Grand Prix Rejects

Webber celebrations in the podium are the best of recent F1 era.

I want Rosberg to win thanks to double points.

Hear me out!

a) Rosberg is infinitely more likable than Hamilton - if anyone was to get an undeserved championship, I'd rather it be him,
b) He's been generally outclassed recently,
c) The resultant uproar (thanks to point 2) would hopefully get Bernie to scrap double points.

The huge amount of pressure not just from the fans, but for once the actually punditry as well seems to be gradually resonating with those at the top in regards to the struggle of the little teams, and perhaps it could do so with this as well.

Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

watka wrote:Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

Pretty much.

But as I said at the start of the season, I think it needs to cause a little chaos now - before it beds down as just another accepted, awful rule. And when one driver is far more likeable, but has also been quite resolutely outperformed, it's the least painful scenario possible, as far as I can see it anyway.

SgtPepper wrote:

watka wrote:Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

Pretty much.

But as I said at the start of the season, I think it needs to cause a little chaos now - before it beds down as just another accepted, awful rule. And when one driver is far more likeable, but has also been quite resolutely outperformed, it's the least painful scenario possible, as far as I can see it anyway.

Mind you, Bernie has hinted that he is already considering ditching the double points idea (even if the idea is currently written into the draft sporting regulations for 2015), so it is possible that the criticism that has been levelled this season has already made FOM reconsider its plans for 2015.

The other question is whether a victory for Rosberg would actually be seen as a bad thing by FOM. The criticism would be intense, but it would also generate a huge amount of publicity for the sport if Rosberg took the title, and we have seen Bernie often play up the idea "even bad publicity is better than no publicity" - furthermore, Bernie would probably take it as valediction of his idea, saying that it did exactly what it was intended to do (i.e. artificially extend the championship battle).

mario wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:

watka wrote:Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

Pretty much.

But as I said at the start of the season, I think it needs to cause a little chaos now - before it beds down as just another accepted, awful rule. And when one driver is far more likeable, but has also been quite resolutely outperformed, it's the least painful scenario possible, as far as I can see it anyway.

Mind you, Bernie has hinted that he is already considering ditching the double points idea (even if the idea is currently written into the draft sporting regulations for 2015), so it is possible that the criticism that has been levelled this season has already made FOM reconsider its plans for 2015.

The other question is whether a victory for Rosberg would actually be seen as a bad thing by FOM. The criticism would be intense, but it would also generate a huge amount of publicity for the sport if Rosberg took the title, and we have seen Bernie often play up the idea "even bad publicity is better than no publicity" - furthermore, Bernie would probably take it as valediction of his idea, saying that it did exactly what it was intended to do (i.e. artificially extend the championship battle).

On the other side, if Abu Dhabi is indeed paying extra money for the right to double points, Bernie might just be waiting to see if it makes any difference to the championship outcome before deciding to ditch it. If can "get away with it" by Hamilton winning the title then he'll surely be eager to keep milking money out of selling the privilege.

mario wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:

watka wrote:Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

Pretty much.

But as I said at the start of the season, I think it needs to cause a little chaos now - before it beds down as just another accepted, awful rule. And when one driver is far more likeable, but has also been quite resolutely outperformed, it's the least painful scenario possible, as far as I can see it anyway.

Mind you, Bernie has hinted that he is already considering ditching the double points idea (even if the idea is currently written into the draft sporting regulations for 2015), so it is possible that the criticism that has been levelled this season has already made FOM reconsider its plans for 2015.

The other question is whether a victory for Rosberg would actually be seen as a bad thing by FOM. The criticism would be intense, but it would also generate a huge amount of publicity for the sport if Rosberg took the title, and we have seen Bernie often play up the idea "even bad publicity is better than no publicity" - furthermore, Bernie would probably take it as valediction of his idea, saying that it did exactly what it was intended to do (i.e. artificially extend the championship battle).

I think behind closed doors even Bernie knows the 'any publicity' adage is something of a falsehood (just ask Max Mosley), but we'll just have to see what happens.

And just to throw an unrelated unpopular opinion out there...

Jenson should replace Felipe at Williams.

*braces*

watka wrote:Wanting the championship to be decided on double points so that it can be gotten rid of is equivalent to self-flagellation.

I'd like it decided on double points to stick it to Hamilton's fans.

SgtPepper wrote:And just to throw an unrelated unpopular opinion out there...

Jenson should replace Felipe at Williams.

*braces*

Thinking about it...

I'm a Williams fan. I'm a Jenson fan. Williams is currently a bit better than the McLaren. Jenson began with Williams, so if he ends his career at Williams, he would have gone full-circle. He may even possibly get another win. Possibly. And Felipe has not performed quite as well as Valterri this year for whatever reason. So, not unpopular with me!

dr-baker wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:And just to throw an unrelated unpopular opinion out there...

Jenson should replace Felipe at Williams.

*braces*

Thinking about it...

I'm a Williams fan. I'm a Jenson fan. Williams is currently a bit better than the McLaren. Jenson began with Williams, so if he ends his career at Williams, he would have gone full-circle. He may even possibly get another win. Possibly. And Felipe has not performed quite as well as Valterri this year for whatever reason. So, not unpopular with me!

To go properly full circle he'd go to Mercedes, stay there for a surprisingly long time, then a couple of middling years at Enstone and then the last year at Williams in 2028.

dr-baker wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:And just to throw an unrelated unpopular opinion out there...

Jenson should replace Felipe at Williams.

*braces*

Thinking about it...

I'm a Williams fan. I'm a Jenson fan. Williams is currently a bit better than the McLaren. Jenson began with Williams, so if he ends his career at Williams, he would have gone full-circle. He may even possibly get another win. Possibly. And Felipe has not performed quite as well as Valterri this year for whatever reason. So, not unpopular with me!

True, but if hypothetical Frank were to chuck Massa out on the streets, surely it would be a better use of his time to try and court Alonso?

pasta_maldonado wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:And just to throw an unrelated unpopular opinion out there...

Jenson should replace Felipe at Williams.

*braces*

Thinking about it...

I'm a Williams fan. I'm a Jenson fan. Williams is currently a bit better than the McLaren. Jenson began with Williams, so if he ends his career at Williams, he would have gone full-circle. He may even possibly get another win. Possibly. And Felipe has not performed quite as well as Valterri this year for whatever reason. So, not unpopular with me!

True, but if hypothetical Frank were to chuck Massa out on the streets, surely it would be a better use of his time to try and court Alonso?

If Alonso goes to McLaren, Jenson could do worse than go to Williams. If Alonso ends up at Williams (joining an exclusive club of only a few drivers to have driven for McLaren, Ferrari and Williams), then Jenson would be fairly safe at McLaren, I would have thought?

dr-baker wrote:If Alonso goes to McLaren, Jenson could do worse than go to Williams. If Alonso ends up at Williams (joining an exclusive club of only a few drivers to have driven for McLaren, Ferrari and Williams), then Jenson would be fairly safe at McLaren, I would have thought?

You would assume so given that Alonso seems to have found himself in a situation where it is essentially McLaren or bust if his relationship with Ferrari has, as is rumoured, broken down completely.

The other teams are effectively locked out - Red Bull are sticking to their own drivers and Ferrari seem to be using this as an opportunity to have a clean break with the past and form a Vettel-Kimi partnership for their long term restructuring. As for Mercedes, there were those who wondered for a while if Hamilton might leave the team if tensions between himself and Rosberg became too much (given Rosberg already has secured his long term future at Mercedes) following the clash in Belgium and the angry exchanges after that.

Peculiarly, it seems to have had the opposite effect - it seems to have driven Hamilton to knuckle down harder than ever in determination to beat Rosberg, and his recent dominance of Rosberg seems to have removed much of the tension that had been there just a few months earlier. With Mercedes out of the question, the only major team that is a potential option is McLaren, and therein lies a problem for Alonso given it severely limits his room to negotiate. It does seem to be a pretty strange situation when the driver who has consistently been rated as the best in the field by the team principals for several years in a row is on the market and yet most teams have quite happily dismissed his efforts to contact them out of hand.

At the moment, the only team that was a midfielder but now looks to be in something of the ascendency is Williams. It would be a fairly sizeable gamble to make however - there is no guarantee that Williams will be able to preserve their current form into 2015, whilst Williams in turn are probably not in a position to afford to take on a driver like Alonso just yet.

Furthermore, from their point of view they have a driver - Bottas - whom they want to nurture and build the team around for the long term, which is the role that Alonso would want for himself. I can see Button being prepared to position himself alongside a rising star like Bottas given that is exactly what he is doing at McLaren, but I'm not so sure that Alonso would be so comfortable in the same role.

I would actually prefer Ferrari to lose Kimi (despite his MiniDrivers character being the funniest!!), and have the ultimate showdown of Vettel and Alonso as teammates. That would be epic!

The other thing is if McLaren signed Alonso and Honda wanted to keep Button, where could Magnussen go now? He can't be loaned out to a midfield team with Force India, Sauber tied up (is Grosjean confirmed at Lotus?) and Toro Rosso won't take anyone external. It would be bad for a young driver's development to lose him now - similar to Williams interrupting Coulthard's development to accommodate Mansell's short lived come back in 1994. I remember there being a letter in Autosport at the time that Williams should have fired Damon Hill if they were that desperate to have Mansell rather than their youngster sit out!

Hamilton has stopped whining after some earlier this season. Therefore I support him to win his 2nd F1 title, but I still support Rosberg to try to win his 1st title. Also since Marussia has gone out of business, I want Sauber and Caterham to score as much as they can in these last races. #HamiltonForF1Title

I want the title to be decided on double points now, just to see the reaction on social media.

I could never be doing with Ralph Firman. I think it was his accent.

I completely concur with the trend here actually (ain't so unpopular after all) that Rosberg must win on double points to make this year complete

Also I'd love to see Caterham come back and Ericsson finish 7th, to put Caterham in front of even Lotus. The money from the 12 points and the 8th in the championship will rocket the team into the midfield next year.

Jenson Button is a better choice than Kevin Magnussen for McLaren in 2015.

CoopsII wrote:Jenson Button is a better choice than Kevin Magnussen for McLaren in 2015.

Going to have to agree that, at least for the short term, Jenson would be a better choice. Long term, however, Kevin's the man. Button's been outperforming him for most of the season, even if not by a huge margin. The only thing going for Magnussen is the fact that Button isn't going to be around forever, and the fact that Magnussen can still improve over the next few years.

Simtek wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Jenson Button is a better choice than Kevin Magnussen for McLaren in 2015.

Going to have to agree that, at least for the short term, Jenson would be a better choice. Long term, however, Kevin's the man. Button's been outperforming him for most of the season, even if not by a huge margin. The only thing going for Magnussen is the fact that Button isn't going to be around forever, and the fact that Magnussen can still improve over the next few years.

And that would appear to be the reason why Magnussen is potentially the more likely driver to be retained - whilst his short term performances have not been at the same level as Button, his potential to improve his future performance is much higher than Button, who is more likely to simply remain at his current performance level.

Given Button is 34 years old, in all likelihood he probably would be looking to retire in a few years time: meanwhile, at the age of 33, many feel that any move Alonso makes is probably the final move of his career. From the point of view of McLaren, having two drivers who would potentially retire at around the same time is a potentially much more disruptive situation; by contrast, if they can position Magnussen correctly, he can then become the focal point of the team for the longer term as and when Alonso retires, giving them time to prepare for the future.

The only thing with Magnussen is he's not really doing any better in relation to Button this year than Perez did last year - though Perez did have a couple of years with Sauber which Magnussen hasn't, which is in Magnussen's favour I guess!

If Button is kicked out of F1 due to Alonso's relationship with Ferrari breaking down (and partially Red Bull's decision to promote Kvyat) then I still think it will be a total injustice though.

James1978 wrote:The only thing with Magnussen is he's not really doing any better in relation to Button this year than Perez did last year - though Perez did have a couple of years with Sauber which Magnussen hasn't, which is in Magnussen's favour I guess!

If Button is kicked out of F1 due to Alonso's relationship with Ferrari breaking down (and partially Red Bull's decision to promote Kvyat) then I still think it will be a total injustice though.

Button is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. As many have stated, if one of the drivers at McLaren is forced to leave to make way for Alonso, then that will be a bad move.
Kicking out Button would be stupid because he has proven himself some way this year to still be a very capable and experienced driver, despite his inability to transcend the abilities of that bad McLaren from '13. But age isn't on his side and although Magnussen has only beaten Button on merit a few times since Australia (mind you, he was certain to beat Button in more races without misfortune e.g. Germany or Italy), Kevin has outqualified Button on 9 occasions out of 18 this year. Kicking out Magnussen wouldn't be a smart choice either because in my opinion has proven himself quite well, as he is just a rookie, so disposing of him now after just 1 season when he has done a good job will be regarded as too harsh. On balance, Magnussen is the better prospect and therefore Button will likely leave, with there seemingly being nowhere else for him to go.
Really, Magnussen has done a better job than Perez did. Yes he has had the more competitive machinery(?) but he has made fewer noticeable mistakes, despite the reckless antics at Spa. Perez on the other hand got it wrong at virtually every turn, crashing in qualifying and races, having several collisions and causing other incidents etc. I don't recall Kevin doing much of that.

VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

I'll have a box of whatever it is you're on, please

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

What absolute rubbish. Hermann Tilke isn't even human. How else do you explain the lack of variety in his designs?

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

Yeah, because i'm sure you are absolutely convinced of this opinion, and you're willing to risk your life defending it, right?

I'm not sure if this is unpopular: the many small (mosty italian) teams in the late eighties/early nineties were frauds, who put the few sponsorship they have in their own pocket and ran their teams on a budget as low as possible. They were all pathetic because they never had any intention of being competitive. As this was the period where questionable investors popped up everywhere, this is not unlikely.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

I'll have a box of whatever it is you're on, please

Does ADHD medication count?

Simtek wrote:

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

What absolute rubbish. Hermann Tilke isn't even human. How else do you explain the lack of variety in his designs?

Do you really think I was serious about Valencia being great? Of course I was being sarcastic.

CoopsII wrote:Jenson Button is a better choice than Kevin Magnussen for McLaren in 2015.

This option is going to avoid future conflicts between Alonso and Magnussen. In other hand, Mclaren will waste a pretty good driver.

Button doesn't have much time left in F1, while Magnussen have plenty of it.

Frogfoot9013 wrote:Do you really think I was serious about Valencia being great? Of course I was being sarcastic.

Do you really think I was serious about Hermann Tilke not being human? Of course I knew you were being sarcastic.

This wrote:

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

Yeah, because i'm sure you are absolutely convinced of this opinion, and you're willing to risk your life defending it, right?

I'm not sure if this is unpopular: the many small (mosty italian) teams in the late eighties/early nineties were frauds, who put the few sponsorship they have in their own pocket and ran their teams on a budget as low as possible. They were all pathetic because they never had any intention of being competitive. As this was the period where questionable investors popped up everywhere, this is not unlikely.

I did a quiz a while back where one of the questions was to name team owners/principals that had been convicted of fraud. Some of the correct answers (by no means a complete list) were Cyril de Rouvre, Didier Calmels, Jean-Pierre Van Rossem, Andrea Sassetti, Akira Akagi, and Joaquim Luhti, i.e. all team owners in the late 1980s/early 1990s. So I don't think you are wrong at all!

Frogfoot9013 wrote:VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Valencia Street Circuit was the single greatest piece of human design ever.

The point of this thread is to state your own opinions that are unpopular, not to state something that isn't your opinion just because it's unpopular.

mario wrote:

Simtek wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Jenson Button is a better choice than Kevin Magnussen for McLaren in 2015.

Going to have to agree that, at least for the short term, Jenson would be a better choice. Long term, however, Kevin's the man. Button's been outperforming him for most of the season, even if not by a huge margin. The only thing going for Magnussen is the fact that Button isn't going to be around forever, and the fact that Magnussen can still improve over the next few years.

And that would appear to be the reason why Magnussen is potentially the more likely driver to be retained - whilst his short term performances have not been at the same level as Button, his potential to improve his future performance is much higher than Button, who is more likely to simply remain at his current performance level.

Given Button is 34 years old, in all likelihood he probably would be looking to retire in a few years time: meanwhile, at the age of 33, many feel that any move Alonso makes is probably the final move of his career. From the point of view of McLaren, having two drivers who would potentially retire at around the same time is a potentially much more disruptive situation; by contrast, if they can position Magnussen correctly, he can then become the focal point of the team for the longer term as and when Alonso retires, giving them time to prepare for the future.

I understand the logic behind choosing Magnussen, its pretty clear, but I think its an arrogant posture from McLaren. If you ignore their history and past success (which teams in F1 never do) they've been a pretty uninspiring mid-grid team this season, often struggling to maintain even that. A solid season with two veterans could yield positive results and then the financial benefits that come with it. Perhaps they might even manage to bag a decent title sponsor. Also, you watch, Magnussen will have a poor 2015 with the Honda engines and get binned anyway Perez-style.

I would like to see Powell in Abu Dhabi. After all she is far better than Carmen Jorda, she can bring money, and she isn't totally awful.

Normal32 wrote:I would like to see Powell in Abu Dhabi. After all she is far better than Carmen Jorda, she can bring money, and she isn't totally awful.

And how is 'being better than Carmen Jorda' an achievement? I bet even Amati could beat Jorda in a straight fight. [insert DrBaker comment about literally fighting]

Unpopular opinion (at least on this forum): the 1975-style cars looked amazingly badass. Yeah sure, they're no beauties, but they really had something.

This wrote:Unpopular opinion (at least on this forum): the 1975-style cars looked amazingly badass. Yeah sure, they're no beauties, but they really had something.

Agreed. They're interesting in a slightly mad way.

This wrote:

Normal32 wrote:I would like to see Powell in Abu Dhabi. After all she is far better than Carmen Jorda, she can bring money, and she isn't totally awful.

And how is 'being better than Carmen Jorda' an achievement? I bet even Amati could beat Jorda in a straight fight. [insert DrBaker comment about literally fighting]

Unpopular opinion (at least on this forum): the 1975-style cars looked amazingly badass. Yeah sure, they're no beauties, but they really had something.

Agreed. The '70s really were the pinnacle of F1 car design when it comes to variety. I just love (another unpopular opinion) that insane airbox on the Ligier JS5.

CoopsII wrote:I understand the logic behind choosing Magnussen, its pretty clear, but I think its an arrogant posture from McLaren. If you ignore their history and past success (which teams in F1 never do) they've been a pretty uninspiring mid-grid team this season, often struggling to maintain even that. A solid season with two veterans could yield positive results and then the financial benefits that come with it. Perhaps they might even manage to bag a decent title sponsor. Also, you watch, Magnussen will have a poor 2015 with the Honda engines and get binned anyway Perez-style.

On the other hand, whilst Button does come with considerably more experience than Magnussen, he also comes with a much higher price tag to match - and it is possible that McLaren believe that they can use that money to get more out of the car via using those funds to develop it rather than from the drivers.

The other aspect is that there are a few rumours suggesting that even if they were to offer Button a chance to stay on, he might refuse to accept it anyway because of the rather poor way in which they have treated him, which seems to have damaged the working relationship between the two parties. Whilst Button has been fairly diplomatic, he has hinted that he isn't entirely happy with how he has been treated, such as the fact that McLaren decided, partway through this season, to suddenly remove the experienced delegated engineer he worked with to set his car up and to replace him with a rookie engineer. Not only does it partially explain his decline in form in the mid season, it also seems to have been perceived as a bit of a snub by McLaren towards Button.

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is also an additional subtext, which is the fact that getting rid of Button would be a symbolic "clearing of the decks" and a way of disassociating McLaren from Whitmarsh given Button's association with Whitmarsh's reign at McLaren.

SgtPepper wrote:

This wrote:Unpopular opinion (at least on this forum): the 1975-style cars looked amazingly badass. Yeah sure, they're no beauties, but they really had something.

Agreed. They're interesting in a slightly mad way.

Those cars look like they started building it, looked at it, then said to each other; "Yep, that looks fast, I think." and then went on-track to find out if their hunches were correct.