Your Reject of the Year!

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 15 Oct 2011, 18:18

[quote="Phoenix"This is not like 20/30 years ago. Reliability has improved massively ever since, and if any of "our" reject teams managed to qualify for a race and finish it, they could well walk away with a top ten result through pure attrition. Today, only three or four cars at most use to retire from races. This way, it's very difficult for teams to achieve top ten results. I reckon, however, that Lotus might be in the midfield by next year, but MVR and HRT will take a couple more years before if everything goes well for them.[/quote]
And someone who could do with having this point drilled hard into him is Eddie Jordan.

Ducktanian · Post by **Ducktanian** » 15 Oct 2011, 22:11

Non-Drivers:

3. Renault
Really expected more from this team, but after Malaysia all we got was disappointment. Also they changed their lively from the awesome yellow one D:
If they're not careful they could be a permanent feature in the midfield.

2. 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix
What could really be said that hasn't been said already.

1. Williams
Reasons as seen above. I dearly hope this team isn't on the way out.

Drivers:

3. Mark Webber
Much as I hate to say it, Webber has been relatively nowhere this year. Last year he was pushing Vettel the entire way with 4 wins and many podiums, this year he's only finished in the top 2 twice. It could be all down to his inability to make a good start but still =/

2. Rubens Barrichello
As with Mark, where did his form go? Maybe its time for Rubens to say goodbye.

1. Narain Karthikeyan
Whose idea was it to give this guy a drive? He made Luizzi look fast. There was absolutely no place for him in F1.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 15 Oct 2011, 22:45

dinizintheoven wrote:
Phoenix wrote:This is not like 20/30 years ago. Reliability has improved massively ever since, and if any of "our" reject teams managed to qualify for a race and finish it, they could well walk away with a top ten result through pure attrition. Today, only three or four cars at most use to retire from races. This way, it's very difficult for teams to achieve top ten results. I reckon, however, that Lotus might be in the midfield by next year, but MVR and HRT will take a couple more years before if everything goes well for them.

And someone who could do with having this point drilled hard into him is Eddie Jordan.

This.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 16 Oct 2011, 00:06

My Reject of the year is gonna be somewhat contraversial.... but bear with me on this right....

Pirelli Tyres While they have spiced things up a bit during SOME races they have made some questionable choices over compounds which has caused teams which get through to Q3 to not bother set any times ( some thing i don't remember this happening last year with bridgestone)

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 16 Oct 2011, 11:23

I wonder how many laps Webber has spent ahead of Vettel yet, apart from Germany. It can't be that many!

WeirdKerr wrote:Pirelli Tyres While they have spiced things up a bit during SOME races they have made some questionable choices over compounds which has caused teams which get through to Q3 to not bother set any times ( some thing i don't remember this happening last year with bridgestone)

Qualifying is something that needs to be looked at, but I still think the positives that Pirelli have brought far outweigh the negatives.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 16 Oct 2011, 12:01

3. Lewis Hamilton - Too much dangerous driving and "is it because I'm black" opinions.
:evil:

2. Bahrain GP - Because others GPs made it this year.
:twisted:

1. Williams - nuff said.

MinardiFan95 · Post by **MinardiFan95** » 17 Oct 2011, 11:14

Currently my nominations are:

3rd - Lewis Hamilton - Last year Lewis seemed a much more mature driver then previously. This year, he's been more erratic then ever, even more so then most of the rookies. Add to that the whole "is it because I'm black?" saga and Lewis is deserving of a ROTY podium.

2nd - Virgin - Really should have beaten HRT, but alas haven't (yet, anyway).

1st - Williams - Would I be right in saying that this is their worst season ever? Heck, even 2006 seems good compared to this trainwreck of a season. It's hard to believe that this team was once dominant in the 80's and 90's given their current form. Maldonado certainly hasn't helped at all with his inexperience (save for Monaco - he really should have scored well if it wasn't for Hamilton being an idiot) and Barrichello seems to be getting a bit too old for F1. I'd be surprised if they're not battling with the Lotuses/Air Asia Caterhams next season - or even with Virgin and HRT.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2011, 20:21

MinardiFan95 wrote:1st - Williams - Would I be right in saying that this is their worst season ever? Heck, even 2006 seems good compared to this trainwreck of a season. It's hard to believe that this team was once dominant in the 80's and 90's given their current form. Maldonado certainly hasn't helped at all with his inexperience (save for Monaco - he really should have scored well if it wasn't for Hamilton being an idiot) and Barrichello seems to be getting a bit too old for F1. I'd be surprised if they're not battling with the Lotuses/Air Asia Caterhams next season - or even with Virgin and HRT.

Hell, at least they were quick in 2006 - Rosberg getting fastest lap on debut comes to mind. Reliability, on the other hand...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Oct 2011, 20:43

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
MinardiFan95 wrote:1st - Williams - Would I be right in saying that this is their worst season ever? Heck, even 2006 seems good compared to this trainwreck of a season. It's hard to believe that this team was once dominant in the 80's and 90's given their current form. Maldonado certainly hasn't helped at all with his inexperience (save for Monaco - he really should have scored well if it wasn't for Hamilton being an idiot) and Barrichello seems to be getting a bit too old for F1. I'd be surprised if they're not battling with the Lotuses/Air Asia Caterhams next season - or even with Virgin and HRT.

Hell, at least they were quick in 2006 - Rosberg getting fastest lap on debut comes to mind. Reliability, on the other hand...

Didn't they lock out the second row in Malaysia as well?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Oct 2011, 20:58

redbulljack14 wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
MinardiFan95 wrote:1st - Williams - Would I be right in saying that this is their worst season ever? Heck, even 2006 seems good compared to this trainwreck of a season. It's hard to believe that this team was once dominant in the 80's and 90's given their current form. Maldonado certainly hasn't helped at all with his inexperience (save for Monaco - he really should have scored well if it wasn't for Hamilton being an idiot) and Barrichello seems to be getting a bit too old for F1. I'd be surprised if they're not battling with the Lotuses/Air Asia Caterhams next season - or even with Virgin and HRT.

Hell, at least they were quick in 2006 - Rosberg getting fastest lap on debut comes to mind. Reliability, on the other hand...

Didn't they lock out the second row in Malaysia as well?

Yeah. But that was about the point where the wheels fell off the wagon. The car was competitive sometimes. It just kept blowing up whenever it showed an inkling of pace.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Oct 2011, 21:12

Wizzie wrote:The car was competitive sometimes.

I miss those days.

razta · Post by **razta** » 29 Oct 2011, 04:52

ok.. apparently Lewis has had ONLY 6 pens this year.. but if you add the reprimands in it takes it up to 9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT-Mhtl-ZmI

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Oct 2011, 09:21

golic_2004 wrote:
Cynon wrote:4: Karthikeyan, Frankly, he did better in F1 than in NASCAR trucks, but I think everyone expected that he was going to be really bad anyway.

He didn't do all that bad in NASCAR Trucks, especially considering he had never been to any of the tracks. Could have won at Talladega too. It was a testing moment for him doing NASCAR.+

Before Karthikeyan, I had never seen someone crash into so many other cars in a straight line before... other than perhaps Shigeaki Hattori....

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 29 Oct 2011, 13:04

I'm going to have to go with 3) Hamilton, 2) Williams, 1) Bahrain GP.

If I could nominate 4, it would be Webber, the only thing he's done right this season is to publicly be against the Bahrain GP.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 31 Oct 2011, 00:08

I'm going to nominate the Hamilton - Massa feud for being the most girlie feud ever witnessed in the history of motor sport. Why this week before the Indian GP, Hamilton complained that he tried to give Massa a cuddle and Massa just shrugged him off. (Tears.) Most of the crashes have been merely inept, and the abuse has been timid. Lets face it, its not Senna-Prost, or Mansell-Piquet, or Jones-Reutemann, or Shumi-Anyonethatgotinhisway, or even Webber-Vettell.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 31 Oct 2011, 12:29

Ross Prawn wrote:I'm going to nominate the Hamilton - Massa feud for being the most girlie feud ever witnessed in the history of motor sport. Why this week before the Indian GP, Hamilton complained that he tried to give Massa a cuddle and Massa just shrugged him off. (Tears.) Most of the crashes have been merely inept, and the abuse has been timid. Lets face it, its not Senna-Prost, or Mansell-Piquet, or Jones-Reutemann, or Shumi-Anyonethatgotinhisway, or even Webber-Vettell.

Seconded, Senna-Prost was two great drivers at the peak of their powers battling over the world championship. Hamilson-Massa is two decent drivers performing well below expectations (and their team mates) battling ineptly over fifth place.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 31 Oct 2011, 20:33

Even Raul Boesel and Chico Serra put those 2 to shame! Beaten by some rejects, boys....

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 31 Oct 2011, 20:54

Barbazza wrote:Even Raul Boesel and Chico Serra put those 2 to shame! Beaten by some rejects, boys....

For the viewing pleasure of you all!

I heard that during the 1988 Spanish Grand Prix, Julian Bailey blocked one of Riccardo Patrese's flying laps in qualifying, and Patrese was so pissed off, that he deliberately rammed into Bailey's Tyrrell, he had to pay a fine for doing so.

I'd love to see Hamilton and Massa in a punch-up though.

Post by **mario** » 31 Oct 2011, 21:41

IdeFan wrote:
Ross Prawn wrote:I'm going to nominate the Hamilton - Massa feud for being the most girlie feud ever witnessed in the history of motor sport. Why this week before the Indian GP, Hamilton complained that he tried to give Massa a cuddle and Massa just shrugged him off. (Tears.) Most of the crashes have been merely inept, and the abuse has been timid. Lets face it, its not Senna-Prost, or Mansell-Piquet, or Jones-Reutemann, or Shumi-Anyonethatgotinhisway, or even Webber-Vettell.

Seconded, Senna-Prost was two great drivers at the peak of their powers battling over the world championship. Hamilson-Massa is two decent drivers performing well below expectations (and their team mates) battling ineptly over fifth place.

Is it even a feud? In a feud you would normally expect both sides to be attacking the other party both on and off the track, but generally most of the criticism, unsurprisingly, had been from Massa towards Hamilton, which is what you'd expect given recent events.

In the other situations you had a sense of antagonism between those two figures as part of a wider narrative between the two, mainly about establishing dominance within a team, or fighting back at perceived bias with the opposing driver acting as something of a proxy for that. It's not exactly as if both drivers are attacking each other through the press, for example - most of the criticism has been from Massa towards Hamilton, which is unsurprising in the circumstances - and to be honest it is simply a case of two drivers who are allowing other events off the track dictate their performance on track (considerable personal upheaval in the case of Hamilton, and continued rumours and questioning over Massa's position at Ferrari).

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 31 Oct 2011, 21:51

Hamilton said that they hadn't spoken in a 'long, long time' - could it go back to 2008?

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 31 Oct 2011, 22:03

shinji wrote:Hamilton said that they hadn't spoken in a 'long, long time' - could it go back to 2008?

Not particularly likely. There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely & Anthony Hamilton was full of praise for both Felipe & the Massa family generally at the time. It's just this season probably.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Nov 2011, 03:15

eagleash wrote:There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely

I think it was the Toyota crew. Massa wanted to avoid people going after Glock's people; there was the theory that Glock moved over to let Hamilton through, but his tyres were shot. That wasn't immediately obvious to the spectators, who might have sought retribution.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Nov 2011, 06:12

Captain Hammer wrote:
eagleash wrote:There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely

I think it was the Toyota crew. Massa wanted to avoid people going after Glock's people; there was the theory that Glock moved over to let Hamilton through, but his tyres were shot. That wasn't immediately obvious to the spectators, who might have sought retribution.

The Renault team also gave some spare shirts to the Toyota crew if my memory is correct. And his tyres weren't shot, they just reached the cliff for the conditions (Remember, he and teammate Trulli were the only two guys to stay out of slicks when the rain hit in the final few laps).

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 01 Nov 2011, 08:09

Captain Hammer wrote:
eagleash wrote:There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely

I think it was the Toyota crew. Massa wanted to avoid people going after Glock's people; there was the theory that Glock moved over to let Hamilton through, but his tyres were shot. That wasn't immediately obvious to the spectators, who might have sought retribution.

Unfortunately, it also wasn't subsequently clear to all the conspiracy theory boneheads who to this day still reckon that Glock deliberately let him through, despite there being no actual reason for him to have done that.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 01 Nov 2011, 08:26

fjackdaw wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
eagleash wrote:There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely

I think it was the Toyota crew. Massa wanted to avoid people going after Glock's people; there was the theory that Glock moved over to let Hamilton through, but his tyres were shot. That wasn't immediately obvious to the spectators, who might have sought retribution.

Unfortunately, it also wasn't subsequently clear to all the conspiracy theory boneheads who to this day still reckon that Glock deliberately let him through, despite there being no actual reason for him to have done that.

Could well be right Capt....I missed the last half hour & my memory of that race is a bit hazy. I didn't see the moment when HAM passed Glock till months later. Have to admit, that at first sight, without knowing all the facts it did look a bit iffy.........

Post by **mario** » 01 Nov 2011, 19:22

fjackdaw wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
eagleash wrote:There was that report that Massa obtained some Ferrari shirts for McLaren personnel in order that they could get away from the track safely

I think it was the Toyota crew. Massa wanted to avoid people going after Glock's people; there was the theory that Glock moved over to let Hamilton through, but his tyres were shot. That wasn't immediately obvious to the spectators, who might have sought retribution.

Unfortunately, it also wasn't subsequently clear to all the conspiracy theory boneheads who to this day still reckon that Glock deliberately let him through, despite there being no actual reason for him to have done that.

I believe that Renault also helped the Toyota team quite a lot too by handing out overalls and t-shirts to them (given that a number of mechanics and technical staff had gone from one outfit to the other, quite a few mechanics had friends within the other team), since there were a few hot headed fans who were gathering near the Toyota pits after the race and seemingly presenting enough of a threat for some to fear for the Toyota team.

As for the persistence of those wretched conspiracy theories, I guess that to a certain extent the wish is the father of the thought, as they say - I guess that some have concluded that the only way that Massa could have lost out was through some malicious act rather than because of random chance due to another team gambling on their strategy.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 01 Nov 2011, 21:26

1-Rubens Barichello: no matter how bad the car is, someone with Rubens' experience should be able to develop it at least 1 iota. If anything, Williams have gone backwards.
2-Lewis Hamilton/ Mark Webber/ Felipe Massa: for being outclassed by their teammates comfortably.
3-Renault management for sacking Heidfeld and replacing him with Bruno Senna, who has been very underwhelming.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Nov 2011, 23:13

How dare you say Bruno Senna is a bad driver! He's got a lot of talent! It's everyone in the team that keeps letting him down!

[/Peter]

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 02 Nov 2011, 11:32

Captain Hammer wrote:How dare you say Bruno Senna is a bad driver! He's got a lot of talent! It's everyone in the team that keeps letting him down!

[/Peter]

How old are you?

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 02 Nov 2011, 15:09

Enforcer wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:How dare you say Bruno Senna is a bad driver! He's got a lot of talent! It's everyone in the team that keeps letting him down!

[/Peter]

How old are you?

Leave him alone. My recent absence has left a definite hole of Trolling in the boards and he's just trying to fill it. He and ADx.

Just don't get him started on Ferrari

AS far as my RotY?

3rd: Williams F1
Oh how the mighty have fallen is the phrase that keeps popping to my mind. From the single most dominating team in the sport into a mediocre backmarker team is just sad... bears scary similarities to Lotus' fate.
2nd: Mercedes GP.
This might be debatable but god, they got all the money in the world, arguably best driver in the history, the best engine on the grid, one of the most brilliant strategical minds in the business as a team principal... Yet they haven't been able to even get regular podiums. Pathetic.
1st: Lewis Hamilton.
RotY in my mind is given in relation to expectations and quite frankly, Hamilton should deserve this. Crash-prone, unable to deliver, cracking godawful jokes, the whole nine yards. If I didn't know better, I would never guess he is a former champion. Just Pathetic

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 02 Nov 2011, 22:46

Old posts are so embarrassing

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 03 Nov 2011, 06:27

Captain Hammer wrote:How dare you say Bruno Senna is a bad driver! He's got a lot of talent! It's everyone in the team that keeps letting him down!

[/Peter]

Petrov is the best driver on the grid today! Who cares if he spent half of his first season crashing, scored 28 points to Kubica's 138 , and is only 2 points ahead of his teammate who has been out of the car since mid season, here's to the next world champion!

[/Captain Hammer]

Just saying, you started it.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 03 Nov 2011, 09:28

Eddie Jordan's shirt collection

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 03 Nov 2011, 11:32

DonTirri wrote:2nd: Mercedes GP.
This might be debatable but god, they got all the money in the world, arguably best driver in the history, the best engine on the grid, one of the most brilliant strategical minds in the business as a team principal... Yet they haven't been able to even get regular podiums. Pathetic.

Thats an interesting one. At first I thought "Wait, they improved over last year, how can they be reject?" But then there was the pre-season hype and how they were setting the best times. When compared to that then your arguement is very, very valid!

I am not yet decided on my vote/opinion/rambling for RotY. Theres that many! Right now LOOKS like a shortlist featuring:
Lewis Hamilton
Felipe Massa
Mark Webber
Williams
Bahrain GP
Hamilton-Massa handbags...
Virgin GP
Renault (Team management and fall in standards from the start)
3rd Qualifying sessions (when almost half of the 10 sit out)

Bear in mind this could change...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 03 Nov 2011, 15:11

eurobrun wrote:Eddie Jordan's shirt collection

Seconded

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 03 Nov 2011, 22:25

Collieafc wrote:
DonTirri wrote:2nd: Mercedes GP.
This might be debatable but god, they got all the money in the world, arguably best driver in the history, the best engine on the grid, one of the most brilliant strategical minds in the business as a team principal... Yet they haven't been able to even get regular podiums. Pathetic.

Thats an interesting one. At first I thought "Wait, they improved over last year, how can they be reject?" But then there was the pre-season hype and how they were setting the best times. When compared to that then your arguement is very, very valid!

I am not yet decided on my vote/opinion/rambling for RotY. Theres that many! Right now LOOKS like a shortlist featuring:
Lewis Hamilton
Felipe Massa
Mark Webber
Williams
Bahrain GP
Hamilton-Massa handbags...
Virgin GP
Renault (Team management and fall in standards from the start)
3rd Qualifying sessions (when almost half of the 10 sit out)

Bear in mind this could change...

There's probably a valid argument to nominate all the 'big' teams except Red Bull (Ferrari, Merc, McLaren, Renault).

Actually, you could probably come up with an argument for nominating 3/4s of the grid, both drivers and teams, to be honest.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 06 Nov 2011, 10:11

I'm changing my vote to Williams. 5 points. Nowhere near the other mid-table teams. Have to take the title again.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 06 Nov 2011, 10:23

To be fair, I could vote anyone/anything except Red Bull, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button and not sound like an idiot.

But I am going as follows.

3rd - Virgin - Last year they were beaten in the standings by HRT despite clearly being a lot quicker than them. They've made a step back if anything, as they're behind HRT in the standings again, and they're not even that much quicker than them. And I know that's not down to Timo Glock's driving. He deserves a hell of a lot better.

2nd - Lewis Hamilton - Driving like a 10-year-old for most of this season, he had his moments such as China and Germany. His race in Monaco and his collisions with Massa throughout the season have just made me cringe as well as laugh. Jenson Button is making him look very silly this season.

1st - WilliamsF1 - It's been painful to see them slide, when I first started watching in 2004, they were at the sharp end, and I knew how good they were before then, dominating the 90s. Sad to see a team in this state, especially as they've won more constructors titles than McLaren

ranig · Post by **ranig** » 07 Nov 2011, 12:04

As far as I see it :

3rd - Renault
High ambitions, good start of the season, and then a slow fall to the middle of the grid.

2nd - Lewis Hamilton
I expected him to outperform Jenson, yet he proves every week that Jenson is as quick as him and more reliable. He was involved in too many incidents this year, whereas he has the second best car in the field.

1st - Williams F1
You should not struggle this way when you have won several drivers and constructors championships. Sir Frank Williams, please close the door before you ashame yourself and your team too much. Ho wait... that's already the case, right ?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 07 Nov 2011, 15:58

ranig wrote:2nd - Lewis Hamilton
I expected him to outperform Jenson

I think everyone in the world expected him to outperform Jenson. I'm a Jenson Button fanboy (well I was, he's still my favourite driver), and I expected Lewis to beat him.

I've loved watching Jenson showing Lewis how to drive this season, and I hope it continues.