Grand Prix Rejects

CarlosFerreira wrote:

mario wrote:If you are referring to McLaren's performance in Jerez, the worrying thing is that that performance seems to have come when the car was in an abnormal configuration. According to Whitmarsh, a mechanic installed a suspension component incorrectly - it is suggested that it was installed the wrong way round - which resulted in a car that was very quick but could not run in that configuration at bumpy tracks (McLaren did try running the car in a similar configuration in Melbourne but couldn't get it to work). http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/16/how- ... erez-test/

The awkward moment when your multi-million pound car runs better when someone accidentally assembles the suspension the wrong way around... Dear me, that's not promising, is it?

Reminds me of the Ferrari a few years ago, which started running faster once the front wing was damaged slightly...

...and another thing. I was looking at the nominations for IIDOTR, and Sutil seems to wiping the floor with the competition. Now, it's certainly a great story that a guy that's been away for a year can lead a race so confidently for so many laps, but his finishing position and di Resta's comments suggest something else: first, that this year's Force India is indeed a good car; and second, that the super softs Pirelli took to Australia were behind Sutil's performance.

Now, don't get me wrong. Sutil did a great job, extracting the best from the fact that he was in the right place at the right time. Because of the tyre situation, di Resta (and all the other driver who made it to Q3) found themselves stopping ridiculously early and falling into traffic, while Adrian kept his cool, stayed out of trouble and pounded the track at a good rate to find himself P1. The pay-off came in the last laps, when he was encumbered with the super softs, and promptly fell like a rock into di Resta's clutches.

Now, this is not me propping up di Resta or snipping at Sutil, but it raises the question of what to do next week. If the tyres have the same behaviour, what do you do in Q3? Do you just tour around once in the mediums, in the expectation that everyone else will qualify in the supersofts and come unstuck in the race? Mercedes has done such things in the past; I can see Ferrari doing it as well, and the strategists in Red Bull are not idiotic. McLaren needs a silver bullet (if they make Q3 at all). So... is anyone going to actually go for pole in Q3?

Get a grip, Pirelli.

But if they do that they'll just end up in the same position Sutil was in Australia, with 10-15 laps to go on a set of super-softs that were knackered. The current situation, where it seems neither strategy offers a distinct benefit over the other, is the exact sort of environment that should be created. It gives the drivers choice, without the inevitability of them all going for the one that offers the greatest advantage.

AndreaModa wrote:But if they do that they'll just end up in the same position Sutil was in Australia, with 10-15 laps to go on a set of super-softs that were knackered.

Being in a worse tyre towards the end could mean you were unencumbered with traffic in the crucial parts of the race, immediately before and after the stops. In the end, Sutil did beat di Resta despite starting from behind, and it probably had to do with that. There is a clear advantage there.

James1978 wrote:I also missed up some of the build-up due to loss of singal on my Sky Box - does anyone know if there was an episode of McLaren's Tooned (presumably featuring Perez)? There certainly wasn't one after the race!! (Then again I think McLaren have more important matters to attend to than making cartoons)!!

Nope. They usually show it in an ad break around half an hour before the race start and then again after the race but there was nothing this week.
They didn't start showing them until a few races into last season though, and they've still got the logo on the back of the rear wing, so I'm sure there will be some soon!

CarlosFerreira wrote:...and another thing. I was looking at the nominations for IIDOTR, and Sutil seems to wiping the floor with the competition. Now, it's certainly a great story that a guy that's been away for a year can lead a race so confidently for so many laps, but his finishing position and di Resta's comments suggest something else: first, that this year's Force India is indeed a good car; and second, that the super softs Pirelli took to Australia were behind Sutil's performance.

Now, don't get me wrong. Sutil did a great job, extracting the best from the fact that he was in the right place at the right time. Because of the tyre situation, di Resta (and all the other driver who made it to Q3) found themselves stopping ridiculously early and falling into traffic, while Adrian kept his cool, stayed out of trouble and pounded the track at a good rate to find himself P1. The pay-off came in the last laps, when he was encumbered with the super softs, and promptly fell like a rock into di Resta's clutches.

Now, this is not me propping up di Resta or snipping at Sutil, but it raises the question of what to do next week. If the tyres have the same behaviour, what do you do in Q3? Do you just tour around once in the mediums, in the expectation that everyone else will qualify in the supersofts and come unstuck in the race? Mercedes has done such things in the past; I can see Ferrari doing it as well, and the strategists in Red Bull are not idiotic. McLaren needs a silver bullet (if they make Q3 at all). So... is anyone going to actually go for pole in Q3?

Get a grip, Pirelli.

In theory, it is less likely that Malaysia will see a repeat of what happened in Australia because the tyre allocation is more sensible this time around. Pirelli are bringing the medium and hard tyres for Malaysia due to the higher lateral loads from the higher average corner speeds, so with only one step between the compounds rather than two the difference in degradation and overall performance should be smaller.

It also has to be said that the much colder conditions on Sunday (about 22ºC track temp against 35ºC on Friday) played their part, since there are some reports that suggest the super soft tyres were not dropping off quite so badly on Friday when the track temperatures were higher. If anything, the tyres may have been cold graining rather than wearing out - Sutil's times actually improved quite significantly in the final three or four laps (he managed to get back into the mid 1m31s bracket for the final two laps), which was actually not that far off what he was doing on the medium tyres and suggests that his problems might have been transitory in nature.

Anyway, back to Malaysia - in this situation I think that, with the difference being less marked, it is less likely that the teams will intentionally sit out Q3 unless they are certain to qualify in 10th place - track position would probably be considered worth the trade off for slightly reduced tyre life as the tyres are less likely to burn out so rapidly. Perhaps Pirelli should give more consideration to just having one rather than two steps in compound per weekend, as that would provide less of an incentive to sit out Q3?

Barbazza wrote:

James1978 wrote:I also missed up some of the build-up due to loss of singal on my Sky Box - does anyone know if there was an episode of McLaren's Tooned (presumably featuring Perez)? There certainly wasn't one after the race!! (Then again I think McLaren have more important matters to attend to than making cartoons)!!

Nope. They usually show it in an ad break around half an hour before the race start and then again after the race but there was nothing this week.
They didn't start showing them until a few races into last season though, and they've still got the logo on the back of the rear wing, so I'm sure there will be some soon!

McLaren Tweeted that Tooned would return at the Spanish Grand Prix.

mario wrote:In theory, it is less likely that Malaysia will see a repeat of what happened in Australia because the tyre allocation is more sensible this time around. Pirelli are bringing the medium and hard tyres for Malaysia due to the higher lateral loads from the higher average corner speeds, so with only one step between the compounds rather than two the difference in degradation and overall performance should be smaller.

It also has to be said that the much colder conditions on Sunday (about 22ºC track temp against 35ºC on Friday) played their part, since there are some reports that suggest the super soft tyres were not dropping off quite so badly on Friday when the track temperatures were higher. If anything, the tyres may have been cold graining rather than wearing out - Sutil's times actually improved quite significantly in the final three or four laps (he managed to get back into the mid 1m31s bracket for the final two laps), which was actually not that far off what he was doing on the medium tyres and suggests that his problems might have been transitory in nature.

Anyway, back to Malaysia - in this situation I think that, with the difference being less marked, it is less likely that the teams will intentionally sit out Q3 unless they are certain to qualify in 10th place - track position would probably be considered worth the trade off for slightly reduced tyre life as the tyres are less likely to burn out so rapidly. Perhaps Pirelli should give more consideration to just having one rather than two steps in compound per weekend, as that would provide less of an incentive to sit out Q3?

With regards to Malaysia, that's good to hear. Plus, I'll remember my own caveat that Albert Park is a very peculiar place, and I am sure that halfway through the season Pirelli will have changed the compounds, as the teams and drivers put pressure on them to do so - much like last year. I would be really sad to see Q3 totally corrupted by the tyres.

GwilymJJames wrote:

Barbazza wrote:

James1978 wrote:I also missed up some of the build-up due to loss of singal on my Sky Box - does anyone know if there was an episode of McLaren's Tooned (presumably featuring Perez)? There certainly wasn't one after the race!! (Then again I think McLaren have more important matters to attend to than making cartoons)!!

Nope. They usually show it in an ad break around half an hour before the race start and then again after the race but there was nothing this week.
They didn't start showing them until a few races into last season though, and they've still got the logo on the back of the rear wing, so I'm sure there will be some soon!

McLaren Tweeted that Tooned would return at the Spanish Grand Prix.

Thanks for the info!!

CarlosFerreira wrote:...and another thing. I was looking at the nominations for IIDOTR, and Sutil seems to wiping the floor with the competition. Now, it's certainly a great story that a guy that's been away for a year can lead a race so confidently for so many laps, but his finishing position and di Resta's comments suggest something else: first, that this year's Force India is indeed a good car; and second, that the super softs Pirelli took to Australia were behind Sutil's performance.

Now, don't get me wrong. Sutil did a great job, extracting the best from the fact that he was in the right place at the right time. Because of the tyre situation, di Resta (and all the other driver who made it to Q3) found themselves stopping ridiculously early and falling into traffic, while Adrian kept his cool, stayed out of trouble and pounded the track at a good rate to find himself P1. The pay-off came in the last laps, when he was encumbered with the super softs, and promptly fell like a rock into di Resta's clutches.

Now, this is not me propping up di Resta or snipping at Sutil, but it raises the question of what to do next week. If the tyres have the same behaviour, what do you do in Q3? Do you just tour around once in the mediums, in the expectation that everyone else will qualify in the supersofts and come unstuck in the race? Mercedes has done such things in the past; I can see Ferrari doing it as well, and the strategists in Red Bull are not idiotic. McLaren needs a silver bullet (if they make Q3 at all). So... is anyone going to actually go for pole in Q3?

Get a grip, Pirelli.

Agree, I was quite surprised that di Resta didn't run on mediums or even not run in Q3, as he was unlikely to out qualify the Red Bulls/Ferraris/Mercedes/Lotii and that would have put him ahead of Sutil throughout the race and he could have potentially been fighting for a podium.

As for his comments after the race - was he supposed to be happy that he couldn't fight Sutil??

DG

mario wrote:In theory, it is less likely that Malaysia will see a repeat of what happened in Australia because the tyre allocation is more sensible this time around. Pirelli are bringing the medium and hard tyres for Malaysia due to the higher lateral loads from the higher average corner speeds, so with only one step between the compounds rather than two the difference in degradation and overall performance should be smaller.

True, but the 2013 Pirellis are supposed to be a step softer, so they should be similar to soft and medium in 2012. Okay still just one step, but they should degrade faster again.

Overall the grey zone between can they do 2 or 3 stops makes for a good mix up and hence exciting racing

DG