Grand Prix Rejects

Here's Mercedes' engine doing a lap at Monza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpkJXJ7 ... e=youtu.be

I know, it's not Renault, but I didn't want to open a new topic.

I opened the topic and named it 2014 turbo engines. But since Renault was the only one unveiled at the time, i noted it in the subject. It in no way means only the Renault engines are topical.

The engine itself... sorry to be negative but it sounds like a sickly weed whacker.

Is it just me or is that just a simulation?

CoopsII wrote:Is it just me or is that just a simulation?

It is a simulation
Is it me or did that sound cattaclysmically underwhelming

roblomas52 wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Is it just me or is that just a simulation?

It is a simulation
Is it me or did that sound cattaclysmically underwhelming

Then how can we be sure thats how it will truly sound? Also, for many of us we'll only hear the cars on a TV which changes the sounds hugely. So is that sounds supposed to be the real sound or the TV sound?

I am also underwhelmed though.

CoopsII wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Is it just me or is that just a simulation?

It is a simulation
Is it me or did that sound cattaclysmically underwhelming

Then how can we be sure thats how it will truly sound? Also, for many of us we'll only hear the cars on a TV which changes the sounds hugely. So is that sounds supposed to be the real sound or the TV sound?

I am also underwhelmed though.

Every tv has a different sound quality like you said so we may never know unless we hijack a young drivers test

Sublime_FA11C wrote:I opened the topic and named it 2014 turbo engines. But since Renault was the only one unveiled at the time, i noted it in the subject. It in no way means only the Renault engines are topical.

The engine itself... sorry to be negative but it sounds like a sickly weed whacker.

I strongly suspect that, like the audio clip of the Renault engine, that Mercedes have intentionally distorted the engine note to make it more difficult for their rivals to use audio systems to work out the power of the engines. Given the rumours kicking around that suggest they have a fairly strong engine for 2014, I doubt that Mercedes would be keen to show their hand just yet...

They still sound better than the Formula E cars!!!

madcat wrote:They still sound better than the Formula E cars!!!

I saw the turbodiesel Seats racing in BTCC, and the sound of them were so underwhelming compared to the normally aspirated petrols around them. I gather the turbodiesels at Le Man are no different. And I imagine the Formula E cars will be quieter by a similar amount. Those will be unwhelming to the nth degree.

Perfect for tracks with noise restrictions then.

madcat wrote:They still sound better than the Formula E cars!!!

Anything would sound better than those...

dr-baker wrote:

madcat wrote:They still sound better than the Formula E cars!!!

I saw the turbodiesel Seats racing in BTCC, and the sound of them were so underwhelming compared to the normally aspirated petrols around them. I gather the turbodiesels at Le Man are no different. And I imagine the Formula E cars will be quieter by a similar amount. Those will be unwhelming to the nth degree.

Perfect for tracks with noise restrictions then.

I believe that the organisers of Formula E are aiming to exploit that particular aspect quite heavily - being relatively quiet, they are able to race in urban environments and venues where noise restrictions would otherwise limit or outright eliminate the chances of holding a race (e.g. Brands Hatch).

Probably did. Am I the only one who thinks next year's engines might sound good?

The first F1 race I ever went to had (mostly) turbo cars in it, and well they really did sound cool at the time (well to a 5 year old they all sounded cool! Dad made me wear headphones), so I cant really see it as a bad thing.

I drive an old turbo car to work everyday and you can very easily hear the damn thing work ....hopefully the onboards at Monaco will have all the noises and quirks since they are quite musical, the wishel-swizel of the spool up, the chatter of the wastegate (which we wont have with the new engines), the depression sag of the overboost valve (ditto) and the pigeon-getting-sucked-into-the-turbo noise of the inlet reversion on the lift off....tho they will probably use a blowoff valve, which will kinda suck....

I think one major advantage with the new engines is that the rule makers can completely change the dynamics of the sport cheaply by just changing a few parameters with fuel flow and the like...hell we could have more fuel flow for Monza if the race there is too slow? And it can be done cheaply.

Boomstick wrote:I think one major advantage with the new engines is that the rule makers can completely change the dynamics of the sport cheaply by just changing a few parameters with fuel flow and the like...hell we could have more fuel flow for Monza if the race there is too slow? And it can be done cheaply.

>Implying they would.

Not a chance. Not for one race. Not when the size of the fuel tank is as crucial as it is in F1.

F1000X wrote:

Boomstick wrote:I think one major advantage with the new engines is that the rule makers can completely change the dynamics of the sport cheaply by just changing a few parameters with fuel flow and the like...hell we could have more fuel flow for Monza if the race there is too slow? And it can be done cheaply.

>Implying they would.

Not a chance. Not for one race. Not when the size of the fuel tank is as crucial as it is in F1.

Firstly, the fuel tank size has also been fixed under the new formula (100kg of fuel is the maximum permitted amount, I believe), so increasing the fuel flow without adjusting the fuel tank size accordingly would be of questionable benefit.

Secondly, Monza is actually one of the races with lower fuel consumption than usual, counter-intuitive though it may seem - because the driver does not have to accelerate and brake as much around the track and the engines spend most of the lap in the optimal power band, the fuel consumption is actually not as high as you would expect.
Fuel consumption for Monza is put at about 2.6kg/lap at the moment, but with the race lasting just 53 laps, the cars would get through about 138kg of fuel for a race (in reality, short fuelling means they probably run closer to 130kg) - Silverstone is similar too (2.7kg/lap for 52 laps is just over 140kg). It's venues like the modern Hockenheimring or Singapore, and especially the latter, that are actually worse for fuel consumption over a full race distance than Monza (about 150-155kg at the moment), and those are the venues where you are more likely to see slower running to save fuel.

mario wrote:I strongly suspect that, like the audio clip of the Renault engine, that Mercedes have intentionally distorted the engine note to make it more difficult for their rivals to use audio systems to work out the power of the engines. Given the rumours kicking around that suggest they have a fairly strong engine for 2014, I doubt that Mercedes would be keen to show their hand just yet...

In that case, should anyone choose to start a Most Pointless F1 Thing thread, Id like to nominate that.

CoopsII wrote:

mario wrote:I strongly suspect that, like the audio clip of the Renault engine, that Mercedes have intentionally distorted the engine note to make it more difficult for their rivals to use audio systems to work out the power of the engines. Given the rumours kicking around that suggest they have a fairly strong engine for 2014, I doubt that Mercedes would be keen to show their hand just yet...

In that case, should anyone choose to start a Most Pointless F1 Thing thread, Id like to nominate that.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6369
There you go

F1000X wrote:

Boomstick wrote:I think one major advantage with the new engines is that the rule makers can completely change the dynamics of the sport cheaply by just changing a few parameters with fuel flow and the like...hell we could have more fuel flow for Monza if the race there is too slow? And it can be done cheaply.

>Implying they would.

Not a chance. Not for one race. Not when the size of the fuel tank is as crucial as it is in F1.

I have to say this will probably be true as well.

Personally I woul like to see this in f1 next year
http://thekneeslider.com/callaway-cyclo ... inline-4s/

dr-baker wrote:I saw the turbodiesel Seats racing in BTCC, and the sound of them were so underwhelming compared to the normally aspirated petrols around them. I gather the turbodiesels at Le Man are no different.

The Audi diesels sound amazing, especially with the energy recovery systems, properly futuristic, whooshing, whining noises that are unlike anything I'd ever heard before.

I think people get too hung up over the noise of an engine. Yes some sound better than others, but at the end of the day whatever it sounds like you know it's going to be ragged to within an inch of its life, and whatever noise it will make, it will sound impressive. It's not going to sound like your clapped out Astra doing 80 with the windows rattling in the outside lane!

AndreaModa wrote:

dr-baker wrote:I saw the turbodiesel Seats racing in BTCC, and the sound of them were so underwhelming compared to the normally aspirated petrols around them. I gather the turbodiesels at Le Man are no different.

The Audi diesels sound amazing, especially with the energy recovery systems, properly futuristic, whooshing, whining noises that are unlike anything I'd ever heard before.

I think people get too hung up over the noise of an engine. Yes some sound better than others, but at the end of the day whatever it sounds like you know it's going to be ragged to within an inch of its life, and whatever noise it will make, it will sound impressive. It's not going to sound like your clapped out Astra doing 80 with the windows rattling in the outside lane!

It depends what sort of energy recovery system you are talking about - Mulsanne Corner revealed that Audi were trying to develop an energy recovery system that recovered energy from the air that was being compressed by the turbocharger in the braking phase (i.e. when the driver didn't need power from the engine), which did lead to some rather unusual "whooshing" noises (there was a test from Abu Dhabi that they linked to that showed that effect). However, the ACO banned that the moment Audi asked about it, so Audi found that about 18 months work of research had to be completely written off (which Audi weren't exactly happy about).

roblomas52 wrote:Personally I woul like to see this in f1 next year
http://thekneeslider.com/callaway-cyclo ... inline-4s/

So you want to see F1 cars become even more inefficient because of supposedly better sound? The turbos will sound fine and I think they will sound cool with the energy recovery units. The Audis sound cool with the recovery units in LMP1.

mario wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:

dr-baker wrote:I saw the turbodiesel Seats racing in BTCC, and the sound of them were so underwhelming compared to the normally aspirated petrols around them. I gather the turbodiesels at Le Man are no different.

The Audi diesels sound amazing, especially with the energy recovery systems, properly futuristic, whooshing, whining noises that are unlike anything I'd ever heard before.

I think people get too hung up over the noise of an engine. Yes some sound better than others, but at the end of the day whatever it sounds like you know it's going to be ragged to within an inch of its life, and whatever noise it will make, it will sound impressive. It's not going to sound like your clapped out Astra doing 80 with the windows rattling in the outside lane!

It depends what sort of energy recovery system you are talking about - Mulsanne Corner revealed that Audi were trying to develop an energy recovery system that recovered energy from the air that was being compressed by the turbocharger in the braking phase (i.e. when the driver didn't need power from the engine), which did lead to some rather unusual "whooshing" noises (there was a test from Abu Dhabi that they linked to that showed that effect). However, the ACO banned that the moment Audi asked about it, so Audi found that about 18 months work of research had to be completely written off (which Audi weren't exactly happy about).

The only time I've seen them in public Mario was the Silverstone 6 Hours last August, so I'm guessing that specific system wasn't in use back then.

For reference, the Audi R18 engine noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIc1BcWDlM

roblomas52 wrote:Personally I woul like to see this in f1 next year
http://thekneeslider.com/callaway-cyclo ... inline-4s/

Interesting. Very reminiscent of the engine in the Cizeta-Moroder.

Faustus wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:Personally I woul like to see this in f1 next year
http://thekneeslider.com/callaway-cyclo ... inline-4s/

Interesting. Very reminiscent of the engine in the Cizeta-Moroder.

It would still sound better than the V6 turbos next year IMO

This made me giggle:

http://jalopnik.com/how-much-can-cnn-ge ... socialflow

Faustus wrote:This made me giggle:

http://jalopnik.com/how-much-can-cnn-ge ... socialflow

I'd guess the writer of the CNN article thought F1 engines were supercharged...and just didn't have a clue anyway.

Bump, this time with the Honda engine's sound: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/videos/4132/ ... -1-engine/

Shizuka wrote:Bump, this time with the Honda engine's sound: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/videos/4132/ ... -1-engine/

Honda's engine audio reveal does beg a question - when will Ferrari lift the veil over its 2014 power unit? It's perturbedly unusual that there has been little to no news or updates on their engine, especially considering that both 2014 engine suppliers and, now, even a 2015 engine supplier have all released engine audio recordings and have spoken at length to the media (albeit with deliberate ambiguity) on the performance impact of the new power plants.

Probably because they want to hide as much as possible. Rumors are that Ferrari may have the stronkest engine. Or maybe they want to delay the inevitable comparisons of their power units and v12 roaring mosnters we all reminisce about.

It's one thing to have an ugly Ferrari as long as it's fast (and 2013 wasnt it), but i wonder how Tifosi feel about a lousy sounding Ferrari? Newey made comments that next year's cars wont be pretty, so we might have quite a bit to complain about next year. Personally i don't see the connection between "green" and efficient technology and F1. F1 is very unique and there's only a handfull of cars making noises and polluting the planet, so who cares right? It's not like it's a technologically backwards sport. OTOH F1 progress is a good excuse to waste money developing usefull "green" and efficient stuff.

I still wish that if they wanted to move away from combustion engines, they'd be replaced with something that sounds and looks awesome. Could Life be convinced to give it a go? It would be awesome, surely. :D

Truth be told... the Honda actually sounded kinda nice. Looking forward to how the Ferrari sounds in the future. I think they're downplaying themselves as usual, they seem to be good at doing that - and then surpassing everyone's lowered expectations.

Aerospeed wrote:Truth be told... the Honda actually sounded kinda nice. Looking forward to how the Ferrari sounds in the future. I think they're downplaying themselves as usual, they seem to be good at doing that - and then surpassing everyone's lowered expectations.

A mechanic friend of mine told me a couple of days ago that the dynamometer actually distorts the true sound of the engine, transforming even the most euphonious of engine notes into stridulous noise.

I'm sure that the 2014 engines will sound perfectly fine on track next year.

Take this anyway you want, but...

WTF1 posted this on twitter recently on this video which appears to be a Ferrari road car (it's stated to be a Camuffata) driving around Fiorano. If the video is correct, the new 2014 V6 Turbo is in the car. This is awesome on so many levels:

1. They put a F1 engine in a road car
2. It's the first time that the new F1 engines have been heard in the public
3. The new turbos sound good!

Never knew WTF1 would ever be the source for groundbreaking videos.

Aerospeed wrote:Take this anyway you want, but...

WTF1 posted this on twitter recently on this video which appears to be a Ferrari road car (it's stated to be a Camuffata) driving around Fiorano. If the video is correct, the new 2014 V6 Turbo is in the car. This is awesome on so many levels:

1. They put a F1 engine in a road car
2. It's the first time that the new F1 engines have been heard in the public
3. The new turbos sound good!

Never knew WTF1 would ever be the source for groundbreaking videos.

Seconded.

That engine sounds sweet and if they use the body which I think has a hint of can-am to it…

roblomas52 wrote:

Aerospeed wrote:Take this anyway you want, but...

WTF1 posted this on twitter recently on this video which appears to be a Ferrari road car (it's stated to be a Camuffata) driving around Fiorano. If the video is correct, the new 2014 V6 Turbo is in the car. This is awesome on so many levels:

1. They put a F1 engine in a road car
2. It's the first time that the new F1 engines have been heard in the public
3. The new turbos sound good!

Never knew WTF1 would ever be the source for groundbreaking videos.

Seconded.

That engine sounds sweet and if they use the body which I think has a hint of can-am to it…

It certainly does seem to sound like a V6 turbo engine, and I suppose that installing it in a vehicle like a GT car would be one way of racking up on track mileage whilst still adhering to the restrictions on engine development.

There is perhaps another interpretation of what Ferrari might be doing - it is known that a few engine manufacturers are looking to the World Endurance Championship as an additional test bed for their engines, with Renault having already agreed to supply Caterham with engines for a Caterham-Alpine branded entry for the 2014 Le Mans 24 Hours. Ferrari are thought to have looked at the possibility of using the WEC as a test bed for their engine too - it is possible that this entry might therefore be a test mule for the WEC instead.
Perhaps Ferrari might be considering the option of fitting a GT car with a detuned version of their turbo engine? It could conceivably be done in such a way as to fit within the ACO's regulations, who I imagine would be interested if they thought they could tempt Ferrari into a larger presence at Le Mans, they could play up the angle of trickle down technology from F1 and at the same time gain valuable development mileage outside of F1 that could be used to improve their engine within F1.

Vettel thinks new rules shouldn't take away thrill factor

I agree with this.

Not entirely on topic with the article being about the new rules in general, but since a lot of the article is based on the engines, I felt it belonged here.

go_Rubens wrote:Vettel thinks new rules shouldn't take away thrill factor

I agree with this.

Not entirely on topic with the article being about the new rules in general, but since a lot of the article is based on the engines, I felt it belonged here.

Umm, actually if you read it Vettel only hopes the new rules wont take away the thrill factor and in the example he gives, going from V10s to V8s, the thrill factor very clearly went away for him. So he, like some of us, believe the new rules possibly will be negative.

Just found this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zMQ1gki7zoY

That's awesome to hear the Merc engine up close on track.

go_Rubens wrote:Just found this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zMQ1gki7zoY

That's awesome to hear the Merc engine up close on track.

Sounds good, it's not an awful noise to hear. Perhaps the turbo engines won't sound so bad after all.

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:Just found this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zMQ1gki7zoY

That's awesome to hear the Merc engine up close on track.

Sounds good, it's not an awful noise to hear. Perhaps the turbo engines won't sound so bad after all.

Perhaps it's just me, but when the car first enters the frame, it kind of sounds like one of Ferrari's Flat-12 engines from, say 1975?