The 2017 Silly Season thread

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 10 Nov 2016, 16:55

Ocon has absolutely nothing in F1 to deserve that Force India seat, but we all know why it's happened. I just hope that Ericsson stays at Sauber - he deserves to be there next year much more than Nasr does.

Post by **Ataxia** » 10 Nov 2016, 17:08

Barbazza wrote:Ocon has absolutely nothing in F1 to deserve that Force India seat, but we all know why it's happened. I just hope that Ericsson stays at Sauber - he deserves to be there next year much more than Nasr does.

Force India have worked with both Wehrlein and Ocon, and have their respective datasets. Ocon's got bags of talent, we can see that from his junior category results, and although he's aided by Mercedes, that won't have been the key factor.

Ericsson and Nasr will both most likely stay at Sauber, and Manor will presumably keep Wehrlein and partner him with someone from GP2; in theory, any one of Giovinazzi, Sirotkin or King could make it.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 10 Nov 2016, 17:34

Ataxia wrote:
Barbazza wrote:Ocon has absolutely nothing in F1 to deserve that Force India seat, but we all know why it's happened. I just hope that Ericsson stays at Sauber - he deserves to be there next year much more than Nasr does.

Force India have worked with both Wehrlein and Ocon, and have their respective datasets. Ocon's got bags of talent, we can see that from his junior category results, and although he's aided by Mercedes, that won't have been the key factor.

Ericsson and Nasr will both most likely stay at Sauber, and Manor will presumably keep Wehrlein and partner him with someone from GP2; in theory, any one of Giovinazzi, Sirotkin or King could make it.

Ocon has been thrown in the deep end at Manor. The car was built for Rio Haryanto not ocon, there is a considerable height difference between the two Ocon had to force his way into the car for the first few races. It is a bit like squeezing Mike and sulley from monsters inc into the same car.

Ocon has improved slightly since Beglium and has done very well in feeder catagoires, besting the demigod that is Max Verstappen and beating Luca Ghiotto to the GP3 title. You don't get onto the Mercedes young diver programme without some talent. Furthermore Wehrlien had all of testing and 10 or so races to get used to the car, something Ocon did not get, having a practice session in a Renualt and a test in a Mercedes.

To you're point Ataxia, does King have the suffient superlicence points to race in f1? Giovanzzi will if he wins gp2 and assumedly Sirotkin will have the points as well, not that I've heard him linked with the Manor drive,

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 10 Nov 2016, 22:39

IIRC they didn't even have a proper seat for Ocon until about his third race...

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 10 Nov 2016, 23:44

Ocon hasn't really impressed me in F1 so far, but he does have a hugely impressive junior record, will be interesting to see how he goes

Post by **Londoner** » 12 Nov 2016, 14:49

Gutierrez throws Haas under the bus.

Carry on Esteban, you're effectively making yourself unemployable in the F1 paddock with comments like this. I will be amazed if he's still in F1 for 2017, given apparently he thoroughly burnt his bridges with Sauber in 2014. Manor is his last hope, and even then I believe they'd rather try and get Haryanto back into the car for 2017. As slow as Rio is, at least he doesn't appear to be arrogant and carry a sense of entitlement like Gutierrez does.

Samster · Post by **Samster** » 12 Nov 2016, 19:42

According to Autosport, Manor has a shortlist of 4 drivers. Wehrlein, Nasr, Gutierrez and Haryanto. Nasr is said to prefer Sauber so out of those I'm hoping for a return to Wehrlein and Haryanto again.

Post by **mario** » 12 Nov 2016, 21:54

Samster wrote:According to Autosport, Manor has a shortlist of 4 drivers. Wehrlein, Nasr, Gutierrez and Haryanto. Nasr is said to prefer Sauber so out of those I'm hoping for a return to Wehrlein and Haryanto again.

If I recall rightly, McNish mentioned in the BBC's radio coverage of the practise sessions that most in the paddock expect that Sauber will keep Nasr and Ericsson for 2017.

That would seem to suggest that the most likely candidates are Wehrlein, Gutierrez and Haryanto - as East Londoner says though, Gutierrez's rather abrasive and entitled attitude is unlikely to endear him to Manor, and the way that Gutierrez was complaining in that article feels a bit like he knows he is on his way out of the sport anyway.

Ataxia wrote:
Barbazza wrote:Ocon has absolutely nothing in F1 to deserve that Force India seat, but we all know why it's happened. I just hope that Ericsson stays at Sauber - he deserves to be there next year much more than Nasr does.

Force India have worked with both Wehrlein and Ocon, and have their respective datasets. Ocon's got bags of talent, we can see that from his junior category results, and although he's aided by Mercedes, that won't have been the key factor.

Ericsson and Nasr will both most likely stay at Sauber, and Manor will presumably keep Wehrlein and partner him with someone from GP2; in theory, any one of Giovinazzi, Sirotkin or King could make it.

Furthermore, there are some whispers from those who worked with him in DTM that suggest that, behind the scenes, Wehrlein is a very difficult driver to work with.

There were hints of that in one practise session where, having spun the car, he was told by his engineers to shut the engine off to stop the car overheating - Wehrlein's response was to start arguing with the team, asking for more time to try and turn the car around even after he'd been told about 5 times to shut the engine off as the water temperature started to hit critical levels.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 13 Nov 2016, 18:05

According with Brazilian tv coverage, Sette Câmara is going to quit Red Bull Young driver programme at the end of the year.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 16 Nov 2016, 20:28

In a continuation of the subject of money problems:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127140/force-india-manor-ask-for-advanced-payment

While I am not worried by Force India - they seem to have a good package and stability that can get them through years of little money - I am somewhat by Manor. While the former will receive serious payment from FOM with its fourth place anyway, Manor aren't in so comfortable a position in terms of car performance or stability. Those Mercedes engines can't be cheap.

Then again, maybe I'm just paranoid and overreacting. I sure hope I am.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 17 Nov 2016, 23:34

Rob Dylan wrote:In a continuation of the subject of money problems:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127140/force-india-manor-ask-for-advanced-payment

While I am not worried by Force India - they seem to have a good package and stability that can get them through years of little money - I am somewhat by Manor. While the former will receive serious payment from FOM with its fourth place anyway, Manor aren't in so comfortable a position in terms of car performance or stability. Those Mercedes engines can't be cheap.

Then again, maybe I'm just paranoid and overreacting. I sure hope I am.

I was under the impression they got the engines for free in exchange for putting Wehrlein in the car?

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 20 Nov 2016, 02:06

Breaking rumor. According with some Brazilian sources (Globo, Folha de São Paulo and others), Banco do Brasil is leaving Sauber and F1 as well. Nasr's seat at Sauber is in danger now.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 20 Nov 2016, 15:03

Dj_bereta wrote:Breaking rumor. According with some Brazilian sources (Globo, Folha de São Paulo and others), Banco do Brasil is leaving Sauber and F1 as well. Nasr's seat at Sauber is in danger now.

He will be terribly, terribly missed.
*Rob Dylan looks up Felipe Nasr's F1 career results*
Wait a second, this guy's not even a reject!

Let's sacrifice him to our God!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 20 Nov 2016, 19:21

Rob Dylan wrote:
Wait a second, this guy's not even a reject!

Let's sacrifice him to our God!

Does HWNSNBM accept sacrifices?

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 21 Nov 2016, 07:29

dr-baker wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:
Wait a second, this guy's not even a reject!

Let's sacrifice him to our God!

Does HWNSNBM accept sacrifices?

Let's find out!

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 21 Nov 2016, 12:31

Dj_bereta wrote:Breaking rumor. According with some Brazilian sources (Globo, Folha de São Paulo and others), Banco do Brasil is leaving Sauber and F1 as well. Nasr's seat at Sauber is in danger now.

Ericsson at least is staying ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38050061

Sauber said they will announce their second driver for 2017 in due course.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 22 Nov 2016, 16:10

And on that note...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127221/wehrlein-frontrunner-for-sauber-second-seat

An Ericsson/Wehrlein Sauber line-up for 2017?

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 22 Nov 2016, 18:40

Rob Dylan wrote:And on that note...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127221/wehrlein-frontrunner-for-sauber-second-seat

An Ericsson/Wehrlein Sauber line-up for 2017?

Can I bet them getting Mercedes engines in 2017 or 2018?

Though if Pascal does leave that could spell trouble for Manor if they want to keep their Mercedes powerplants

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 22 Nov 2016, 19:31

I would hate to see Nasr out. He deserves to be in F1 on talent alone, plus it would be very bad for F1 in Brazil if there were no Brazilians in F1. (I'm not Brazilian, but I have a bit of a soft spot for them.)

Maybe Manor will take him on, but then again I suppose they would also need the Banco do Brasil money.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 22 Nov 2016, 21:53

Ericsson keeping his seat comes as no shock really given his mate owns the team. Is it me, or would longbow f1 or longbow racing be an epic team name?

Post by **Ataxia** » 22 Nov 2016, 22:05

andrew wrote:Ericsson keeping his seat comes as no shock really given his mate owns the team. Is it me, or would longbow f1 or longbow racing be an epic team name?

They'd certainly shine if there was ever a race in Agincourt...

It's not 100% proven that Ericsson's backers own the team; there are plenty of things to suggest that they're involved, but they're keeping the ownership structure very much under wraps. It's a curious move to actively shun the limelight, but there's far more to F1 sponsorship/ownership setups than just brand exposure. Perhaps Tetra Pak (who are rumoured to be involved) are more interested in working with Sauber for case study development, or something to that effect.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 22 Nov 2016, 22:08

Ataxia wrote:
andrew wrote:Ericsson keeping his seat comes as no shock really given his mate owns the team. Is it me, or would longbow f1 or longbow racing be an epic team name?

They'd certainly shine if there was ever a race in Agincourt...

.

That has just made my day.

Post by **Londoner** » 25 Nov 2016, 21:17

Say hello to standing restarts after safety car periods next year

Post by **Nuppiz** » 25 Nov 2016, 22:21

East Londoner wrote:Say hello to standing restarts after safety car periods next year

...Yeah, I think I'll hold firm on my decision that this Sunday will be the last F1 race I'll be watching in a long time.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 25 Nov 2016, 23:11

I'm going to be honest: I liked it.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 25 Nov 2016, 23:38

Nuppiz wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Say hello to standing restarts after safety car periods next year

...Yeah, I think I'll hold firm on my decision that this Sunday will be the last F1 race I'll be watching in a long time.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 26 Nov 2016, 09:43

East Londoner wrote:Say hello to standing restarts after safety car periods next year

I'm happy with the idea.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 26 Nov 2016, 11:52

Aerond wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Say hello to standing restarts after safety car periods next year

I'm happy with the idea.

So am I.

This Could Be You · Post by **This Could Be You** » 26 Nov 2016, 12:08

Erm... In other news, Manor has a new, as yet unnamed investor for 2017, hopefully saving them from financial issues caused by the loss of prize money

On the other hand, Nasr has lost Banco do Brazil sponsorship, meaning Sauber will be back to grey (as I predicted

) and Wehrlein has more of a chance of replacing him, which could be bad news for the Manor Mercedes deal.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 26 Nov 2016, 18:59

It might be a better bet for Wehrlein to stay at Manor than go to Sauber. I'd always liked Sauber until the Monisha era; she seems to make some very odd decisions around finance and driver contracts.

Manor with new investors and a Merc engine sounds far more attractive than Sauber on the edge of financial doom with last years Ferrari engine.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 26 Nov 2016, 19:07

IceG wrote:It might be a better bet for Wehrlein to stay at Manor than go to Sauber. I'd always liked Sauber until the Monisha era; she seems to make some very odd decisions around finance and driver contracts.

Manor with new investors and a Merc engine sounds far more attractive than Sauber on the edge of financial doom with last years Ferrari engine.

Agree 100%. This Sauber is not Sauber I used to like. I root for Pascal to stay.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 27 Nov 2016, 00:04

Can someone explain the hand-wringing over standing starts after safety cars? Why is it bad exactly?

Post by **mario** » 27 Nov 2016, 00:11

solarcold wrote:
IceG wrote:It might be a better bet for Wehrlein to stay at Manor than go to Sauber. I'd always liked Sauber until the Monisha era; she seems to make some very odd decisions around finance and driver contracts.

Manor with new investors and a Merc engine sounds far more attractive than Sauber on the edge of financial doom with last years Ferrari engine.

Agree 100%. This Sauber is not Sauber I used to like. I root for Pascal to stay.

I do have to agree that the team hasn't been quite the same since Kaltenborn took the helm, although a few of the issues which have come to the fore under her tenure had been brewing for a while.

The cash flow issues have been a major problem for years - for example, for about the past three or four years, there have been frequent rumours about Ferrari coming close to cutting off engine supplies to the team because they've not been paid. To a certain extent, some of those financial issues were effectively handed over by Peter Sauber into Kaltenborn's lap, so she was already starting from a difficult position.

However, even though she has had something of a weak hand to work with, I feel that she has played it rather poorly, with the van der Garde affair being perhaps the most egregious example. Even if you take the position that some have, which is that it was an act of necessary ruthlessness to help the teams survive, then she failed to achieve her objectives - between the legal fees and the compensation to van der Garde, the whole incident reportedly ended up costing Sauber money and caused a major cash flow crisis, whilst simultaneously doing major damage to their reputation. Peter Sauber had a few lean years of his own, but he still somehow managed to keep a positive vibe about the team - something that Kaltenborn just doesn't seem to have achieved, and ultimately has made the team hard to like in a number of ways.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 27 Nov 2016, 14:56

AndreaModa wrote:Can someone explain the hand-wringing over standing starts after safety cars? Why is it bad exactly?

Artificial way to get more action. Plus having something as variable as a start makes the already unfair bunching of the field even worse.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 27 Nov 2016, 15:08

AndreaModa wrote:Can someone explain the hand-wringing over standing starts after safety cars? Why is it bad exactly?

The motorsport.com article linked in this topic earlier listed a number of flaws in mid-race standing restarts. One of the major problems is the grip difference between each side of the grid, either due to the presence of tyre marbles (in a dry race) or more water (in a wet race). So basically, one half of the drivers would have a major disadvantage in the restart.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 27 Nov 2016, 21:13

I'll bet you it will happen once or twice and then it'll be abandoned again, just like with the new qualifying format this year (does anyone even remember that? I had long forgotten until I thought of it just now writing this).

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 02 Dec 2016, 13:38

So I thought most of the silly season was over- Nico Rosberg has just opened a prime seat in f1!! Who will get the seat?

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 02 Dec 2016, 13:43

Never has a situation more obviously called for Nick Heidfeld.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 02 Dec 2016, 13:47

Well Mercedes need a top class driver to ensure that they beat Ferrari/Red Bull and possibly even Mclaren. To the extent thay might even buy out some top-notch contracts. They also need some long-term commitment as Hamilton will start to look around if the Mercs struggle next year.

I can't see Ricciardo or Verstappen moving (new rules, Newey) or Raikkonen (too close to retirement) but Vettel might jump ship.

Otherwise its Sainz or possibly Bottas (Williams always being willing to sell a driver rather than succeed).

But realistically I think we are seeing Gutierrez chance

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 02 Dec 2016, 13:49

rachel1990 wrote:So I thought most of the silly season was over- Nico Rosberg has just opened a prime seat in f1!! Who will get the seat?

Or