Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **23 Dec 2010, 00:35**

Speaking of Sauber and the C30, it appears that a few shots of Sergio Perez trying out his new chassis have emerged. OK, so at this point, there isn't exactly much attached to the chassis, and some of the finer details have been hidden, but it is the first hint that we have had so far of what the 2011 cars may look like.

Posted: **23 Dec 2010, 06:48**

That airbox looks a bit boxy...

Posted: **23 Dec 2010, 17:30**

tommykl wrote:That airbox looks a bit boxy...

It does, but if you look closely, you can see that the underside of the airbox is shrouded, and other parts of the chassis are partially covered. You can see where the tape and carbon fibre covering have been fitted from these shots of Kobayashi's seat fitting, which suggests that the actual airbox and front of the chassis are probably more svelte.

Posted: **23 Dec 2010, 18:41**

Thanks mario, I didn't notice it at first.

Posted: **29 Dec 2010, 23:28**

do i spy a wing mount?

Posted: **30 Dec 2010, 14:23**

Anyone else notice how Pérez and Kobayashi have nearly the same haircut? It bugs me a little, I have to admit. xD

Posted: **30 Dec 2010, 16:06**

Waris wrote:Anyone else notice how Pérez and Kobayashi have nearly the same haircut? It bugs me a little, I have to admit. xD

Not exactly the same other than both have more hair than Rubens Barrichello but less hair than Nico Rosberg.

Posted: **31 Dec 2010, 11:35**

Bumping this thread back up, because it seems that the first car launch might actually be a bit closer than expected.

The Group Lotus backed Renault team will unveil both the new car and new livery at the Autosport International Motorsport Show at the NEC, from the 15-16th January (in what has to be a spectacularly hyperbolic press release from Autosport - but, given that they are getting an exclusive here, you can see why they were so quick to cosy up to Group Lotus). http://www.autosportinternational.com/public/node/9053

Posted: **01 Jan 2011, 16:58**

mario wrote:Bumping this thread back up, because it seems that the first car launch might actually be a bit closer than expected.

The Group Lotus backed Renault team will unveil both the new car and new livery at the Autosport International Motorsport Show at the NEC, from the 15-16th January (in what has to be a spectacularly hyperbolic press release from Autosport - but, given that they are getting an exclusive here, you can see why they were so quick to cosy up to Group Lotus). http://www.autosportinternational.com/public/node/9053

Wow, it's not usual for a car to be unveiled so soon...

Posted: **03 Jan 2011, 21:52**

it's probably just Bahar lotus trying to be bigger and "better" than Air Asia lotus.
JUST MERGE DANGIT! IT'S THE BEST AND MOST MATURE CHOICE! Grrrrrrr what's next, two lotus indycar teams?
i don't know why, but i remember something like this happening before.

Posted: **04 Jan 2011, 04:01**

mario wrote:Bumping this thread back up, because it seems that the first car launch might actually be a bit closer than expected.

The Group Lotus backed Renault team will unveil both the new car and new livery at the Autosport International Motorsport Show at the NEC, from the 15-16th January (in what has to be a spectacularly hyperbolic press release from Autosport - but, given that they are getting an exclusive here, you can see why they were so quick to cosy up to Group Lotus). http://www.autosportinternational.com/public/node/9053

The one thing from that article that caught my attention was that they're also revealing their 2012 IndyCar. And honestly, that's the only thing being released that I want to see. Well, maybe the T125 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is a TLR designed car, not GLGR). And that new Evora.

Everything cept the GLGR f1 car. :lol:

Posted: **04 Jan 2011, 04:09**

JohnMLTX wrote: Well, maybe the T125 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is a TLR designed car, not GLGR).

The T125 is effectively the trackday version of the T127 if my memory is correct

Posted: **04 Jan 2011, 04:11**

Wizzie wrote:
JohnMLTX wrote: Well, maybe the T125 (which, if I'm not mistaken, is a TLR designed car, not GLGR).

The T125 is effectively the trackday version of the T127 if my memory is correct

That's what I read in Top Gear, at least.

So, shouldn't TLR get some rights to it?

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 13:59**

Further news about car launches - it seems that Force India are postponing the unveiling of the VJM04 until the second test at Jerez beginning on February 10th. However, Force India are still planning on attending the Valencia test, stating on the 1st Feb, but using a (possibly modified) VJM03 car instead. http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE7050PA20110106

So, using the information from scarbsf1's blog, this is what we know so far about the 2011 car release schedule:

Red Bull RB7: TBA

Ferrari "Project 662": Last week of January [ http://www.f1technical.net/news/15825?s ... 220b792da8 ]

McLaren Mercedes MP4-26: TBA

Mercedes W02: TBA

Renault R31: January 31st, with livery unveiled on Jan 13th at ASI, probably using one of the existing R30's [ http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88812 ]

Williams Cosworth FW33: TBA

Force India Mercedes VJM04: Jerez test, Feb 10th

Sauber Ferrari C30: January 31st

Scuderia Toro Rosso Ferrari STR6: 1st Feb, just before the start of the Valencia test session

Team Lotus Renault T128: TBA

Hispania Racing Team Cosworth F111: TBA

Virgin Racing Cosworth VR02: Expected to be the Jerez test, Feb 10th

Testing Schedule
Valencia: February 1st - 3rd
Jerez: February 10th - 13th
Barcelona: February 18th - 21st
Bahrain: March 3rd - 6th

However, the implication from the Reuters article is that a number of those teams which have not already announced a launch date are probably waiting until the eve of the first test.

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 15:24**

So who will have KERS and who will not? I guess that could influence the pecking order of the teams tremenduously. At the moment, my guess would be that F1 in 2011 is all about Hamilton vs Alonso all over again, but you'll never know until the first race. And we haven't even seen any testing with the new cars.

Which team do you think will make the biggest jump up the grid?

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 15:34**

Biggest jump? I am hoping for a Williams Cosworth KERS based super revival in the hands of none other than Rubens Barrichello!

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 17:11**

Yannick wrote:So who will have KERS and who will not? I guess that could influence the pecking order of the teams tremenduously. At the moment, my guess would be that F1 in 2011 is all about Hamilton vs Alonso all over again, but you'll never know until the first race. And we haven't even seen any testing with the new cars.

Which team do you think will make the biggest jump up the grid?

We only know for certain that a handful of teams will have KERS fitted to their cars for 2011, and those are Mclaren, Ferrari and Williams. Now, Mclaren are using the Mercedes-Zytek system from 2009, Ferrari are believed to be using an updated version of the Magnetti Marelli 2009 system, and Williams are using an in house battery system (which has been in development alongside the flywheel system being used by Porsche in their GT cars). In case you are curious why Williams are not using their flywheel system, according to Patrick Head it is because of packaging issues (although the flywheel is lighter than the battery system, it takes up more room, and the battery cells themselves can be moulded around the cockpit).

We also know for certain that Team Lotus will not be using KERS in 2011, since Gascoyne in focussing predominantly on improving the aerodynamics and mechanical grip of the cars, along with weight reduction measures to improve the balance of the car. And I suspect, although there is no confirmation of this, that neither Virgin Racing or HRT will use KERS either; for the former, it is the same reason as Lotus (getting bigger performance gains for less elsewhere), and for the latter, well, we don't have any real idea whether they even have a car.

Now, although there has been no official confirmation, it would be surprising if Mercedes did not use the system they developed with Zytek, and Renault are likely to use the Magnetti Marelli system although, again, there is no confirmation. Given that Renault and Ferrari were talking about a standardised KERS unit based on the Marelli system, though, the odds are good that Renault will use KERS in 2011.

Now, there are a number of teams who might or might not use KERS, and things are less clear. Force India could potentially use the Mercedes-Zytek system, since they have an option in their engine deal with Mercedes for their KERS, and a drivetrain/technology partnership with Mclaren. Sauber are likely to have a similar option in their engine deal with Ferrari, although they have not indicated whether or not they will go for KERS.

However, the big unknown is whether Red Bull and Toro Rosso will use KERS or not. Now, the fact that Mclaren and Ferrari will be using KERS is one factor, and the standardised weight distribution will remove some of the problems that plagued the KERS teams in 2009. However, it is likely that KERS will increase the cooling requirements, and the added volume could make the cars bulkier - and we know how Newey is especially partial to tightly packaged cars.
I think that Red Bull will probably adopt KERS, probably the Magnetti Marelli system (as I think that the Mercedes-Zytek system will only be available for Mercedes powered teams), but it is also possible that Newey might reject KERS for a more compactly packaged car with lower cooling requirements (i.e. also cutting down drag).

As for performance differences, well, assuming that the playing field remains roughly where it was in 2009, the biggest winners are likely to be Mercedes, Mclaren and possibly Ferrari - the first two for having the best system, and Ferrari for the benefits of additional experience to draw on. Whether the performance advantage that they have outweighs that of their rivals, particularly in terms of aerodynamics (i.e. Red Bull and Newey), is another matter.
What could throw a spanner in the works is the unknown performance of the Williams system - maybe Williams have nailed a particularly good system, and have a chance of making up some ground? Barrichello has hinted that Williams have been bolder with the design of the FW33, so perhaps there is the possibility of Williams improving to, say, 5th in the WCC (i.e. behind the big four teams, but ahead of Renault)?

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 17:14**

mario wrote:And I suspect, although there is no confirmation of this, that neither Virgin Racing or HRT will use KERS either;

And there is still no confirmation that HRT will use a Chassis :mrgreen:

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 17:22**

Superb roundup there Mario, and I tell you what, after giving it some thought, it's got me quite excited about next season. What if Red Bull choose not to go with KERS, as well as other teams? A nice big variable between not just the bigger and smaller teams, but across the whole grid should really spice the racing and the season up, as some circuits will favour the KERS boost whilst others will not. It'll be like the early 80s all over again with the turbos vs. the DFVs!

Posted: **06 Jan 2011, 21:58**

Thank you mario for the interesting insights. That KERS topic shall remain interesting for a while.

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 05:14**

DanielPT wrote:
mario wrote:And I suspect, although there is no confirmation of this, that neither Virgin Racing or HRT will use KERS either;

And there is still no confirmation that HRT will use a Chassis

I'm almost certain that HRT will have a chassis. I'll bet my kidneys that they have a chassis. They will most likely start testing wit hthe F110 plus new parts and stuff, then later on introduce their 2011 car. They will make the grid this year, not might, WILL.

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 05:32**

Peter wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
mario wrote:And I suspect, although there is no confirmation of this, that neither Virgin Racing or HRT will use KERS either;

And there is still no confirmation that HRT will use a Chassis

I'm almost certain that HRT will have a chassis. I'll bet my kidneys that they have a chassis. They will most likely start testing wit hthe F110 plus new parts and stuff, then later on introduce their 2011 car. They will make the grid this year, not might, WILL.

I don't doubt that they will line up at Bahrain. I'm worried they won't be there at Brazil.

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 10:15**

the Masked Lapwing wrote:I don't doubt that they will line up at Bahrain. I'm worried they won't be there at Brazil.

I am a bit skeptical I must admit. Nevertheless I really hope they do line up and do qualify in that awesome rejectness!

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 11:12**

Doesn't HRT have that gearbox deal with Williams? Maybe that also includes their KERS? That would be funny, especially if it would propel them ahead of Virgin again (and maybe Lotus, though I doubt that would be possible).

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 11:26**

Yes they have. But I am affraid that it only relates to gearboxes. I read somewhere that both Virgin and HRT would be using KERS this season. Anyway, looking at the results of 2009 that can turn out not being a bad thing...

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 15:52**

Just to know, who will supply the KERS system for Cosworth powered cars (excluding Williams, I presume)?

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 16:04**

Phoenix wrote:Just to know, who will supply the KERS system for Cosworth powered cars (excluding Williams, I presume)?

Sorry, I wanted to write: "I read somewhere that both Virgin and HRT would not be using KERS this season."

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 16:17**

Yeah I think it's pretty much confirmed that neither Virgin or HRT will run with KERS in 2011, so that just leaves Williams who are obviously sorting their own unit out.

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 21:47**

the Masked Lapwing wrote:I don't doubt that they will line up at Bahrain. I'm worried they won't be there at Brazil.

How can you say that now of all times? Now ,when they have a new driver bringing in lots of money. I think they are definitely financially secure at the moment.

Posted: **07 Jan 2011, 23:07**

Peter wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:I don't doubt that they will line up at Bahrain. I'm worried they won't be there at Brazil.

How can you say that now of all times? Now ,when they have a new driver bringing in lots of money. I think they are definitely financially secure at the moment.

Not necessarily. In the thread discussing Narain's comeback, it was rumoured that he is bringing $8 million, which would equate to about £5.15 million at current exchange rates.
However, an engine contract alone would swallow that up (engine contracts are fixed at £5 million a year), and bear in mind that HRT might have to pay compensation to their current drivers for terminating their contracts early.
Development work is also very expensive, and budgets have a big influence there - look at Lotus Racing, said to have had an initial investment of $60 million, out developing Virgin Racing, who started out with about $35 million (but compared to the $110 million that Toro Rosso spends, and they are the smallest established team, it'll take some time to bridge the gap to the midfield). And asides from this tie in with Tata, courtesy of Narain, there have been no concrete announcements from the team themselves about new sponsors.

Back to the topic of the 2011 cars - we now have more interesting developments, as Mclaren seem to be planning on, surprisingly, using the MP4-25, modified with parts from the 2011 car, for the first test in Valencia. Instead, the actual MP4-26 will be revealed on Feb 4th in Berlin (why Berlin, I cannot say). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88834

Now, it isn't entirely unusual for a team to skip the first test - Red Bull did that in 2009 and 2010 - but that is at odds to what their rivals are doing this time around. For example, Red Bull are said to be working extra hard this year to get their car ready for Valencia, because they want to rack up as many miles on the latest specification of Pirelli's slicks on their 2011 car.

Posted: **12 Jan 2011, 11:21**

There you go, Ferrari have confirmed their launch.

Posted: **13 Jan 2011, 14:29**

I wonder if RB finishes their car in time for the first test.

Posted: **13 Jan 2011, 14:49**

mario wrote:Now updated to take into account the latest announcements
2011 Car Launch Dates

Red Bull RB7: TBA (probably Feb 1st, though; Red Bull are working very hard to get the car ready for the first test)

Ferrari "Project 662": January 28th

McLaren Mercedes MP4-26: Feb 4th (with an interim car for the proceeding test)

Mercedes W02: Feb 1st, in front of the pit garage [ http://www.f1technical.net/news/15841?s ... 9cb32835a0 ]

Renault R31: January 31st, with livery unveiled on Jan 13th at ASI [ http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88812 ]

Williams Cosworth FW33: Feb 1st, in the pit lane at Valencia [ http://www.f1technical.net/news/15833 ]

Force India Mercedes VJM04: Jerez test, Feb 10th

Sauber Ferrari C30: January 31st

Scuderia Toro Rosso Ferrari STR6: 1st Feb, just before the start of the Valencia test session

Team Lotus Renault T128: TBA

Hispania Racing Team Cosworth F111: TBA (but they are said to be planning on running the current car at Valencia to gather tyre data, before moving onto an interim car for Jerez)

Virgin Racing Cosworth VR02: Expected to be the Jerez test, Feb 10th

Testing Schedule
Valencia: February 1st - 3rd
Jerez: February 10th - 13th
Barcelona: February 18th - 21st
Bahrain: March 3rd - 6th

Posted: **24 Jan 2011, 19:45**

a few more teasers popping up...

Team Lotus T128 - a cookie if you spot the clever (or accidental) sponsor sneaking in on the first pic -

and on the other side, the Renault R31 being fired up today.

meanwhile, Sauber plays it conservatively as usual, with the C30 "not a revolution" (article originally in german)

Looking forward to seeing the new Ferrari on friday!

Posted: **24 Jan 2011, 21:38**

CNN?

Would be appropriate.

Posted: **24 Jan 2011, 21:55**

JeremyMcClean wrote:CNN?

Would be appropriate.

Yep, its inclusion in the pic does look less than deliberate but I'm sure CNN won't mind

Makes me wonder, if TL runs CNN all day on their factory televisions because they sponsor them, does Virgin run poker channels all day? heh

Posted: **24 Jan 2011, 22:46**

I do think CNN sponsored Lotus Racing last year? (more for a confirmation for myself than anything else really)

Posted: **24 Jan 2011, 23:32**

Myrvold wrote:I do think CNN sponsored Lotus Racing last year? (more for a confirmation for myself than anything else really)

Indeed they did, the logo ran on the front wing if my memory serves me correctly.

Posted: **25 Jan 2011, 13:14**

patrick wrote:
Myrvold wrote:I do think CNN sponsored Lotus Racing last year? (more for a confirmation for myself than anything else really)

Indeed they did, the logo ran on the front wing if my memory serves me correctly.

Posted: **25 Jan 2011, 20:49**

oh good, I was right. And I gained a new wallpaper out of it, thank you!

A couple more pictures popping up on twitter;
@scarbsf1 says this is a picture of the Renault R31: (looks like a wind tunnel mock up?)

Meanwhile, Musician/DJ Jaime Alguersuari (apparently he's an F1 driver too, but you'd never guess from his twitter) gets his seat fitted in the TR6

and one to add to the list, Team Lotus have announced they will launch the car online, 5am GMT Monday 31st.

Grand Prix Rejects

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