Grand Prix Rejects

To paraphrase a quote I use quite a lot to describe the Bianconeri...DonTirri Merda!

DOSBoot wrote:I'm still waiting for a good American to come back in F1. The last good one in my opinion was Eddie Cheever, since then we've had only two, one could have been good had he taken it more seriously, and the other failed miserably. I'm hopeing Alexander Rossi can break the duck.

Other nations that I can think of are Argentina, and the South African nations as well.

In comparison to Andretti son and Speed, Cheever fared better than those in F-1, but he was not what I would call a good F-1 driver.
You might want to wait seated for the next Argentinean driver, they are in far worse shape than Brazil. Nowadays, all their categories are part of the motor netherworld.

DonTirri wrote:I for one wasn't surprised one bit.
After all, Italian presence in F1 has been on life support since Alboreto (or Patrese if you count a "guy in a winning car yet contractually not allowed to win" as a presence). Trulli and Fisichella are the only noteworthy Italians in 20 years, and neither of them had what it took to be a champion. Both had their shots at good cars (ironically both at the same team, Renault) yet neither of them was able to deliver.

Italy has a sort of an inverse development to Germany. Both were very strong pre-war in both drivers and teams, and Italy continued to be strong for a good while, but finally petered out of the stratosphere, while Germany had basically nothing as the series began and it took them over 40 years to get a championship winning driver.

Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

I'll break your avatar's finger!

Harry Hill wrote:I like karsten, but I also like DonTirri's avatar. But which is better? There's only one way to find out...FIIIIIGHT!!!!!!

Sorry, just had to

Ah! Pedro de la Rosa started his F1 career in the 90's, so Schumacher isn't the only one from that decade. 90's ain't dead.. .yet.

What about Mirko Bortolotti? OWNED FIA F2 last year. Only 22 years of age. Plenty of time to groom him.

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

What a dick.

CoopsII wrote:

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

What a dick.

Dontirri, go away

eurobrun wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

What a dick.

Dontirri, go away

Now now, we all know DonTirri has pointed opinions, and they may not always be appropriate or tasteful, but he does have the right to express them...

golic_2004 wrote:What about Mirko Bortolotti? OWNED FIA F2 last year. Only 22 years of age. Plenty of time to groom him.

Forgot about Bortolotti. Problem is that he avoided F3 Euro Series which are way more competitive that the Italian one. And in F2 he wasn't facing much opposition, not to mention that F2 is not highly considered in the F1 ladder at the moment.

East Londoner wrote:

eurobrun wrote:

CoopsII wrote: What a dick.

Dontirri, go away

Now now, we all know DonTirri has pointed opinions, and they may not always be appropriate or tasteful, but he does have the right to express them...

Hey, that was relatively mild because for once I figured I'd NOT piss off half the board. maybe I shoulda explain that comment a bit. Since a lot of Rejects are Italians I kindasorta understand the sentiment but hey, top tier italians aren't needed.
Never did like the seemingly genetic arrogance of the Italians that tends to crop up in all sports. From Football to Rallying to Alpine Skiing to F1.

And hey, tell me one reasons WHY F1 needs italians? I mean, the fans in Italy are more likely to cheer a foreigner in a Ferrari than an Italian in any other car.

While I cannot deny that Fisichella and Trulli were disappointing, to use their relative failure (hey they still won a few races) to brand all Italian drivers as useless and unwelcome is ignorance and intolerance in the extreme.

Italy has one of the richest F1 histories (rivalled only by Britain) and the most passionate fans. F1 needs Ferrari, it needs the Italian Grand Prix, if it has those things it perhaps doesn't need an Italian driver, but it would certainly be a plus.

Besides, some of us are campaigning for a certain Italian driver to come back!

Returning to decades, the 2012 grid is split between:

2 1990s drivers,
13 2000s drivers, and
9 2010s drivers.

With only the two Force India guys as 2010s drivers in the front half of the grid.

I'm guessing our last 1980s driver was Jean Alesi in 2001?

IdeFan wrote:While I cannot deny that Fisichella and Trulli were disappointing, to use their relative failure (hey they still won a few races) to brand all Italian drivers as useless and unwelcome is ignorance and intolerance in the extreme.

Italy has one of the richest F1 histories (rivalled only by Britain) and the most passionate fans. F1 needs Ferrari, it needs the Italian Grand Prix, if it has those things it perhaps doesn't need an Italian driver, but it would certainly be a plus.

Besides, some of us are campaigning for a certain Italian driver to come back!

Thing is, for those who don't care about the less-succesfull drivers, Italians are the epitome of failure. The supposed "great racing country" hasn't produced a Championship contender since 1985 (I still won't count Patrese since he wasn't allowed to win), or a champion since 1953. Do we REALLY need a driver from a country that has produced more failures than successes? I mean, Britain has atleast maintained a steady presence in the top level since day one while Italy has been producing nothing but flash in the pan one-race/year wonders who fizzle off sooner than later. I'd really hate to bring this up, but a Country with no F1-heritage until late 70's I.E Finland has more World Champions than Italy.

And remember that EVERY non-Ferrari attempt at F1 has failed within a few years of its inception, if not the day it was conceived. Fact remains that Italy as far as statistics and facts are concerned, is literally "Ferrari and the rest" and to be honest, unless driving for a Ferrari, in the eyes of the general Italian public, he might aswell be a North Korean. Hell, Schuey was more cheered during the early 2000's than Fisico or Jarno, Berger was more cheered than Patrese during the early 90's etc.
And as far as F1 needing Italy? The Grand Prix yeah. But saying F1 needs Ferrari is just ridiculous and exactly the reason why Montezemolo pulls of things like the Formula Elaborate Bluff. Because he thinks Ferrari is larger than F1. Formula One would do JUST fine without Any italian Involvement. France used to be a BIG racing country, and F1 did well without a French driver for a while. Or without a French GP. Or without a French team (Latest Renault does not count, based in England and driven by Non-frenchies almost since Day 1). And Like I pointed out, F1 survived quite well for Decades without a real German Presence, considering that Germany was THE racing country Pre-war.

DonTirri wrote:for those who don't care about the less-succesfull drivers

This is a forum dedicated to celebrating less-successful drivers! Bashing a whole country just because their recent drivers havn't been very good is not an argument that is going to fly here.

If you don't think that a country that has produced legendary drivers like Luca Badoer, Giovanna Amati, Giovanni Lavaggi, Andrea Montermini and Alex Zanardi, or teams like Andrea Moda, Fondmetal and Coloni deserves a place in F1, then you are probably posting in the wrong forum.

IdeFan wrote:

DonTirri wrote:for those who don't care about the less-succesfull drivers

This is a forum dedicated to celebrating less-successful drivers! Bashing a whole country just because their recent drivers havn't been very good is not an argument that is going to fly here.

If you don't think that a country that has produced legendary drivers like Luca Badoer, Giovanna Amati, Giovanni Lavaggi, Andrea Montermini and Alex Zanardi, or teams like Andrea Moda, Fondmetal and Coloni deserves a place in F1, then you are probably posting in the wrong forum.

It's troll logic. Don't bother trying to fight it, it won't work.

DonTirri wrote:
And hey, tell me one reasons WHY F1 needs italians? I mean, the fans in Italy are more likely to cheer a foreigner in a Ferrari than an Italian in any other car.

Not true. And most people has been complaining for the lack of italian drivers in Ferrari for long. but nowaday Ferrari is more about selling its image around than italian pride. Soon they'll have a chinese strategist (insider's news), they already have a brazilian driver... they just miss someone from india and it's all set! >_> karti?

you gave mi inspiration to mess along with your phrase

TirriDon wrote:
And hey, tell me one reasons WHY F1 needs germans? I mean, the fans in Germany are more likely to cheer a German in a foreing car than a foreingner in a German car.

Or you might get this:

TirriDon wrote:
And hey, tell me one reasons WHY F1 needs other drivers than Vettel? I mean, fans of F1 are more likely to live longer if they don't have everybody else to hate and Vettel already wins everything anyway.

DonTirri wrote:

IdeFan wrote:While I cannot deny that Fisichella and Trulli were disappointing, to use their relative failure (hey they still won a few races) to brand all Italian drivers as useless and unwelcome is ignorance and intolerance in the extreme.

Italy has one of the richest F1 histories (rivalled only by Britain) and the most passionate fans. F1 needs Ferrari, it needs the Italian Grand Prix, if it has those things it perhaps doesn't need an Italian driver, but it would certainly be a plus.

Besides, some of us are campaigning for a certain Italian driver to come back!

Thing is, for those who don't care about the less-succesfull drivers, Italians are the epitome of failure. The supposed "great racing country" hasn't produced a Championship contender since 1985 (I still won't count Patrese since he wasn't allowed to win), or a champion since 1953. Do we REALLY need a driver from a country that has produced more failures than successes? I mean, Britain has atleast maintained a steady presence in the top level since day one while Italy has been producing nothing but flash in the pan one-race/year wonders who fizzle off sooner than later. I'd really hate to bring this up, but a Country with no F1-heritage until late 70's I.E Finland has more World Champions than Italy.

And remember that EVERY non-Ferrari attempt at F1 has failed within a few years of its inception, if not the day it was conceived. Fact remains that Italy as far as statistics and facts are concerned, is literally "Ferrari and the rest" and to be honest, unless driving for a Ferrari, in the eyes of the general Italian public, he might aswell be a North Korean. Hell, Schuey was more cheered during the early 2000's than Fisico or Jarno, Berger was more cheered than Patrese during the early 90's etc.
And as far as F1 needing Italy? The Grand Prix yeah. But saying F1 needs Ferrari is just ridiculous and exactly the reason why Montezemolo pulls of things like the Formula Elaborate Bluff. Because he thinks Ferrari is larger than F1. Formula One would do JUST fine without Any italian Involvement. France used to be a BIG racing country, and F1 did well without a French driver for a while. Or without a French GP. Or without a French team (Latest Renault does not count, based in England and driven by Non-frenchies almost since Day 1). And Like I pointed out, F1 survived quite well for Decades without a real German Presence, considering that Germany was THE racing country Pre-war.

Most of the organisations which have entered Formula 1 over the years have collapsed regardless of nationality - there have been multiple German marques that collapsed within a handful of years with paltry success over the years, including several manufacturer backed outfits. Similarly, there have been countless attempts by British, French and American teams - including a number of outfits which had considerable experience in motor sport - which have all faded away into obscurity or proved to be utter disasters.
Hell, even now it should be borne in mind that a quarter of the grid are over two years old, and some of them still have major question marks over their long term survival, whilst some of the more established teams are in questionable financial shape (Williams are perhaps the highest profile, though Sauber is rumoured to have fallen short in its fund raising this year too). To say, therefore, that Italian outfits are disproportionately inclined to collapse is somewhat questionable to my mind.

As for the relationship between Formula 1 and Ferrari, whilst in the longer term the sport could potentially recover from the withdrawal of Ferrari, in the short term at least it would potentially heavily damage the sport. Given the creeping expansion of Renault in recent years - to the point where they could persuade the FIA to override its own regulations on engine supplies - Ferrari's withdrawal could simply shift the balance, and abuse, of power from them to Renault.
Besides, it is hardly as if Ferrari have been the only ones who have thrown around threats to quit in the past - Toyota sometimes threw around threats to quit before eventually withdrawing to focus on Le Mans instead, BMW did the same when the FIA refused to allow thermal energy recovery systems and Renault made some unsubtle hints about withdrawing during the negotiations over the new generation of turbo engines that are due soon.

DOSBoot wrote:

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

Looks like another troll quote for our friend DonTirri.

Is it a bad thing if I laughed at his comment just for how idiotic it was?

Cynon wrote:

DOSBoot wrote:

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

Looks like another troll quote for our friend DonTirri.

Is it a bad thing if I laughed at his comment just for how idiotic it was?

Maybe. But how else may I state the seemly obvious?

So what is a troll? Someone who disagrees with the general opinion? Had I posted this on the "unpopular F1 opinions" it might've flown?
Sorry, but if you really expect me to not voice my opinion, you're kinda missing the point of opinions. After all, I didn't say anything offensive or obscene so why the nametag?

DonTirri wrote:So what is a troll? Someone who disagrees with the general opinion? Had I posted this on the "unpopular F1 opinions" it might've flown?
Sorry, but if you really expect me to not voice my opinion, you're kinda missing the point of opinions. After all, I didn't say anything offensive or obscene so why the nametag?

Well, yes, Say something unpopular and critical and prepare to face a barrage of criticism yourself. That's how the world works....

kostas22 wrote:

DonTirri wrote:So what is a troll? Someone who disagrees with the general opinion? Had I posted this on the "unpopular F1 opinions" it might've flown?
Sorry, but if you really expect me to not voice my opinion, you're kinda missing the point of opinions. After all, I didn't say anything offensive or obscene so why the nametag?

Well, yes, Say something unpopular and critical and prepare to face a barrage of criticism yourself. That's how the world works....

I don't mind being criticised. I mind being labeled a troll for it. A troll does it JUST to stir the pot. I am not a troll.

DonTirri wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

DonTirri wrote:So what is a troll? Someone who disagrees with the general opinion? Had I posted this on the "unpopular F1 opinions" it might've flown?
Sorry, but if you really expect me to not voice my opinion, you're kinda missing the point of opinions. After all, I didn't say anything offensive or obscene so why the nametag?

Well, yes, Say something unpopular and critical and prepare to face a barrage of criticism yourself. That's how the world works....

I don't mind being criticised. I mind being labeled a troll for it. A troll does it JUST to stir the pot. I am not a troll.

I think that the fairest thing to say would be that although you may not have intended to cause the sort of offence that was caused by your post, the tone and style with which you wrote said post was likely to result in an adverse reaction in some quarters. Maybe the best thing would be to agree that it is best to draw a line under said comments about trolling and to let things cool off a little (personally I feel that the content of your comments were sentiments that I have heard elsewhere, particularly with regards the dominance of Ferrari within the Italian F1 sphere, albeit written in a more tactful and restrained manner).

Seems strange to announce this so soon before the start of the season, as we've known for a long time that Petrov had lost his Renault/Lotus seat. If they didn't want to keep Trulli they should have had the decency to tell him earlier, rather than raise his hopes only to dash tem at the 11th hour. Truth is though, that you can't argue with this decision on the evidence of lat year, and indeed the year before that. Trulli should have retired after 2009 when Toyota pulled out, rather than going through these painful last 2 years.

DonTirri wrote:I don't mind being criticised. I mind being labeled a troll for it. A troll does it JUST to stir the pot. I am not a troll.

Tough. Assuming you read the replies, you must know what sort of response you're going to get by now. You may not agree with the low opinion many people have of you but thats just the way it is. Stop being a baby.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97610

I really wanted to see jarno in ferrari. Sad

CoopsII wrote:

DonTirri wrote:I don't mind being criticised. I mind being labeled a troll for it. A troll does it JUST to stir the pot. I am not a troll.

Tough. Assuming you read the replies, you must know what sort of response you're going to get by now. You may not agree with the low opinion many people have of you but thats just the way it is. Stop being a baby.

Cool it, guys. Everyone here has the right to express their opinion in whatever way they see fit. Sometimes they cross the line (I'm not saying DonTirri necessarily did so in this case) but we can sort it out without resorting to slanging matches like this. I didn't like the way Don was jumped upon by so many people, I thought it was very un-F1rejects-ish.

That said, Don, it might pay to be a little bit more tactful in the way you express those 'pointed opinions'.

Now, let's all be friends. And bemoan the fact that Jarno never went to Ferrari. By the way, when do people reckon he was offered the drive? 2005, to replace Barrichello?

Warren Hughes wrote:Now, let's all be friends. And bemoan the fact that Jarno never went to Ferrari. By the way, when do people reckon he was offered the drive? 2005, to replace Barrichello?

Don't see how it could have been anything but that. Why would they have offered a drive to him before Raikkonen?

2005 definitely fits that description, I can see why at the time Ferrari might have preferred Trulli over Massa, especially as it was only at the very end of season that Ralf seemed to catch up with him. And as Toyota were competitive with Ferrari that year - indeed they would have been ahead of Ferrari without the Indy debacle - maybe he thought he was genuinely better off staying with Toyota so I can see why he'd want to stay put (and not want to go into a Barrichello-like subservient role either).

To be honest, I believe him when he says the reason he didn't leave was to honour his contract with Toyota. I mean, no. 2 driver or not, surely the opportunity for an Italian driver to go to Ferrari would be almost irresistible. Look how quick Fisichella was to leave Force India in 2009, even after almost winning at Spa. Thinking about it, Jarno's loyalty to Toyota is admirable, and unusual in this day and age.

And yet, in hindsight, it may have cost him his only shot at glory. I'd also imagine that Raikkonen would have still be under contract at McLaren for 2006 which meant their No.1 choice would've been unavailable. Not that contracts ever stopped anybody in F1.

fjackdaw wrote:I'm guessing our last 1980s driver was Jean Alesi in 2001?

Yeah.

Dj_bereta wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97610

I really wanted to see jarno in ferrari. Sad

If Todt was around, I think it was in the end of 2005, he would have been Barrichello's replacement.

I do agree that the only chance was 2005. In 2004 he still drove for Renault and in 2006 Ferrari already had Kimi Räikkönen lined-up to replace Schumacher. Todt left Ferrari in 2009 and until then Ferrari did not made any changes except courting Alonso. So 2005 is very much likely.

Now Riccardo Patrese has waded into the debate with his two Euro centsworth...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97704

Patrese looks a lot like Jackie Stewart in that picture.

East Londoner wrote:Now Riccardo Patrese has waded into the debate with his two Euro centsworth...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97704

I see that he failed to come forward with names. It is a bit too easy to say that Ferrari should give the seat to a young Italian driver but the more important question, which is not addressed, is to whom? In this forum we already came forward with some names, but these guys have been inconsistent at best. And when faced with stiff opposition and pressure tended to disappoint. Let's wait a bit more, Patrese...