2011 Silly Season

coops · Post by **coops** » 24 May 2010, 12:17

Tealy wrote:It's pretty pathetic really if that is how the bosses think but really its probably just "paper talk". Many Journalists take the easy way out and get a "story" based on whoever is doing well at that particular moment.

Thats an element of it but I remember Christian Horner being interviewed last season and him referring to the Red Bulls needing Mercedes engines for 2010 as they were far superior to the Renaults (right about the time the Force India Mercedes started getting decent results). Had he been able to switch how would that decision have stacked up now at this point in the season? We'll never know...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 24 May 2010, 16:30

Wizzie wrote:Webber not ruling out moving to other teams in 2011

And suddenly Massa doesn't hold the key to the 2011 driver market anymore...

What I think is, he could move out of the way and leave Sato to take his seat. Fact.

coops · Post by **coops** » 24 May 2010, 18:22

Phoenix wrote:What I think is, he could move out of the way and leave Sato to take his seat. Fact.

Sato in a Ferrari....the stuff of legend. Legend.

Post by **mario** » 24 May 2010, 19:02

coops wrote:Webber to Ferrari? Typical. A month ago even Red Bull were iffy about keeping him. What if Massa suddenly gets it right and wins two on the bounce? Are team managers unable to look further than the present? Its like Toro Rosso-itis has spread to everybody else.

The thing is, Red Bull had already said that they were thinking of keeping Webber (who has spent the past few years at Red Bull signing up for just a year at a time anyway, so there is nothing new about his contract) before the last two races. Of course, every driver is going to want to keep his options open should he wish to leave a team for one reason or another, so it isn't surprising that he said that he is open to offers. Nevertheless, he seems very happy at Red Bull, and they seem happy with him, so he is probably going to stay put.
But yes, some team principals do seem to have trouble looking beyond perhaps the last three or four races - there is the old comment that "You're only as good as your last race", and there is certainly a grain of truth in the matter.

Besides, I thought that it was Kubica who Ferrari were supposed to have been targeting - after all, last year they tried to get his as a replacement for Massa (but his contract at BMW Sauber was too restrictive, and he effectively couldn't leave the team until the end of the season), and with his results at Renault, his stock has been going up quite a bit after last year's struggles.

coops · Post by **coops** » 24 May 2010, 19:35

mario wrote:Besides, I thought that it was Kubica who Ferrari were supposed to have been targeting.

Well, LAST week it was but the BBC F1 Gossip page listed a story regarding Webber to Ferrari.

Which despite all the moaning Ive done I think would be fantastic.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 May 2010, 21:56

I suspect Mark Webber is being Mark Webber. Last time his contract was up for renewal, he said something just like this, no doubt to keep his options open just in case something goes horribly wrong at Red Bull.

And Parris Mullins - Chad Hurley's right-hand man - has said he's working on an arrangement to enter the sport in 2011. His won't be a start-up operation because he doesn't think that's possible, but he cited the Genii-Renault deal as a model that he thinks can work and has confirmed that he's talking with a few interested parties.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 25 May 2010, 16:24

coops wrote:
Phoenix wrote:What I think is, he could move out of the way and leave Sato to take his seat. Fact.

Sato in a Ferrari....the stuff of legend. Legend.

leg·end, n.

1.
a. An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical.
b. A body or collection of such stories.
c. A romanticized or popularized myth of modern times.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 25 May 2010, 18:11

shinji wrote:
coops wrote:
Phoenix wrote:What I think is, he could move out of the way and leave Sato to take his seat. Fact.

Sato in a Ferrari....the stuff of legend. Legend.

leg·end, n.

1.
a. An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical.
b. A body or collection of such stories.
c. A romanticized or popularized myth of modern times.

Thanks for teaching us something new, shinji-san.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 26 May 2010, 06:27

Given recent developments, I'm going to change this one:

Captain Hammer wrote:AON*Cypher - Ferrari
#16 - Jaime Alguersuari
#17 - Pastor Maldonado

Chad Hurley makes Dietrich Mateschitz an offer he couldn't ignore, and Cypher enter Formula 1 in Toro Rosso's place. Jaime Alguersuari is kept on after impressing in 2010, while Buemi is released in favour of erratic-but-quick GP2 graduate Pastor Maldonado. Chicago-based investment group AON leap at the chance to be a part of an American Formula 1 team and quickly take title sponsor rights.

Red Bull North American Racing Team - Ferrari
#16 - Kimi Raikkonen
#17 - Valentino Rossi

Parris Mullins and Chad Hurley buy Toro Rosso from Dietrich Mateschitz with a view to reviving the old North American Racing Team after a twenty-two year hiatus. Under the terms of the deal, Red Bull remain title sponsors for free, while the team gets help from Ferrari (as NART was Ferrari's American arm). In order to better promote the team, Mullins and di Montezemolo manage to get Raikkonen back into the sport and coax Valentino Rossi over from MotoGP.

As for the original arrangement I had there with Alguersuari and Maldonado, Alguersuari can go to ART in the place of Klien, and Maldonado can stay in GP2.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 26 May 2010, 20:32

Captain Hammer wrote:As for the original arrangement I had there with Alguersuari and Maldonado, Alguersuari can go to ART in the place of Klien, and Maldonado can stay in GP2.

Maldonado has been in GP2 seemingly forever. Its time he moves on to AutoGP, Superleague Formula, or gives up and does tin-tops or sportscars.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 May 2010, 21:57

RejectSteve wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:As for the original arrangement I had there with Alguersuari and Maldonado, Alguersuari can go to ART in the place of Klien, and Maldonado can stay in GP2.

Maldonado has been in GP2 seemingly forever. Its time he moves on to AutoGP, Superleague Formula, or gives up and does tin-tops or sportscars.

WTCC for independents (not)ProTeam BMW more likey; he can partner Felix Porteiro and have the team renamed Escuderia Argy-Bargy, with the BMW 320si's painted in HRT colours, and will eventually earn a reputation as 'chicken cutters'.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 26 May 2010, 21:58

What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 26 May 2010, 22:40

Waris wrote:What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

Apart from ART and Epsilon, NO! SIMPLY NO! Sadly, it's like this.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 May 2010, 22:42

Waris wrote:What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

RML also confirmed they wouldn't put forward an entry. And I'd go for the latter description for all 8 teams.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 26 May 2010, 23:15

kostas22 wrote:
Waris wrote:What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

RML also confirmed they wouldn't put forward an entry. And I'd go for the latter description for all 8 teams.

Oh boy, that could be something. :3 Maybe the people behind Dubai F1, whatever that was, have come back? I just hope somewhere in the back of my heart that there's a vague, small, poor, courageous Japanese team in there... Like SOOPA AGUREH!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 May 2010, 23:23

Waris wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
Waris wrote:What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

RML also confirmed they wouldn't put forward an entry. And I'd go for the latter description for all 8 teams.

Oh boy, that could be something. :3 Maybe the people behind Dubai F1, whatever that was, have come back? I just hope somewhere in the back of my heart that there's a vague, small, poor, courageous Japanese team in there... Like SOOPA AGUREH!

How about Katayama Racing Concern, with Kamui Kobayashi and Keisuke Kunimoto as drivers with Kellogs and Krispe Kreme as sponsors?

Alliteration win.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 26 May 2010, 23:26

kostas22 wrote:
Waris wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
RML also confirmed they wouldn't put forward an entry. And I'd go for the latter description for all 8 teams.

Oh boy, that could be something. :3 Maybe the people behind Dubai F1, whatever that was, have come back? I just hope somewhere in the back of my heart that there's a vague, small, poor, courageous Japanese team in there... Like SOOPA AGUREH!

How about Katayama Racing Concern, with Kamui Kobayashi and Keisuke Kunimoto as drivers with Kellogs and Krispe Kreme as sponsors?

Alliteration win.

One would almost start making KKK jokes... <_<

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 26 May 2010, 23:27

kostas22 wrote:How about Katayama Racing Concern, with Kamui Kobayashi and Keisuke Kunimoto as drivers with Kellogs and Krispe Kreme as sponsors?

Alliteration win.

But abbreviation fail...

EDIT: dammit Waris!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 May 2010, 23:40

That's why I used 8 K's instead of 3, 6, 9, 12 or 15 etc...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 May 2010, 01:02

Waris wrote:What about the 15 new teams that allegedly expressed interest in lodging an entry for next year? Anderson, ART, Cypher (the old USF1 minus Anderson and Windsor), Durango, Epsilon Euskadi and Stefan are among them, and Prodrive, Lola, Formtech and Superfund aren't, but who are the remaining 9 teams? Does anyone have an idea? RML, maybe? That still leaves 8... I wonder who that could be? Where did all these teams come from? Are they credible, bona fide racing outfits, or are they shady groups backed by vague consortiums from obscure countries?

RML is not applying.

As for the unknown nine entrants, they're keeping their mouths shut. Probaby because they don't want to wind up with egg on their faces - like Dave Richards did - by talking their chances up and then being overlooked or rejected. The known applicants are:

1) Epsilon Euskadi
2) ART Grand Prix
3) Durango
4) Stefan GP
5) Cypher
6) Anderson F1

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 27 May 2010, 01:34

Captain Hammer wrote:6) Anderson F1

seriously? :lol:

Just been reading the USF1 article in the latest edition of F1 Racing, that guy must be on drugs if he thinks the FIA will let him in after the shambolic attempt he orchestrated last year! :lol:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 May 2010, 01:50

Seriously. He's actually going ahead with it, though there's by no means any official confirmation. He seems to be pinning his hopes on demand for an American team - and he's probably got said hopes up with the announcement of the Austin race - but he'll be competing with Cypher for the claim to being America's team ... and that's before you factor in the others and the way Parris Mullins (and possibly Chad Hurley) want to buy into an existing team.

Anderson is delusional, but that seems to be his watchword. After all, the honestly believed they could make it to Bahrain despite not having a car in early February. Not to mention the way he and his son kept undoing all the work that the designers did. USF1 was never a genuine American team, anyway - it was a vanity project.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 May 2010, 07:59

Captain Hammer wrote:Seriously. He's actually going ahead with it, though there's by no means any official confirmation. He seems to be pinning his hopes on demand for an American team - and he's probably got said hopes up with the announcement of the Austin race - but he'll be competing with Cypher for the claim to being America's team ... and that's before you factor in the others and the way Parris Mullins (and possibly Chad Hurley) want to buy into an existing team.

Anderson is delusional, but that seems to be his watchword. After all, the honestly believed they could make it to Bahrain despite not having a car in early February. Not to mention the way he and his son kept undoing all the work that the designers did. USF1 was never a genuine American team, anyway - it was a vanity project.

Oh dear... ART sounds like a shoo-in, doesn't it?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 May 2010, 09:10

CarlosFerreira wrote:Oh dear... ART sounds like a shoo-in, doesn't it?

They're up against Epsilon, remember.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 May 2010, 09:22

Captain Hammer wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Oh dear... ART sounds like a shoo-in, doesn't it?

They're up against Epsilon, remember.

Is Nicolas Todt still connected to ART?

Post by **mario** » 27 May 2010, 09:36

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Oh dear... ART sounds like a shoo-in, doesn't it?

They're up against Epsilon, remember.

Is Nicolas Todt still connected to ART?

He certainly is - although interestingly he has already started downplaying his chances, and already cast doubt on whether his own team would be capable of getting a team together in time for 2011, and has already started complaining about the cost of entering F1 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83875

Nicolas Todt wrote:"The news that we have proposed ART is real, but at the moment it's just a request, there is no certainty we'll take the start next season,"

So, despite my initial enthusiasm for ART GP, it looks as if it is less likely to take off after all.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 May 2010, 14:25

CarlosFerreira wrote:Is Nicolas Todt still connected to ART?

It doesn't guarantee him a place on the grid. Jean Todt has already proven he's not Max Mosley. If anything ART will have to work harder than everyone else, and no doubt Todt Jnr. has asked dad to go harder on them than anyone else.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 May 2010, 14:27

Captain Hammer wrote:It doesn't guarantee him a place on the grid. Jean Todt has already proven he's not Max Mosley. If anything ART will have to work harder than everyone else, and no doubt Todt Jnr. has asked dad to go harder on them than anyone else.

Yeah, right! And I don't suppose his dad helped him get to the point where he is managing a top line GP2 team either?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 May 2010, 14:35

noisebox wrote:Yeah, right! And I don't suppose his dad helped him get to the point where he is managing a top line GP2 team either?

He wasn't president of the FIA then. After leaving Ferrari, Todt was the FIA's Makes Roads Safe spokesperson.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 May 2010, 15:45

Captain Hammer wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Is Nicolas Todt still connected to ART?

It doesn't guarantee him a place on the grid. Jean Todt has already proven he's not Max Mosley. If anything ART will have to work harder than everyone else, and no doubt Todt Jnr. has asked dad to go harder on them than anyone else.

I know, I agree. I was simply being provocative, to be honest.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 27 May 2010, 16:22

I think ART has this one in the bag. Joan Viladelprat or however you spell it probably isn't popular with the FIA, considering he was team manager for Benetton in 1994...! (Remember the Silverstone controversy that year? He was the staff member involved in it the most).

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 27 May 2010, 19:56

Captain Hammer wrote:
noisebox wrote:Yeah, right! And I don't suppose his dad helped him get to the point where he is managing a top line GP2 team either?

He wasn't president of the FIA then. After leaving Ferrari, Todt was the FIA's Makes Roads Safe spokesperson.

Even so, he may have had conections, but I don't know it for sure.

kostas22 wrote:I think ART has this one in the bag. Joan Viladelprat or however you spell it probably isn't popular with the FIA, considering he was team manager for Benetton in 1994...! (Remember the Silverstone controversy that year? He was the staff member involved in it the most).

Meh. Maybe they don't remember the story at this point.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 27 May 2010, 22:45

Phoenix wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I think ART has this one in the bag. Joan Viladelprat or however you spell it probably isn't popular with the FIA, considering he was team manager for Benetton in 1994...! (Remember the Silverstone controversy that year? He was the staff member involved in it the most).

Meh. Maybe they don't remember the story at this point.

Tell that to Flav!

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 May 2010, 23:26

Captain Hammer wrote:
noisebox wrote:Yeah, right! And I don't suppose his dad helped him get to the point where he is managing a top line GP2 team either?

He wasn't president of the FIA then. After leaving Ferrari, Todt was the FIA's Makes Roads Safe spokesperson.

Silly me, he was only running the most powerful team in F1...

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 28 May 2010, 13:21

I still hope one of these unknown teams will be a surprise pulled out of a high hat. Anyone have any wild speculations?! Maybe it's Audi/Volkswagen/Porsche?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 29 May 2010, 03:15

Volkswagen aren't interested in entering Formula 1 until the new engine regulations come into effect.

There has, however, been the rumour that ART and Sauber will merge ...

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 29 May 2010, 03:31

that would make sense

watka · Post by **watka** » 30 May 2010, 15:40

Have "Brabham" put an entry in this year? Got to love the zombie teams...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 May 2010, 21:54

watka wrote:Have "Brabham" put an entry in this year? Got to love the zombie teams...

I don't think so.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 30 May 2010, 22:34

One conclusion from today I think we can reasonably draw is that Webber wont be at Red Bull next year. So where will he go, and who might take his seat? How about a swap with Kubica?