Grand Prix Rejects

Here's an interesting piece of something - some website pondering that burning age-old question in motorsports: who are the top-10 Asian drivers of all time?
Funnily enough, their list is similar to the "F1 Rejects" list...

Link: http://www.formula1fancast.com/?attachment_id=12866

PS: The Sushi Chef's Son From Amagasaki comes in at number 4.

Snoozey2 wrote:Here's an interesting piece of something - some website pondering that burning age-old question in motorsports: who are the top-10 Asian drivers of all time?
Funnily enough, their list is similar to the "F1 Rejects" list...

Link: http://www.formula1fancast.com/?attachment_id=12866

PS: The Sushi Chef's Son From Amagasaki comes in at number 4.

Taki Inoue is 9th! How shite must everyone not on that list be?

PS. How can they seriously rate Cucumber/Raj Koothrappali/Narain Karthikeyan ahead of Ukyo Katayama? Whatever stuff they're on, I really want to try it.

More than an odd list :d

First, as to why Aguri and Prince Bira are higher than Koba I don't really get, nor Katayama's placement either.

then, Chandhok and Takagi come to mind without even any deeper mind research, then didn't the rumour go at least one of the Japanese 70's drivers (not talking about Hasemi) was a competent driver in even European standards...Yamamoto wasn't any more shite than Narain either, Kazuki belongs in too.

Shows a lack of research that.

Personally I would have had Keiichi Tsuchiya in there somewhere. He had a lot of talent, he was just bored by cars staying rigidly to the racing line

giraurd wrote:More than an odd list :d

First, as to why Aguri and Prince Bira are higher than Koba I don't really get, nor Katayama's placement either.

then, Chandhok and Takagi come to mind without even any deeper mind research, then didn't the rumour go at least one of the Japanese 70's drivers (not talking about Hasemi) was a competent driver in even European standards...Yamamoto wasn't any more shite than Narain either, Kazuki belongs in too.

Shows a lack of research that.

Prince Bira I can understand, he actually won races. Not any that counted for the World Championship, but still. Kobayashi deserves to be at least 2nd though, IMO.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20086433

Conveniently lines up with Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi for next year.

Copersucar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20086433

Conveniently lines up with Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi for next year.

Unless Gutierrez turns out to be absolutely useless in an F1 car, in which case all bets are off.

Wizzie wrote:

Copersucar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20086433

Conveniently lines up with Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi for next year.

Unless Gutierrez turns out to be absolutely useless in an F1 car, in which case all bets are off.

Well, he was about 1.4s off Kobayashi's times in this practise session, although considering that was the first time he has sat in the car this season it is hard to tell just how good that is by comparison. It does seem, though, that the odds of Kobayashi staying on are reducing given that this seems to have been set up to evaluate Gutierrez (as others have commented, Perez himself reported via Twitter that he was fine this morning).

mario wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

Copersucar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20086433

Conveniently lines up with Gutierrez replacing Kobayashi for next year.

Unless Gutierrez turns out to be absolutely useless in an F1 car, in which case all bets are off.

Well, he was about 1.4s off Kobayashi's times in this practise session, although considering that was the first time he has sat in the car this season it is hard to tell just how good that is by comparison. It does seem, though, that the odds of Kobayashi staying on are reducing given that this seems to have been set up to evaluate Gutierrez (as others have commented, Perez himself reported via Twitter that he was fine this morning).

All these rumors I think are making Kobash try harder. He did at Suzuka and got a podium, and did it again at Korea, but in Korea he tried too hard and wrecked Button. It worked for Liuzzi on a few occasions IIRC, but it remains to be seen if Sauber is going to let Kobash prove himself more or if they've already given up on him.

We shall see if Sauber running Gutierrez is their way of really lighting a fire under Kobayashi and see if they can't get him to pull a top-5 or something out before they decide if he's worth keeping.

Well, last time Kobayashi was driving for his job, he produced two excellent races (2009), so maybe he should always have a contract that's running out.

Three races left.

Well, at least one Japanese website believes Kimi driving Lotus for a 2nd season is reason for faint optimism, since the team didn't mention the vowel-less wonder in the same sentence:
Link: http://f1-gate.com/kamui/f1_17140.html

Hey, buddy! Can you spare a billion?
Yen, that is. Or U$14 million. The cost of a seat in F1.
Apparently, it's a whole lot easier to chant his name from the stands than to show him da money. So much so that "Butch Kamui" is joking about bank heists. Strictly off the record, of course:
Link: http://www.f1-stinger.com/f1-news/voice/2012/10/25/042172.html

Phoenix wrote:...Autosport or it didn't happen.

It has now.

Hmm... 13th on the grid at Gangnam, 17th at the Buddhoir, and now 16th at Abbadabba-doo.

Looks like a man who may be distracted about the more important things in life. Like heading back to Japan immediately after the race and bringing out his begging bowl.
I heard rumours Heikki Kovaleinen may be joining Kamui on the sidewalk?

Two races left.
The horse is saddled. Time to say goodbye to Miss Betsy-chan down at the saloon - Daddy's sushi restaurant beckons.

6th place at Yas Marina to match the one from three years ago. No matter.
Sauber signing Hulkenberg confirms their immediate intent: it makes no difference what Cowboy does now. Overhauling Mercedes for 5th, scoring another podium finish... no matter.
What does matter now is taking the first flight back to Tokyo and start practicing his grovelling in front of the suits.

Although the fat lady is clearing her throat, she has not started singing yet. I believe that we will see Kamui for at least one more season in F1.

SuperAguri wrote:Although the fat lady is clearing her throat, she has not started singing yet. I believe that we will see Kamui for at least one more season in F1.

Oh, looks like we have got another case of the Direct Driver's Drive Delusion (DDDD), one of the most severe F1 sicknesses next to F1 Deprivation. Don't worry, you will get over it. I can tell from experience.

SuperAguri wrote:Although the fat lady is clearing her throat, she has not started singing yet. I believe that we will see Kamui for at least one more season in F1.

I wish i could share in your optimism. however, i find myself wondering: who do i cheer for when Cowboy's gone? Who can fill the void left by the Soopa Man from the land that gave us Soopa Aguri? Who will be the next F1 driving beast from the Far East?

Ma Qing-Hua, your time has come?



With what little Chinese i know, i can safely say that his surname "Ma" means "horse". Horse, as in one of the 12 in the Chinese zodiac. Horse, as in horsepower... ye gods, the stars are aligning!
If the rumours are to be believed, come 2013 HRT will be driven by an animal, a flower, and a vegetable.



But say what you will about the man's car, credentials, or cashflow... From this angle, THAT is one cool-looking helmet.

SuperAguri wrote:Although the fat lady is clearing her throat, she has not started singing yet. I believe that we will see Kamui for at least one more season in F1.

While i'm not optimistic, i'll be indulgent this one post and agree with you: say Cowboy gets one more season. Where would he go?

Teams "locked" for 2013: RBR, FER, MCL, MER, TOR. i am inclined to add SAU to this list.
The bottom 3: MAR, CAT, HRT. i assume that with the exception of De La Rosa and Glock, all seats are up for grabs for a reasonable price.
WIL: Some have argued that the 2nd seat is available, but i'm under the impression they've already made up their minds.
LOT: For some reason, a few Japanese news sites are still convinced the 2nd seat is unoccupied.

Which brings me to the "really wild card" in the equation: Force India.
Last i checked, a straight-up switch to Hulkenberg's former seat seems to be the most popular rumour in Japan, but the question i'm more concerned with is: is the team even good to go for 2013?

The counselors have advised: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104093

Dear oh dear... now ah got me no Cowboy and no Horse. What-evah shall ah do? How-evah shall ah ride to Texas on tahm?

A handful of Japanese sites are running with this one: Kamui Kobayashi as a possible candidate for 2013 Pirelli test driver.

Links:
http://f1-gate.com/pirelli/f1_17278.html
http://www.topnews.jp/2012/11/12/news/f ... 76749.html
http://as-web.jp/news/info.php?c_id=1&no=44864

Well, I guess this is it. Last race.
Last start, last lap, last corner.... or last crash, whichever comes first.

Interlagos 2012 should be Kamui Kobayashi's 60th F1 GP start. The cold, cold stats tell this story:
59 race starts.
15 retirements.
1 disqualification.
3 6th-place finishes.
2 5th-place finishes.
1 4th-place finish.
1 podium finish (3rd at Suzuka 2012).

I would argue that his 2 most memorable moments were the ones where he didn't even make the top-6:
Valencia 2010, where he overtook Alonso (pre-"faster than Massa" period) and Buemi on the final lap; and
Suzuka 2010, where he overtook goodness knows how many - I lost count.
Kobayashi finished 7th both races, which in the old days would still not be good enough to even merit a single, solitary point in the driver standings.

I'm working on a little something - a farewell tribute, if you will - for my final post after Brazil. Something good to remember Cowboy by as he rides into the sunset.

Snoozey2 wrote:Well, I guess this is it. Last race.
Last start, last lap, last corner.... or last crash, whichever comes first.

Interlagos 2012 should be Kamui Kobayashi's 60th F1 GP start. The cold, cold stats tell this story:
59 race starts.
15 retirements.
1 disqualification.
3 6th-place finishes.
2 5th-place finishes.
1 4th-place finish.
1 podium finish (3rd at Suzuka 2012).

I would argue that his 2 most memorable moments were the ones where he didn't even make the top-6:
Valencia 2010, where he overtook Alonso (pre-"faster than Massa" period) and Buemi on the final lap; and
Suzuka 2010, where he overtook goodness knows how many - I lost count.
Kobayashi finished 7th both races, which in the old days would still not be good enough to even merit a single, solitary point in the driver standings.

I'm working on a little something - a farewell tribute, if you will - for my final post after Brazil. Something good to remember Cowboy by as he rides into the sunset.

Also, he would've finished Valencia 2010 on podium if it wasn't for the stupid "forced tyre change" rule. Then again, it was more thanks to Bridgestones extremely durable tires, and if others hadn't been forced to change their tyres as well, who knows...

You know the end is nigh when all you can get is moral support from the original trollface:



Link: http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=spo_30&k=2012111900583

This is nothing new under the sun. But KK's engrish is horrible! He can hardly make himself understood, but he also
can not interpret what others are saying:
http://youtu.be/zdavEr3YC3A @ 3:49

Q "What are your thoughts on that, why do you think you are struggling?"
and he answers:
"For tomorrow?"

Perez says Gutierrez will replace him at Sauber.

That's it for Kamui. Which I think it is a crying shame because Hulk-Kobayashi intra-team rivalry would have been interesting. I don't rate Gutierrez much but I think he is no Perez. He might be pay-driver in the true sense of the word.

DanielPT wrote:Perez says Gutierrez will replace him at Sauber.

That's it for Kamui. Which I think it is a crying shame because Hulk-Kobayashi intra-team rivalry would have been interesting. I don't rate Gutierrez much but I think he is no Perez. He might be pay-driver in the true sense of the word.

Just for the record: Perez's long tongue makes him second Alguersuari.

It's a shame and Sauber will regret this decision.

Force India would be stupid not to take Kobayashi. He is the best driver they can have at the moment. Sutil has been away for one year, and was never better than average before. Buemi and Alguersuari also achieved nothing special in 2011. Barrichello is not really an alternative. For the young drivers, there are Bianchi and Razia as possibilities, but I doubt that any of them could be better than Kobayashi next year.

Another sign the end is nigh: Kamui kicks off an online fundraising campaign.
Or a sign of hope... whatever works.



If you wish to contribute to his "KickStarter", please visit KAMUI SUPPORT for more details. Thank you.

Snoozey2, You are annoying me. You don't want to discuss Kamui's prospects of getting a new seat for 2013. You only want to bash him. I must admit that he is not the best driver around in Formula one, but at least he scored a podium this year, and is definitely good enough for a midfield seat.

Maybe he can become a Super GT driver next year.

darkapprentice77 wrote:Maybe he can become a Super GT driver next year.

Or a Pirelli test driver?

pi314159 wrote:Force India would be stupid not to take Kobayashi. He is the best driver they can have at the moment. Sutil has been away for one year, and was never better than average before. Buemi and Alguersuari also achieved nothing special in 2011. Barrichello is not really an alternative. For the young drivers, there are Bianchi and Razia as possibilities, but I doubt that any of them could be better than Kobayashi next year.

Check this out: http://www.formula1fancast.com/2012/09/ ... to-in-2013

IMO what FI needs is Paffett or Flippi, not Kamui. Simple, huh?

TFTW: Unlikely IMO.

pi314159 wrote:Snoozey2, You are annoying me. You don't want to discuss Kamui's prospects of getting a new seat for 2013. You only want to bash him...

I already have discussed his prospects: see post above.
Not bashing... merely being realistic of his chances.

Since we're on the subject of prospects, what do you think his chances are?

solarcold wrote:

DanielPT wrote:Perez says Gutierrez will replace him at Sauber.

That's it for Kamui. Which I think it is a crying shame because Hulk-Kobayashi intra-team rivalry would have been interesting. I don't rate Gutierrez much but I think he is no Perez. He might be pay-driver in the true sense of the word.

Just for the record: Perez's long tongue makes him second Alguersuari.

Although it has been pretty much an open secret within the paddock for some time, it is still a bit clumsy of Perez to reveal it like that.

Still, I guess that Kobayashi's best hope now for a seat would be a lateral move to Force India, although there seems to be a fair amount of competition for Hulkenberg's old seat. That said, driving for Force India could be a bit of a poisoned chalice - we know that the team is not necessarily financially stable given Mallya's problems, but on the other hand Mallya is promising to plough another £50 million into the team next year to upgrade their facilities.
The other big problem for Kobayashi is that Mallya seems to be looking elsewhere for potential replacements - he has explicitly stated that he is considering bringing Sutil back into the team, which does kind of make sense from the perspective of the team (Sutil was, if nothing else, generally a pretty steady points scorer and competent driver). http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 14089.html

Snoozey2 wrote:

pi314159 wrote:Snoozey2, You are annoying me. You don't want to discuss Kamui's prospects of getting a new seat for 2013. You only want to bash him...

I already have discussed his prospects: see post above.
Not bashing... merely being realistic of his chances.

Since we're on the subject of prospects, what do you think his chances are?

Realistically, I would say that Kobayashi's chances are low - with Perez's remarks, we know that the second seat at Sauber is accounted for (in more than one sense of the word...), and there are few other seats available on the grid right now.

Technically, Grosjean's contract expires at the end of this year and his seat is in principle up for grabs, but I believe that he will stay on there partially down to his links with Boullier, partially because I think that his performance has been solid enough and partially because of sponsorship (I believe that he has some connections with Total).
Asides from Hulkenberg's previously mentioned seat, Williams technically haven't announced their drivers for 2013 either, although Maldonado's sponsorship and upturn in performance in recent races should secure his seat for at least one more year. The other seat, meanwhile, seems to effectively already have Bottas's name on it - although Bruno Senna may yet have a say there if he can pony up enough cash.

Outside of the midfield, the only other available seats are at Caterham - where neither driver has had his seat confirmed - and one remaining seat at Marussia (I am leaving HRT out for now given the sad expectation that they will close this year). Now, Marussia are already heavily in debt and are likely to need a pay driver for next year, with the expectation that either Pic or Chilton will get the seat - with Glock ensconced as the veteran driver there, I think it'll be hard for Kobayashi to get a seat there on merit or with his wallet.
Over at Caterham, meanwhile, the loss of 10th in the WCC will have major ramifications for their budget - they will be losing tens of millions of dollars in TV revenue from FOM - and there are rumours that they are possibly looking for pay drivers for both seats. Again, the need for cash will probably trump talent, especially since a team like Caterham would probably gain more from having more cash (and therefore resources) at their disposal than could be gained from a more experienced driver.

Overall, therefore, I am hard pressed to see where Kobayashi will fit in next season - he doesn't have the sponsors to smooth his path into other teams, and there is a glut of experienced drivers on the market that dents his chances of standing out on talent alone.

sad sad times :'(

I'm going to have an official day of mourning if Kobayashi doesn't get a seat for next year.

It's really sad to see Kamui out of F1 (unless he gets the Force India seat). Unfortunately, it seems that F1 is like everything else: the only thing that counts is money.

Good luck to Hülkenberg and Gutierrez anyway. My respect for Sauber, on the other hand, is gone.

Sauber has a similar problem like Williams. As a privateer team, they are dependant of Sponsors, and at the moment, the only way to attract major Sponsors for midfield teams is to take the drivers supported by them. And Sauber already have Hülkenberg who doesn't bring much Sponsor money with him. That's sad for Kobayashi, woh definitely deserves a Formula one seat, but you can hardly blame Sauber for that situation. And let's see how Guiterrez turns out. Perez was also called a pay driver at the beginning of 2011, and now he ends up driving for McLaren.

Meatwad wrote:Good luck to Hülkenberg and Gutierrez anyway. My respect for Sauber, on the other hand, is gone.

I was always a fan of Sauber and I think I will still like them if nothing for more because of Peter Sauber and Hulkenberg, who I rate rather highly. Will they still be one of my favourites? I have to wait and see them next year without Kobayashi and my feelings about it.