Grand Prix Rejects

For once, I think we should look at what kind of driver the existing teams need:

Brawn GP - with Button they have experience and maybe the reigning champion, but they might need a pay driver

RBR - they got what they need with Webber and Vettel

Toyota and Ferrari - do they know what kind of driver they need?

Williams - they need a Toyota affiliate to pay for the engines and a quick and experienced driver as team leader

Renault - they need at least one experienced and quick race driver and one quick and experienced car development driver
if Alonso were to quit them, they had neither

Toro Rosso - they got an up and coming quick guy in Buemi, but what kind of a driver do they need? A pay driver maybe?

Force 1ndia - they would need 2 experienced drivers, but do they want to stick with their current pairing again?

McLaren - they will keep last year's champion Hamilton, but they need an experienced driver who knows how to develop a car
if they cannot get Rosberg, might they go for Heidfeld even?

BMW-Sauber - they look like they want to keep only one of their drivers; will they keep the race driver Kubica or the car developer Heidfeld? It might depend on who they can get.

As for the new teams, they probably all need a team leading car developer and a pay driver with at least some experience.

Captain Hammer wrote:This is a serious thread. We know there's no way Villeneuve is going to come back.

Don't be too sure...

"I am talking seriously with teams – new but also older ones," he confirmed.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2812.shtml

johnston21 wrote:"I am talking seriously with teams – new but also older ones," he confirmed.

"Jacques? Dave Richards. Listen, we want you to drive for us in 2010. No, I know Prodrive didn't make the grid. The FIA told us we're the fourth reserve team. If Renault, Toyota, BMW and someone else leave, we're in. You want a race seat? No, I'm afraid we had something else in mind. You'd settle for test-driving? Well, I suppose you could call it that. The ban on in-season testing means you'll be doing about as much work. No, Jacques, listen to me for a moment: we want you to drive the motorhome. No, I know it's not the same thing. Look, are you in or out? Yes, I suppose you can play your own CDs on the stereo if it means that much to you."

Fitch wrote: What did Schumacher do in that one GP to convince anyone of anything??......He qualified in the Top 10, and then never made it to the Top of Eau Rogue on the 1st Lap??.....There have been SCORES of other drivers who have been WAY more Impressive....

He lapped Silverstone quicker than anyone had in that car on his first run, then blew de Cesaris away in qualifying - he probably would've won that race if his car lasted. It was obvious he was a special talent right from the word go, and he did alright subsequently didn't he?
I can't think of another driver who made quite such an impact. Maybe Alesi in the Tyrrell, or Hamilton with his performance relative to Alonso.

noisebox wrote:

Fitch wrote: What did Schumacher do in that one GP to convince anyone of anything??......He qualified in the Top 10, and then never made it to the Top of Eau Rogue on the 1st Lap??.....There have been SCORES of other drivers who have been WAY more Impressive....

He lapped Silverstone quicker than anyone had in that car on his first run, then blew de Cesaris away in qualifying - he probably would've won that race if his car lasted. It was obvious he was a special talent right from the word go, and he did alright subsequently didn't he?
I can't think of another driver who made quite such an impact. Maybe Alesi in the Tyrrell, or Hamilton with his performance relative to Alonso.

Actually, he'd have probably retired with the same oil problem that stopped de Cesaris when he was hunting down Senna later in the race - point well seen though.

I've just joined this forum and I'm impressed with the knowledge base. I apologise for having nothing constructive to add but am encouraged that the majority of hypotheses have Trulli without a drive for next season.

For Sutil's sake, I hope that he ends up at McLaren. For Farce India's sake, I hope that he stays. I think that team has it figured out, though. Fisi may be gone though, but that will be his call.

God, I wish I could actually get to watch F1 races on TV. It'd be amazing.

thehemogoblin wrote:For Sutil's sake, I hope that he ends up at McLaren. For Farce India's sake, I hope that he stays. I think that team has it figured out, though. Fisi may be gone though, but that will be his call.

God, I wish I could actually get to watch F1 races on TV. It'd be amazing.

What's amazing is that you're so knowledgeable and opinionated on F1 despite not watching the races. Just shows how small a part of the sport the races are!

I posted elsewhere that Sutil will go to Williams next season alongside Hulkenburg (who was awesome in GP2 at the weekend) and I still think that will happen. On not following sports, I follow American sports and hardly ever see them, I occasionally see 1 game a week of the NFL and I follow boxing even though its on cable you have to pay for which I don't have. Its frustrating but oddly exciting at the same time.

shinji wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:For Sutil's sake, I hope that he ends up at McLaren. For Farce India's sake, I hope that he stays. I think that team has it figured out, though. Fisi may be gone though, but that will be his call.

God, I wish I could actually get to watch F1 races on TV. It'd be amazing.

What's amazing is that you're so knowledgeable and opinionated on F1 despite not watching the races. Just shows how small a part of the sport the races are!

I've only seen Monaco and Germany this year, and I didn't see any of last years, and only a few of 2007's. However, I pretty much did not miss a race from 1998-2004 or so, so I do have a decent knowledge. That, and I read everything I can on F1.

many users wrote:Campos Grand Prix
24.Pedro De La Rosa

He will be 39 next year! I don't think he will be back in F1, even if I appreciate him.

Jack O Malley wrote:

many users wrote:Campos Grand Prix
24.Pedro De La Rosa

He will be 39 next year! I don't think he will be back in F1, even if I appreciate him.

Nino Farina was 44 when he won the World Driver's Championship. De La Rosa hasn't even hit his prime yet.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Jack O Malley wrote:

many users wrote:Campos Grand Prix
24.Pedro De La Rosa

He will be 39 next year! I don't think he will be back in F1, even if I appreciate him.

Nino Farina was 44 when he won the World Driver's Championship. De La Rosa hasn't even hit his prime yet.

A valid point, but Farina came from a completely different era of F1. And how do you know whether or not De La Rosa's hit his prime yet?

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

Jack O Malley wrote:
He will be 39 next year! I don't think he will be back in F1, even if I appreciate him.

Nino Farina was 44 when he won the World Driver's Championship. De La Rosa hasn't even hit his prime yet.

A valid point, but Farina came from a completely different era of F1. And how do you know whether or not De La Rosa's hit his prime yet?

Well, De La Rosa doesn't have his WDC yet, so it's the only plausible hypothesis...

This is probably all wrong, but here's a wild, wild, guess.

Brawn - Mercedes
1 Jenson Button
2 Bruno Senna

New world champion Button is a dead cert, as are the Mercedes engines - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Barrichello retires after a weak second half of the year that cost Brawn the Constructors title. In comes the sponsor-pleasing Bruno Senna.

Red Bull Racing - Mercedes
3 Sebastian Vettel
4 Mark Webber

Cliched the constructors title in Abu Dahbi with a 1-2, but unfortunately took too many points off each other to keep Jenson from the Drivers Crown. Both drivers negotiate substantial pay rises and Red Bull comply. They're aiming for both titles this time, despite swapping to Mercedes power when they realised that Renault's heart was no longer in it.

Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Fernando Alonso

Ferrari keep their 'chosen son' Massa and are joined by Alonso, the worst kept secret in F1. Despite their poor constructors placing last year, there's no real shortage of money and the 2010 model looks like a real challenger.

Williams - Cosworth
9 Nico Hulkenberg
10 Heikki Kovalainen

Williams dump Toyota and return to their old buddies at Cosworth. Use the opportunity to dump the 'not quite the real thing' Kasuki and get promising young German Nico Hulkenberg in the seat. They also manage to get Heikki in the other seat, partial consolation for losing Nico Rosberg to McLaren. Strapped for cash, they were forced to sell his contract to the highest bidder. Lucky those Cosworths came cheap.

Toyota
7 Jarno Trulli
8 Timo Glock

A team devoid of good ideas doles out the same boring old line up once again, though both drivers are forced to take salary cuts due to less funding from Japan.

BMW Sauber
11 Christian Klien
12 Robert Kubica

Klien re-enters F1, whilst Kubica as no choice but to see out the last year of his contract despite offering to drive for Brawn for virtually nothing - sponsor pressures unfortunately dictated that Reals were better than Zlotty.

McLaren - Mercedes
14 Lewis Hamilton
15 Nico Rosberg

Lewis stays as everyone knew he would. For the No2 seat, a Finn is swapped for a Finnish-descended German, Mercedes presurring the team to get a German driver on board who's fast and on-the-market. Hence they paid to buy out Nico's WIlliams contract.

Not Renault
17 Romain Grosjean
18 Vitaly Petrov

Renault announce their withdrawl at the end of the 2009 season. The team is bought up for 1 Euro by a French consortium who negotiate techncial supports for the engines, a host of minor sponsors, but are unable to draw any big name-drivers, though Romain Grosjean (who scored half a dozen points replacing Piquet during the second half of the season) and his old GP2 teammate Petrov show some promise.

Scuderia Toro Rosso - Ferrari
19 Sebastien Buemi
20 Jaime Alguersuari

Buemi gets a second season with Toro Rosso, whilst Jaime Alguersuari gets to do his first full season. Due to be sold at the end of the 2010 season, little development work is planned and the team are expected to languish near the back.

Force India - Mercedes
21 Adrian Sutil
22 Antonio Liuzzi

Fischella retires, Sutil gets his 4th season with the team and test drive Liuzzi gets promoted to the race team. Both know that Karun Chandhok is likely to be brought in to race from 2010 onwards, and hence competition between them will be fierce.

Campos - Cosworth
23 Pedro De La Rosa
24 Giorgio Pantano

Trying to do an all-Spanish line up, Campos end up bringing Pedro de la Rosa back into the fray after 2 years out, and GP2 champion (also F1 reject to date) Pantano. No-one outside Spain pays much attention.

Virgin - Cosworth
25 Nick Heidfeld
26 Anthony Davidson

Virgin buy naming rights to Manor (which was a boring name anyway) and allow the team to avoid need for pay-drivers. As it happens, they manage to get development wizard Heidfeld and aching-to-race Davidson, both for a low fee. This plucky little team becomes everyones 2nd favourite, like Super Aguri and Minardi used to be.

Team US F1 - Cosworth
27 Danica Patrick
28 (one of the A1 GP Team USA drivers)

They wanted to be all American, but were stuck for drivers. Scott Speed was asked first, but refused. Danica Patrick was an outside bet until somebody realised how much attention a female driver would get, even for a team in it's learning year, and a deal was forced through. The second seat was filled by one of the A1 GP drivers, deciding that someone with experience of driving an F1-derived single seater might actually be useful.

jonnyeol wrote:Virgin buy naming rights to Manor (which was a boring name anyway) and allow the team to avoid need for pay-drivers.

Because they're Virgin-Manor, I like to refer to them as the Playboy Mansion.

Captain Hammer wrote:

jonnyeol wrote:Virgin buy naming rights to Manor (which was a boring name anyway) and allow the team to avoid need for pay-drivers.

Because they're Virgin-Manor, I like to refer to them as the Playboy Mansion.

There's not a single virgin in that building.

thehemogoblin wrote::lol:

There's not a single virgin in that building.

I know, but it's just too good a name not to use.

Captain Hammer wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote::lol:

There's not a single virgin in that building.

I know, but it's just too good a name not to use.

Agreed. I was laughing out loud.

Remember, laughter is a dangerous thing. It's just one s away from slaughter.

jonnyeol wrote:Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Fernando Alonso

If this happens, we're sure to see a replay of Macca's 2007.

"Virgin Manor" sounds so much like "Playboy Mansion": not a good idea.

What do you mean it's not a good idea? It's a bloody fanatasic idea.

Might give the BBC a few problems though, since the name would hardly be politically correct...

Glad I was not the only one to put the thoughts of Virgin-Manor and Playboy-Mansion together...

Ok, seems we've got more silly season stuff coming up, so time to defillibrate this topic.

Recent Rumours:
-Kimi is going to amicably split with McLaren to make way for 'Nando in return for a firm seat for next year, tipped to be McLaren. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090828215056.shtml
-Heikki has not been doing enough to save his place and must pick up his game according to Whitmarsh. If he leaves, Nico is the one Haug is pushing for. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090819170518.shtml
-Frank Williams is very sure now that he's losing Rosberg for next season. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090827100319.shtml
-Williams is dropping Toyota, so there will be no need to keep Nakajima. He could return to Toyota where he would make a stronger Japanese teammate to Glock than Kobayashi. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090822182354.shtml
-Williams also wants to promote Hulkenberg to a race seat, though doesn't mind lending him to Ferrari for the rest of this season. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090828161743.shtml
-Trulli has been dropped for next year due to a lack of funds. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090822201737.shtml
-Brawn wants to keep his current line up. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090826125014.shtml
-Loeb is talking to US F1 for talks of on-off race seats. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090825111638.shtml
-Campos wants De La Rosa and Petrov http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090820095901.shtml but also Senna http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090813145924.shtml

So, reversing what I'd posted before to match, here's my line-up for next season~

---

Brawn-Cosworth
#1: Jenson Button
#2: Rubens Barrichello
Test: Vitaly Petrov

With Wurz left to work full time for Peugeot in the LMS, Vitaly Petrov was signed on as a test driver as he hopes to capitalise on his second place on the 2009 GP2 championship, bringing with him many Russian investors to fill Brawn's ranks. Ashamed of being outdone by a solo team the Mercedes boys did not renew their contract and instead Ross Brawn took the Cosworth package.

Red Bull-Ferrari
#1: Sebastian Vettel
#2: Mark Webber
Test: Brendon Hartley

With Renault all but pulling out this year, the Red Bull teams switched around their customer supplies to provide the better-tuned Ferrari engine to the Red Bull cars and instead let the STR team run with Cosworth engines which in all were cheaper so it worked out well enough. Webber's strong run to third in the championship last year and his first win were enough to convince the team to keep him on for a third term.

Toyota
#1: Timo Glock
#2: Kazuki Nakajima
Test: Kamui Kobayashi

As Williams cancelled their Toyota contract, Nakajima was called back home to Toyota to replace the leaving Trulli, leaving Kobayashi to spend more time in GP2 until he could carry off the main title as well as the Asia one. Glock takes over team leader, something he’s expected to do with aplomb

Ferrari
#1: Felipe Massa
#2: Fernando Alonso
Test: Giancarlo Fisichella

Kimi left amicably at the end of the ’09 season to confirm the rumours everyone had been talking about. Santander sponsorship is onboard at Ferrari and the crowds are going wild, expecting great things from the Spaniard. His old friend at Renault, Fisico as a test driver who’s happy to get respect he deserves and wear the red, partners him.

Williams-Cosworth
#1: Nico Rosberg
#2: Nico Hulkenberg
Test: Dani Clos

With Kazuki Nakajima and Toyota leaving at the end of the year, Frank Williams spent no time in hiring the hotshot new German Nico alongside old Nico who showed great promise in the faster tracks and scored his first win in Brazil last year. He has said there is a good atmosphere in the team and even if Toyota goes he hopes to stay on. Clos was elevated to test driver, which he shares with a run in GP2.

Briatore-Renault
#1: Romain Grosjean
#2: Robert Kubica
Test: Giedo Van De Garde

Renault as a manufacturer pulled out at the end of the year but agreed to supply engines to Flavio Briatore's team as long as there was a French driver in it. For this reason, Flav kept Grosjean but also signed on Kubica to have a pro driver in it. However, he is often ill, and the doctors say he keeps muttering in his sleep ‘Fernando… come back…’

McLaren-Mercedes
#1: Lewis Hamilton
#2: Kimi Räikkönen
Test: Gary Paffett

Whitmarsh gave Haug something more to chew about as he failed to get his hands on Rosberg after his first win at Williams, saying that he was sure the Grove-based team would get even better. To his delight however, Kimi took up on an offer of returning to partner Hamilton, and against all odds the two seem to be getting on well. This is said to be a truly pushing career change, with Kimi allowed more of his nectar of life (read: vodka) during off-seasons than he was with Fezza.

Torro Rosso-Cosworth
#1: Sebastian Buemi
#2: Jaime Alguersuari
Test: Brendon Hartley

Spaniard Alguersuari and kiwi Hartley will share the second seat in much the same way that Red Bull switched Liuzzi and Klien round in 2005. Jaime will take over when the European leg begins but bookies' odds are on him to outperform Hartley this year. Either way, Sebastian Buemi is keen to capitalise on a good season last year.

Sauber-Prodrive-Aston-Martin
#1: Anthony Davidson
#2: Nick Heidfeld
Test: Marko Asmer

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and Peter Sauber decided to work with Prodrive to buy out his old team when BMW left. So as not to lose too much money, they sold Kubica to Renault, kept Heidfeld at a low cost and Asmer as the test driver and hired Anthony Davidson to be the other driver at a low price. The Cosworth engines have been tuned in-house by Prodrive and re-labelled Aston Martin.

Force India-Mercedes
#1: Karun Chandhok
#2: Paul Di Resta
Test:

Finally, with their strong performance last year, Force India are looking more promising this year. Fisichella and Sutil have both been dumped in favour of the earnest GP2 driver Karun Chandhok, easily Mallya's favourite over the Mercedes-pushed Paul Di Resta. Di Resta hasn't had as much single seater practice as his teammate but is believed to have more raw talent. They are still awaiting calls for a test driver after Vitantonio Liuzzi left for good.

US F1-Cosworth
#1: Robert Wickens
#2: Sebastian Loeb
Test: Danica Patrick

Wickens graduated from winning the F2 championship to move into F1 after testing for Williams and deciding he wanted more. Knowing Canada was close enough to the US, and with Montreal appearing on the calendar again, Windsor spent no time in hiring the young man. Danica Patrick has, like many other test drivers, combined testing with a sponsored run in GP2, having attracted plenty of sponsorship and a big fanbase, and she will cover whenever Sebastian Loeb has rally duties elsewhere.

Campos-Cosworth
#1: Pedro De La Rosa
#2: Andy Soucek
Test: Natacha Gachang

De La Rosa thought his career over at a poorly arranged McLaren but it was not to be. Adrian Campos insisted on an all-Spanish line up and after not having attracted Alonso with a high enough salary and promises of a winning car, he settled for an experienced man to help with the driving. The only other Spaniard available was GP2 reject Andy Soucek whose orders this year are to keep the car on the road and show off for sponsors rather than try and drive for wins. He will be rejected if too many stupid errors are made, the promise is and the Spanish F3 champion Gachang is waiting in the wings.

Manor-Cosworth
#1: Adam Carroll
#2: Adrian Sutil
Test:

Manor's driver line-up was somewhat a last-minute arrangement but everything seemed to work out fine for the small British team. They got A1GP master Caroll for their main driver, tempting him with a run alongside his Ireland car and promise of a safety net if A1GP goes under if promised. Adrian Sutil was also a last-minute signing, but bringing some much needed sponsorship and a rock-solid open wheel base to the team.

Sutil isn't leaving Force India... especially for a team lower on the grid. Not after they've got it figured all out.

I like your thinking MBF... a Rosberg Win... remind me to buy you a pint if that happens

Force India prediction is wrong.
Liuzzi has a contract for next year there.
And I think Sutil will stay put.

I see Di Resta going to Manor. And also I think Campos would pick Javier Villa over Andy Soucek.

USF1 is all wrong! Citroen will not allow him to race in F1, and Loeb is not the kinda guy who risks basically a lifetime contract with them just for a year of racing in F1. Robert Wickens...maybe. Also consider Marco Andretti, I could see Andretti Racing dropping to two cars for next year in IRL, after losing Green finances. And Graham Rahal, he is quick on Road Courses. Jonathon Summerton another option...but a bit inexperienced. I see them picking up someone like Trulli for peanuts and putting one of those young americans in the other seat. And the Danica thing won't happen. Too busy in IRL with Chip Ganassi me thinks.

Secondly, despite the article at the top, I am adamant that Raikkonen is going to Tommi Makinen Racing, and Rosberg is going to McLaren.
Thridly, if Prodrive for some strange reason did buy Hinwil, they would be using Mercedes Engine, because they already have a technical agreement. And David Richards also said Aston Martin name would not feature in F1. Someone clearly learned the lessons of Jaguar eh?
But Prodrive already have facilites, so they don't really need Hinwil. Plus they won't get in, because Cosworth probably bribed the FIA again.
I think Christian Baha will buy BMW-Sauber, get Cosworth engines, and keep Heidfeld and promote Klien to a race seat. Tester, probably Asmer. Hence an all new team, Superfund-Cosworth. Maybe Peter Sauber will be involved with that buyout too, I don't know.

@Many Blue Flags:

I see some of your predictions unprobably:
-I think Barrichello would retire at the end of the season. He's easily the oldest F1 driver after all!
-I think Brawn will keep the Mercedes engines.
-I was surprised with the Briatore private team. really. I've never heard anything about it so far.
-Will Kimi accept the seemingly slave job of partnering Hamilton? We'll see...
-I don't think Aston Martin would like to have its name in the engines.
-I think Chandhok should wait a bit until his results improve or else be test driver. Plus, I don't think Sutil will leave Force India.
-Sebastian Loeb should be nuts to go F1 with not much in the way of single-seaters experience.

Wizzie: I like your thinking MBF... a Rosberg Win... remind me to buy you a pint if that happens

Two pints if it's at Interlagos.

I wonder if Fisichella's pole position hasn't put a major spanner in the works for Force India's decision makers.

Captain Hammer wrote:What do you mean it's not a good idea? It's a bloody fanatasic idea.

Yeah... bloody indeed...

CarlosFerreira wrote:I wonder if Fisichella's pole position hasn't put a major spanner in the works for Force India's decision makers.

I was thinking this too, I heard Liuzzi had a contract, though they're not saying with which team they probably meant Force India, but I suppose Force India will want to keep Fisi, so maybe Sutil is going to McLaren or Williams next year.

Sutil to Williams is possible, but I don't see McLaren going for him over Rosberg or Raikkonen though.
Admittedly I thought Fisi's career was dead in the water and it would be an easy decision to replace him. Not so it seems.

McLaren would go for Sutil over Rosberg, because he wouldn't pose nearly as much of a threat to Lewis as Rosberg. But Kovalainen is worse than both of them, so he's perfect.

shinji wrote:McLaren would go for Sutil over Rosberg, because he wouldn't pose nearly as much of a threat to Lewis as Rosberg. But Kovalainen is worse than both of them, so he's perfect.

+ Sutil used to be Hamilton's teammate in GP2 IIRC

Here's one out of left-field...

Raikkonen to Renault (or whatever Renault becomes) as part of the Alonso deal? I certainly can't see McLaren taking him and having two competing team-mates anyway, and I can't see him wanting to go there and get, at best, equal billing with Hamilton. Rosberg & Sutil, whilst both highly talented, are more likely to accept being the #2 driver at McLaren, at least for a couple of seasons. Raikkonen would surely want top billing wherever he goes, wouldn't he?


And as for USF1, I reckon if they want American drivers, they have to be looking at Patrick for a race seat. Yes, she's only 5th in the IndyCar series and hasn't won any races, but there isn't another American driver ahead of her.

Enforcer wrote:Here's one out of left-field...

Raikkonen to Renault (or whatever Renault becomes) as part of the Alonso deal?

No.

Here's one out of left-field...

Räikkönen to stay at Ferrari and pretty much every spanish sports-journalist to the unemployment-line.

DonTirri wrote:

Enforcer wrote:Here's one out of left-field...

Raikkonen to Renault (or whatever Renault becomes) as part of the Alonso deal?

No.

Here's one out of left-field...

Räikkönen to stay at Ferrari and pretty much every spanish sports-journalist to the unemployment-line.

Word.

Enforcer wrote:And as for USF1, I reckon if they want American drivers, they have to be looking at Patrick for a race seat. Yes, she's only 5th in the IndyCar series and hasn't won any races, but there isn't another American driver ahead of her.

And both USF1 and Patrick herself have shot that suggestion down. No, they'd probably be looking at Johnathon Summerton from the Formula Atleantic series, or possibly Formula Two's Robert Wickens (even if he is Canadian).