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Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 12 Nov 2009, 23:03
by shinji
Waris wrote:Phoenix wrote:Waris wrote:
I giggled heartily.
You think it's funny that a complete unknown sleeps in my Holy Bed?
Yes, especially when it's together with you. XD
I'm feckin 15!
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 12 Nov 2009, 23:37
by lostpin
CarlosFerreira wrote:There's just one thing off with your prediction, I think: Kimi takes a year off, eats lots of ice cream and goes fat.
Yap, I believe that's the thing that's going to happen. Besides, he's got some 25 million spare cash for booze and cream now...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 12 Nov 2009, 23:43
by lostpin
Phoenix wrote:shinji wrote:
You're bed is holy?
I am already plotting my escape.
That's...em...well....you dispense with the word 'your' before the word 'bed' or 'bedroom', so there
I think we can end this charade by saying - don't use double negatives, because every time you do, an African child dies.
[/subject change][/quote]
It's OK for me, and don't worry, I will never won't tell this to no-one...[/quote]
What I find most funny here is that in my language double-negatives (or even triple!) are very common (and sometimes even mandatory!), hihi... (off the subject, but nevermind...)
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 07:52
by thehemogoblin
shinji wrote:Waris wrote:Phoenix wrote:You think it's funny that a complete unknown sleeps in my Holy Bed?
Yes, especially when it's together with you. XD
I'm feckin 15!
Dude, the only way to make sure there's no party diseases is to get them when they're still factory sealed.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 08:42
by DonTirri
thehemogoblin wrote:shinji wrote:Yes, especially when it's together with you. XD
I'm feckin 15!
Dude, the only way to make sure there's no party diseases is to get them when they're still factory sealed.[/quote]
O_O
*Literally drops from his seat to ROFL.*
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 13:55
by Phoenix
Waris wrote:Phoenix wrote:Waris wrote:
I giggled heartily.
You think it's funny that a complete unknown sleeps in my Holy Bed?
Yes, especially when it's together with you. XD
Why don't you join our party, if it's so funny for you?
BTW Jenson was asking for his new fatigue to have a capa and the underwear visible...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 14:18
by Captain Hammer
Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 14:40
by Phoenix
Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
Too many things together to give it credibility though.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 17:41
by DemocalypseNow
Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
Wow. Thats the perfect recipie for Rejectdom. Orange
and Becks on the same car? Maybe they'll have backing from PSN too...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 18:11
by RejectSteve
Phoenix wrote:Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting ... while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
Too many things together to give it credibility though.
I'd heard they'll be using an alternative Mobil product...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 18:34
by Jordan192
RejectSteve wrote:Phoenix wrote:Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting ... while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
Too many things together to give it credibility though.
I'd heard they'll be using an alternative Mobil product...
Got to be Futurama, but I don't recognise it. weird...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 19:15
by Snoozey2
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 19:38
by Many Blue Flags
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 20:27
by dr-baker
lostpin wrote:CarlosFerreira wrote:There's just one thing off with your prediction, I think: Kimi takes a year off, eats lots of ice cream and goes fat.
Yap, I believe that's the thing that's going to happen. Besides, he's got some 25 million spare cash for booze and cream now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coom0RJg ... 6&index=29
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 21:30
by Phoenix
Many Blue Flags wrote:
At least we aren't discussing Shinji's plans to live/sleep with me more...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 21:42
by shinji
Phoenix wrote:Many Blue Flags wrote:
At least we aren't discussing Shinji's plans to live/sleep with me more...
Just to clarify - they weren't my plans. It was all organised for me.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 21:48
by CarlosFerreira
Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
OK, sounds sort-of-plausible. Brawn seems to have a bit of leverage here in Britain - have seen some caps around.
BTW, where do you get these reports? It's not the DYI journalism, is it?
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 21:50
by shinji
CarlosFerreira wrote:Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
OK, sounds sort-of-plausible. Brawn seems to have a bit of leverage here in Britain - have seen some caps around.
BTW, where do you get these reports? It's not the DYI journalism, is it?
Of course it's not, he's got 1,000 posts!
I got this article from March about Brawn/bwin -
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21231.html,
Google didn't have anything for Orange or Becks.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 13 Nov 2009, 21:53
by DemocalypseNow
CarlosFerreira wrote:Captain Hammer wrote:Reports are suggesting Brawn's major sponsor for 2010 will be telecom brand Orange - previously involved with Arrows back in 2002 - along with internet gambling agency bwin and German brewery Becks, who were also previously in a relationship with a Formula One team when they sponsored Jaguar. The same reports also suggest the team name will change entirely to Mercedes, while Mobil 1 will work with both Brawn and McLaren.
OK, sounds sort-of-plausible. Brawn seems to have a bit of leverage here in Britain - have seen some caps around.
BTW, where do you get these reports? It's not the DYI journalism, is it?
Of course not. We're talking about the man who rubbished the Toyota withdrawl story the day before it actually happened!
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 00:45
by Captain Hammer
CarlosFerreira wrote:BTW, where do you get these reports? It's not the DYI journalism, is it?
Orange and Mercedes arrangement comes from James Allen's blog. Becks and bwin from lebug, an unofficial Brawn GP Twitter feed. I don't know his relationship to the team.
kostas22 wrote:Of course not. We're talking about the man who rubbished the Toyota withdrawl story the day before it actually happened!
I did not rubbish them. I said I wasn't in the business of beliving rampant speculation until Toyota actually confirmed it.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 03:23
by Ross Prawn
Captain Hammer wrote:CarlosFerreira wrote:BTW, where do you get these reports? It's not the DYI journalism, is it?
Orange and Mercedes arrangement comes from James Allen's blog. Becks and bwin from lebug, an unofficial Brawn GP Twitter feed. I don't know his relationship to the team.
kostas22 wrote:Of course not. We're talking about the man who rubbished the Toyota withdrawl story the day before it actually happened!
I did not rubbish them. I said I wasn't in the business of beliving rampant speculation until Toyota actually confirmed it.
You are Max!! Just admit you got it wrong!!!! Otherwise I will withdraw my support for you in the 'best informed' and 'most obsessed' categories in the the 2009 awards threads.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 06:33
by Captain Hammer
Ross Prawn wrote:You are Max!! Just admit you got it wrong!!!! Otherwise I will withdraw my support for you in the 'best informed' and 'most obsessed' categories in the the 2009 awards threads.
This isn't the first time I've been accused of being Max. I can prove that I'm not, though: I use my head.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 08:32
by Paul Hayes
I think it would be a mad and bizarre decision for Button to leave Brawn, but with a feeling of due dread it seems to me to be increasingly likely to happen.
The only thing that would almost make it worth it would be the amusement of the British press wetting themselves with excitement over a Button-Hamilton line-up at McLaren.
But it would be the wrong choice for Button. I don't see him as a good fit there. He might win a race or two with them, but Brawn seem to be on the up with the increased Mercedes backing, and if he did make this move it would have more than a touch of the Damon Hills to it.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 09:36
by Captain Hammer
Don't forget, Paul: Raikkonen's people were also seen at Woking on the same day. Or at least the day after. Button's presence seems to be to scare Raikkonen into moving. He's said McLaren is the only team he wants to drive for.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 12:49
by DemocalypseNow
What I don't believe about the Orange tieup, is that Mercedes is apparently investing a large amount of money into Brawn, yet they are currently partnered with rivals Vodafone with McLaren?
Maybe, like Santander being a precursor to Alonso moving to Ferrari, this is the beginning of the end for McLaren-Mercedes?
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 13:28
by Captain Hammer
kostas22 wrote:What I don't believe about the Orange tieup, is that Mercedes is apparently investing a large amount of money into Brawn, yet they are currently partnered with rivals Vodafone with McLaren?
Simple: they're going from one to the other, so instead of doing it all in one go, they do it gradually. It's a basic tenement of management theory: you introduce change in increments.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 13:45
by mario
Paul Hayes wrote:I think it would be a mad and bizarre decision for Button to leave Brawn, but with a feeling of due dread it seems to me to be increasingly likely to happen.
The only thing that would almost make it worth it would be the amusement of the British press wetting themselves with excitement over a Button-Hamilton line-up at McLaren.
But it would be the wrong choice for Button. I don't see him as a good fit there. He might win a race or two with them, but Brawn seem to be on the up with the increased Mercedes backing, and if he did make this move it would have more than a touch of the Damon Hills to it.
Well, I can see some logic in the position that Button is taking. Firstly, the fact that Mclaren were able to develop the 2009 car very rapidly once they sorted out the problems with the weight distribution demonstates that they are still a force to be reckoned with.
Secondly, although Mercedes are rumoured to be considering buying out Brawn and turning it into a Mercedes works team, they still have a commercial agreement with Mclaren for a few years yet, so Mclaren will still be receiving considerable assistance from Mercedes until then. And given that the financial penalty for breaking the contract early would be very large, I can't see Mercedes wanting to split just yet.
Also, nobody seems to have factored in the effects of the change in regulations for next year. The DDD advantage will be nullified, now everybody knows about it, and will have integrated it from the start. There is also the change in tyres - which are not only thinner, but rumoured to be of a stiffer construction - coupled to the refuelling ban, and various tweaks to flow conditioning devices will shake things up again. Also, the fact that some teams switched development efforts to 2010 early (Ferrari perhaps may have been the most prominent, but Mclaren were rumoured to have been testing parts for 2010 in some free practise sessions) means that their competitive advantage will hav been cut back.
Yes, I know that the above is speculation, but it is reasonable to assume that there is no guarantee that Brawn will be competitive enough for Button to defend his title - and that there is a chance that Mclaren could have caught up with and have overtaken the Brawn team's efforts. Besides, it is said that Mercedes want to push Brawn into having a German driver (for their advertising) - what's to say that Button would rather leave of his own accord then be pushed out by advertising money?
And perhaps another pertinent question to ask is what is the situation from Mclaren's point of view? They would be getting a driver who, although perhaps not as fast as Hamilton is, is a consistant driver who would be picking up points through the season - and that would mean that they could put in a more consistant challenge for the constructors title (which is where Heikki has really failed to pull his weight in the last few seasons). Alternatively, and this is what I suspect is more likely to be going on, is that Mclaren are angling for a slightly bigger catch in Kimi - and by holding talks with Button, they are giving themselves more leverage by implying to Kimi that he is replaceable...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 17:31
by CarlosFerreira
The Button people are talking the issue up.
http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/80155Essentially, it says Button himself had a meeting at McLaren (described as "a quick hello"), and then Butt's manager, Mr Goddard says they've already made a lot of concessions to Brawn, and so are (and have been) talking around.
Personally, I think McLaren and Button are using each other to show their preferred partners (Raikkonen and Brawn, respectively) they have alternatives. What's more, I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good), and all this shenanigan is probably making Brawn think he can get better if he shops around, especially now that Mercedes seems to becking him up all the way.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 17:51
by DemocalypseNow
CarlosFerreira wrote:I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good)
Finally! Someone is seeing it from my perspective...
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 18:02
by CarlosFerreira
kostas22 wrote:CarlosFerreira wrote:I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good)
Finally! Someone is seeing it from my perspective...
Yeah, I decided to cut Button some slack after he won the Championship, but that's done and dusted.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 20:11
by Salamander
CarlosFerreira wrote:I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good)
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one - though on raw talent and pace, I rate Kovy and Button at about the same, Jenson is infinitely better at not stuffing up his chances. He'd get a decent swag of points, though due to McLaren's Lewis-centered nature, I doubt we'd see the best of Jenson.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 20:16
by fjackdaw
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:CarlosFerreira wrote:I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good)
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one - though on raw talent and pace, I rate Kovy and Button at about the same, Jenson is infinitely better at not stuffing up his chances. He'd get a decent swag of points, though due to McLaren's Lewis-centered nature, I doubt we'd see the best of Jenson.
I think this "Button no better than Kovalainen" stuff is all nonsense, frankly. People are forgetting how good Button was at the start of his career... he's been ground down by bad machines since, but was one of the top few drivers for a while. The first time Button was in a top-flight car, he won the championship with it, and in pretty convincing style. HK has spent two years in a McLaren, and only won the race he did because Massa broke down at the last minute.
You don't win the championship by being crap.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 22:00
by DemocalypseNow
fjackdaw wrote:BlindCaveSalamander wrote:CarlosFerreira wrote:I believe McLaren would have to be galacticaly stupid to sign Button up (he'd make Kovalainen look good)
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one - though on raw talent and pace, I rate Kovy and Button at about the same, Jenson is infinitely better at not stuffing up his chances. He'd get a decent swag of points, though due to McLaren's Lewis-centered nature, I doubt we'd see the best of Jenson.
I think this "Button no better than Kovalainen" stuff is all nonsense, frankly. People are forgetting how good Button was at the start of his career... he's been ground down by bad machines since, but was one of the top few drivers for a while. The first time Button was in a top-flight car, he won the championship with it, and in pretty convincing style. HK has spent two years in a McLaren, and only won the race he did because Massa broke down at the last minute.
You don't win the championship by being crap.
Nope, but you can win championships by being mediocre in the best car by far of the year. The car won him those 6 races when they had a huge advantage over everybody, and once the others had caught up he screwed himself with the expected mediocre performances .
Next year I shall call him Jenson "Midfield Maestro" Button. Because thats where he'll be spending all ther races in.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 23:06
by Salamander
kostas22 wrote:Nope, but you can win championships by being mediocre in the best car by far of the year. The car won him those 6 races when they had a huge advantage over everybody, and once the others had caught up he screwed himself with the expected mediocre performances .
Next year I shall call him Jenson "Midfield Maestro" Button. Because thats where he'll be spending all ther races in.
Jenson won in the best car, yes, but from the British Grand Prix onwards, they were either 2nd or 3rd best. I also don't understand what you mean by, "once the others had caught up he screwed himself with the expected mediocre performances ." If Button had screwed himself, how is he still WDC? And what do you call his races in Brazil, or Abu Dhabi?
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 14 Nov 2009, 23:11
by DemocalypseNow
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:kostas22 wrote:Nope, but you can win championships by being mediocre in the best car by far of the year. The car won him those 6 races when they had a huge advantage over everybody, and once the others had caught up he screwed himself with the expected mediocre performances .
Next year I shall call him Jenson "Midfield Maestro" Button. Because thats where he'll be spending all ther races in.
Jenson won in the best car, yes, but from the British Grand Prix onwards, they were either 2nd or 3rd best. I also don't understand what you mean by, "once the others had caught up he screwed himself with the expected mediocre performances ." If Button had screwed himself, how is he still WDC? And what do you call his races in Brazil, or Abu Dhabi?
He was champion because everybody else was too busy crashing into stuff or having mechanical failures to chase him
The difference was he lost points to Vettel and Rubens since Turkey despite their various failures/crashes thanks to being dead slow in a car that should have at least been on the podium at every race. Even Raikkonen outscored him since then in a car widely acclaimed as 'a complete dog'. When was saw Fisi driving it we knew Kimi was absolutely on it in the second half of the season.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 15 Nov 2009, 00:49
by fjackdaw
I've always rated Jenson as being one of the top five drivers out there, even when he wasn't in a car that could do him justice. There are very few drivers who'll shine in bad cars - look at Hamilton and Raikkonen in the first half of the year, they were all over the place in real dogs. Hamilton became extremely despondent and demoralised.
The problem is that people are tricked by the sequence of events. Button started off in the class of the field, and ended the season in a car a little way off some of the others - therefore he seems mediocre. Hamilton and Raikkonen started the season faffing around near the back, but ended the season (at least in Hamilton's case) in some the best cars in the field, getting good results. Therefore they seem great. It's all psychology.
I don't really see the difference between Hamilton and Button. Hamilton was awful when his car was awful, and brilliant when his car was brilliant. So was Button. Where's the difference?
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 15 Nov 2009, 02:43
by Cynon
The difference? One is a media darling who has never been with a bad car or had many opportunities to make himself look like he's less talented than he is -- been a de facto #1 driver his whole career, and the other has a career with crap machinery.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 15 Nov 2009, 11:18
by fjackdaw
Cynon wrote:The difference? One is a media darling who has never been with a bad car or had many opportunities to make himself look like he's less talented than he is -- been a de facto #1 driver his whole career, and the other has a career with crap machinery.
Exactly! My point entirely. And the three combined years both had the best cars in the field, they either won or came within a point of the championship. Only, Button won his championship after spending just half a season in the best car.
Hamilton gets called an unworthy champion because he went straight into the best car and never had to struggle (hardly his fault); Button gets called an unworthy champion because he's never previously been in the best car and has spent his career up till now struggling. Sometimes you just can't win.
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 15 Nov 2009, 11:33
by CarlosFerreira
fjackdaw wrote:Button gets called an unworthy champion because he's never previously been in the best car and has spent his career up till now struggling. Sometimes you just can't win.
Sorry, no. Button is not an unworthy Champion, he wrapped this one up. He had at least two brilliant races - Spain and Monaco - and made enough to win 4 others, be mostly on the points and win the thing.
He is not, however, the fastest or most capable driver out there; Hamilton, Rosberg and Vettel are. In his good days, when he he feels he has a good enough car underneath him, Jenson is a winner, but when he's not sure he's not a fighter. Personally I rank him with DC: occasional race winner.
[running for the hills]Damon Hill was a better driver than Button, and a much better team player.[/running for the hills]
Re: Both Brawn GP Seats May Be Changed
Posted: 15 Nov 2009, 11:37
by Ross Prawn
I think Jenson's a top driver, but maybe not an all time great. For those who still winge on that 'its not fair because he the best car', then one of the qualities of top drivers is that when they are given the best car they make use of it. And Jenson did exactly this to great effect in the first six races of the season. Not every driver can do this, look at Coulthard or Fisicella who failed to make the best of their oportunities at Mclaren and Renault, or Kovalinen this year. Or indeed Webber and Vettel, who did not fully capitalise on having the best car in the second half of the season.
Ross Brawn has revealed that Brawn turned down development of the 2009 car about mid season to ensure enough attention was put into 2010. So Jenson's less than stellar performances in the second half of the season had other causes.
In comparing Jenson to Lewis or Kimi then you have to take into account differences in driving style. Jenson is fast by being very smooth and gentle with his car. The problem with this approach is that it requires a perfectly set up car, and if Jenson doesn't get this he finds it difficult to compensate. In comparison, Lewis and KImi have a more aggressive driving style, and are likely to be less sensitive to nuances in car set-up. So they will be better able to hustle some performance out of a dog. Its difficult to say one style is better than another, there are just different.
Of course if Jenson goes to McLaren then he may suffer because his style is different to that of Lewis. And the McLaren will be built to suit Lewis.