Grand Prix Rejects

NASCAR has the superior drivers.....on an oval, perhaps that's true. Even if Kurt had the best team and Indy is a bit of a special oval where one-offs have more of an equal chance to full time drivers than elsewhere.

On a twisty - just compare the respective performances of Indycar drivers and NASCAR drivers in a Daytona Prototype - and come tell us how much better the NASCAR drivers are, again.

giraurd wrote:NASCAR has the superior drivers.....on an oval, perhaps that's true. Even if Kurt had the best team and Indy is a bit of a special oval where one-offs have more of an equal chance to full time drivers than elsewhere.

On a twisty - just compare the respective performances of Indycar drivers and NASCAR drivers in a Daytona Prototype - and come tell us how much better the NASCAR drivers are, again.

The Daytona Prototype has more characteristics similar to an IndyCar than to a NASCAR in the terms of engine location and to a lesser degree in the downforce traits to the point the competitiveness is more from the learning curve advantage favors the IndyCar driver. Run the reverse in GT and the IndyCar driver suddenly is at a disadvantage especially if it's a front engine rear wheel drive car.

Team orders made DTM foreseeable and boring.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

giraurd wrote:NASCAR has the superior drivers.....on an oval, perhaps that's true. Even if Kurt had the best team and Indy is a bit of a special oval where one-offs have more of an equal chance to full time drivers than elsewhere.

On a twisty - just compare the respective performances of Indycar drivers and NASCAR drivers in a Daytona Prototype - and come tell us how much better the NASCAR drivers are, again.

The Daytona Prototype has more characteristics similar to an IndyCar than to a NASCAR in the terms of engine location and to a lesser degree in the downforce traits to the point the competitiveness is more from the learning curve advantage favors the IndyCar driver. Run the reverse in GT and the IndyCar driver suddenly is at a disadvantage especially if it's a front engine rear wheel drive car.

So why doesn't this "learning curve" argument apply to Indycar/F1-->Nascar transition? Have there been instances where modern Nascar drivers have beaten open wheel drivers in GT or is it all ifs and buts?

Nascar is a bit the same as V8 Supercars. No one in their right mind will say that V8 Supercar drivers are by far the best in the world - but their car is so different to any other racing categories that every single time an "outsider" steps in, they are miles off and will struggle to break into top 10.

giraurd wrote:So why doesn't this "learning curve" argument apply to Indycar/F1-->Nascar transition? Have there been instances where modern Nascar drivers have beaten open wheel drivers in GT or is it all ifs and buts?

Nascar is a bit the same as V8 Supercars. No one in their right mind will say that V8 Supercar drivers are by far the best in the world - but their car is so different to any other racing categories that every single time an "outsider" steps in, they are miles off and will struggle to break into top 10.

I think we can see the situation back in the IROC days from 1984 to 1991 when IROC cars were Chevy Camaros and Dodge Daytonas and raced on both ovals and road courses. In that span, only one non-NASCAR driver won the championship in Al Unser Jr. in 1988. The properties of those cars were more akin to GT cars than NASCARs in power. I believe IndyCar has essentially been sapped by the lower cost and high money yield of NASCAR and the prestige of F1.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

giraurd wrote:So why doesn't this "learning curve" argument apply to Indycar/F1-->Nascar transition? Have there been instances where modern Nascar drivers have beaten open wheel drivers in GT or is it all ifs and buts?

Nascar is a bit the same as V8 Supercars. No one in their right mind will say that V8 Supercar drivers are by far the best in the world - but their car is so different to any other racing categories that every single time an "outsider" steps in, they are miles off and will struggle to break into top 10.

I think we can see the situation back in the IROC days from 1984 to 1991 when IROC cars were Chevy Camaros and Dodge Daytonas and raced on both ovals and road courses. In that span, only one non-NASCAR driver won the championship in Al Unser Jr. in 1988. The properties of those cars were more akin to GT cars than NASCARs in power. I believe IndyCar has essentially been sapped by the lower cost and high money yield of NASCAR and the prestige of F1.

Not true, 9 out of the first 12 IROC titles were taken by F1 or Indy drivers.

http://www.databaseracing.com/races/yearlist.htm?sr=29

I don't see any problem with Citroen's WTCC livery. Could do with some of their more traditional red though

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

giraurd wrote:So why doesn't this "learning curve" argument apply to Indycar/F1-->Nascar transition? Have there been instances where modern Nascar drivers have beaten open wheel drivers in GT or is it all ifs and buts?

Nascar is a bit the same as V8 Supercars. No one in their right mind will say that V8 Supercar drivers are by far the best in the world - but their car is so different to any other racing categories that every single time an "outsider" steps in, they are miles off and will struggle to break into top 10.

I think we can see the situation back in the IROC days from 1984 to 1991 when IROC cars were Chevy Camaros and Dodge Daytonas and raced on both ovals and road courses. In that span, only one non-NASCAR driver won the championship in Al Unser Jr. in 1988. The properties of those cars were more akin to GT cars than NASCARs in power. I believe IndyCar has essentially been sapped by the lower cost and high money yield of NASCAR and the prestige of F1.

IROC races on the ovals were very much like NASCAR restrictor plate races, very close and drafting being vital. That type of racing very much played into the hands of the NASCAR guys. Don't forget though that AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti were pretty handy driving stock cars themselves, both having won the Daytona 500.

Stewart should retire with immediate effect. I know many other drivers in different formulae have been involved in fatal accidents and continued but this sh1t is something else.

CoopsII wrote:Stewart should retire with immediate effect. I know many other drivers in different formulae have been involved in fatal accidents and continued but this sh1t is something else.

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. The fact is, there are more and more voices coming forward saying that he ~may~ have done it on purpose, and that he has previous anger issues, so many people will
see him as guilty even if nothing could ever be proved. The way I see it, if there's any doubt at all that it was an accident, he should never be allowed to race again.

I agree that he should make the decision himself, and ASAP. So, what CoopsII said, effectively!

I've followed Stewart's whole career, He got me back into NASCAR after Senior died. I honestly believe he wanted to "buzz" Mr. Ward and scare him. Being a huge TS fan, I can say that is 100% in his nature. This time it bit it. He'll retire from dirt track racing....finally. The bad PR from putting that girl in a wheelchair last year, breaking his own leg, and now tragically, this, will end his dirt days. Probably end any hope of the Double next year too. Tony will stay in NASCAR, where he's protected.

Wallio wrote: The bad PR from putting that girl in a wheelchair last year.

What are the facts from this case? (I know I can Google it, but I fear I will come across a lot of subjective opinion and not much cold, hard, objective fact.) When? Where? How?

I think he'll get away with it as there's minimal evidence either way. No telemetry just some shaky Youtube footage, the opinions of some drivers and Stewarts testimony itself.

dr-baker wrote:

Wallio wrote: The bad PR from putting that girl in a wheelchair last year.

What are the facts from this case? (I know I can Google it, but I fear I will come across a lot of subjective opinion and not much cold, hard, objective fact.) When? Where? How?

Its not a "case". It was a racing incident. It was a 19-car pile-up at the same track as the Ward wreck sadly. Tony admitted to being the cause of it, and several drivers were injured, and although only one was serious, that poor girl (she was 18 or 19 IIRC) was wheelchair bound with a broken back. The doctors weren't sure if she'd walk again, although there was hope. It all got lost when Tony himself shattered his leg a few weeks later. That was bigger news.

I have no doubt in my mind that Stewart did not want to kill Ward. The people who believe this was intentional murder tend to be the same sort of idiots who think vaccines cause Autism and other horseshit like that

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that Stewart did not want to kill Ward. The people who believe this was intentional murder tend to be the same sort of idiots who think vaccines cause Autism and other horseshit like that

I don't think anyone has suggested that was his intention, because you're describing pre meditation, but I believe his actions, motivated by anger, resulted in the accident.

CoopsII wrote:

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that Stewart did not want to kill Ward. The people who believe this was intentional murder tend to be the same sort of idiots who think vaccines cause Autism and other horseshit like that

I don't think anyone has suggested that was his intention, because you're describing pre meditation, but I believe his actions, motivated by anger, resulted in the accident.

Oh? And what are you basing that on? Yes, Tony Stewart has a history of dirty driving and pulling stupid idiotic moves - in NASCAR. But you don't intentionally wreck people in sprint cars (and by all accounts I've read, it seems that the initial crash was a racing incident), because some of the resulting crashes can be very violent. And as boneheaded as I've seen Stewart be, I've never heard of him pulling that stuff in sprint cars. So, I don't think his record in NASCAR really applies here.

So you're saying he is a dirty driver but only on certain days? So you could argue he's a dirty driver in Nascar who hasnt been dirty in sprint......yet. Mega.

Irrespective of where he's done it he's a driver with a history of red mist incidents behind him so with that in mind I view the balance of probability leaning towards this being another of those incidents. As I said, there is no evidence to establish blame or exonerate him so unless he decides to confess all we'll probably never know. Thats my opinion.

Salamander wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that Stewart did not want to kill Ward. The people who believe this was intentional murder tend to be the same sort of idiots who think vaccines cause Autism and other horseshit like that

I don't think anyone has suggested that was his intention, because you're describing pre meditation, but I believe his actions, motivated by anger, resulted in the accident.

Oh? And what are you basing that on? Yes, Tony Stewart has a history of dirty driving and pulling stupid idiotic moves - in NASCAR. But you don't intentionally wreck people in sprint cars (and by all accounts I've read, it seems that the initial crash was a racing incident), because some of the resulting crashes can be very violent. And as boneheaded as I've seen Stewart be, I've never heard of him pulling that stuff in sprint cars. So, I don't think his record in NASCAR really applies here.

Stewart made some hot head moves in USAC and the IRL too. He had a bad boy reputation by the time he got to NASCAR, it only expanded from there.

Ferrarist wrote:The DTM really needs to get its head out of its butt, if it wants to become an internationally significant series. In my opinion, DTM has the potential to become to Europe what NASCAR is to Europe. Especially if F1 takes a slump in the next couple of years. But there are several things the DTM needs to do:

1) Get a solid base in Germany. Some might assume that the solid base is there, but it isn't. Mainstream attention for the DTM is pretty low, and TV numbers are usually around 1 million viewers. Formula One gets six million, on a normal race weekend. So the DTM needs more mainstream attention in Germany, and the basic way is to create a new "German" hero. Pascal Wehrlein has plenty of potential. He's young, wild but needs to get slightly more charismatic. If he starts winning races, maybe the DTM will draw more attention by the mainstream. Timo Glock also doesn't seem to handle DTM too badly, so if he becomes a serious contender for wins, maybe that'll help, too.
Also, it'd help if the DTM got a more committed TV partner in Germany. "Das Erste" (Our equivalent to BBC One) rarely promotes the DTM outside of its usual time slot, and its coverage is quite bland. They also fail to promote any drivers. Well, I don't want the tabloidesque coverage of RTL, but I think that DTM belongs to commercial television. The Sat1 group already shows auto racing (The ADAC GT Masters on their channel "Kabel Eins"), so DTM would fit rather naturally. It'd also give us Jacques Schulz commentating DTM. Unfortunately, the DTM still has a contract until 2014 with Das Erste. Ironically, the old DTM was also on public rights TV, but promoted much better. Drivers like Bernd Schneider, Klaus Ludwig, Manuel Reuter or Hans-Joachim Stuck were very popular, even with most of the F1 crowd.
2) If that solid base in Germany is reached, expansion to the rest of Europe has to follow. The series needs much more international races, and much better TV contracts. In fact, the DTM should try to seek as many contracts with free TV stations in Europe as possible. Like ITV4 in Britain or RaiSport in Italy. The series should also make promotional use of its international drivers. After all, people can rally easier behind their fellow countryman.
3) Change the name of the series! A series can never be European if it still refers to its home country in its name! Something like "EuroCar" (Although there might be trouble with Europcar), or European Racing Series/League/Whatsoever.
4) Replace the old guard in charge of the DTM. Bring in (relatively) young people with fresh ideas such as Bernd Schneider or Manuel Reuter. Besides, retirement age in Germany is 65 (yet), yet Hans-Werner Aufrecht still runs the ITR at the age of 75. Can't someone call the police about it?^^
5) While I normally advocate cars getting as light as possible, such a proposal is almost impossible. Therefore, the DTM cars should become much heavier. They're already at 1100 KG, but I think that they could load an additional 150 KG. The additional weight should make a DTM car feel more like a proper touring car.
6) Make the grids much larger. Up to 40 cars should be possible in a series such as the DTM. Especially if the manufacturers make their cars more attractive to potential customers.

In my opinion, the most urgent step is step 4. Seriously, this series needs some fresh ideas and not some old farts in suits that constantly think that they can run their series the same way they used to run their series in the 1970's.

I have a theory as to why DTM is not blossoming more: the 3 big German manufacturers who compete against each other in DTM, don't really care. I suspect the reason for this might be that funding and staging their own sport might be a huge tax saving exercise for them. DTM is not really popular in Germany anymore, at least not near where it used to be in the late 80s and 90s in popularity. Looking at some of the sponsors also bolsters the tax savings theory. For example, when Martin Tomczyk won the drivers title a few years back, he won it whilst driving for Phoenix Racing, which would be the equivalent of a privateer team. It might be the 1st time that has happened in the history of the series. At least, that hasn't happened since Kurt Thiim's title in the Zakspeed-Mercedes in the early 90s. The sponsor on Tomczyk's car was Schaeffler Gruppe, a the privately owned holding company of an industry conglomerate. They decidedly didn't use the advertising space to promote one of their products. Schaeffler Gruppe is still involved in DTM and they still don't promote one of their products. They have since moved their sponsorship to one of the cars from Team Rosberg so they don't seem to be involved in team ownership, so there must be a different business strategy to make their investment commercially viable: getting tax cuts for sponsoring of a sport surely makes good business sense, especially when the cars run by the team you are sponsoring is one of your main businesses' biggest customers who buys your products in bulk: Audi.
There surely must be a lot of deals like this in place in DTM today, otherwise the events on the schedule would have to have more date equity, more constant scheduling from year to year. For example, Lausitzring and Oschersleben have shifted from the beginning of the season to its end, and one of them not only once, if I recall correctly. Also, the foreign rounds come and go, and in case an event like that needs to be subsidized financially, it's sports sponsoring again and you might be in for the next tax cut if you're a huge company earning lots of money every year.

I guess I'm lucky in that regard because I enjoy watching motor sports but other people who don't probably would consider this DTM series a huge waste of money.

So my "unpopular opinion" about DTM is that it will not change because that would cost more money than the tax savings scheme would make the companies, and on top of that, by actually improving DTM, they would risk making it viable and thus, they would have to pay higher taxes.

Is this theory balloney? Maybe, but this is F1 Rejects where Alexander Wurz is largely considered a world conquering wizard.
As cool a guy as he may be, he raced in DTM in the 90s before joining F1.

Didn't know that I made the post Yannick has quoted last year . Well, before I comment on Yannick's post, I'll go back to my post from 2013, to see how things have changed over year:

Ferrarist in 2013 wrote:The DTM really needs to get its head out of its butt, if it wants to become an internationally significant series. In my opinion, DTM has the potential to become to Europe what NASCAR is to Europe. Especially if F1 takes a slump in the next couple of years. But there are several things the DTM needs to do:

1) Get a solid base in Germany. Some might assume that the solid base is there, but it isn't. Mainstream attention for the DTM is pretty low, and TV numbers are usually around 1 million viewers. Formula One gets six million, on a normal race weekend. So the DTM needs more mainstream attention in Germany, and the basic way is to create a new "German" hero. Pascal Wehrlein has plenty of potential. He's young, wild but needs to get slightly more charismatic. If he starts winning races, maybe the DTM will draw more attention by the mainstream. Timo Glock also doesn't seem to handle DTM too badly, so if he becomes a serious contender for wins, maybe that'll help, too.

Well, DTM's TV ratings are still in the region of one million viewers, while on-track attendance is down. On the other hand, DTM has seen a German champion in 2013 and will probably see another in 2014. However, neither Mike Rockenfeller nor Marco Wittmann had real rivals on way to their titles. At the moment, Marco Wittmann's dominating the championship, but since he doesn't face any real opposition, his dominance makes DTM even more boring. The only thing I can hope for a season-long championship battle between Wittmann, Rockenfeller and (hopefully) Vietoris, which hopefully draws some German motorsport fans that normally don't watch DTM.

Also, it'd help if the DTM got a more committed TV partner in Germany. "Das Erste" (Our equivalent to BBC One) rarely promotes the DTM outside of its usual time slot, and its coverage is quite bland. They also fail to promote any drivers. Well, I don't want the tabloidesque coverage of RTL, but I think that DTM belongs to commercial television. The Sat1 group already shows auto racing (The ADAC GT Masters on their channel "Kabel Eins"), so DTM would fit rather naturally. It'd also give us Jacques Schulz commentating DTM. Unfortunately, the DTM still has a contract until 2014 with Das Erste. Ironically, the old DTM was also on public rights TV, but promoted much better. Drivers like Bernd Schneider, Klaus Ludwig, Manuel Reuter or Hans-Joachim Stuck were very popular, even with most of the F1 crowd.

Oh god, Das Erste is really a horrible TV partner. Worse, they have extended their contract to 2015. Also, they sacked Manuel Reuter and replaced him with Norbert Haug. Now don't get me wrong, Haug is actually a really good expert...but unfortunately, Das Erste has decided not to let him co-commentate the races. Therefore, the quality of the commentary has dropped even lower. Philipp Sohmer (The commentator for the DTM races) actually makes Heiko Waßer (RTL's F1 commentator) sound like Murray Walker!
Another point: A few weeks ago, German website Speedweek asked its reader to send in any complaints or suggestions about the DTM to them. They presented their results to Hans-Werner Aufrecht (I'll get to that later) and Axel Balkausky, "sports coordinator" of the ARD, which runs Das Erste. Obviously, there were complaints about the poor quality of the DTM telecasts. His response: "No, our coverage is good and we only receive good feedback for that yadayadayada." Which obviously shows that he hasn't asked motorsport fans about the quality of the telecast. No, Das Erste has to go sooner or later. Yes, their coverage may be free from ad breaks but I'd still take ads during the races, if the coverage of the race is good.

2) If that solid base in Germany is reached, expansion to the rest of Europe has to follow. The series needs much more international races, and much better TV contracts. In fact, the DTM should try to seek as many contracts with free TV stations in Europe as possible. Like ITV4 in Britain or RaiSport in Italy. The series should also make promotional use of its international drivers. After all, people can rally easier behind their fellow countryman.

Last time I've heard that the ITV4 contract was no more and that DTM was running on BTSport in Britain. Okay, the series probably earns some money with that, but I think that the DTM should "invest" by making their product available on as many free TV stations as possible. Now I know that you can receive Das Erste over Astra all over Europe, but not everyone in Europe has an Astra dish, let alone understands enough German to follow the coverage!

4) Replace the old guard in charge of the DTM. Bring in (relatively) young people with fresh ideas such as Bernd Schneider or Manuel Reuter. Besides, retirement age in Germany is 65 (yet), yet Hans-Werner Aufrecht still runs the ITR at the age of 75. Can't someone call the police about it?^^

First of all, Manuel Reuter is now the head of the newly formed DTM Drivers' Association, so he's basically the mouthpiece for the DTM drivers. I think Reuter's a good choice and I hope that he can do "something" in his position. Now onto HWA: To be fair, Speedweek also presented him a list of things the fans would like to see in DTM and what they don't like. He actually gave long enough answers and explained why things in DTM are the way they are. You may not like his views, but I'll at least give him credit for speaking about things. You can read the interview here: http://www.speedweek.com/dtm/news/60753 ... -Fans.html

Yannick wrote:I have a theory as to why DTM is not blossoming more: the 3 big German manufacturers who compete against each other in DTM, don't really care. I suspect the reason for this might be that funding and staging their own sport might be a huge tax saving exercise for them. DTM is not really popular in Germany anymore, at least not near where it used to be in the late 80s and 90s in popularity. Looking at some of the sponsors also bolsters the tax savings theory. For example, when Martin Tomczyk won the drivers title a few years back, he won it whilst driving for Phoenix Racing, which would be the equivalent of a privateer team. It might be the 1st time that has happened in the history of the series. At least, that hasn't happened since Kurt Thiim's title in the Zakspeed-Mercedes in the early 90s. The sponsor on Tomczyk's car was Schaeffler Gruppe, a the privately owned holding company of an industry conglomerate. They decidedly didn't use the advertising space to promote one of their products. Schaeffler Gruppe is still involved in DTM and they still don't promote one of their products. They have since moved their sponsorship to one of the cars from Team Rosberg so they don't seem to be involved in team ownership, so there must be a different business strategy to make their investment commercially viable: getting tax cuts for sponsoring of a sport surely makes good business sense, especially when the cars run by the team you are sponsoring is one of your main businesses' biggest customers who buys your products in bulk: Audi.

First of all: Kurt Thiim only won a title in 1987, but unfortunately he hasn't won any further championships. Then: Schaeffler has always sponsored Team Phoenix since 2011. Other than that, I haven't seen the manufacturer's involvement in DTM from this angle before. But it'd make sense, if the manufacturers were indeed using the DTM to save some taxes. To use another example: Volkswagen may be putting lots of money into the football club VfL Wolfsburg, in order to make Wolfsburg more attractive ( ) but perhaps to dump some of their profits there.

Here's one that may cause stitches to car fanboys: Moto3 is easily the most action packed, thrilling and best racing series in the world right now.

GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

Salamander wrote:GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

GP2 is rather spoiled for me by having to watch it from shitty quality streams.

Which leads to to my opinion, I personally think that having to stream any sport kills the whole appeal of watching it

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:

Salamander wrote:GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

GP2 is rather spoiled for me by having to watch it from shitty quality streams.

Which leads to to my opinion, I personally think that having to stream any sport kills the whole appeal of watching it

Don't be a cheapskate then! You get what you pay for, after all...

Ataxia wrote:

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:

Salamander wrote:GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

GP2 is rather spoiled for me by having to watch it from shitty quality streams.

Which leads to to my opinion, I personally think that having to stream any sport kills the whole appeal of watching it

Don't be a cheapskate then! You get what you pay for, after all...

And if there is no one who will provide you with that service in the first place...?

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:

Salamander wrote:GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

GP2 is rather spoiled for me by having to watch it from shitty quality streams.

Which leads to to my opinion, I personally think that having to stream any sport kills the whole appeal of watching it

It kind of brought me back to watching F1, I saw the first couple of rounds of the season on an internet stream, watching the NBC Allies of Diffey, Matchett, Hobbs and Buxton. And having just switched my tv service to Virgin Media, I also acquired the sky sports "season ticket", so I'm going to have to watch it on TV now

...oh wait OTHER than F1...ok, erm...quick quick...subject change!

The Skyactiv Mazda Protoype car has to be the worst racing car built this year, after a couple of years of the Skyactiv Diesel engine being in a "GX" Category car in Grand-Am before the disastrous merger. the Protoype car, Diesel Engine, and what I think is a Lola chassis (one of the last Lolas in existence), has had to fight for position on track with cars from a slower class, the likes of the Corvette and Vipers in GTLM (GTe). Originally Patrick Dempsey was to run this car when there were reports in 2013, and I was originally puzzled as to why he didn't go through with it, but It's blatantly obvious why he didn't, and it was a good decision.

ADx_Wales wrote:

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:

Salamander wrote:GP2 and IndyCar beg to differ.

GP2 is rather spoiled for me by having to watch it from shitty quality streams.

Which leads to to my opinion, I personally think that having to stream any sport kills the whole appeal of watching it

It kind of brought me back to watching F1, I saw the first couple of rounds of the season on an internet stream, watching the NBC Allies of Diffey, Matchett, Hobbs and Buxton. And having just switched my tv service to Virgin Media, I also acquired the sky sports "season ticket", so I'm going to have to watch it on TV now

...oh wait OTHER than F1...ok, erm...quick quick...subject change!

The Skyactiv Mazda Protoype car has to be the worst racing car built this year, after a couple of years of the Skyactiv Diesel engine being in a "GX" Category car in Grand-Am before the disastrous merger. the Protoype car, Diesel Engine, and what I think is a Lola chassis (one of the last Lolas in existence), has had to fight for position on track with cars from a slower class, the likes of the Corvette and Vipers in GTLM (GTe). Originally Patrick Dempsey was to run this car when there were reports in 2013, and I was originally puzzled as to why he didn't go through with it, but It's blatantly obvious why he didn't, and it was a good decision.

What are you on about? How did saving sports car racing become disastrous?

Vitaly Petrov should stay in DTM for 2015.

The Dutch Bear wrote:IROC races on the ovals were very much like NASCAR restrictor plate races, very close and drafting being vital. That type of racing very much played into the hands of the NASCAR guys. Don't forget though that AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti were pretty handy driving stock cars themselves, both having won the Daytona 500.

One should note that AJ Foyt had raced heavily in USAC's stock cars on road courses as well. I have made some projections of what if Foyt raced in NASCAR over a full career and it would be comparable to Tony Stewart in wins. There's a few drivers of that transcendent skill where they can race anything at the same level of competency. Foyt, Stewart, and Andretti are some of those figures who could probably jump into anything and contend.

Indycar aero kits is a bad idea. This will elevate the costs. Plus, the car isn't that safe. Why increasing the speed? The accidents of Dario Franchitti and Mikhail Aleshin aren't enough?

Dj_bereta wrote:Indycar aero kits is a bad idea. This will elevate the costs. Plus, the car isn't that safe. Why increasing the speed? The accidents of Dario Franchitti and Mikhail Aleshin aren't enough?

Nope. Remember and always remember: Motorsport is always dangerous. Even you can be injured from walking.

I love Citroen's entry on WTCC this year. Can't wait for Macau finale

AxelP800 wrote:Nope. Remember and always remember: Motorsport is always dangerous.

I hate this bullshit argument. Of course, driving a car at these high speeds is never without risk, but that should not be used as an argument to neglect safety. During the 60s and 70s, almost every year drivers died in horrifying accidents. Thankfully Jackie Stewart and others no longer wanted to accept these conditions, and Formula 1, and motor racing in general, turned into the relatively safe sport it is today. "Racing is dangerous" is not an argument to neglect safety, but to further increase it.

AxelP800 wrote:I love Citroen's entry on WTCC this year. Can't wait for Macau finale

So you like privateers being screwed over or being priced out of the series?

East Londoner wrote:

AxelP800 wrote:I love Citroen's entry on WTCC this year. Can't wait for Macau finale

So you like privateers being screwed over or being priced out of the series?

Axel is purposefully against everything we are. And when he's not, he's making slanderous comments about the forum. I'd just set the kid to "ignore" if I were you, because he'll only just troll harder if you confront him about it.

Ataxia wrote:

East Londoner wrote:

AxelP800 wrote:I love Citroen's entry on WTCC this year. Can't wait for Macau finale

So you like privateers being screwed over or being priced out of the series?

Axel is purposefully against everything we are. And when he's not, he's making slanderous comments about the forum. I'd just set the kid to "ignore" if I were you, because he'll only just troll harder if you confront him about it.

I would like to see him banned.

There is no such thing as 'everything we are'. I'm not defending him, but you can't really define how someone has to think in here. We wouldn't want to go down that route. I'm not saying he's not trolling. But seriously, why all the hate? Don't you guys have better things to do?
I think a lot of the people from the beginning days have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they are not as influential as they hoped they would be. All these cockfights are from people who want to prove how important they are and they all have serious identity issues. I never really understood this kind of behaviour, i guess it's lack of testosterone

This wrote:There is no such thing as 'everything we are'. I'm not defending him, but you can't really define how someone has to think in here. We wouldn't want to go down that route. I'm not saying he's not trolling. But seriously, why all the hate? Don't you guys have better things to do?
I think a lot of the people from the beginning days have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they are not as influential as they hoped they would be. All these cockfights are from people who want to prove how important they are and they all have serious identity issues. I never really understood this kind of behaviour, i guess it's lack of testosterone

I apologise, I know I'm a bit of an anus at times. I don't want to be the guy who has to moan at everything or be an ass about everything, but sometimes there are posts that just rub me up the wrong way, you know?

This wrote:There is no such thing as 'everything we are'. I'm not defending him, but you can't really define how someone has to think in here. We wouldn't want to go down that route. I'm not saying he's not trolling. But seriously, why all the hate? Don't you guys have better things to do?
I think a lot of the people from the beginning days have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that they are not as influential as they hoped they would be. All these cockfights are from people who want to prove how important they are and they all have serious identity issues. I never really understood this kind of behaviour, i guess it's lack of testosterone

I can say it is true that my way of thinking is slight different from many others in this forum, so there's even some unpopular opinions that I don't dare to say, because the forum will erupted

I suppose because I'm a teenager in a process

Huzzah! It is I, the great Pastio! The best Magician who doesn't use camera trickery*cough*you know who I'm talking about*cough*cough*

Anyway, I shall need a volunteer.

AxelP800 wrote:
I can say it is true that my way of thinking is slight different from many others in this forum, so there's even some unpopular opinions that I don't dare to say, because the forum will erupted

I suppose because I'm a teenager in a process

You sir, you with the "I love Citroen" shirt on! Come on up, don't be shy...

Now, pick a card. Any card.

That's it. Look at it. Feel it. Absorb it into your soul, into the fibre of your being. Do not tell me what it is. You may show the audience if you wish.

Hmn. I'm getting an itch behind my right ear...is it... a card?

*audience gasps*

Is your card the Ace of Bias, brave volunteer?



*audience gasps again before cheering loudly*

Thank you, thank you kind audience! Now, my volunteer; please sit back down again and refrain from voicing opinions you know are controversial just to stir. Thank you.

Now, for my next trick, I shall revive Caterham F1...