Grand Prix Rejects

Wizzie wrote:

rffp wrote:I foresee that the F1 Rejects guys will have a hard time by the end of the year writing profiles for USF1, Campos, Bruno Senna and José M. Lopez.

Quick. Create the templetes on the F1 rejects wiki now!
On topic though and personally I can't see Campos or USF1 lasting the season (USF1 would be lucky just to make the grid at Bahrain ) And all of a sudden the second seat at Renault looks like a much better prospect than it really is...

I think USF1 has the money, but not the car ready at time; Campos has the car, but arguably not enough money. They could always merge together if they have problems...

Phoenix wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

rffp wrote:I foresee that the F1 Rejects guys will have a hard time by the end of the year writing profiles for USF1, Campos, Bruno Senna and José M. Lopez.

Quick. Create the templetes on the F1 rejects wiki now!
On topic though and personally I can't see Campos or USF1 lasting the season (USF1 would be lucky just to make the grid at Bahrain ) And all of a sudden the second seat at Renault looks like a much better prospect than it really is...

I think USF1 has the money, but not the car ready at time; Campos has the car, but arguably not enough money. They could always merge together if they have problems...

They also have one driver each right now...

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:They also have one driver each right now...

I have just read a recent rumour that María de Villota is a candidate for the 2nd seat at Campos. Definitely things are not looking good...

rffp wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:They also have one driver each right now...

I have just read a recent rumour that María de Villota is a candidate for the 2nd seat at Campos. Definitely things are not looking good...

that would be FABULOUS for reject purposes

I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

The point is Campos have been blatantly lying to everyone - they've been looking to sell their entry since last year, looking for an exit door, but at the same time trying to rip-off whoever buys it from them.
USF1 may or may not be doomed, but at least they are trying and have signed a truly rejectful driver too

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

We would never do such a thing ... eh, why are you bleeding? *puts knife away ASAP*

No, seriously, I see your point, but you have to admit, that it is really not looking for the team and so I think it's not sooo bad to point it out with a bit of sharpness. I mean, we all wouldn't hate it to see them do well even against such huge odds, but until that happens, one might excuse the 'vileness'. Just like kostas22 said.

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

Welcome to F1 Rejects-where we salute those at the back of the grid and give them the recognition they deserve!




No, seriously, we aren't doing it with truly evil purposes. These are just assumptions that we make going by the latest news we receive from those teams. We can always be very wrong, but who cares? Only time will tell us if we were right or no...

apparently this is the source of the Maria de Villota news

http://www.italiaracing.net/notizia.asp?id=26030&cat=1

They might try - but I can't imagine she would get a superlicence...
Maybe as third driver?

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

I'll add little more to what have been said in defense (at some particular given moments I got that feeling) but truth is that we care more for those guys than anybody else. When we are saying Campos won't reach Bahrein there's a turmoil with equals parts of unparennnial love, the frustration innate of the disappointment, some degree of shakesperean tragedy (everybody always dies in the end) and the greek mithology concept that destiny is inavoidable, specially when terrible. All at the same time.

Edit:
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Please, shoot me in the forehead...

kostas22 wrote:

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

The point is Campos have been blatantly lying to everyone - they've been looking to sell their entry since last year, looking for an exit door, but at the same time trying to rip-off whoever buys it from them.
USF1 may or may not be doomed, but at least they are trying and have signed a truly rejectful driver too

Well put kostas22 - I admit that I am amongst those who have given this team a hard time. The point is, Adrian Campos was going around pretending that he had no money problems, when it was clear to everybody that he was struggling financially, and he is now shamelessly scouring the world for a pay driver. He was acting as if the team was pulling together and working well, at a time when the adverts for vacancies showed that the team was badly understaffed.
And now he is trying to sell the team to Teixeira - a man facing legal action from his creditors, and has had his company delisted from the stock markets, for failing to pay his bills in A1GP (and bear in mind that one of those customers is Ferrari - so I imagine that they would be furious if Campos enters into partnership with Teixeira).

mario wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

The point is Campos have been blatantly lying to everyone - they've been looking to sell their entry since last year, looking for an exit door, but at the same time trying to rip-off whoever buys it from them.
USF1 may or may not be doomed, but at least they are trying and have signed a truly rejectful driver too

Well put kostas22 - I admit that I am amongst those who have given this team a hard time. The point is, Adrian Campos was going around pretending that he had no money problems, when it was clear to everybody that he was struggling financially, and he is now shamelessly scouring the world for a pay driver. He was acting as if the team was pulling together and working well, at a time when the adverts for vacancies showed that the team was badly understaffed.
And now he is trying to sell the team to Teixeira - a man facing legal action from his creditors, and has had his company delisted from the stock markets, for failing to pay his bills in A1GP (and bear in mind that one of those customers is Ferrari - so I imagine that they would be furious if Campos enters into partnership with Teixeira).

a brazillian journalist wrote in his blog that Bernie won't let Teixeira buy the Campos Team unless he pay his A1GP debts

I don't understand the concept of selling any kind of sporting team to someone in masses of debt, but it still happens all the time. On a larger scale than Campos, just look at Man United. They were the best football team in the world but they'd have probably sold Ronaldo for £30-40m to help out with the debt. Now there's rumours of Rooney. I'm sure that any team can keep things swept under the rug for too long.

Adam Carroll has been linked with the second seat position. That would make the driver pairing actually not that bad.
Assuming they manage to race...

coops wrote:Adam Carroll has been linked with the second seat position.

The only reason Carroll has been linked to the drive is because he's the A1 champion and Tony Teixeria is said to be buying into or buying out the team. But Bernie Ecclestone has said that he'll block any move by Teixeria to get into Formula 1 until he's cleared up his A1 debts, and the series went into receivership this week.

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

Well, first this is the F1 Rejects forum, so yes we are indeed interested in failures. And Campos and USF1 have all the potential to be here, this is not our wishful thinking, but a simple analysis of what those two teams have presented so far.

Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

rffp wrote:

dragonsteincole wrote:I find it a little worrying about the state of the forum that most people are all too eager to instantly rubbish and kick someone or something when it's down, under the thin veil of "it'll be something new for the website." It's a little out of place and actually a little worrying that people would be so happy to stick the knives in when a team is percieved to be struggling.

Well, first this is the F1 Rejects forum, so yes we are indeed interested in failures. And Campos and USF1 have all the potential to be here, this is not our wishful thinking, but a simple analysis of what those two teams have presented so far.

Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

I think saying they deserve their asses to be kicked is a bit extreme. They're admittedly doing this with their best intentions and a lot of illusion, just like illustrious reject teams such as Coloni or Osella. They deserve a bit (but only a bit ) of respect after all.

Phoenix wrote:Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

I think saying they deserve their asses to be kicked is a bit extreme. They're admittedly doing this with their best intentions and a lot of illusion, just like illustrious reject teams such as Coloni or Osella. They deserve a bit (but only a bit ) of respect after all.[/quote]

And respect should be given to other candidates that apparently had more conditions than them. Maybe, if another team was chosen then we would have a more up to the challenge driver than Lopez and possibly the other two pay-drivers they will be hiring.
Besides, it is not a question of if they deserve or not, it is clear now that they will get their butts (or asses) kicked starting at Bahrein.

I have about 100 times more faith in USF1 than Campos at this point.
USF1 may only be starting to jump on the publicocrap bandwagon, but at least theirs is (seeimgly mostly) the truth and not hot air from Adrian Compost and Tony Texas Oil Merchant.
Stefan GP didn't buy the entry from Campos because of the extortionate price they were charging for it...when they could pay a fraction of a price for it from the FIA once Campos is forced to give theirs up completely.
And of course - maybe there is a possibility Campos will fail to turn up at Round 1 - go bankrupt, leave F1 and Stefan can resume their place by Round 2 or 3 via approval by the FIA?

i think that campos has a better machine than USF1. too bad they have no $$$... i think they'll get "surprise bought" at a low price after 3 races.

rffp wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

I think saying they deserve their asses to be kicked is a bit extreme. They're admittedly doing this with their best intentions and a lot of illusion, just like illustrious reject teams such as Coloni or Osella. They deserve a bit (but only a bit ) of respect after all.

And respect should be given to other candidates that apparently had more conditions than them. Maybe, if another team was chosen then we would have a more up to the challenge driver than Lopez and possibly the other two pay-drivers they will be hiring.
Besides, it is not a question of if they deserve or not, it is clear now that they will get their butts (or asses) kicked starting at Bahrein.[/quote]
Yeah, but the choice is made. They may not be top-class projects, but at least they're no Life or Andrea Moda. Heck, Super Aguri was waaaay cheaper when they started, using a 4-year old chassis that wasn't competitive even back in the day. Next year, they were troubling Honda badly, which ultimately would lead to their demise. We can mock about them a bit, but I do think they can improve to a good level.

rffp wrote:
Well, first this is the F1 Rejects forum, so yes we are indeed interested in failures. And Campos and USF1 have all the potential to be here, this is not our wishful thinking, but a simple analysis of what those two teams have presented so far.

Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

Berths from Whom??.............Prodrive?.....They were Given a Spot on the Grid 2 years ago, How did their Last 2 season go..oh thats Right they NEVER FREAKIN SHOWED UP!.....The Teams that were chosen were Picked for a reason, aside from the whole Cossie thing.......

And I REALLY Love how Campos and USF1 have all the Potential to be here, based on a Simple analysis of what they've presented so far..............What has Lotus or Virgin presented so far to show they're NOT reject worthy?

rffp wrote:Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point here. Campos aren't failing because they were never prepared in the first place. Campos are failing because they grossly over-estimated the he public's desire to see a Spanish team and the corporate desire to sponsor one. They set an operating budget of forty-eight million Euros, and have failed to meet it. Lotus have an operating budget of fifty-five, so do you seriously expect me to beleive that seven million Euros is the difference between success and failure in a sport where teams have spent four hundred million dollars in a season and walked away from it with just ten points to their credit? And if so, how do you explain Virgin's position, given that they're shaping up just as well as Lotus is despite pledging to work on "less than forty million Euros"?

Adrian Campos wanted a Spanish racing team, which seems sensible given that the country is undergoing the throes of Alonsomania. But it's called Alonsomania - not Spanishdrivermania - for a reason: they care about Alonso. There are three Spanish drivers on the grid this season, but Jaime Alguersuari and Pedro de la Rosa both got the meanest fraction of press coverage that Alonso does. Campos expected Spanish support, and has gotten virtually none. The only major deal we know of is an arrangement with the Murcia regional government to establish a permanent base in the region, and it's only worth three million Euros. There is simply no interest from Spanish sponsors, especially considering that Spain has not endured the global recession very well. To make matters worse, Campos signed Bruno Senna for free in the hopes that his name could attract Spanish and Brazilian sponsors, but no-one has bitten. Even Senna's personal sponsor, Embratel, is unwilling to lend their name to the team.

Campos is not failing because the FIA chosethe wrong team. In fact, on paper, Campos was probably one of the strongest candidates: Campos himself is a former driver - no other prosective principal was - and he has run a highly-sucessful team in the open-wheel racing series considered second only to Formula One and he comes from Spain, which, as stated, is experiencing its own Formula One rennaisance. But the team has been constantly and consistently mis-managed. Not only did they over-estimate the publi and corporate support for the team, err in signing Senna for nothing, but they have failed to secure the likes of Vitaly Petrov and Pastor Maldonado despite both drivers having over ten million Euros - a good 20% of the team's operating budget - at their disposal. They didn't "steal" the grid slots from anyone. Campos won a place on the grid on their merits, but have since proven to be unwilling or unable to handle the corporate reality of the sport.

It also didnt help them that the budget cap idea got blown out of the water after they signed up...

Fitch wrote:

rffp wrote:
Well, first this is the F1 Rejects forum, so yes we are indeed interested in failures. And Campos and USF1 have all the potential to be here, this is not our wishful thinking, but a simple analysis of what those two teams have presented so far.

Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

Berths from Whom??.............Prodrive?.....They were Given a Spot on the Grid 2 years ago, How did their Last 2 season go..oh thats Right they NEVER FREAKIN SHOWED UP!.....The Teams that were chosen were Picked for a reason, aside from the whole Cossie thing.......

And I REALLY Love how Campos and USF1 have all the Potential to be here, based on a Simple analysis of what they've presented so far..............What has Lotus or Virgin presented so far to show they're NOT reject worthy?

Their websites. It's about the only vaguely tangible thing that anyone has to go on.

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:Second, they both deserve to have their butts kicked! These guys snatched the berths of possibly more competent entrants who could actually give a better chance to Bruno Senna or even spare us from seeing drivers being pulled out of the motor-netherworld.

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point here. Campos aren't failing because they were never prepared in the first place. Campos are failing because they grossly over-estimated the he public's desire to see a Spanish team and the corporate desire to sponsor one. They set an operating budget of forty-eight million Euros, and have failed to meet it. Lotus have an operating budget of fifty-five, so do you seriously expect me to beleive that seven million Euros is the difference between success and failure in a sport where teams have spent four hundred million dollars in a season and walked away from it with just ten points to their credit? And if so, how do you explain Virgin's position, given that they're shaping up just as well as Lotus is despite pledging to work on "less than forty million Euros"?

Well, if they based their future budget on desire and possible intentions, then their strategic plan was flawed, hence they lacked competence. But then, it is my opinion.

And I still don't understand what criteria were used to select USF1.

Collieafc wrote:It also didnt help them that the budget cap idea got blown out of the water after they signed up...

Now, if anyone planned a F-1 future based on that flawed idea, well they deserve to have no future.

rffp wrote:Well, if they based their future budget on desire and possible intentions, then their strategic plan was flawed, hence they lacked competence. But then, it is my opinion.

That's not a case of lacking competence - every other team would have done the same. It was a condition of the selection process for teams to demonstrate how they intended to fund themselves through sponsorship.

rffp wrote:And I still don't understand what criteria were used to select USF1.

The same as everyone else. Contrary to popular believe, USF1 have actually given us a lot of evidence. We have seen their factory, but we have not seen anyone else's. We have seen diagrams of their car, something we haven't seen from the other teams. And we've seen life-size parts, which no other team has shown. USF1 is funded by Chad Hurley, and they have acquired a fair amount from Lopez. The theory that they will not make the Bahrain race is born out of a dislike of Americans in general and Peter Windsor in particular. Nothing more. I guarantee that when they show up in Bahrain, people will be expecting them to win because Brawn did it. Not because they want to see USF1 succeed, but because they want the team to fail by setting unreasonably high expectations.

I was thinking do u think that Adrian Campos underestmaited the work done to F1 eg sponsors cars drivers engineers just the whole prepation?

Captain Hammer wrote:Contrary to popular believe, USF1 have actually given us a lot of evidence. We have seen their factory, but we have not seen anyone else's. We have seen diagrams of their car, something we haven't seen from the other teams. And we've seen life-size parts, which no other team has shown. USF1 is funded by Chad Hurley, and they have acquired a fair amount from Lopez. The theory that they will not make the Bahrain race is born out of a dislike of Americans in general and Peter Windsor in particular. Nothing more. I guarantee that when they show up in Bahrain, people will be expecting them to win because Brawn did it. Not because they want to see USF1 succeed, but because they want the team to fail by setting unreasonably high expectations.

Well, that makes me think maybe we've underestimated them. If they have the car by early February, as they promised, they may be minimally competitive come the first round.

No. He knows what it takes to run a team, and run it well. Although all GP2 cars are equal on paper, the reality is different: who you race for counts for a lot. In its time, Campos Grand Prix was one of the four best teams in GP2 (along with ART, Racing Engineering and iSport; since Campos sold to Alejandro Agag, Barwa Addax has taken Campos' place in the top four), so it's not a problem with logistics. He simply fundamentally over-estimated public and corporate support for a team in a time when the nation was in the grid of a major global economic recession.

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:Well, if they based their future budget on desire and possible intentions, then their strategic plan was flawed, hence they lacked competence. But then, it is my opinion.

That's not a case of lacking competence - every other team would have done the same. It was a condition of the selection process for teams to demonstrate how they intended to fund themselves through sponsorship.

Well, I beg to differ from your point of view.

Captain Hammer wrote:The same as everyone else. Contrary to popular believe, USF1 have actually given us a lot of evidence. We have seen their factory, but we have not seen anyone else's. We have seen diagrams of their car, something we haven't seen from the other teams. And we've seen life-size parts, which no other team has shown. USF1 is funded by Chad Hurley, and they have acquired a fair amount from Lopez. The theory that they will not make the Bahrain race is born out of a dislike of Americans in general and Peter Windsor in particular. Nothing more. I guarantee that when they show up in Bahrain, people will be expecting them to win because Brawn did it. Not because they want to see USF1 succeed, but because they want the team to fail by setting unreasonably high expectations.

I do NOT dislike Americans, but I do not believe in USF1. We have seen youtube of videos and from what I heard the autoclave shown was a phony one. They intended to sign an American driver and so far they signed a foreign driver pulled out of the motor netherworld. I will keep my skeptcism until proven wrong.

Captain Hammer wrote:No. He knows what it takes to run a team, and run it well. Although all GP2 cars are equal on paper, the reality is different: who you race for counts for a lot. In its time, Campos Grand Prix was one of the four best teams in GP2 (along with ART, Racing Engineering and iSport; since Campos sold to Alejandro Agag, Barwa Addax has taken Campos' place in the top four), so it's not a problem with logistics. He simply fundamentally over-estimated public and corporate support for a team in a time when the nation was in the grid of a major global economic recession.

Completely agree. And also agree with the earlier comment about Alonso-mania versus Spanish-driver-mania. The other thing which one needs to remember is that the Spanish tradition in four-wheeled motorsport is not strong, especially compared to the nation's tradition in motorbikes. So, unlike some other countries, there is also not much history of Spanish companies supporting four-wheeled motorsport generally.

Also, I think it is worth pointing out that Alonso is not the only nascent Spanish sporting superhero in the last few years. There's also been the rise of this generation of Spanish footballers and also Rafael Nadal. So if Spanish corporations are looking for a marketable sporting investment (that's if they have money to throw around after the GFC), they don't have to look to motorsport.

rffp wrote:They intended to sign an American driver and so far they signed a foreign driver pulled out of the motor netherworld.

No, they intend to sign an American driver. Maybe not this year, but they want one for 2011. They have not signed one for 2010 for two reasons: 1) none of them qualify for superlicences 2) it would be better to drop an inexperienced (F1-wise) driver into an experienced team than to drop and inexperienced driver into an inexperienced team. Waiting a season to find their way as a team maximises the chances of an American driver succeeding.

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:They intended to sign an American driver and so far they signed a foreign driver pulled out of the motor netherworld.

No, they intend to sign an American driver. Maybe not this year, but they want one for 2011. They have not signed one for 2010 for two reasons: 1) none of them qualify for superlicences 2) it would be better to drop an inexperienced (F1-wise) driver into an experienced team than to drop and inexperienced driver into an inexperienced team. Waiting a season to find their way as a team maximises the chances of an American driver succeeding.

Well, and what exactly is USF1 doing to ready that driver for 2011? Are they supporting Jonathan Summerton's career? Or John Edwards? Or someone else? Or are they waiting for an American driver to obtain the superlicense by the grace of god?

And are they going to make it into the 2011 season?

Maybe they could bring an inexperienced driver along an experienced one. But their inexperienced driver is no Yankee...

rffp wrote:Well, and what exactly is USF1 doing to ready that driver for 2011? Are they supporting Jonathan Summerton's career? Or John Edwards? Or someone else? Or are they waiting for an American driver to obtain the superlicense by the grace of god?

They haven't done anything yet because they have more important things on their minds. Like maybe getting the team ready for the 2010 season. It's all well and good to support an American driver through the lower ranks, but it'll be for nothing if there is no USF1 because the team were more interested in supporting an American driver than actually getting their team ready.

rffp wrote:And are they going to make it into the 2011 season?

What sort of a stupid question is that? And why aren't you asking it of Lotus, Campos, Virgin or Toro Rosso? Or any of the teams, for that matter?

You should probably know that one of the criteria for selecting the new teams was to demonstrate their long-term stability.

rffp wrote:Maybe they could bring an inexperienced driver along an experienced one.

No, because that won't change the fact that the team is inexperienced.

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:Well, and what exactly is USF1 doing to ready that driver for 2011? Are they supporting Jonathan Summerton's career? Or John Edwards? Or someone else? Or are they waiting for an American driver to obtain the superlicense by the grace of god?

They haven't done anything yet because they have more important things on their minds. Like maybe getting the team ready for the 2010 season. It's all well and good to support an American driver through the lower ranks, but it'll be for nothing if there is no USF1 because the team were more interested in supporting an American driver than actually getting their team ready.

Well, that means that also for 2011, there will be no American driver with superlicense, unless they pull someone out of IRL...

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:And are they going to make it into the 2011 season?

What sort of a stupid question is that? And why aren't you asking it of Lotus, Campos, Virgin or Toro Rosso? Or any of the teams, for that matter?

You should probably know that one of the criteria for selecting the new teams was to demonstrate their long-term stability.

I think it is a reasonable doubt. I wasn't talking about those other teams, and none of them have mock autoclaves in their youtube videos.

As for the criteria, I already expressed my opinion about these.

rffp wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

rffp wrote:Well, and what exactly is USF1 doing to ready that driver for 2011? Are they supporting Jonathan Summerton's career? Or John Edwards? Or someone else? Or are they waiting for an American driver to obtain the superlicense by the grace of god?

They haven't done anything yet because they have more important things on their minds. Like maybe getting the team ready for the 2010 season. It's all well and good to support an American driver through the lower ranks, but it'll be for nothing if there is no USF1 because the team were more interested in supporting an American driver than actually getting their team ready.

Well, that means that also for 2011, there will be no American driver with superlicense, unless they pull someone out of IRL...

Not true......JR Hildebrand and Jonathan Summerton have both been linked to possible GP2 drives this year.........

USF1 stated their Desire to run an American driver, even if they don't run one until the 2025 Season, it won't matter, All that matters is that they do run one eventually........Racing in the US is different then in Europe or European type cultures.....Open Wheel Road Racing isn't as popular as it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's..........and most road Racers are Sports Car drivers anyways.....

The problem is, as Captain Hammer pointed out, and As I've said before, everyone seems to want to shite all over USf1 because they're An American Based Team or because people don't like Pete Windsor........and are going to set unrealistic Goals or Impossible ones and then judge them on that.............If USF1 were the Only new team that survived the 2010 season people would still find a reason to shite all over them.......The Truth is, NO ONE knows how USF1 will do, just like NO ONE knows how Ferrari, or McLaren, or Sauber, or Mercedes, or Torro Rosso, or Renault, or who ever will do this season.....for all we know Ferrari could pull out of Formula 1 at the end of this season.........You just don't know.......and trying to make claims about a team based on the fact that they said they wanted an American driver and aren't going to have one their First season, is nothing less then grabbing at straws in an attempt to find something to Bitch about........

As far as the Whole Fake Autoclave thing...who the bathplug cares?.......As long as they have one in time to finish the cars......I'm convinced that USF1 isn't telling everyone everything........Peter and Ken said they wanted to run the Team in the Style of Lockheed's famed Skunk Works....using a small team of highly specialized people.....well the Skunk Works is also highly Secretive about what they do, and I suspect some of that has rubbed off on them........It's the same as the Whole Sauber deal......the Team has more important things to worry about then changing their name or making websites...

Fitch wrote: Not true......JR Hildebrand and Jonathan Summerton have both been linked to possible GP2 drives this year.........

Alexander Rossi is on his way forward as well.

Fitch wrote:(Rant about USF1's detractors/autoclave authenticity)

Here's another clincher: from USF1's youtube channel, we know they have PEOPLE working for them. Actual people - I don't think they're actors because they're not dolled up and unshaven (preseason beards?)

excuse me for this slight off topic but I gotta get this off my chest.

Fitch: Your style of posting is EXTREMELY IRRITATING!

Ridiculous amounts of dots, random capitalization of letters in the midst of sentences and generally long unbroken sentences.

The English language is crying for mercy from your post, and the fact that you are a native speaker of the language makes your offence even worse!