan 2015, 16:55**

dr-baker wrote:
Simtek wrote:It would appear to me that the best possible solution would be to develop a wing that generates lift. Of course, the big problem with such a wing is, as you might guess, less downforce. However, if it were possible to develop a normal wing that generates downforce and somehow make it flip over once the car is in the air so it would generate lift, it just might work, but I'm no engineer.

That just sounds like the next step of DRS.

Didn't Alonso have a wing panel flip round in a race....

Posted: **12 Jan 2015, 17:41**

I'm watching the 1997 season race-by-race to fill the off-season gap and I just finished the German GP. My thoughts so far:

1. Olivier Panis. That guy knew how to punch above his weight way better than Kubica or Hulkenberg could. It's a damn shame his season ended when it did :cry:

2. Diversity in results. At some point or another, every team had its day. Yeah, Williams or Michael Schumacher would win the race, but there would always be an underdog who either clawed into or lucked out into a points-paying position. Barrichello's 2nd place at Monaco in the time-bomb that was the Stewart (At this point in the season it's also his only finish!). Mika Salo's 5th place at Monaco in the Tyrrell. Benetton's quiet resurgence after Monaco with Alesi scoring multiple podiums and Alexander Wurz scoring a podium in only his third race, and then Gerhard Berger winning on his return in Germany! Both of the Jordan drivers have earned at least one podium so far (These guys in particular don't seem to have any consistency whatsoever). Prost has been on a downward spiral since Panis' accident. And of course, Minardi and Arrows are nowhere to be seen, although admittedly Arrows has been making incremental progress thus far.

3. What's with all the Damon love? I think I asked this a long time ago, but the British commentators can't quit gushing over Damon Hill even though he's in a car that prefers to blow up rather than compete. When he earned his 6th place finish in Britain they went berserk despite Benetton's double podium. Is this normal for every British driver to receive extraordinary praise despite what they do or don't do? Oh yeah, there was also the pitlane interview in Spain or Canada or something where they told him, "Well don't worry, because you're still leading the sexiest F1 driver competition!" Blech.

4. The #2 drivers. Neither Irvine or Frentzen can get a break. At least Frentzen has a win at San Marino, but otherwise he seems to be getting most of the bad luck while Villeneuve drives away with the win. Irvine's even worse because Schumacher always has to be in front of him to do well. If Irvine's on the podium, that means Schumacher's one place above him. At least he's a team player.

5. Jacques Villeneuve. For this guy it's either win or retire. As of late he seems to be making more mistakes on his own rather than the car failing him (Canada, Germany, almost binning it at the last corner of the race in France) while Schumacher keep plugging away. It really feels like this guy is still wet behind the ears.

6. Michael Schumacher. This guy has been on a hot streak since San Marino, and he's professional in ways that Villeneuve just isn't. When he's winning, he's dominating, and when he's not winning, he's still a force to be reckoned with. Not to mention, he's been much more consistent than perhaps any other driver, which so far is paying huge dividends for him.

7. Reject of the Year thus far has to go to Norberto Fontana. Yeah Shinji Nakano, Ukyo Katayama, and Pedro Diniz are totally anonymous, but in just three races Fontana has made so many rookie mistakes that I'm surprised Sauber hasn't pulled him out yet. I guess dishonorable mention should go to Jarno Trulli for his lackluster performance in the Prost, but at least he scored three points in Germany so it's not all bad.

This season is quite entertaining to watch, and it makes me wish the engines of today were a lot less bulletproof compared to the engines back then, when every race was like a game of Russian roulette with half the field retiring with some problem or another. Maybe that's just me. I really wish more seasons were like this one.

Posted: **12 Jan 2015, 18:57**

Rocks with Salt wrote:3. What's with all the Damon love? I think I asked this a long time ago, but the British commentators can't quit gushing over Damon Hill even though he's in a car that prefers to blow up rather than compete. When he earned his 6th place finish in Britain they went berserk despite Benetton's double podium. Is this normal for every British driver to receive extraordinary praise despite what they do or don't do? Oh yeah, there was also the pitlane interview in Spain or Canada or something where they told him, "Well don't worry, because you're still leading the sexiest F1 driver competition!" Blech.

Brits being a jingoistic bunch? Colour me surprised.

Posted: **12 Jan 2015, 20:07**

Rocks with Salt wrote:1. Olivier Panis. That guy knew how to punch above his weight way better than Kubica... could.

I beg to differ.

Posted: **12 Jan 2015, 23:05**

One weird thing about Britain and motorsports is that if a British person wins in Formula 1, you will damn well hear about it. But if a British person wins in any other racing series its like mentioned once in passing, if that.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 11:48**

Klon wrote:
Rocks with Salt wrote:3. What's with all the Damon love? I think I asked this a long time ago, but the British commentators can't quit gushing over Damon Hill even though he's in a car that prefers to blow up rather than compete. When he earned his 6th place finish in Britain they went berserk despite Benetton's double podium. Is this normal for every British driver to receive extraordinary praise despite what they do or don't do? Oh yeah, there was also the pitlane interview in Spain or Canada or something where they told him, "Well don't worry, because you're still leading the sexiest F1 driver competition!" Blech.

Brits being a jingoistic bunch? Colour me surprised.

I imagine it would have been because of the perceived injustice of having won the WDC the previous year, and Williams still not wishing to renew his contract, thus forcing Damon to a mid-field to backmarker team. As a then-current World Champion, the Brits believed that he should have remained in a front-of-the-pack team,

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 12:26**

Rocks with Salt wrote:3. What's with all the Damon love? I think I asked this a long time ago, but the British commentators can't quit gushing over Damon Hill even though he's in a car that prefers to blow up rather than compete. When he earned his 6th place finish in Britain they went berserk despite Benetton's double podium. Is this normal for every British driver to receive extraordinary praise despite what they do or don't do? Oh yeah, there was also the pitlane interview in Spain or Canada or something where they told him, "Well don't worry, because you're still leading the sexiest F1 driver competition!" Blech.

Are you stupid? Do you really need it explaining why British coverage of a race gushes over the British drivers? I watched the 2005 Monaco GP in Tenerife and, despite not speaking a word of Spanish, it was clear that the Spanish coverage was virtually shooting it's load all over Alonso, despite him finishing 4th.

I understood why.

Because I am not stupid.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 12:51**

CoopsII wrote:
Rocks with Salt wrote:3. What's with all the Damon love? I think I asked this a long time ago, but the British commentators can't quit gushing over Damon Hill even though he's in a car that prefers to blow up rather than compete. When he earned his 6th place finish in Britain they went berserk despite Benetton's double podium. Is this normal for every British driver to receive extraordinary praise despite what they do or don't do? Oh yeah, there was also the pitlane interview in Spain or Canada or something where they told him, "Well don't worry, because you're still leading the sexiest F1 driver competition!" Blech.

Are you stupid? Do you really need it explaining why British coverage of a race gushes over the British drivers? I watched the 2005 Monaco GP in Tenerife and, despite not speaking a word of Spanish, it was clear that the Spanish coverage was virtually shooting it's load all over Alonso, despite him finishing 4th.

I understood why.

Because I am not stupid.

Now, now, is there a need to be this offensive? Admittedly, understanding jingoism in sports is not the hardest challenge, but come on, no need to be this harsh.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 16:52**

CoopsII wrote:Are you stupid? Do you really need it explaining why British coverage of a race gushes over the British drivers? I watched the 2005 Monaco GP in Tenerife and, despite not speaking a word of Spanish, it was clear that the Spanish coverage was virtually shooting it's load all over Alonso, despite him finishing 4th.

I understood why.

Because I am not stupid.

Jeez, dude, I was just making an observation. Calmate tus tetas. Besides, I'm used to watching American coverage, where we don't have a driver to "shoot our load" over.

Okay, I just finished the Hungarian GP, and now I have some sympathy for Hill. That was crushing.

But it is worth asking, how in the world was he ever in a position to dominate the race in the first place? This whole season he has been in a backmarker car that could barely finish a race much less in the points, and now all of a sudden the Arrows (Or rather, Hill in the Arrows) is competitive with Williams and Ferrari? For me, that's like if Adrian Sutil muscled last year's Sauber into the second row in qualifying and then diced with Hamilton and Bottas for the lead! If this were a video game, I'd call hacks. Actually, never mind, that's totally possible in a video game. But my question stands.

Martin Brundle explained it a little bit in the commentary, but in his words it came down to the Arrows crew finally gelling, Hill's prowess on a high-downforce circuit like the Hungaroring, and the fact that it's nearly impossible to pass there. Okay, but I'd imagine there was more to it than that...

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 17:21**

Calm? Consider me permanently placid. And you weren't making an observation, you were asking a question, a question you think you've asked before.

But having spent quite a bit of time in Chandler I know what Arizona can do to you, so have some love and peace.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 17:28**

Where are you watching all of these races

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 17:34**

Rocks with Salt wrote:Jeez, dude, I was just making an observation. Calmate tus tetas. Besides, I'm used to watching American coverage, where we don't have a driver to "shoot our load" over.

"Relaja las tetas"

Sorry, i have to correct

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 17:34**

Rocks with Salt wrote:But it is worth asking, how in the world was he ever in a position to dominate the race in the first place? This whole season he has been in a backmarker car that could barely finish a race much less in the points, and now all of a sudden the Arrows (Or rather, Hill in the Arrows) is competitive with Williams and Ferrari? For me, that's like if Adrian Sutil muscled last year's Sauber into the second row in qualifying and then diced with Hamilton and Bottas for the lead! If this were a video game, I'd call hacks. Actually, never mind, that's totally possible in a video game. But my question stands.

Martin Brundle explained it a little bit in the commentary, but in his words it came down to the Arrows crew finally gelling, Hill's prowess on a high-downforce circuit like the Hungaroring, and the fact that it's nearly impossible to pass there. Okay, but I'd imagine there was more to it than that...

One word: Bridgestone.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 18:03**

Here's a ponder, can we have the Rantbox thread unlocked? It was a good place to have a good vent every now and again. It's not healthy storing up potential rants, you know.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 18:05**

East Londoner wrote:Here's a ponder, can we have the Rantbox thread unlocked? It was a good place to have a good vent every now and again. It's not healthy storing up potential rants, you know.

Considering that I was probably the fool who got it locked in the first place, I'd probably have to be kept away from it.

I do agree with you though, the Rantbox should be brought back.

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 18:20**

Frogfoot9013 wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Here's a ponder, can we have the Rantbox thread unlocked? It was a good place to have a good vent every now and again. It's not healthy storing up potential rants, you know.

Considering that I was probably the fool who got it locked in the first place, I'd probably have to be kept away from it.
I do agree with you though, the Rantbox should be brought back.

You weren't the only one. I took part as well. And Biscione started it

EDIT: And another thing, what about the word association game? That was locked pretty quickly (this has been discussed before and I was left feeling I had something to do with it).

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 18:37**

There you go - Rantbox unlocked. Try not to get it locked again, huh guys?

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 18:44**

Salamander wrote:There you go - Rantbox unlocked. Try not to get it locked again, huh guys?

That reminds me Salamander, why doesn't the word "Moderator" appear under your username in large, friendly letters like it does under mario's, for example?

Posted: **13 Jan 2015, 19:57**

Simtek wrote:
Salamander wrote:There you go - Rantbox unlocked. Try not to get it locked again, huh guys?

That reminds me Salamander, why doesn't the word "Moderator" appear under your username in large, friendly letters like it does under mario's, for example?

Because Biscione forgot to update Salamander' user rank when he started assigning these new shiny badges of office.

Posted: **14 Jan 2015, 07:55**

Nuppiz wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Salamander wrote:There you go - Rantbox unlocked. Try not to get it locked again, huh guys?

That reminds me Salamander, why doesn't the word "Moderator" appear under your username in large, friendly letters like it does under mario's, for example?

Because Biscione forgot to update Salamander' user rank when he started assigning these new shiny badges of office.

The Admin badge is quite intimidating, have you considered something in pastels?

Posted: **14 Jan 2015, 11:36**

CoopsII wrote:The Admin badge is quite intimidating, have you considered something in pastels?

You don't question the admin with that kind of badge

Posted: **14 Jan 2015, 11:54**

Rob Dylan wrote:
CoopsII wrote:The Admin badge is quite intimidating, have you considered something in pastels?

You don't question the admin with that kind of badge

Of course you don't. It's in bathplugging red, goddammit, you don't argue with a red badge!

Posted: **18 Jan 2015, 00:35**

Turkey: an anonymous career... for a racetrack?

Grand Prix Rejects

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