Grand Prix Rejects

F1000X wrote:

coops wrote:Are you sure you're from America?

I never watched Friends. Ever.

I thought Friends was a bit like Star Trek or I Love Lucy; everyones seen at least one! Nevermind, you unintentionally made me laugh so thanks for that.

Bernie looks drunk already.

F1000X wrote:Bernie looks drunk already.

he was doing his "disgruntled landowner" walk, with that "get off my property" glare at anything that was moving

I wasn't on here because I was watching it on BBC's internet site. Fairly unrepresentative so far I reckon. Button in 6th, Hamilton in 18th? And the likes of Liuzzi, Buemi and a few other unlikely candidates (Alguersauri) in the top 10... FP2 may well be more representative if there is no more rain. But if it does, and few people have a baseline to work from for tomorrow (and di Grassi hasn't been out at all yet due to his seat being taken by D'Ambrosia for the first session...)

Wet to dry session doesn't tell us a lot, but according to the Beeb:

1) Webber - 1:54.589
2) Schumacher - 1:54.708
3) Sutil - 1:54.827
4) Vettel - 1:55.137
5) Alguersuari - 1:55.160.
Others include (and sorry if I miss out your favourite driver): Button sixth fastest with 1:55.333. Alonso in 11th with 1:56.090. Hamilton in 18th with 1:56.884.

2nd session might be more enlightening if it doesn't rain again.

Crikey, Alonso is ON IT!

CarlosFerreira wrote:Crikey, Alonso is ON IT!

And then off it - it was a shame, because he was on a very quick lap there, and looked like he could give Vettel a run for his money.

interestingly, it seems that whilst the Red Bull is blistering quick in qualifying trim, their pace is less impressive on high fuel - Button and Vettel were both on track doing a high fuel run, and they were doing very similar lap times (1m53's).
Also, promisingly, Williams, and in particular Rubens, seem to be doing fairly well - Rubens is currently in 6th place, and he had very good pace on the harder tyre, whilst Hulkenberg is just on the fringes of the top 10, being in 11th place. Renault haven't had the best of times, meanwhile - Kubica has had problems with hydraulics problems, and has lost at least half a hour, and probably more, whilst Petrov is down in 14th.

And although Rosberg is in the top 10 at the moment, he was suffering from problems with his differential in FP1, and Mercedes have decided that they will have to change his transmission, so Rosberg will have a grid penalty for qualifying.

mario wrote:...

Sorry, mario. Too long to quote.

But, Alonso: at least he provided a Monty Python moment there.

Vettel is simply going to walk away with this, isn't he?

Rubens the first of the non-Champ contenders, The Hulk close to the Top 10 but with an impending gearbox penalty. Shame there, but a good showing by Williams.

Petrov maybe a little below expectations, Kubica beat him comfortably despite only doing 1 lap.

Shout out for Glock, he was trying...

Greetings everyone - from Singapore!

As any of you who've actually been to a GP will know, you can actually tell a lot less standing trackside than you can watching on the telly or following live updates. Nevertheless, it's been exciting to be trackside. There's a very good crowd even though the security staff etc. can be a bit over-zealous and you suspect they don't know much about F1. But yes, the heat and humidity are stifling.

I wouldn't worry about rain for quali or the race (famous last words). According to the locals (ie my cousins) it always rains heavily for about 30 minutes to an hour in the late afternoon but that's all. This is not the wet season at the moment. So expect a shower around 4-5pm local time each day, but what it will do is make the track green.

There's so much constantly going on in the precinct. Compared to, say, Melbourne (which is my only reference point) which has quite a festival atmosphere, Singapore has a party atmosphere. As a result, there's not much on-track action aside from F1 but there's a lot of noise nevertheless. So, sadly, there's no real prospect of live podcast segments from the track, and time differences mean that Jamie and I can't record anything via Skype etc. when I get back to where I'm staying.

However, as you know this weekend I'm not just the Site Author and Senior GP Analyst, but also F1 Rejects Staff Photographer From Behind The Fence. Here are a few pics from today to whet your appetite (cropped but basically unedited - I don't have my photo editing software with me):

Button at turn 16 during FP1:


Kubica at turn 16 during FP1:


Schumacher at turn 15 during FP1:


Liuzzi at turn 13 just after the Anderson Bridge during FP2:


Trulli at turn 13 during FP2:


Vettel on the Esplanade on the run to turn 14 during FP2:

The first three pictures are just breathtaking! Thanks for posting!!

Those are some good pictures Enoch. I can see that you are using a rather high ISO-setting on the latter pictures - how well does the track lights work from a photographers perspective? Also, which lens(es?) are you using?

Very nice photos - particularly the first two pictures of Button and Kubica.

I take it, since it would have been on the far side of your grandstand, that you didn't see Jaime Alguersuari smashing into the wall? With the sparks and the dust being kicked up, I guess that would have made for an exciting picture (and, incidentally, how did Jaime get away without damaging his suspension or his transmission - it was quite a hefty impact).

thomasq wrote:Those are some good pictures Enoch. I can see that you are using a rather high ISO-setting on the latter pictures - how well does the track lights work from a photographers perspective? Also, which lens(es?) are you using?

<photography jargon warning>
I am using a brand new Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8. You're right, in some of those pics I'm using ISO 800. It's higher that what I'd like, but oh well. Although I recall reading somewhere that these lights are brighter than football field lights, I guess football stadia lights are all pointing inwards and so there's a concentration of light. Here the lights are strung out and so I found that it's no better than in a stadium - and in some places a bit worse. Having said that, if it weren't for the f/2.8 I'd be using ISO 1600, so at least with ISO 800 I'm able to deploy a semi-decent shutter speed. Otherwise it would be so hard to get anything in focus. Autofocuses really struggle at street circuits because of all the fencing. The Trulli and Vettel shots were both using manual focus.
</photography jargon warning>

mario wrote:Very nice photos - particularly the first two pictures of Button and Kubica.

I take it, since it would have been on the far side of your grandstand, that you didn't see Jaime Alguersuari smashing into the wall? With the sparks and the dust being kicked up, I guess that would have made for an exciting picture (and, incidentally, how did Jaime get away without damaging his suspension or his transmission - it was quite a hefty impact).

Thanks. See what I said in the ROTR thread - I wasn't in my grandstand seat for either session (although the Button shot was taken from the top corner of the grandstand before the security people blocked off the area because too many amateur photographers were congregating there - party poopers!), so I didn't see Jaime crash. I'll be there for quali and the race - when I am more focussed on what's actually happening than on photography!

:3 thanks to threads like these, I would almost get into photography.
But I think it's less fun since everything's digital these days anyway.

Some videos:

Alguersuari hits the wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We0l1S2JA5Q

Sutil Flying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbZoQdF1tNY

Kobayashi Spin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEbKLn7hKfg

See before being removed

What a brilliant picture, that of Truli in Turn 13. What exactly is that inside kerb made of? Quite a hefty relief in it.

eytl wrote:

mario wrote:Very nice photos - particularly the first two pictures of Button and Kubica.

I take it, since it would have been on the far side of your grandstand, that you didn't see Jaime Alguersuari smashing into the wall? With the sparks and the dust being kicked up, I guess that would have made for an exciting picture (and, incidentally, how did Jaime get away without damaging his suspension or his transmission - it was quite a hefty impact).

Thanks. See what I said in the ROTR thread - I wasn't in my grandstand seat for either session (although the Button shot was taken from the top corner of the grandstand before the security people blocked off the area because too many amateur photographers were congregating there - party poopers!), so I didn't see Jaime crash. I'll be there for quali and the race - when I am more focussed on what's actually happening than on photography!

It's a shame that the security guards blocked off that part of the stands - still, I imagine that for the race itself, that would be a brilliant spot, especially in the opening laps. Also, is there any chance of you uploading those photos to flickr at some point?

CarlosFerreira wrote:What a brilliant picture, that of Truli in Turn 13. What exactly is that inside kerb made of? Quite a hefty relief in it.

Good question - I guess that they'd have to be something relatively tough, given how the cars bounce over them, so my first guess would be painted concrete slabs. However, that might be a bit too heavy to carry around, so my second suggestion would be some sort of high strength plastic or composite material, similar to what they have used at Monza (the raised kerbs on the insides of the chicanes).

Waris wrote::3 thanks to threads like these, I would almost get into photography.
But I think it's less fun since everything's digital these days anyway.

Tend to agree, I still use my SLR with long lenses/doublers as it's fun! Having said that the digi is about 100th of the weight.
Lotus pic is a killer. Might have been worth submitting that to an agency?

FP2 seemed pretty interesting. Sadly there was no coverage of it in Spain

mario wrote:Also, is there any chance of you uploading those photos to flickr at some point?

Yes, the best pics will be up on Flickr at some point. But because I'm pedantic and insist on uploading photos to Flickr in the same chronological order as they were taken, it'll be a while before they go up (there's quite a backlog at the moment).

What I could do is edit the best pics and put them in a Facebook album or similar in advance.

eagleash wrote:Lotus pic is a killer. Might have been worth submitting that to an agency?

Thanks for the compliment. Actually I took a heap of good shots from that spot and it'll be a real task choosing between them.

Even just standing there for about 15-20 minutes, it was fascinating to see the variety of different lines taken at that corner. For example, Trulli and Heidfeld tended to hug the apex tightly. The Ferrari drivers tended to go for a shallower entry and a wider exit line. Rosberg was not as close to the apex as Trulli and Heidfeld but tended to follow the line of the corner very geometrically. Hulkenberg for one tended to take a wider line in and a later apex. Kobayashi was by far the messiest in that corner - Kamui never got within about a metre and a half of the apex. Kept on costing himself a few tenths simply by going so wide.

eytl wrote:

thomasq wrote:Those are some good pictures Enoch. I can see that you are using a rather high ISO-setting on the latter pictures - how well does the track lights work from a photographers perspective? Also, which lens(es?) are you using?

<photography jargon warning>
I am using a brand new Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8. You're right, in some of those pics I'm using ISO 800. It's higher that what I'd like, but oh well. Although I recall reading somewhere that these lights are brighter than football field lights, I guess football stadia lights are all pointing inwards and so there's a concentration of light. Here the lights are strung out and so I found that it's no better than in a stadium - and in some places a bit worse. Having said that, if it weren't for the f/2.8 I'd be using ISO 1600, so at least with ISO 800 I'm able to deploy a semi-decent shutter speed. Otherwise it would be so hard to get anything in focus. Autofocuses really struggle at street circuits because of all the fencing. The Trulli and Vettel shots were both using manual focus.
</photography jargon warning>

Bought the lens in Singapore did you? I've been told that camera equipment is cheap in Singapore, although I didn't see any big camera shops when I was there a couple of months ago. Nice lens though. I've had trouble photographing motorsports with a Nikkor 18-200 f/3.5-5.6, so the aperture makes a huge difference. It's difficult because you only get one or two good pictures for every 100 or 200 you shoot, which is a bit demotivating.

I'm looking forward to some more pics from todays action - wouldn't mind seeing some of the Formula BMW (last race ever?) and Porsche action too.

Massa's out, and he didn't set a time, we know who's going through now.

Klien nearly a full second ahead of Senna.
Virgin beats Lotus.

Credit to Christian Klien, for being 1.2 seconds quicker than Klien, and only 1.3 seconds of Trulli. Well done to him.

QuickYoda41 wrote:Klien nearly a full second ahead of Senna.
Virgin beats Lotus.

Yeah, Klien's done well - four years out of a car, into a new one just one day before on a track new to him and he outqualifies his team-mate by 1.2 seconds. Heidfeld is also ahead of Kobayashi, but obviously they won't be very representative times as it's only Q1.

And for anyone who missed it, there was a brief shot of Yamamoto in the HRT pits... looking pretty healthy

Hulkenberg seemed really pissed off didn't he. Who's everyone's money on for pole.

Kobayashi >>> Heidfeld

Of course is Heidfeld's first race and he doesn't know the car. But that being the case, why did Sauber change his drivers at this point of the season, with no testing?

Well now, that was pretty damn good!

The five title contenders in the top five positions on the grid. Red Bull beaten to the pole by Ferrari. It's all set up for an enticing encounter tomorrow - let's hope for a wet track to add to the drama!

Well done to Barrichello as well, 8 tenths off Alonso, and less than 3 tenths off Webber. That's impressive, maybe he could use this result to push Williams ahead of Force India in the standings.

Ferrim wrote:Kobayashi >>> Heidfeld

Of course is Heidfeld's first race and he doesn't know the car. But that being the case, why did Sauber change his drivers at this point of the season, with no testing?

Kamui gave Nick a second. Wow.

Brilliant effort all round - looks like the flexi tests did hurt the Red Bulls after all. Where's Webber's head, though?

What really made my day was Lucky Ba*d Christian Danner ridiculing Waahmilton's approach to Singapore Sling on German TV

redbulljack14 wrote:Hulkenberg seemed really pissed off didn't he. Who's everyone's money on for pole.

He was livid, and for good reason - Rubens, who has an upgraded floor and front wing, was nearly 0.7s ahead of Hulkenberg at the end of Q2, who won't get the new parts until the next race.
On top of that, Hulkenberg will be taking a grid penalty for a new gearbox (I mistakenly said Rosberg was going to have a penalty, but it is the other Nico who needs to have a gearbox change), so he will be starting down in 17th place once the penalty kicks in - whilst Rubens has pulled out a belter of a lap to qualify in 6th place (it seems that eh likes this circuit, as he is going quite well around here).

Paul Hayes wrote:Well now, that was pretty damn good!

The five title contenders in the top five positions on the grid. Red Bull beaten to the pole by Ferrari. It's all set up for an enticing encounter tomorrow - let's hope for a wet track to add to the drama!

It was a scruffy lap by Vettel there - I think that without a decent first lap (as Vettel was stuck behind Schumacher, who was on a timed lap), and with Alonso on pole, he was on full attack and made quite a few little mistakes. Credit where it is due to Alonso, as he was bang on in each corner, and he drove a very good lap to put the pressure on Vettel (who, not for the first time, may have cracked when somebody turns the pressure up on him).
And considering that Mclaren have not been quite on the same pace as Ferrari and Red Bull, Hamilton pulled out a pretty decent lap as well - so we have got some of the most aggressive drivers in close proximity at the front of the grid (which should make for an interesting opening lap tomorrow).

[EDIT] It seems that it is a shame that some of the drivers could not be as quick on the track as they were in the pit lane - Klien has been fined twice for speeding in the pit lane (by quite a sizeable margin), as have Glock and Senna.

No / Driver 20 - Christian Klien
Team HRT F1 Team
Time 22:04:23
Session Qualifying
Fact Exceeding the 60 km/h speed limit in Pit Lane during Qualifying- 92.5 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine € 6,600

No / Driver 24 - Timo Glock
Team Virgin Racing
Time 22:08:10
Session Qualifying
Fact Exceeding the 60 km/h speed limit in Pit Lane during Qualifying- 76.6 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine € 3,400

No / Driver 21 - Bruno Senna
Team HRT F1 Team
Time 22:10:19
Session Qualifying
Fact Exceeding the 60 km/h speed limit in Pit Lane during Qualifying- 97.4 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine € 7,600

No / Driver 20 - Christian Klien
Team HRT F1 Team
Time 22:10:30
Session Qualifying
Fact Exceeding the 60 km/h speed limit in Pit Lane during Qualifying- 88.2 km/h
Offence Breach of Article 30.12 of the 2010 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Penalty Fine € 5,800

So, it's been an expensive day for HRT - between Klein and Senna, they've racked up €20,000 worth of fines in just over five minutes. The only consolation is that this must be making Kolles pretty annoyed - and anything which does that will be welcomed by many of us.

Meanwhile, Lotus Racing have been reprimanded (but not punished more severely) for releasing Trulli into the path of Di Grassi (I believe during the rush to get back on track following Massa stopping on track).

thomasq wrote:Bought the lens in Singapore did you? I've been told that camera equipment is cheap in Singapore, although I didn't see any big camera shops when I was there a couple of months ago. Nice lens though. I've had trouble photographing motorsports with a Nikkor 18-200 f/3.5-5.6, so the aperture makes a huge difference. It's difficult because you only get one or two good pictures for every 100 or 200 you shoot, which is a bit demotivating.

I'm looking forward to some more pics from todays action - wouldn't mind seeing some of the Formula BMW (last race ever?) and Porsche action too.

No, I bought the lens in Australia two weeks ago - partly for Singapore and partly for a wedding reception last weekend where I was one of the photographers.

I was going to put a few more pics up but it's already past 3am here in Singapore. Plus I didn't get many good shots today, and I didn't get to the track until after the Porsche and Formula BMW races. I'm not sure if I'll see those races tomorrow either. There's lots of spectators and it's all a bit crowded, which when you add in the heat and humidity makes conditions very draining.

There are other aspects which make this a truly "Asian city" Grand Prix which, I'll be honest, I'm finding a bit annoying as the weekend goes on, but that's for another time and place.

A few comments on the F1 action itself. Alonso has been really on it this weekend, you can see it in the body language of the car. Conversely, Webber has not looked fast at all and he's just off like he was at Hockenheim. Bad news from a championship perspective - you just wonder if he can keep up that out-of-his-skin form. Vettel once again lets the pressure get to him in his first Q3 lap. And Alguersuari was a pleasant surprise but that's not entirely unexpected. It's felt like there's been 25 Toro Rossos on the track, they've been churning out the laps and Jaime's dialled himself in.

No thunderstorm today, but some brief showers throughout the day. I would expect some more sporadic rain during the day tomorrow but maybe not during the race itself. One issue with that, though, is how long it takes the track to dry. That's not only because there's no sunlight, but the humidity is ridiculous. The moisture just never goes away.

patrick wrote:

QuickYoda41 wrote:Klien nearly a full second ahead of Senna.
Virgin beats Lotus.

Yeah, Klien's done well - four years out of a car, into a new one just one day before on a track new to him and he outqualifies his team-mate by 1.2 seconds. Heidfeld is also ahead of Kobayashi, but obviously they won't be very representative times as it's only Q1.

And for anyone who missed it, there was a brief shot of Yamamoto in the HRT pits... looking pretty healthy

Fantastic; maybe Kolles is seeing sense and actually doing somedthing for sporting purposes than solely buisness

"So, it's been an expensive day for HRT - between Klein and Senna, they've racked up €20,000 worth of fines in just over five minutes. The only consolation is that this must be making Kolles pretty annoyed - and anything which does that will be welcomed by many of us."

However, I don't think Senna is a second of a lap slower than Klien. I refuse to belive that he is THAT slow, i mean... even Yamamoto isn't THAT slow!

Anyone have any ideas what the wear rates on the tyres are? I didn't pay much attention to practice and I was half-asleep through most of qualy...

Myrvold wrote:However, I don't think Senna is a second of a lap slower than Klien. I refuse to belive that he is THAT slow, i mean... even Yamamoto isn't THAT slow!

Senna surely is faster than this; but he's been overdriving like mad all weekend.

Wizzie wrote:Anyone have any ideas what the wear rates on the tyres are? I didn't pay much attention to practice and I was half-asleep through most of qualy...

Difficult to say. The track has always been wet in places and generally colder than in the last 2 years, and that's bound to have a bearing. Besides, as it has rained every day since F1 arrived in town, the track is always green at the start of a session, and then evolves throughout the sessions. It's notorious, rubber accumulating in the racing line. So I'd hazard a guess and say nobody is absolutely sure what the tyre degradation rates really are.

For the photographers in the forum, I've seen this photo pop up elsewhere, and I thought that there might be some here who like the look of it:

I'm not one of those photographers, but that's very cool! Thanks, mario.