Grand Prix Rejects

go_Rubens wrote:

GwilymJJames wrote:

Ataxia wrote:It's not as black and white as that. Both Webber and Alonso got reprimands for giving a lift in an unsafe manner. As this was Webber's third reprimand, he gets a 10-place grid penalty.

I don't see why there's so much of an uproar.

Furthermore, watching the footage, Alonso parked in a clearly unsafe place, forcing the Mercs to take avoiding action, and if there is a rule against entering the track without the marshal's permission, Webber obviously broke it.

Clear reprimand, Webber has two reprimands already, they add up, it's a grid drop.

Nothing to complain about.

Is there video? Quite frankly, I want to see it. The TV Director was up to his old tricks again. (I did see Webber climbing onto the F 138, but not the evasive action)

Here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/groups/f1/fo ... singapore/

The stewards are asshats, not much more can be said.

Dark77 wrote:The stewards are asshats, not much more can be said.

Would you like to elucidate, or are we just going to leave it there?

Butthurt Singaport Fans -- Again, successfully trolled by Vettel.
Singapore Grand Prix -- I stopped watching around 30 laps in because I knew what was going to happen. The only exciting things to ever happen at this track are crashes.
Daniel Ricciardo -- Karthikeyan would be embarrassed with that one.
Caterham and Marussia -- Finished behind a car that DNF'd, further proving that new teams cannot enter F1 without being permanently left behind.

Ataxia wrote:

Dark77 wrote:The stewards are asshats, not much more can be said.

Would you like to elucidate, or are we just going to leave it there?

Ah stop your moaning Ataxia if Dark77 wants to nominate the stewards then he wants to nominate the stewards end of

Cynon wrote:Caterham and Marussia -- Finished behind a car that DNF'd, further proving that new teams cannot enter F1 without being permanently left behind.

The FIA are partly at fault for their unsuccessful reign in F1.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

Ataxia wrote:

Dark77 wrote:The stewards are asshats, not much more can be said.

Would you like to elucidate, or are we just going to leave it there?

Ah stop your moaning Ataxia if Dark77 wants to nominate the stewards then he wants to nominate the stewards end of

Plus, any case of sportsmanship doesn't deserve penalties, unless it's Opposite Day.

Paul di Resta, binning it not once, but twice in one weekend and was as high as 3rd on strategy before the crash. Sure has a talent of converting points into wreckage.

Ricciardo is a dishonorable mention.

Ataxia wrote:Er, did you read what I said? He wasn't given the penalty DIRECTLY for the lift incident. He received a reprimand, that's it.

According to the FIA penalty system, three reprimands = 10-place grid drop. No ifs, no buts.

To be a bit more accurate, the penalty after three reprimands kicks in if the driver in question earned a minimum of two reprimands for his conduct on track - having earned a penalty in Bahrain for driving into Rosberg before picking up a second penalty in Canada for speeding in a yellow flag zone meant that any reprimand would have earned Webber a grid penalty by default.

It's unfortunate that it should have happened, but the major problem was Webber returning to the track without the permission of the marshals - it's part of the regulations to prevent teams from cheating (e.g. by collecting weights on the way into the pits to comply with the minimum weight limits) by forcing the drivers to return immediately to the pits for post race inspections. I can see the logic from the FIA in terms of why they penalised those involved - and Alonso did park on the exit of a blind corner on the racing line, which could have ended in a nastier manner if either Rosberg or Hamilton had been going a bit faster and run into him - but at the same time I can understand why some feel that the gesture of goodwill has been crushed by bureaucratic wrangling.

go_Rubens wrote:

Cynon wrote:Caterham and Marussia -- Finished behind a car that DNF'd, further proving that new teams cannot enter F1 without being permanently left behind.

The FIA are partly at fault for their unsuccessful reign in F1.

Mind you, it has to be said that the teams are no better and, if anything, exacerbating the problems given that the teams are refusing to let the FIA become even remotely involved in the financial side of the sport. Although the FIA has brought in some cost cutting measures - I believe that they were behind the restrictions on wind tunnel work in recent years - it has generally been FOTA that has driven things like the RRA, although not without creating some friction within the paddock.
Tost, for example, had some rather strong and bitter words about the reintroduction of in season tests (complaining that the teams were "stupid", that they were wasting money by testing but were effectively strong armed by the richest teams into running in season tests thanks to their political leverage).
Fernandes, too, seems to be saving most of his ire for FOTA rather than for the FIA - his complaint was that the teams have "screwed up" the sport by refusing to countenance cuts to spending and would rather drive the sport into the ground than relinquish their control. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/20/t ... osts-down/

Sorry for the knee-jerk post, I'll try to avoid them in future.

Another nomination: Anyone complaining about Vettel winning including those complaining about those who complain that Vettel keeps winning, including Vettel and Red Bull themselves. I'm sorry but people are going to jeer Vettel for what he has done over his career, whether he likes it or not. That's sports; it happens everywhere and F1 is not immune to it. Likewise, Red Bull (as seen here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110089 which I can't read due to Autosport's stupid paywalling over EVERYTHING) and Vettel (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110069; again, can't read it because of Autosport) need to shut up as well because this is only going to give more fuel to those that already hate Vettel and if anything, will increase jeering and catcalls.

That's just sports; there's going to be cheering for those that people like and booing for those that people don't like, and I don't see why Formula 1 has to be any different.

What about Nico Hülkenberg's penalty too for apparently leaving the track and gaining an advantage against Perez? Some might call his comments on the radio and after the race whining, but I think he had a legitimate case! His Sauber was clearly ahead and his only other option would have been to turn in on Perez and make contact, possibly gaining a puncture. It cost him a potential 7th place because his tyres were clearly in better condition than Button's towards the end of the race and he probably would have had a good chance of overtaking. Sauber need those points!

The Vettel booing has become a bit of a sad craze now, which has just 'caught on'. I suspect the underlying reason is because people are just bored of his domination, which is no fault of his own! There were many reasons to dislike Schumacher more than Vettel!

a mention also goes to Valtteri Bottas, who spent the early part of the race battling Giedo van der Garde's Caterham! Maldonado at least finished an encouraging 11th. With Gutiérrez's improving form this weekend Williams are starting to become favorites for Reject of the Year, despite much of that attention being directed at McLaren..

pher38 wrote:What about Nico Hülkenberg's penalty too for apparently leaving the track and gaining an advantage against Perez? Some might call his comments on the radio and after the race whining, but I think he had a legitimate case! His Sauber was clearly ahead and his only other option would have been to turn in on Perez and make contact, possibly gaining a puncture. It cost him a potential 7th place because his tyres were clearly in better condition than Button's towards the end of the race and he probably would have had a good chance of overtaking. Sauber need those points!

His reaction on the team radio was hilarious and his voice had a British accent to it such that I didn't think it was him.

I'm tempted to nominate everyone in F1 apart from Vettel, his mechanics and Adrian Newey. Not just because he won by half a minute despite losing a 20 second lead to a safety car mid race, but because of that and the fact that he probably could've won by even more today if he'd been so inclined. Pretty dominant.

That said, I'll nominate the stewards for making Hulkenberg give a place to Perez. It really looked to me like Perez nudged Hulkenberg off the circuit, and if he didn't, there surely would've been contact if Hulkenberg had tried to stay within the white lines.

Got to be Ricciardo for his Karthikeyan moment.

Also a bit reminiscent of when Perez got it in Japan last year just after he'd signed for (what was at the time as McLaren aren't that any more) a top team.

Silver goes to Di Resta, bronze to Webber's car - reminiscent of the Ferrari domination years it was nearly always Barrichello's car which had problems.

good_Ralf wrote:His reaction on the team radio was hilarious and his voice had a British accent to it such that I didn't think it was him.

To be fair, I wouldn't have noticed it was him if it wasn't for the TV display.

His voice was hilariously high.

Cynon wrote:Caterham and Marussia -- Finished behind a car that DNF'd, further proving that new teams cannot enter F1 without being permanently left behind.

I'd have to disagree with you very strongly on that one. As a spectator in the stands,before the safety car,a Caterham,Pi maybe,was running ahead of a Williams LEGIT. And the other three were having a nice scrap before Bianchi picked up a problem and had to pit. Even after the safety car,the Caterham managed to last in front of the Williams. Either this has shown improvement from the backmarkers or the downfall of Williams,but either way,they should be proud for their efforts.

My ROTR goes to Ricciardo. Binning it with no one around you in the middle of the race when being announced as the next signing for a big team is just....rejectful.

There's a few choices. I was going to say the stewards when I saw Webber's penalty, but now I understand that it was quite dangerous and it was a reprimand that contributed to a penalty, all is good and fair there, albeit a bit sad.

Daniel Ricciardo is the best shout for ROTR on a driver front. He had an absolutely dreadful getaway and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he was in the hunt for points when he crashed. The crash itself seemed to be pure driver error.

But my vote has to go to the Vettel boo-boys. I sort of understand why there would be booing in Britain (Hamilton heartland) and Italy (the Tifosi) but in Singapore? Its not like they've got a home driver or team to defend.

Ataxia wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:I was at the party conference so am yet to watch the race, but did I just see that Webber got a penalty for having a lift back after his car (shockingly) broke down?

This is a joke, right? Some sort of elaborate ruse?

It's not as black and white as that. Both Webber and Alonso got reprimands for giving a lift in an unsafe manner. As this was Webber's third reprimand, he gets a 10-place grid penalty.

I don't see why there's so much of an uproar.

Because its Webber, the board darling. If it had been Vettel, this would have been the greatest, most just penalty ever in history.

Riccardo for ROTR. I know you're relaxed after getting the A-team call up, but that's just napping.

going to go with the booing of vettel yet again I'm not his biggest fan but it isn't really his fault for driving clean races in what is a good if not the best car on the grid.

can't think of anything else apart from Hulks penalty really

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Hard to split between di Resta and Ricciardo, but I give the award to Ricciardo. Di Resta had the excuse of being on older tyres at the end of a mentally draining race when he made his mistake, and he was set for points, whereas Ricciardo was nowhere really. Dishonourable mention to the FIA for Webber's grid penalty

Di Resta was on 12 lap-old mediums when he crashed, so he had fresher tires than just about everyone he was chasing. He is my nominee simply because I might not have many more chances to nominate him.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

Ataxia wrote:

Dark77 wrote:The stewards are asshats, not much more can be said.

Would you like to elucidate, or are we just going to leave it there?

Ah stop your moaning Ataxia if Dark77 wants to nominate the stewards then he wants to nominate the stewards end of

It would be nice if people backed up their opinions with legitimate reasoning behind it. If he'd said something like "the call for Hulkenberg to allow Perez through was probably the wrong call", I'd not have moaned.

Excuse me for wanting more of a debate over issues rather than partake in slinging enough shite in the hope some will stick.

My post was an unintentionally angry one made in the heat of the moment, perhaps we should not allow ROTR threads to be made until maybe a day or so after the race to let people calm down to prevent posts like that from happening again.

4. The first 50 laps of the race
3. Vettel haters/booers/etc.
1=. di Resta
1=. Ricciardo

Fell asleep right after the race, and so was left unaware on Webber's reprimand and subsequent penalty until I opened up Autosport.com a whole twelve hours after the race.

Despite my aversion regarding the issued reprimand, especially with consideration to the circumstances under which the transgression was committed, and my personal partiality towards the Aussie himself, the reality remains that Webber did breach the sporting violations, and by virtue of his previous reprimands, was issued a grid penalty. As much as I'd like to advocate for Webber and Alonso's impromptu display of sportsmanship and camaraderie, I can't justify inveighing the stewards for simply applying the much maligned penalty system with consistency for once.

I can, however, justify said admonishment and the awarding of ROTR to the stewards for their astigmatic judgment on the Hulkenberg-Perez incident. At no point during that exchange was Perez ever ahead of Hulkenberg; if anything, it was Perez's maneuver that compelled the German to leave the track to avoid contact. I'm thoroughly perplexed on what compelled the stewards in directing Hulkenberg to concede a position to a driver that had never occupied it.

Dishonorable mentions go to: Daniel Ricciardo, Force India, and the aggregate misfortune of Romain Grosjean and Mark Webber.

Definitely Riccairdo. Pulled a Karthikeyan and binned it right below us. I loved how part of his nose was still left hanging in the barriers afterwards.

Honourable mention goes to 'lapped cars may now overtake' rule, which wasted about 10 minutes of racing time.

I booed Vettel so much, I have actually lost my voice today. I feel pleased that I am receiving so many nominations here. People boo those that they don't like in every sport. I don't see how Formula 1 should be any different.

Dan B wrote:Another nomination: Anyone complaining about Vettel winning including those complaining about those who complain that Vettel keeps winning, including Vettel and Red Bull themselves. I'm sorry but people are going to jeer Vettel for what he has done over his career, whether he likes it or not. That's sports; it happens everywhere and F1 is not immune to it. Likewise, Red Bull (as seen here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110089 which I can't read due to Autosport's stupid paywalling over EVERYTHING) and Vettel (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110069; again, can't read it because of Autosport) need to shut up as well because this is only going to give more fuel to those that already hate Vettel and if anything, will increase jeering and catcalls.

That's just sports; there's going to be cheering for those that people like and booing for those that people don't like, and I don't see why Formula 1 has to be any different.

Well, FC BARCELONA weren't booed when they dominated everything in 2009 and 2011...

go_Rubens wrote:Is there video? Quite frankly, I want to see it. The TV Director was up to his old tricks again. (I did see Webber climbing onto the F 138, but not the evasive action)

Are you implying it didnt happen?

Anyway.

1 - People who boo Vettel. Piss off and watch football instead. Morons.
2 - Ricciardo, although I feel its a bit harsh, everyone makes a mistake. The most annoying part was nobody was able to catch Vettel again.

In all honesty the race was so uneventful and Vettels opposition so weak I could nominate the rest of the field for being so lame.

Several people come close:
1. The Stewards: Webber got a penalty, Hulkenberg was forced to give up a place wrongfully...they were just all over the place.
2. First 27 laps: A borefest that would have put Monaco's collection of most boring races to shame.
3. Daniel Ricciardo: a good Saturday, and a Reject-worthy Sunday. That was unexpected.
4. Jenson Button: A driver who's good on tyres, in a car that's generally good on tyres...for getting to the cliff quickest of 'em all, apart from Estebean Gutierrez Gutierrez.

BUT THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE WINNER
Paul di Resta, for binning it two races in a row. He made his supersofts last, switched on to primes, and then...whoopsie

EDIT: Yikes, that was dangerous. Right call by the stewards then I guess..

Stewards. Point. That used to happen all the time and is always hailed by the fans. That is sportsmanship. It is comradery. It should be what F1 is all about but they give a *censored* reprimand, knowing it will give him a penalty. I think Weber took that one, just to make a point, really.

Second would be that guy who didn't have his amour on and was not trained... Seriously, Lotus?

Rusujuur wrote:Stewards. Point. That used to happen all the time and is always hailed by the fans. That is sportsmanship. It is comradery. It should be what F1 is all about but they give a *censored* reprimand, knowing it will give him a penalty. I think Weber took that one, just to make a point, really.

Watch the clip above as you clearly havent. Theres nothing sportsmanlike about Webber being hit by a Mercedes F1 car, even if it wasnt at full race speed. Nor would it have been particulary pleasant had the second Mercedes rear-ended the Ferrari. In both instances there would've been blood and Aussiegrit spread across the race track. Its unfortunate he's been given the ten place punishment but stupid is as stupid does.

Stewards really gone....... *censored* about Webber's penalty. I'm gonna say to them if you pick your friends or wife, you must be given a penalty of not stewarding next 10 races

WaffleCat wrote:

Cynon wrote:Caterham and Marussia -- Finished behind a car that DNF'd, further proving that new teams cannot enter F1 without being permanently left behind.

I'd have to disagree with you very strongly on that one. As a spectator in the stands,before the safety car,a Caterham,Pi maybe,was running ahead of a Williams LEGIT. And the other three were having a nice scrap before Bianchi picked up a problem and had to pit. Even after the safety car,the Caterham managed to last in front of the Williams. Either this has shown improvement from the backmarkers or the downfall of Williams,but either way,they should be proud for their efforts.

I think it's the awfulness of the Williams. A car so slow that Caterham and Marussia can mirror the performance at times.

For all of you nominating the Stewarts for the webber decision watch this m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBByzQBCSXE
Hamilton nearly creams into the back of fernando and Nico nearly made mincemeat of Mark. I nominate Riccardo for his Karthikeyan moment

I agree that what Fernando and Mark did was dangerous, but the penalty only makes sense if the reason behind it was the position in which Alonso stopped the car. All was good, then I saw that the FIA is thinking of banning taxi rides altogether. If the driver in the car stops in a safe place and the driver getting picked up has authorization from the marshalls, I don't see where the problem is...

tommykl wrote:I agree that what Fernando and Mark did was dangerous, but the penalty only makes sense if the reason behind it was the position in which Alonso stopped the car. All was good, then I saw that the FIA is thinking of banning taxi rides altogether. If the driver in the car stops in a safe place and the driver getting picked up has authorization from the marshalls, I don't see where the problem is...

Because if the driver falls off the side of the car at 70mph we are looking at some horrible injuries.

CoopsII wrote:

Rusujuur wrote:Stewards. Point. That used to happen all the time and is always hailed by the fans. That is sportsmanship. It is comradery. It should be what F1 is all about but they give a *censored* reprimand, knowing it will give him a penalty. I think Weber took that one, just to make a point, really.

Watch the clip above as you clearly havent. Theres nothing sportsmanlike about Webber being hit by a Mercedes F1 car, even if it wasnt at full race speed. Nor would it have been particulary pleasant had the second Mercedes rear-ended the Ferrari. In both instances there would've been blood and Aussiegrit spread across the race track. Its unfortunate he's been given the ten place punishment but stupid is as stupid does.

Derek Warwick, the driver steward for that race, has said that the stewards would probably have been more lenient on both drivers had Alonso not stopped on the exit of the corner and if Webber hadn't run across the track to his car.

“It is not health and safety gone mad,” said Warwick, who is also the president of the British Racing Drivers’ Club. “A driver could easily have been hurt.

“I hope we’re not seen as killjoys. I want Formula One to be entertaining. I want it to be a spectacle. I’m a big fan of MotoGP and I wish we in Formula One could get closer to the drivers like they do in MotoGP.

“We have become a bit sterile in many ways in Formula One. But we cannot put drivers at risk. If it had been done in a safer manner, then it might have been viewed differently but this was potentially very dangerous. You can’t have cars parked in the middle of a corner.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -lift.html

The other problem is that, once Webber broke the regulations, the stewards could only issue a reprimand in that situation. Warwick claims that the drivers had actually formally voted for reprimands, rather than fines, to be imposed on drivers for the very breach of the regulations that Webber carried out, so in that instance the drivers actually reduced the options of the stewards.

andrew wrote:

tommykl wrote:I agree that what Fernando and Mark did was dangerous, but the penalty only makes sense if the reason behind it was the position in which Alonso stopped the car. All was good, then I saw that the FIA is thinking of banning taxi rides altogether. If the driver in the car stops in a safe place and the driver getting picked up has authorization from the marshalls, I don't see where the problem is...

Because if the driver falls off the side of the car at 70mph we are looking at some horrible injuries.

The risk of injuries if a driver falls off the car is the very reason why the FIA wants to discourage drivers from offering lifts - they won't explicitly ban the practise, but it seems that the driver briefing in Korea will advise the drivers not to stop on track to pick up other drivers and the marshals will be instructed not to allow drivers back onto the track if cars are still circulating round to the pits.

Official decision time (trying to get back into the habit of presenting the official decision within a few days of the race ... not within a few days of the next race!).

Tough one this time. Daniel Ricciardo certainly made a very compelling case - an awful start, followed by a lovely, languid understeer to join the likes of Kamui Kobayashi, Bruno Senna and Narain Karthikeyan in coming to grief at turn 18. But in the end he had to settle for a "featured picture" recognition on the main page. Paul Di Resta also put his hand up for back-to-back awards, but in the end I thought there were better choices.

"The whole field bar Vettel" was certainly in contention as well - not necessarily because Vettel was so utterly dominant, but more because, after the first lap, everyone settled into tyre preservation mode. Why bother with the first segment of the race if everyone's just going to tour around waiting for the first round of stops? (This, I might add, makes a contrast from the fuel-stop races ten years ago when there was equally no change of position leading up to stops, but at least everyone was driving at the max.) And am I the only one to think there is a contradiction between tyre preservation (i.e. trying to make your tyres last longer), and the fact that pitting earlier gives you an advantage because of the undercut? Whilst Vettel's speed was sensational - verging on alarming - it was magnified because no-one else was driving anywhere near full speed. I mean, Webber has never been particularly strong in Singapore, but in the same car Vettel is not 2.5s a lap faster than Mark.

But in the end I've gone for the stewards. Not for the Alonso/Webber taxi-ride incident; I understand the safety justifications and the fact that it's Mark's third reprimand, even if I think the whole thing is a bit nanny-state. But for the Hulkenberg-Perez incident, which I'm still fuming about. The fact that Nico remained behind Perez for the rest of the race only added to the gross injustice. I mean, what was Nico supposed to do? Ensure that he stay within the confines of the track ... but also ensure that he gets tapped by the McLaren in his rear-left corner and probably be spun, possibly into a wall? The problem was that Sergio, having not got fully alongside at the turn-in point, was not conceding. It sets a ridiculous precedent. Going into any corner where there is sufficient run-off on the outside (which is most corners these days), if you want to pass someone you just stick your nose in, hope the other driver doesn't turn in on you, and drift out wide forcing the driver you want to pass off the track, and the stewards will tell him to concede the place to you. Easy.

Ridiculous, more like.

Although I think the boo-boys still deserve ROTR, I can see how unjust the stewards' decision on the Hulkenberg move was and had that been for a higher position in the race than certainly it would have gone down as a lot more scandalous. So I can't really argue much with your decision Enoch.

Enoch, I fully respect your decision for ROTR. It's certainly not the first time the stewards bathplugged up.

I usually defend the stewards as they have a difficult job, but that one was plainly ridiculous.