Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **14 May 2009, 09:34**

and USGPE will have to find not 1 but 2!! drivers thin enough to fit into a F1 car....

Posted: **14 May 2009, 10:04**

StoneColdSpider wrote:and USGPE will have to find not 1 but 2!! drivers thin enough to fit into a F1 car....

That will go down in the list of memorable forum statements :lol:

And although this may sound a bit odd for a possibile driver choice but that guy who drove for A1GP Canada a few years back seemed decent... was his name James Hitchcliff or something like that?

Posted: **14 May 2009, 15:03**

This is a rather unexpected one, isn't it? If they have a Mike Gascoyne-designed car, they could be off to a good start...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75305

Posted: **14 May 2009, 15:49**

There was another F3 team a few years ago that was going to make the jump, Ultimate Motorsport. Possibly linked with Gerhard Berger, the project was going to buy Toro Rosso if I'm not mistaken. It seems that idea was scrapped, but with the mention of all these new teams, isn't Toro Rosso still up for sale?

Posted: **14 May 2009, 16:35**

I hope they change their name.

Posted: **15 May 2009, 00:06**

Paul Hayes wrote:If they have a Mike Gascoyne-designed car, they could be off to a good start...

Like the good start Spyker had?

Posted: **15 May 2009, 02:12**

Captain Hammer wrote:
Paul Hayes wrote:If they have a Mike Gascoyne-designed car, they could be off to a good start...

Like the good start Spyker had?

Now now, Spyker's chassis had a lot of Midland's influence in it.

Posted: **15 May 2009, 04:40**

And I assume that by that logic, Force India's chassis had a lot of Spyker influence?

If so, hw do you explain Gascoyne's lack of results when he was at Toyota?

Posted: **15 May 2009, 05:47**

Captain Hammer wrote:And I assume that by that logic, Force India's chassis had a lot of Spyker influence?

If so, hw do you explain Gascoyne's lack of results when he was at Toyota?

A lack of budgetary constraints...

Posted: **15 May 2009, 06:01**

Okay, now you're just making excuses. Gascoyne might be a credible designer, but his presence does not assure teams like Litespeed of instant success.

Posted: **15 May 2009, 09:45**

Captain Hammer wrote:Okay, now you're just making excuses. Gascoyne might be a credible designer, but his presence does not assure teams like Litespeed of instant success.

I wasn't suggesting they were going to come in and do a Brawn. Just saying that, well, there are worse places to start from than having a Mike Gascoyne-designed car.

But I have my doubts as to whether this entry will eventually materialise, in any case. People round here seem quite interested, though - it's been 15 years since the county lost Lotus.

Posted: **15 May 2009, 11:45**

Paul Hayes wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Okay, now you're just making excuses. Gascoyne might be a credible designer, but his presence does not assure teams like Litespeed of instant success.

I wasn't suggesting they were going to come in and do a Brawn. Just saying that, well, there are worse places to start from than having a Mike Gascoyne-designed car.

Three teams, three persisitent failures. Unless it's with Nick Wirth, I can't see how a team could start off worse.

Posted: **19 May 2009, 16:40**

RejectSteve wrote:There was another F3 team a few years ago that was going to make the jump, Ultimate Motorsport. Possibly linked with Gerhard Berger, the project was going to buy Toro Rosso if I'm not mistaken. It seems that idea was scrapped, but with the mention of all these new teams, isn't Toro Rosso still up for sale?

I believe Toro Rosso is in the process of expanding its facilities in order to build its own chassis next year...if the current situation is resolved.

Posted: **19 May 2009, 17:13**

Somehow, it's a little likely that USGPE won't hire neither Scott Speed nor AJ Allmendinger, because they are not available. What they really need is somebody not afraid to be employed in some kind of a capacity that Yuji Ide filled at Super Aguri or Ricardo Zonta filled at BAR, the sideman to their #1 driver, the driver of the 2nd car in a one car team.
So I don't think any of the young guns in US open wheel feeder series would be interested. Instead, I'd say it's rather likely that it would be somebody with experience in Indy Cars who doesn't have a regular drive, but at least has some experience in European series. Townsend Bell comes to mind.
Pairing him with Bourdais, should he become available for 2010, would be a possibility. But what can Bourdais bring to a new team? Maybe they should consider somebody with more (good) F1 experience?

I hear Adam Carroll being mentioned together with one of the forthcoming British teams. He deserves to get a good car, so even the already existing teams should consider him.

Posted: **19 May 2009, 17:57**

RejectSteve wrote:There was another F3 team a few years ago that was going to make the jump, Ultimate Motorsport. Possibly linked with Gerhard Berger, the project was going to buy Toro Rosso if I'm not mistaken. It seems that idea was scrapped, but with the mention of all these new teams, isn't Toro Rosso still up for sale?

I heard that rumour in Autosport magazine. The journalist suggested the team would then have to be named "Ultimate Berger". Sounds good enough to eat...

Posted: **19 May 2009, 18:53**

dr-baker wrote:
RejectSteve wrote:There was another F3 team a few years ago that was going to make the jump, Ultimate Motorsport. Possibly linked with Gerhard Berger, the project was going to buy Toro Rosso if I'm not mistaken. It seems that idea was scrapped, but with the mention of all these new teams, isn't Toro Rosso still up for sale?

I heard that rumour in Autosport magazine. The journalist suggested the team would then have to be named "Ultimate Berger". Sounds good enough to eat...

But then they realized that the name would be even dumber than Super Aguri and quickly forgot about it?

Posted: **19 May 2009, 19:15**

dr-baker wrote:
RejectSteve wrote:There was another F3 team a few years ago that was going to make the jump, Ultimate Motorsport. Possibly linked with Gerhard Berger, the project was going to buy Toro Rosso if I'm not mistaken. It seems that idea was scrapped, but with the mention of all these new teams, isn't Toro Rosso still up for sale?

I heard that rumour in Autosport magazine. The journalist suggested the team would then have to be named "Ultimate Berger". Sounds good enough to eat...

I guess the team wouldn't like it very much if I just showed up to the facility one with day with Ketchup, beer in tow.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 10:43**

Former grand prix boss Nick Wirth, sportscar team Epsilon Euskadi, leading race car engineering company Ray Mallock Limited and GP2 outfit Campos Racing have joined the list of outfits confirming plans to compete in Formula 1 next year, AUTOSPORT has learned.

Although only a handful of outfits have gone public with their intention to make the step into F1 in 2010, a more expanded list of candidates emerged from the French courts on Tuesday during the hearing to discuss Ferrari's bid to get an injunction on next year's rules.

As part of the defence from the FIA that such an injunction would wreck the plans of new teams to make the jump to F1, AUTOSPORT understands that a number of letters were presented from new teams saying that any delay to them getting the go-ahead for 2010 plans would force them to abandon their efforts.

According to sources, the list of teams that were looking at moving to F1 were Lola, USF1, Wirth Research, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos Racing and iSport.

Another two outfits have also expressed an interest in moving up to F1. British F3 team Litespeed issued a statement declaring its intention to apply for an entry, while Prodrive has also admitted to be considering the move.

However, in recent days Prodrive boss David Richards has suggested that uncertainty over the 2010 regulations was forcing him to consider a rethink about his plans.

"The new regulations announced by the FIA are very much in line with what we were expecting and, I believe, have the potential to allow a team to be commercially viable and competitive on a far more realistic budget," he told GPWeek.

"However, we are very concerned about the controversy these proposals have created with the existing teams and the uncertainty that this has created."

Bernie Ecclestone has also talked about a second team from the United States expressing an interest.

FIA president Max Mosley made it clear last week that the governing body was unwilling to compromise on its plans for a £40 million voluntary budget cap because it was vital that new teams came into F1.

"If we wait any longer, we won't have any new teams because it is too late for them to come," he said. "I think there was an element among the FOTA teams hoping to delay until the point where there could be no new teams.

"I think we now have 11 organisations that say they want to come in, of whom seven are serious. So it will be interesting to see what happens."

Should Ferrari's injunction application be successful, then it will mean that all the 2010 regulations introduced by the FIA last month will be on hold - including the fact that the entry list for the 2010 championship closes on May 29.

With the matter likely to go to appeal whichever side wins, the delay in the entry list closure will buy manufacturer teams more time to propose alternative regulations to the FIA – even though it could force new entrants to abandon efforts.

A decision from the French courts is expected at 2pm local time on Wednesday.

FROM: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75440

So these are the teams which we could possibly see in future:
-i Sport
-US GP Engineering
-Lola
-Prodrive
-Litespeed
-Racing Engineering
-Wirth Research
-Epsilon Euskadi
-RML
-Formtech
-Campos Racing

Four of these teams will join in 2010.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 10:53**

Yay! Return of Simtek! (sort of) :mrgreen:

Posted: **20 May 2009, 11:18**

If all that lot joined (and I don't think they will), you'd only need two of the current teams to stay to get the FIA's desired 26-car grid.

We could indeed be in reject heaven this time next year.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 11:44**

Who the hell is Formtech?

Posted: **20 May 2009, 11:47**

And I see that David Richards is 're-thinking' his entry. B*stard. He committed to joining in 2008 and pulled out, when someone else could have taken that entry and done something with it.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 12:40**

Faustus wrote:And I see that David Richards is 're-thinking' his entry. B*stard. He committed to joining in 2008 and pulled out, when someone else could have taken that entry and done something with it.

Actually, that's not what happened at all. Prodrive were setting themselves up to appear in 2008, and Richards even had a major sponsor lined up - "someone who had never before been invovled in Formula One" - that he was set to announce at the British Grand Prix. But Prodrive's entry hinged on their ability to purchase a chassis from another team, and when the row over the legality of customer chassis meant that it was impossible for the team to purchase them, Prodrive were left with no choice but to forgo their 2008 entry. Through no fault of their own, they simply could not make the grid; Richards had admitted from the very beginning that if Prodrive were to appear, purchasing a chassis was the only way they would be able to do it. And then when Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams said no to customer chassis, the end was nigh.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 13:00**

Captain Hammer wrote:
Faustus wrote:And I see that David Richards is 're-thinking' his entry. B*stard. He committed to joining in 2008 and pulled out, when someone else could have taken that entry and done something with it.

Actually, that's not what happened at all. Prodrive were setting themselves up to appear in 2008, and Richards even had a major sponsor lined up - "someone who had never before been involved in Formula One" - that he was set to announce at the British Grand Prix. But Prodrive's entry hinged on their ability to purchase a chassis from another team, and when the row over the legality of customer chassis meant that it was impossible for the team to purchase them, Prodrive were left with no choice but to forgo their 2008 entry. Through no fault of their own, they simply could not make the grid; Richards had admitted from the very beginning that if Prodrive were to appear, purchasing a chassis was the only way they would be able to do it. And then when Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams said no to customer chassis, the end was nigh.

The customer chassis issue has been used as a convenient excuse. If Prodrive really wanted to be on the grid in 2008, a deal could have been reached with another team for a deal similar to the Red Bull / Toro Rosso situation. Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams did not say no to customer chassis, they said no to customer chassis in the way that Prodrive wanted to do it. It was a convenient excuse to bail out of a commitment. Another of the 11 teams was not granted the entry could have overtaken that obstacle. The only good thing about it this time around is that he hasn't commited to joining yet.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 13:03**

Faustus wrote:Who the hell is Formtech?

Just done a very quick Google search and it turns out that Formtech are the ones who bought the assets to Soooooooooooper Aguri.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 13:04**

according to a ferrari press release all the news teams will be basically shite/ reject teams that have no money and no one has every heard of them.

Will these teams need to pay the 20 or so million pound bond to bernie ???
Is this just bernie wanting to make money as he knows most will fail

Posted: **20 May 2009, 13:06**

but toro rossos dont technecally have customer chassis as there chassis and red bulls are made by rb technologies which owns both teams.
How could max not allow customer chassis when his team march made billions of the things

Posted: **20 May 2009, 13:15**

noshpit wrote:but toro rossos dont technecally have customer chassis as there chassis and red bulls are made by rb technologies which owns both teams.
How could max not allow customer chassis when his team march made billions of the things

And if David Richards wanted to, he could have set-up a similar deal with another team in 2008.
I think customer chassis should be allowed, provided that the team can demonstrate that they intend to build their own chassis within, say, 3 years.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 15:39**

noshpit wrote:Will these teams need to pay the 20 or so million pound bond to bernie ???
Is this just bernie wanting to make money as he knows most will fail

Under the new regulations, the bond will no longer exist and the FIA will subsidise new teams.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 15:43**

Former grand prix boss Nick Wirth, sportscar team Epsilon Euskadi, leading race car engineering company Ray Mallock Limited and GP2 outfit Campos Racing have joined the list of outfits confirming plans to compete in Formula 1 next year, AUTOSPORT has learned.

Although only a handful of outfits have gone public with their intention to make the step into F1 in 2010, a more expanded list of candidates emerged from the French courts on Tuesday during the hearing to discuss Ferrari's bid to get an injunction on next year's rules.

As part of the defence from the FIA that such an injunction would wreck the plans of new teams to make the jump to F1, AUTOSPORT understands that a number of letters were presented from new teams saying that any delay to them getting the go-ahead for 2010 plans would force them to abandon their efforts.

According to sources, the list of teams that were looking at moving to F1 were Lola, USF1, Wirth Research, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos Racing and iSport.

Another two outfits have also expressed an interest in moving up to F1. British F3 team Litespeed issued a statement declaring its intention to apply for an entry, while Prodrive has also admitted to be considering the move.

However, in recent days Prodrive boss David Richards has suggested that uncertainty over the 2010 regulations was forcing him to consider a rethink about his plans.

"The new regulations announced by the FIA are very much in line with what we were expecting and, I believe, have the potential to allow a team to be commercially viable and competitive on a far more realistic budget," he told GPWeek.

"However, we are very concerned about the controversy these proposals have created with the existing teams and the uncertainty that this has created."

Bernie Ecclestone has also talked about a second team from the United States expressing an interest.

FIA president Max Mosley made it clear last week that the governing body was unwilling to compromise on its plans for a £40 million voluntary budget cap because it was vital that new teams came into F1.

"If we wait any longer, we won't have any new teams because it is too late for them to come," he said. "I think there was an element among the FOTA teams hoping to delay until the point where there could be no new teams.

"I think we now have 11 organisations that say they want to come in, of whom seven are serious. So it will be interesting to see what happens."

Should Ferrari's injunction application be successful, then it will mean that all the 2010 regulations introduced by the FIA last month will be on hold - including the fact that the entry list for the 2010 championship closes on May 29.

With the matter likely to go to appeal whichever side wins, the delay in the entry list closure will buy manufacturer teams more time to propose alternative regulations to the FIA – even though it could force new entrants to abandon efforts.

A decision from the French courts is expected at 2pm local time on Wednesday.

FROM: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75440

Posted: **20 May 2009, 15:43**

So these are the teams which we could possibly see in future:
-i Sport
-US GP Engineering
-Lola
-Prodrive
-Litespeed
-Racing Engineering
-Wirth Research
-Epsilon Euskadi
-RML
-Formtech
-Campos Racing

Four of these teams will join in 2010.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 16:25**

The prospect of a completely reject grid beckons. Jamie and Enoch will need extra help next year.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 17:16**

Nin13 wrote:So these are the teams which we could possibly see in future:
-i Sport
-US GP Engineering
-Lola
-Prodrive
-Litespeed
-Racing Engineering
-Wirth Research
-Epsilon Euskadi
-RML
-Formtech
-Campos Racing

Four of these teams will join in 2010.

Feel free to take Racing Engineering out of the list. It won't happen. The race engineers are very good mates of mine and I worked with Racing Engineering for a couple of races last year. The Racing Engineering entry is all talk.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 18:00**

Faustus wrote:Feel free to take Racing Engineering out of the list. It won't happen. The race engineers are very good mates of mine and I worked with Racing Engineering for a couple of races last year. The Racing Engineering entry is all talk.

Not quite. According to an interview to GPupdate, they only intend to enter F1 in 2011.

I'd like to know what Epsilon Euskadi is doing in there. They're a Formula Renault and 24h Le Mans team which just keeps getting worse and worse. I know them from the time they had Filipe Albuquerque and they don't deserve to be in F1.

Posted: **20 May 2009, 18:04**

Aren't Epsilon the outfit USF1 were planning to rent space from to use as their European HQ?

Posted: **20 May 2009, 18:07**

Henrique wrote:
Faustus wrote:Feel free to take Racing Engineering out of the list. It won't happen. The race engineers are very good mates of mine and I worked with Racing Engineering for a couple of races last year. The Racing Engineering entry is all talk.

Not quite. According to an interview to GPupdate, they only intend to enter F1 in 2011.

I'd like to know what Epsilon Euskadi is doing in there. They're a Formula Renault and 24h Le Mans team which just keeps getting worse and worse. I know them from the time they had Filipe Albuquerque and they don't deserve to be in F1.

I spoke to them. Trust me. They don't have the facilities or equipment to enter F1 even in 2011. It's part of a plan to generate more interest in the media, particularly the Spanish media, and get more sponsors.

Paul Hayes wrote:Aren't Epsilon the outfit USF1 were planning to rent space from to use as their European HQ?

Yup. I wonder if something happened betweem USF1 and Epsilon?

Posted: **20 May 2009, 18:54**

I don't think that we can expect many of those teams from that list to put forward serious entries, and I feel that a lot of the proposed entries from GP2 teams are very much speculative affairs, so I don't expect to see any of them on the grid next year.

As for the potential return of Simtek/Wirth Research, I just hope that Mr Wirth doesn't get involved in the design of their cars (should their entry be accepted or even submitted, which I find doubtful), remember the 1999 Benetton he designed.....

Posted: **21 May 2009, 00:30**

Faustus wrote:The customer chassis issue has been used as a convenient excuse. If Prodrive really wanted to be on the grid in 2008, a deal could have been reached with another team for a deal similar to the Red Bull / Toro Rosso situation. Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams did not say no to customer chassis, they said no to customer chassis in the way that Prodrive wanted to do it. It was a convenient excuse to bail out of a commitment. Another of the 11 teams was not granted the entry could have overtaken that obstacle. The only good thing about it this time around is that he hasn't commited to joining yet.

Let me guess: you're one of the ones who believe the FIA have it in for Hamilton.

Don't you think Richards and Prodrive tried to get in? They obviously explored every possible avenue of entry and settled on the customer chassis idea was the only real option. Of all the potential entries, Dave Richards is the person with not only the most experience in Formula One, but the most recent experience in it as well. Prodrive are a team who know how to run themselves and they know how to win. That won't make them another Brawn, but it does give them something else the other teams don't have.

Posted: **21 May 2009, 03:56**

Henrique wrote:I'd like to know what Epsilon Euskadi is doing in there. They're a Formula Renault and 24h Le Mans team which just keeps getting worse and worse. I know them from the time they had Filipe Albuquerque and they don't deserve to be in F1.

They ran Kubica to the World Series by Renault title in 2006, wasn't it? We know they have the ability to manufacture cars having built the beautiful but unreliable ee1 sports prototype. They only ran a single season, but the lack of sponsorship in 2008 likely was a part of their subsequent withdrawal from Le Mans Series.

Posted: **21 May 2009, 04:16**

Captain Hammer wrote:
Faustus wrote:The customer chassis issue has been used as a convenient excuse. If Prodrive really wanted to be on the grid in 2008, a deal could have been reached with another team for a deal similar to the Red Bull / Toro Rosso situation. Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams did not say no to customer chassis, they said no to customer chassis in the way that Prodrive wanted to do it. It was a convenient excuse to bail out of a commitment. Another of the 11 teams was not granted the entry could have overtaken that obstacle. The only good thing about it this time around is that he hasn't commited to joining yet.

Let me guess: you're one of the ones who believe the FIA have it in for Hamilton.

Quite the opposite. I couldn't care less about Hamilton and his whining.

Captain Hammer wrote:Don't you think Richards and Prodrive tried to get in? They obviously explored every possible avenue of entry and settled on the customer chassis idea was the only real option. Of all the potential entries, Dave Richards is the person with not only the most experience in Formula One, but the most recent experience in it as well. Prodrive are a team who know how to run themselves and they know how to win. That won't make them another Brawn, but it does give them something else the other teams don't have.

Strictly speaking, not correct. I-Sport employ a large number of ex-Super Aguri staff. Also, if Litespeed is in association with Mike Gasycone, who has been in F1 a lot longer than Dave Richards and a lot more recently.
Prodrive could have entered Formula 1 in 2008. In fact, could and should have. They committed to it. They took over an entry that plenty of other teams were seriously interested in as well. They did not explore every possibility to enter as a customer team and merely settled on using McLaren chassis and Mercedes engines. They decided to enter in their own terms only and then lost their sponsor for their reluctance to adapt to the situation that unfolded. The situation should have been resolved BEFORE you lodge an entry. It's bad planning.

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