Grand Prix Rejects

ROTD [Reject of the Day] - Saturday

Fernando Alonso Seeming in the hunt for victory judging by his pace on Thursday, only to screw his entire race even before Qualifying. Even De Cesaris would have to hang his head in shame at that.

TV Coverage of Qualifying Seeing Nicole Somethingzer jumping around was one thing, but we don't want to see a blank-faced Alonso gazing into space for half the bloody session instead of actual racing! It was pathetic how often the director cut to him.

Mercedes GP Foot well and truly shot in self.

In my opinion, unless Alonso gets IIDOTR tomorrow, he ought to get ROTR.

Cynon wrote:I'd say Petrov might have a hand on that if he doesn't wreck again. He's got some promising (at least, this week) pace and knows how to overtake bucketloads of cars in a short period of time... Alternatively, give it to Renault as a whole. But then again, doesn't the Renault have a really short wheelbase?

Wheelbase is pretty much irrelevant, even at Monaco.

Yeah, a lot of people have been making out that Renault's wheelbase is what's going to win the race for them. And that may be the case if it were a metre shorters. But it's not - it's only a few centimetres at the most. The only place it might be of use is in the hairpin, since it's the tightest corner on the calendar.

Captain Hammer wrote:Yeah, a lot of people have been making out that Renault's wheelbase is what's going to win the race for them. And that may be the case if it were a metre shorters. But it's not - it's only a few centimetres at the most. The only place it might be of use is in the hairpin, since it's the tightest corner on the calendar.

I think what has confused the issue about long and short wheelbase cars would be the fact that Mercedes have reverted to using the short wheelbase car at Monaco, having just brought out the longer wheelbase version at Barcelona. Seeing that, there might be those who assume that a short wheelbase car must be good for Monaco.
In the case of Mercedes, the most likely reason they've gone back to the old car would be down to the fact that they had to modify the suspension on the longer wheelbase variant in order to increase the wheelbase. However, they probably designed the Monaco spec package around the old suspension package (i.e. the shorter wheelbase car), and didn't have time to update the pack between Barcelona and Monaco.
All in all, the R30 doesn't have that short a wheelbase - there are probably quite a few cars with shorter wheelbases (the W01 (the old car - I'm not sure about the new one) is shorter, I believe, as is the VJM03), and overall, the R30 is actually one of the longest cars on the grid (at 5,050mm, I think that only the MP4-25 is comparable in length - most teams are below the 5,000mm mark).

What the R30 does have, however, as I've alluded to before, is excellent traction, so Kubica can get on the power very early in the corners, and overall the R30 does seem to have good mechanical grip. The tight nature of the circuit nullifies what small power advantage Mclaren and Ferrari might have, and the R30 has been fairly competitive anyway (after all, Kubica and Petrov both did well in China when it was wet; again a situation where mechanical grip is very important).

That's kind of my point: people are pointing to the shorter wheelbase as if it's the one and only thing that makes the Renault fast when there's a whole range of thigns that make it work. And it's not just Mercedes' rationale that has led to this belief; people have been talking about Renault as being a force to be reckoned with at Monaco since the beginning of the season.

Alonso almost becomes ROTR by default. BUT I am going to nominate Jenson Button. Why? His continual blaming of others of his problems, as he continues his complaints from last weekend. Face the facts Jens, you wernt good enough!

Collieafc wrote:Alonso almost becomes ROTR by default. BUT I am going to nominate Jenson Button. Why? His continual blaming of others of his problems, as he continues his complaints from last weekend. Face the facts Jens, you wernt good enough!

Ditto.
He was the luckiest person in human history to make it into Q3 in the first place. Not the performance you expect of a defending World Champion is it?

Wizzie wrote:

Collieafc wrote:Alonso almost becomes ROTR by default. BUT I am going to nominate Jenson Button. Why? His continual blaming of others of his problems, as he continues his complaints from last weekend. Face the facts Jens, you wernt good enough!

Ditto.
He was the luckiest person in human history to make it into Q3 in the first place. Not the performance you expect of a defending World Champion is it?

Both true. Jenson did have some problems, Massa did get in his way - but he's been on the back foot all along. The same thing tended to happen last year, didn't it? Jenson would start the weekends slow, Rubens would spear ahead, and then Jenson would claw back as the track evolved and his confidence grew.

Mind you, his performances are following the agreed script: beating Hamilton when the conditions require a cool head, and left in his wake when pure performance is required.

Jenson Button: mediocre qualifying sessions, very bad start, and had to retire with a blown engine after two laps behind the safety car.
Michael Schumacher: if he's going to get penalized for the passing manouver on Alonso, he ruins his decent race.

The FIA Rulebook. For penalising a truly brilliant overtaking maneuver.

Trulli makes a late charge for ROTR with a frankly ridiculous passing attempt on Chandhok at Rascasse.

I think Alonso has done enough today to avoid ROTR, so my pick would be Rosberg.

He had the speed to qualify right at the front yesterday, and his car was as quick as the Red Bulls in the race, yet he only finished 8th.

Jarno Trulli: For ensuring that none of the new teams made it to the finish for the first time this season.

If the last-lap overtake is found to be illegal:

Michael Schumacher: Disqualification time, perhaps?

If the last-lap overtake is found to be legal:

Fernando Alonso: Complacency after a stunning drive, and losing to a hilariously clever piece of strategic overtaking.

Trulli for nearly killing Chandok.

Barrichello for throwing his steering wheel into the path of an on coming car (which he was facing!)

Street racing for being boring.

Williams - formation-lap problem, first-lap crash, poor race pace, alarming suspension failure, "steering wheel"-gate.

I agree with most suggestions excepting Alonso who I thought had a good day.

My vote is Barrichello for his immaturity in throwing his steering wheel onto the racing line after his crash. Very dangerous and he really should know better.

Mark Webber, for making it absolutely impossible o be a fan of Formula 1 in Australia.

That last corner move on Alonso (by Schumi) was a bit suspicious, I think as far as the regulations go, it's forbidden to overtake before passing the finish line in the same lap when the safety car leaves the track...?

McLaren for leaving a radiator cover on Button's car, causing it to overheat.

And I was about to leave a predictive nomination for internet forum complaints about how the race was boring... looks like the first is already in and I didn't expect that on this forum.

J Washburn Stoker wrote:McLaren for leaving a radiator cover on Button's car, causing it to overheat.

If it wasn't for the eagle eye of Ted Kravitz they may not have even noticed it

Tealy wrote:I agree with most suggestions excepting Alonso who I thought had a good day.

My vote is Barrichello for his immaturity in throwing his steering wheel onto the racing line after his crash. Very dangerous and he really should know better.

Yeah, Rubinho again can't get grips with his own emotions... and Hamilton deprived him from the steering wheel too.. I think that's it's obligatory for the drivers to put the steering wheel back after their retirement, could he face some sort of reprimand for not doing so?

lostpin wrote:That last corner move on Alonso (by Schumi) was a bit suspicious, I think as far as the regulations go, it's forbidden to overtake before passing the finish line in the same lap when the safety car leaves the track...?

According to Ross Brawn the rule doesn't apply because the safety car had left the track and green flags were waving.

tc3j3r wrote:

lostpin wrote:That last corner move on Alonso (by Schumi) was a bit suspicious, I think as far as the regulations go, it's forbidden to overtake before passing the finish line in the same lap when the safety car leaves the track...?

According to Ross Brawn the rule doesn't apply because the safety car had left the track and green flags were waving.

Yeah, but that's the usual thing that happens when a safety car leaves the track... the track becomes green, free of danger...

J Washburn Stoker wrote:McLaren for leaving a radiator cover on Button's car, causing it to overheat.

And I was about to leave a predictive nomination for internet forum complaints about how the race was boring... looks like the first is already in and I didn't expect that on this forum.

Well, if it wasn't for accidents (ie not actual racing), pretty much nothing would have happened.

Captain Hammer wrote:Mark Webber, for making it absolutely impossible o be a fan of Formula 1 in Australia.

Is that because of the hyperbole of the local coverage, or because it's too nailbiting to watch from now on because he is genuinely in the title hunt?

I can live - just - with the former. I'm not sure how I'll cope with the latter from now on.

My nomination: Mclaren in general

Teamwise, they made a ridiculously stupid mistake with Button.
Button was off pace all weekend, an blaming everyone but himself
Hamilton was nowhere to be seen in the race, and once again got to his childish Whinelton ways for bitchin to the team over the radio about the brakes.

All in all, i think Buttons two wins thanks to circumstances have made the team look better than it is. They are off pace, prone to mistakes and have two drivers who just cant cut it, one who is nowhere when pace is needed and other who is constantly bitching and moaning and doin stupid things.

5: Jenson Button - Mediocre qualifying (for a McLaren), slow getaway, and to top it all off a blown engine on lap two. Granted from what I heard that was from a cooling fan that was still in the car, so McLaren gets awarded this also. Is it that hard not to miss a day-glo orange cooling fan?

4: TV Coverage - Why did we need to keep seeing Alonso's face while in qualifying? That was unnecessary. Yes, he screwed up and he knew it, but why did we have to keep looking at him?

3: Michael Schumacher - Unless Alonso can say that he lost control of that car at that point (which I doubt he will say), Michael had no business overtaking Alonso. The rules clearly state that what he did was wrong. If he gets away with it though, I wouldn't be surprised. This isn't the first time he has done something questionable.

2: Rubens Barrichello - For throwing out his toys out of the pram. Again. And this time, literally, and nearly at the cost of Karun Chandok's race (which was ended anyway), or even his life. Not only will Barichello get a fine for not putting the steering wheel back in the car, I wouldn't be surprised if he would be reprimanded more for that hissy fit. On top of that, those steering wheels themselves are very expensive. What he did was completely stupid, although, compared to Jarno Trulli's blunder, Barichello's almost made sense.

1: Jarno Trulli - There is daring, and then there is dumb. What Trulli tried to do seemed bullheaded and not thought out, and could have cost Chandok's life. And the thing is, this isn't the first time I have seen this from Trulli. It reminded me of Canada 2007, and last year at (what I think was) Interlagos. Being a veteran, one would think that Trulli knows what he is doing and what he is capable of. I hope he gets reprimanded for that, because what he did was in my opinion, inexcusable.

Honorable mentions:
- Lewis Hamilton for whining to his team concerning brake wear and winding the brake bias towards the rear. As Bob Varsha said, this is a race. Deal with it.

- Nico Hulkenberg - I'm wondering if he is out of his league.

Dan B wrote:
3: Michael Schumacher - Unless Alonso can say that he lost control of that car at that point (which I doubt he will say), Michael had no business overtaking Alonso. The rules clearly state that what he did was wrong. If he gets away with it though, I wouldn't be surprised. This isn't the first time he has done something questionable.

Actually, the slow-motion coverage of it after the race showed that the move was fine. There were inches in it, but he made the move just after the white line.

I have vested interest in this, but surely hulkenberg who pretty much crashed straight away!
I had a feeling he would, don't ask me why...

pablo_h wrote:I have vested interest in this, but surely hulkenberg who pretty much crashed straight away!
I had a feeling he would, don't ask me why...

Are you up for his seat if he gets sacked?

Candidates for me:

-Trulli:

3 Reasons:

1- Didnt show resistance to Alonso (c'mon guy, this is a fight position, look Di Grassi example!)
2- Reckless move against chandook.
3- Reject pace.

Trulli walking for ROTY.

Williams:

Failures, failures and crashes.

Fernando Alonso:

Ok, up 18 positions in race and a probaly IIDOTR, but the crash in pratice session and lost 6th place in last corner for Schummy (and almost crashed in sequence) are reject material for ROTR.

but

I'm picking Trulli for Reject of the race.

fjackdaw wrote:

Dan B wrote:
3: Michael Schumacher - Unless Alonso can say that he lost control of that car at that point (which I doubt he will say), Michael had no business overtaking Alonso. The rules clearly state that what he did was wrong. If he gets away with it though, I wouldn't be surprised. This isn't the first time he has done something questionable.

Actually, the slow-motion coverage of it after the race showed that the move was fine. There were inches in it, but he made the move just after the white line.

Don't the rules say though that the cars are not supposed to pass each other since the green was considered a "parade formation"? At least that's what I heard Speed saying.

If Alonso was just caught napping, then that is reject material right there.

Dan B wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

Dan B wrote:
3: Michael Schumacher - Unless Alonso can say that he lost control of that car at that point (which I doubt he will say), Michael had no business overtaking Alonso. The rules clearly state that what he did was wrong. If he gets away with it though, I wouldn't be surprised. This isn't the first time he has done something questionable.

Actually, the slow-motion coverage of it after the race showed that the move was fine. There were inches in it, but he made the move just after the white line.

Don't the rules say though that the cars are not supposed to pass each other since the green was considered a "parade formation"? At least that's what I heard Speed saying.

If Alonso was just caught napping, then that is reject material right there.

This from the Autosport article:

"The sporting rules state that, "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

The argument, however is whether the race finished under the safety car or this came into the pits as it would normally do after a period controlling the race."

eytl wrote:Is that because of the hyperbole of the local coverage, or because it's too nailbiting to watch from now on because he is genuinely in the title hunt?

The hyperbole of the race coverage. Seriously, do you really think the Channel Ten commentators are going to bother to mention the fact that Webber is not leading the championship, but that he holds first place jointly with Vettel? Given the way they were talking about the Webber-Ferrari rumour in the pre-race "show" (ie, seriously implying it was already done), I seriously doubt that's a distinction they're going to be able to make. Given their incessant hero-worship, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Mark Webber invented Formula 1 and that Ayrton Senna was just some backmarker. All we're going to get for the next few days is Webber-Webber-Webber. I'll give them full points for enthusiasm, but the commentators are supposed to be professional journalists. Not slavering fanboys.

So Mark Webber gets my vote. Not because he's done anything wrong, but because it's going to be intolerable over the next few days. Seriously, I'm moving to England at the first available opportunity just so that I don't have to put up with te so-called commentators. They've really dampened my spirits this year. I love Formula 1, but knowing that I have to put up with their idiotic (and usually plain wrong) statements makes it really bloody difficult to watch races.

fjackdaw wrote:
This from the Autosport article:

"The sporting rules state that, "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

The argument, however is whether the race finished under the safety car or this came into the pits as it would normally do after a period controlling the race."

And this is where the wording gets weird. There's this:

FIA wrote:Rule 40.13: If the Safety car comes in on the last lap, there will be no overtaking and cars will cross the line in formation

Either way it's going to end badly for someone.

Captain Hammer wrote:

eytl wrote:Is that because of the hyperbole of the local coverage, or because it's too nailbiting to watch from now on because he is genuinely in the title hunt?

The hyperbole of the race coverage. Seriously, do you really think the Channel Ten commentators are going to bother to mention the fact that Webber is not leading the championship, but that he holds first place jointly with Vettel? Given the way they were talking about the Webber-Ferrari rumour in the pre-race "show" (ie, seriously implying it was already done), I seriously doubt that's a distinction they're going to be able to make. Given their incessant hero-worship, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Mark Webber invented Formula 1 and that Ayrton Senna was just some backmarker. All we're going to get for the next few days is Webber-Webber-Webber. I'll give them full points for enthusiasm, but the commentators are supposed to be professional journalists. Not slavering fanboys.

So Mark Webber gets my vote. Not because he's done anything wrong, but because it's going to be intolerable over the next few days. Seriously, I'm moving to England at the first available opportunity just so that I don't have to put up with te so-called commentators. They've really dampened my spirits this year. I love Formula 1, but knowing that I have to put up with their idiotic (and usually plain wrong) statements makes it really bloody difficult to watch races.

In all fairness, ITV was the same in 2007-2008

While I agree with you for the most part, they did in fact mention that he was tied for points with Vettel, and besides which Webber IS technically leading the championship owing to having won more races than V.

I'll go with Webber too just to show solidarity with Captain Hammer. Having gone through ITVs Button-mania and Lewisteria I know exactly how ungodly put-your-foot-through-the-TV annoying "patriotic" coverage gets until your rooting for the drivers to fail just so you don't have to hear about how wonderful and perfect and fantastic they are (though then they'll drone on about how unlucky they are or how someone screwed them which is nearly as bad).

LukeB wrote:I'll go with Webber too just to show solidarity with Captain Hammer. Having gone through ITVs Button-mania and Lewisteria I know exactly how ungodly put-your-foot-through-the-TV annoying "patriotic" coverage gets until your rooting for the drivers to fail just so you don't have to hear about how wonderful and perfect and fantastic they are (though then they'll drone on about how unlucky they are or how someone screwed them which is nearly as bad).

patriotic hyberbole can be entertaining you know? Like finnish commentators joking around that when Rosbergs succesfull, he's finnish and when not, hes german.
Other example is Finlands answer to murray walker, matti kyllönen who once in a race saw a retired tyrrell, commenting "seems like Katayama has retired... oh well", only to completely change demeanor when the co-commentator pointedout its Salo and cry out "NO! Salo has retired! What a sad course of events!", with liberal translations ofc.

Though it ca n be ridiculous... the advertising slogan for MTV3, who airs F1 in finland last year was "World fastest People" meaning us Finns, but when Räikkönen left F1 and Heikki moved to Lotus, it was changed to "Worlds fastest Heikki" for this year. thats kinda dumb imo