Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 16:51**

CoopsII wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Newey isn't responsible for the whole car. There's hundreds of other people at the factory who design, build and engineer the cars to the highest level, and there's the race team who are able to set up the car the best. Sure, Newey heads up the design operation, but he's not the sole contributing factor and it's unfair to give him all the credit.

This. It is, after all, a team sport. And yet thickos choose to send the bad vibes Vettels way

I can understand the animosity from the point of view of a casual fan, because it'll look like he's running away with the championship. I don't condone it, but it's part and parcel of casual support. However, when people on here start beginning to make defamatory comments towards Vettel, then I don't particularly understand. I believe that this is one of the most informed forums out there, and certainly it should be obvious to us all that the team effort within Red Bull is second to none. What do people expect, Vettel to not win to appease the fans?

Becoming bored of the status quo is perfectly fine, and having grown up with "the Schumacher years" I totally empathise, but when people insist that some form of bad luck should befall Vettel just to satisfy their own experience, then it becomes ridiculous. If you're the sort of person that shouts "come on Vettel, have a crash", go take a good hard look at yourself.

good_Ralf wrote:Apologies again. What I say on here always seems to get me into trouble.

There is an easy way to check. Before you click "submit", think "does this contribute? Am I adding to the discussion or am I just posting for the sake of it?". Don't make knee-jerk posts.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 16:53**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Last time I looked I thought the idea of F1 was to make a car go fast and win races. Seems like Adrian Newey knows how to do that better than the others at the moment.

Fixed. After all, Newey is the best F1 designer by miles.

That's not funny at all. CoopsII is right. If we want to criticize anyone we should be doing it to Lotus and Ferrari who can't qualify Mercedes who can't match the race pace and Mclaren who made a big mistake

As I said above its not Red Bull's or Vettel's fault its the other teams who clearly are lacking in ideas or pace.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 17:11**

Ataxia wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Newey isn't responsible for the whole car. There's hundreds of other people at the factory who design, build and engineer the cars to the highest level, and there's the race team who are able to set up the car the best. Sure, Newey heads up the design operation, but he's not the sole contributing factor and it's unfair to give him all the credit.

This. It is, after all, a team sport. And yet thickos choose to send the bad vibes Vettels way

I can understand the animosity from the point of view of a casual fan, because it'll look like he's running away with the championship. I don't condone it, but it's part and parcel of casual support. However, when people on here start beginning to make defamatory comments towards Vettel, then I don't particularly understand. I believe that this is one of the most informed forums out there, and certainly it should be obvious to us all that the team effort within Red Bull is second to none. What do people expect, Vettel to not win to appease the fans?

Becoming bored of the status quo is perfectly fine, and having grown up with "the Schumacher years" I totally empathise, but when people insist that some form of bad luck should befall Vettel just to satisfy their own experience, then it becomes ridiculous. If you're the sort of person that shouts "come on Vettel, have a crash", go take a good hard look at yourself.

I agree with this 200% If you don't like Vettel winning then Go home because I'm not willing to waste 90 mins on Sunday listening to people moaning and wishing bad stuff on a Winning driver

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 17:18**

rachel1990 wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:According with F1 weather, the race will be in wet conditions. We already have a ROTR contender.

What? The weather? Surely hot and dry conditions would be rejectful as that generally produces the kind of races some fans on here dislike i.e boring and processional. Personally, at tracks like Monza, a processional race is still a pleasure to watch but a wet and wild race is great fun anywhere. And, hey, if it gives some other drivers a chance to compete with Vettel it might reduce the moaning on here afterwards.

It always amuses me when people repeatedly moan about Vettel repeatedly winning. I know irony isn't for everyone but...

Its not him winning that bugs me its the lack of competition from everyone else.

Then why aren't you complaining that Ferrari and Lotus and Mercedes aren't able to give Vettel that competition? It's not Vettel's fault they're all failing over each other and allowing him to romp away.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 17:54**

Ataxia wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Apologies again. What I say on here always seems to get me into trouble.

There is an easy way to check. Before you click "submit", think "does this contribute? Am I adding to the discussion or am I just posting for the sake of it?". Don't make knee-jerk posts.

Thanks. I did a silly post on the What If thread in early August and the responses sobered me up. I have tried to cut down on unnecessary posts since then but today has perfectly proved how I am still being out of control quite often and I still get some unhappy responses. I think my posts are OK but almost immediately I find they aren't.

Despite trying I still can't mature and behave myself on this forum (which to be honest is a great place) like fellow youths Freeze-O-Kimi, roblomas52 and go_Rubens and I seem to be quite a nuisance to some, so I'm going on partial hiatus and I will stop posting on discussion threads such as this one or at least slow down, whether you like it or not.
I'll use the chatline on race days and I'll still post some things e.g. some virtual championship results and some data I often produce, plus other things on here, but I don't feel like my posts on the PS Memorial Forum, for example, are worthwhile.
This post is as pointless as some of my others but it summarizes my situation on here from my point of view and some of you may find this useful in evaluating me.

This song sums up my feelings of life and my position on this forum for a long time.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 17:58**

On the topic of Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel's imperious form over the past four years...

I recall, as a child watching Formula One in the early 2000s, vehemently denouncing Schumacher, Ferrari, and the flagrantly iniquitous preferential treatment provided by Mosley's FIA to the Scuderia. I watched as my preferred team, McLaren, was thwarted at nearly every technical junction, and persecuted against with a religious zeal by the sport's supposedly objective governing body. I watched and resented the power struggles and the surreptitious machinations and the internecine politics, often instigated by Ferrari, that indelibly marred that era of Grand Prix racing. I hated and detested absolutely everything associated with Ferrari and Michael Schumacher with every fibre of my being.

I didn't enjoy myself at all.

Vettel and Red Bull have enjoyed a considerable amount of success in the past couple of years. Neither Vettel nor Red Bull's technical team are going to yield for as absurd of a concept as competitive magnanimity. Vettel isn't going to suddenly start driving in the spirit of Deletraz, and Newey isn't going to suspend the RB9 on leaf springs, just because a couple of disgruntled viewers have thrown a few tirades and written a few diatribes on the Internet. And to be absolutely frank, the 'noxiousness' of their dominance pales in comparison to the Schumacher era. Apart from a few incidents with front wings and team tensions, ultimately, the paramount reason behind Vettel's success is that he's an extraordinarily fast and consistent driver, and the paramount reason behind Red Bull's success is that they've managed to exploit the current regulations far more successfully and far more consistently than any other outfit on the grid.

I can't force myself to enjoy seeing Vettel and Red Bull on the podium time and time again, while McLaren and Williams are languishing near the back. That doesn't necessarily entail that I have to force myself to hate them, and that certainly doesn't imbue me with the right to infringe upon the enjoyment of Red Bull fans by constantly deprecating and disparaging their favorite team and driver. Success ebbs and flows, drivers and teams come and go, and so too will come the day that Red Bull's dominance will come to an end. Until then, I can still enjoy watching a Grand Prix. I can enjoy watching Button climb from an ignominious last to the top step of the podium. I can enjoy watching Alonso pull off a daring overtake on several cars on the outside of Turn 3 at Catalunya. And I can even enjoy watching Vettel setting a qualifying lap. Why not? Ultimately, we're here to watch ridiculously fast machines being driven around a circuit at very high speeds, aren't we?

Take the sport as it is, and enjoy the sport as it is. I squandered the majority of what I now consider to be some of the best years of Formula One hopping around like a headless chicken seething with rage. I failed to appreciate the tremendous speeds that were being attained at the time, speeds that probably won't be surpassed ever again. I failed to appreciate some of the truly incredible battles that did take place, instead opting to incoherently scream at the television monitor.

There's also a driver that I sincerely miss who's now gone from the paddock. A driver who was undoubtedly one of the more ruthless in motorsport history, but also a pilot with an eccentric sense of humor which I've grown to retrospectively enjoy. A driver responsible for some of the most astonishing qualifying laps and duels in Formula One, who lifted a once-great team out of the doldrums, and who managed to redefine the general perception of the concept of speed. A driver who is, statistically, unequivocally the greatest driver the world has ever seen. A driver who served as one of the final connections to a bygone era, a simpler era, when the likes of Senna, Prost, and Mansell dominated the sport.

I miss Michael Schumacher.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 18:24**

What we miss, at Monza, is Jean Alesi

See his 90 start,
3rd place in qualifying in 92 with this awful ferrari,
the waving to the fans that cause the Berger Crash in qualifying in 93
A great pole in 94 with the inevitable DNF
Aprobable victory lost in 1995
From 6 to 1st in 1996 at the start and finish 2nd
Pole in 1997 and 2nd again
5th in in a sauber in 1998

It is only a tribute to my favorite driver on his favorite track

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 18:39**

All of us here can agree that Newey is so good at his job it is disturbing - most of the teams he worked for have won the title with one of the cars he designed. There is also a huge team of talented people worked behind the scenes on the RBR package. The thing is, Newey isn't the most intelligent man in the world (meant to be taken literally, not figuratively), and the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes also have hugely talented and intelligent people working for them. These people are also hugely talented (otherwise they simply wouldnt be there), so what is it that Red Bull have or do that the other designers can't seem to? Is it they don't understand the secrets of the Red Bull? Is it because they have made a design mistake in the last couple of years? Newey and his design team alone can't be the sole reason behind Red Bull; I doubt very much that the other designers continue to work down routes that aren't working when confronted with the ideal specimen of these regulations: the Red Bulls.

These are highly intelligent people we are talking about - what do they lack that Newey possesses? What technique can't they master that Newey can? How can the other teams consistently design cars that are so much weaker than the Red Bull?

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 19:47**

good_Ralf wrote:
Ataxia wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Apologies again. What I say on here always seems to get me into trouble.

There is an easy way to check. Before you click "submit", think "does this contribute? Am I adding to the discussion or am I just posting for the sake of it?". Don't make knee-jerk posts.

Thanks. I did a silly post on the What If thread in early August and the responses sobered me up. I have tried to cut down on unnecessary posts since then but today has perfectly proved how I am still being out of control quite often and I still get some unhappy responses. I think my posts are OK but almost immediately I find they aren't.

Despite trying I still can't mature and behave myself on this forum (which to be honest is a great place) like fellow youths Freeze-O-Kimi, roblomas52 and go_Rubens and I seem to be quite a nuisance to some, so I'm going on partial hiatus and I will stop posting on discussion threads such as this one or at least slow down, whether you like it or not.
I'll use the chatline on race days and I'll still post some things e.g. some virtual championship results and some data I often produce, plus other things on here, but I don't feel like my posts on the PS Memorial Forum, for example, are worthwhile.
This post is as pointless as some of my others but it summarizes my situation on here from my point of view and some of you may find this useful in evaluating me.

This song sums up my feelings of life and my position on this forum for a long time.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 20:18**

pasta_maldonado wrote:All of us here can agree that Newey is so good at his job it is disturbing - most of the teams he worked for have won the title with one of the cars he designed. There is also a huge team of talented people worked behind the scenes on the RBR package. The thing is, Newey isn't the most intelligent man in the world (meant to be taken literally, not figuratively), and the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes also have hugely talented and intelligent people working for them. These people are also hugely talented (otherwise they simply wouldnt be there), so what is it that Red Bull have or do that the other designers can't seem to? Is it they don't understand the secrets of the Red Bull? Is it because they have made a design mistake in the last couple of years? Newey and his design team alone can't be the sole reason behind Red Bull; I doubt very much that the other designers continue to work down routes that aren't working when confronted with the ideal specimen of these regulations: the Red Bulls.

These are highly intelligent people we are talking about - what do they lack that Newey possesses? What technique can't they master that Newey can? How can the other teams consistently design cars that are so much weaker than the Red Bull?

Well, here's my assessment.

I'm not familiar with the current administrative and technical structure at Ferrari, but a major factor in their relatively uncompetitive form since 2009 must be the institution of the in-season testing ban. Considering that prior to 2009, Ferrari, out of all of the frontrunners, were probably the most dependent on in-season testing for cardevelopment, the ban certainly had a severe impact on their technical department, who no longer had the luxury of endlessly piling experimental components on a car. Moreover, due to their prioritization of in-season testing, their wind tunnel and simulator technologies were inevitably neglected, tools which subsequently became the primary instruments for effective development and Ferrari's underdeveloped facilities had to have viciously compromised the efficacy of the technical department.

McLaren, on the other hand, probably possess the best facilities and technological infrastructure in the business, in addition to some of the best engineers and aerodynamicists. Moreover, unlike most other outfits, McLaren have adopted matrix management systems, sourced from the aerospace industry, in order to maximize efficiency, subsequently systemizing the vast majority of the development process, which should have ensured highly consistent outputs and guaranteed performance. Theoretically speaking, McLaren should be consistently winning championships or at the very least seriously challenging for ones.

Unfortunately, systems are never perfect, and McLaren's overreliance on its theoretical models, much like Ferrari's overreliance of 'brute force' physical testing, have produced inconsistent and erratic performance at times, with this year's MP4-28 a classic case in point. Whereas the theoretical model produced a 'perfect' car, which should've offered a significant quantitative leap in performance over the MP4-27, variances in the calculations led to a serious disruption in the holistic harmony of the vehicle, with the confusion subsequently exacerbated by correlation issues with the simulator and the wind tunnel, leading to further misdirection, and we all know the rest. It didn't help that this year's technical regulations were effectively static, leaving McLaren's engineers even less room to work with.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 21:08**

Neno wrote:What we miss, at Monza, is Jean Alesi

A great pole in 94 with the inevitable DNF

I was watching Monza 94 live and I was so pissed off when he couldn't drive away after his pitstop that I switched off my television. It's 19 years later and I still haven't watched any more of the race.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 21:31**

good_Ralf wrote:
Ataxia wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Apologies again. What I say on here always seems to get me into trouble.

There is an easy way to check. Before you click "submit", think "does this contribute? Am I adding to the discussion or am I just posting for the sake of it?". Don't make knee-jerk posts.

Thanks. I did a silly post on the What If thread in early August and the responses sobered me up. I have tried to cut down on unnecessary posts since then but today has perfectly proved how I am still being out of control quite often and I still get some unhappy responses. I think my posts are OK but almost immediately I find they aren't.

Despite trying I still can't mature and behave myself on this forum (which to be honest is a great place) like fellow youths Freeze-O-Kimi, roblomas52 and go_Rubens and I seem to be quite a nuisance to some, so I'm going on partial hiatus and I will stop posting on discussion threads such as this one or at least slow down, whether you like it or not.
I'll use the chatline on race days and I'll still post some things e.g. some virtual championship results and some data I often produce, plus other things on here, but I don't feel like my posts on the PS Memorial Forum, for example, are worthwhile.
This post is as pointless as some of my others but it summarizes my situation on here from my point of view and some of you may find this useful in evaluating me.

This song sums up my feelings of life and my position on this forum for a long time.

Despite being fond of Vettel I didn't think your post was that bad. Newey deserves a lot of credit.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 22:33**

In case anyone has forgotten the address for live chat.

Posted: **06 Sep 2013, 23:11**

good_Ralf, if you're still reading the forums you contribute a lot of good stuff and it would be good to have you back when you're ready. Nobody hates you, and if they do, then hell, it's the Internet and no one can do anything that bad to you. For everyone else, I don't think there's a need to point out "bad posts" unless they are really persistent. I for one simply gloss over them and respond to only the things I find interesting or funny (OK, I can be childish at times

).

Perhaps its better that Red Bull in general are discussed in the Rantbox, but my 2 cents is that Red Bull should not be hated on for winning, BUT it should be noted that they spend more than any other team in Formula 1, and in the same way it is possible to take a view akin to football where Man City/Chelsea/Real Madrid/Monaco etc make a mockery of financial fair play and buy their way to the title. If you've got more resources, you're more likely to win, hence the general view that although Vettel is a brilliant driver, he may be no better than Alonso/Hamilton in the same machinery. It really depends whether you look at Formula 1 from a constructors' or drivers' championship perspective. Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of technology and teams should not be held back (constructors), but this can lead to supposedly inferior drivers winning the title because of their team (drivers). Its a grey area. Personally, whilst I know that I shouldn't dislike Vettel for winning so often and I respect the engineering of Red Bull, I can't help but want a more level playing field to see who the best driver really is.

Flame me if you want.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 02:25**

good_Ralf wrote:This post is as pointless as some of my others

So why did you say it?

but it summarizes my situation on here from my point of view and some of you may find this useful in evaluating me.

-Number one, my brain just froze, got chopped into little tiny atoms, and was reconstructed on Ursa Minor Beta.

-Number two, I don't like to evaluate, or most of all, judge people. Well, evaluating might be a good thing, but you make it look like you want to be judged. As Ataxia said, as he speaks of experience, before you hit submit, do you think you are adding to the conversation? Are you making a smart decision? Are you posting a load of bull paddies? If any of these you think is true, then don't post your message, or edit it before you submit it. It'll do you a lot of good in the long run.

-Number three, don't feel that ashamed of yourself. It's online, it's not like they are shouting it in your face IRL. But if you feel you need to take a break, think about what you can do to become a mature forum member. Again, it'll do you a lot of good in the long run. I make sure that I learn a lesson if I make a mistake and try my best not to do it again. I still make mistakes once in a while, which I try my best to correct in the future. It works, trust me.

Now for my take on practice in Monza. It's free practice. The teams could be doing anything in free practice, therefore, the results are inaccurate to the actual pace if the cars. For example, Chilton beating both Caterhams in FP2 and knocking on the door to the midfield is a surprise, and Bianchi being in super slow motion is a surprise as well. But they could have done anything legal to do that. Same with Red Bull. It doesn't mean VETTELWINSLOL already. There is still a zarking qualifying session left to run, as well as another FP. So please, don't be disappointed already. And don't count on Vettel winning or starting last. Have I made my point clear yet?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 05:33**

Neno wrote:What we miss, at Monza, is Ricardo Rosset

fixed

Faustus wrote:I was watching Monza 94 live and I was so pissed off when he couldn't drive away after his pitstop that I switched off my television. It's 19 years later and I still haven't watched any more of the race.

too bad. You missed a Bigfoot sighting on lap 23 at Curve di Lesmo, and the appearance of the ghost of Elvis at Variante della Roggia seven laps later.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 06:01**

Onto more contemporary matters, Lotus have announced that Kimi will be reverting back to the conventional car, rather than the longer wheelbase version he used in the earlier practise sessions, based on driver feedback and their technical data.
Although it appears that there is nothing wrong with the handling of the modified car, it looks like they were unable to get the expected benefits from it in that session - Kimi has said that he felt no real discernible difference and Grosjean set exactly the same lap time as Kimi in FP2. Given that the team have more data to work with for the conventional car, they are reverting back to that for the race and will instead wheel out the modified car in the next races to fine tune it a bit more. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109701

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 10:17**

Jocke1 wrote:
Faustus wrote:I was watching Monza 94 live and I was so pissed off when he couldn't drive away after his pitstop that I switched off my television. It's 19 years later and I still haven't watched any more of the race.
too bad. You missed a Bigfoot sighting on lap 23 at Curve di Lesmo, and the appearance of the ghost of Elvis at Variante della Roggia seven laps later.

Do you know where to find clips of that?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 11:43**

Force India are making a good case for ROTR. They have been miles away from the other midfielders with Toro Rosso using their good speed, Williams are showing improved pace and Sauber although only 12th and 13th were within 1 second of Vettel. I wouldn't be Surprised if the 2 Force India's drop out along with the Caterham's and Marussia's in Q1

Also for the First Time this season Max Chilton has made me smile a little bit for his efforts without the ChiltonCraze sarcasm. He's been close to Bianchi all weekend and Credit where Credit's Due.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:13**

Rowan Atkinson on screen.
New Caption this! gif incoming?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:23**

It never fails. One third of the F1 press conference talks, always seem to revolve around subjects other than Formula One!
Cycling, soccer, olympics etc.
Watching the Thursday press conference at Monza, I see the 'reporters' manage to continue the trend. :roll:

And poor Max Chilton, he didn't even get a one question from the 'reporters' for the duration of the press conference,
other than at the tail end (last 30 seconds). Why did the FIA even bring Chilton to this PC?
He participated in the Silverstone PC for obvious reasons, but why the Monza PC? What's the connection?

Come to think of it, I feel inclined now to ask everyone to stand up!
Could it be that Max Chilton was chosen for the Monza press conference, purely because of our ChiltonCraze?

What I took away from this PC, though, was this little nugget:

Max Chilton
You learn a lot before you get to Formula One but there’s an awful lot when you do get to Formula One as well. So the main thing I’m trying to do is focus on my skills, get the most out of the car and do the best job for the team.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:49**

Oh, shite! Sutil blocked Hamilton on the parabólica and Ham's out of Q3. This will end bad...

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:49**

wow lewis properly pissed very upset

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:51**

Hulkenberg 5th in Q2 on merit! Sadly, I doubt he'll qualify better than 9th or 10th in Q3.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 12:53**

Ferrari tandem run. Is this the return of the long lost slipstream qualy?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:01**

Hülkenberg ahead of both Ferraris... nice! :shock:

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:02**

WOW The Hulk in 3rd!!

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:02**

How did Hulk manage that? :shock:

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:03**

Hulkenberg 3rd. Wat.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:03**

VETTELWINSLOL, Vergne triying out luck as a rally driver, The Hulk appearing from nowhere into third and Ferrari showing how NOT TO DO a slipstream run.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:05**

Huge effort from Hulkenberg.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:07**

IIDOTQ - Hülkenberg, full stop, new paragraph.
ROTQ - Lotus, Hamilton, Ferrari's slipstream effort... hard to choose, really.

It will be interesting to see how those three drivers (RoGro, Kimi and Lewis) will climb up.
Force India dropped hard. VERY hard. This was the track where Sutil scored a front row in qualifying four years ago...

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:08**

Most entertaining qualifying of the year. Great.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:09**

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:09**

SeedStriker wrote:Ferrari tandem run. Is this the return of the long lost slipstream qualy?

Not the way they were doing it (badly).

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:11**

Absolutely pukka performance from Hulkenberg.

Alonso didn't seem too downbeat about the failed tow plan in the press pit, I don't think Ferrari would have got much more out of the car anyway. Red Bull pretty much had this sewn up on Friday...

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:15**

SeedStriker wrote:VETTELWINSLOL, Vergne triying out luck as a rally driver, The Hulk appearing from nowhere into third and Ferrari showing how NOT TO DO a slipstream run.

Some people just never learn do they? this is not VETTELWINSLOL for one moment. I predict a great race tomorrow regardless if he wins or not. Hulkenberg to Ferrari?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:20**

Someone give Hulk a drive right now. Ferrari, sign Hulk. Now. Or Lotus. Now. Nico, you legend.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:20**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
SeedStriker wrote:VETTELWINSLOL, Vergne triying out luck as a rally driver, The Hulk appearing from nowhere into third and Ferrari showing how NOT TO DO a slipstream run.

Some people just never learn do they? this is not VETTELWINSLOL for one moment. I predict a great race tomorrow regardless if he wins or not. Hulkenberg to Ferrari?

Mark Webber will win tomorrow.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 13:24**

That is Hulk's best qualifying in the dry. He should have been 10 spots lower than that but that was...

Personally, as promising as it is, I don't want to visualize Nico on the podium tomorrow - every time a midfield driver is set to win or be in the top 3 something stops them.

Perez - Malaysia last year
Hulkenberg - Belgium last year
Hulkenberg - Brazil last year
Sutil - Australia
di Resta - Bahrain
Sutil - Britain

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