Grand Prix Rejects

East Londoner wrote:Gutierrez, please give your seat to #GiedoVanDerGod. He deserves it so much more than you do.

To be fair to Gutierrez, Sauber have now come out and admitted that the brake by wire system on Gutierrez's car was defective - with that in mind, at least some of the time gap between himself and Sutil seems to be down to a malfunctioning car.

Jocke1 wrote:

i SO second this.

mario wrote: And that is what might especially hurt for Vettel - whilst normally he is the one used to upstaging his rivals with a major upset, instead this time around he couldn't improve whilst Ricciardo made major advances. The fact that it came in wet conditions too - conditions where Vettel had made a name for himself as a competitive driver - might make it all the slightly more galling for him. If Vettel struggles for a few more races, I can see him coming under increasing pressure from a press that may start questioning his achievements.

To be fair, Vettel is quoted as stating Ricciardo is beating him fair and square, which is about as magnanimous as its likely to get, but fair play to him for that. Im hoping this season many of the idiotic haters from previous seasons will see he's actually a decent guy.

The only reason people turned to haters was because he did have some extremely childish moments that overshadowed his great ones such as his Top Gear interview

CoopsII wrote:

mario wrote: And that is what might especially hurt for Vettel - whilst normally he is the one used to upstaging his rivals with a major upset, instead this time around he couldn't improve whilst Ricciardo made major advances. The fact that it came in wet conditions too - conditions where Vettel had made a name for himself as a competitive driver - might make it all the slightly more galling for him. If Vettel struggles for a few more races, I can see him coming under increasing pressure from a press that may start questioning his achievements.

To be fair, Vettel is quoted as stating Ricciardo is beating him fair and square, which is about as magnanimous as its likely to get, but fair play to him for that. Im hoping this season many of the idiotic haters from previous seasons will see he's actually a decent guy.

Considering there's been very little gloating surrounding Vettel's current trouncing by his younger teammate from his critics, do you think you could refrain from labelling anyone who dares to dislike Vettel's personality as 'idiotic'?

SgtPepper wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

mario wrote: And that is what might especially hurt for Vettel - whilst normally he is the one used to upstaging his rivals with a major upset, instead this time around he couldn't improve whilst Ricciardo made major advances. The fact that it came in wet conditions too - conditions where Vettel had made a name for himself as a competitive driver - might make it all the slightly more galling for him. If Vettel struggles for a few more races, I can see him coming under increasing pressure from a press that may start questioning his achievements.

To be fair, Vettel is quoted as stating Ricciardo is beating him fair and square, which is about as magnanimous as its likely to get, but fair play to him for that. Im hoping this season many of the idiotic haters from previous seasons will see he's actually a decent guy.

Considering there's been very little gloating surrounding Vettel's current trouncing by his younger teammate from his critics, do you think you could refrain from labelling anyone who dares to dislike Vettel's personality as 'idiotic'?

The way that I read his comments, I think that he meant to criticise some of the more extreme commentators on Vettel (some of whom did come out with absurd criticisms of Vettel) rather than implying that all critics of Vettel were idiots.

As you say, Vettel's tone in the press at the moment is rather modest and is complimentary of Ricciardo's performance - still, I can't imagine that he is best pleased about the situation.

SgtPepper wrote:Considering there's been very little gloating surrounding Vettel's current trouncing by his younger teammate from his critics, do you think you could refrain from labelling anyone who dares to dislike Vettel's personality as 'idiotic'?

Hah! Im really getting it in the neck today, I feel like DonTirri. Anyway, in a word 'no' because the specific haters I had in mind were the sort of people who boo'd him on the podium many times last season.

Right, next?

CoopsII wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:Considering there's been very little gloating surrounding Vettel's current trouncing by his younger teammate from his critics, do you think you could refrain from labelling anyone who dares to dislike Vettel's personality as 'idiotic'?

Hah! Im really getting it in the neck today, I feel like DonTirri. Anyway, in a word 'no' because the specific haters I had in mind were the sort of people who boo'd him on the podium many times last season.

Right, next?

Considering I was one of those in the crowds at Silverstone cheering when his car stopped, I consider myself 'that sort of person,' but whatever. I'm not actually offended, more just trying to show that you can't deleniate, generalise or dismiss a section of the fanbase quite so readily purely because they may differ with either your opinion, or way of expressing it.

SgtPepper wrote:Considering I was one of those in the crowds at Silverstone cheering when his car stopped, I consider myself 'that sort of person,' but whatever. I'm not actually offended, more just trying to show that you can't deleniate, generalise or dismiss a section of the fanbase quite so readily purely because they may differ with either your opinion, or way of expressing it.

Im fine with the cheering as I was when the Germans cheered Hill tanking out at Hockenheim in '96. As you've linked the booing and cheering, not me, may I ask if you approved of Vettel being boo'd?

EDIT: as pedantry appears to be on the rise Id better amend my comment by stating it possibly wasnt just Germans who cheered Hills demise, it couldve been fans of any nationality and to generalise so was remiss.

CoopsII wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:Considering I was one of those in the crowds at Silverstone cheering when his car stopped, I consider myself 'that sort of person,' but whatever. I'm not actually offended, more just trying to show that you can't deleniate, generalise or dismiss a section of the fanbase quite so readily purely because they may differ with either your opinion, or way of expressing it.

Im fine with the cheering as I was when the Germans cheered Hill tanking out at Hockenheim in '96. As you've linked the booing and cheering, not me, may I ask if you approved of Vettel being boo'd?

Yes I did, and it's for a similar reason I wrote that long article on Coulthard, and why my respect of Crofty and Kravitz has increased exponentially in recent years. We all know the F1 world is a small one, and quite a lot of the time I really like that - we see familar faces knocking about the paddock, former drivers commentating or being involved in teams, it gives a great sense of continuity and we can familiarise ourselves with differing personalities (which makes it all the more interesting when there is conflict, as the contrast gives greater depth). The problem is that it also has an occasional tendency to close ranks, and narrow its own gaze. Alongside this drivers, teams or commentators having a vested interest in masking their opinions because treading on toes is both rude and going to get you nowhere - if you criticise a driver or team, why would they want to invite you back for another interview? This is one of the issues that really became apparent through the Vettel domination years, the paddock generaly held ranks perpetually insisting we accept Vettel's greatness (apart from the odd comment by Hamilton or Alonso, and the 2012 driver of the year vote), whereas the fanbase was very clearly split down the middle.

Now when it came to the booing, the F1 world was finally forced to realise, and more importantly acknowledge that perhaps something was awry within the fanbase - commentators were grasping at a variety of explanations to try explain it - whether it was the events in Malaysia, weariness of one team's dominance, or simply the doubt concerning Vettel's 'greatness' overall, these were finally forced out into the open whereas before we cannot know if the F1 world was too cosseted to be aware of them, or too driven by vested interests to voice them. Admittedly there was a concerted PR effort by Red Bull to try give Vettel a more likeable face which did manage to alleviate and diffuse much of the tension eventually, but the point is that the issues that had been bubbling under the surface was brought to light, despite the best efforts of those involved on the contrary.


Edit - For the record I found the booing of Hill in Germany disgusting, because as far as I can tell Hill was always the consumate sportsman, and the cheering of Schumacher crashing in '99 disgusting as well, as there was a serious chance Schumacher could have been very badly injured or worse (I mean in regards to how much the fans would have known at the time of the incident.)

I think its something seperate as the dominance RBR and Vettel enjoyed is not strictly speaking something unique in F1. Mario will surely correct me if im wrong but theres never been a steady stream of abuse levelled at a driver simply for winning. Austria 2002 was for different reasons as was indy 2005. Although it might be something you'd enjoy doing I really think its beneath F1, not our thing, more a football thing. And, no, the booing didnt save F1 from itself, it just made it look a bit cheap and tawdry for a while.

SgtPepper wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:Considering I was one of those in the crowds at Silverstone cheering when his car stopped, I consider myself 'that sort of person,' but whatever. I'm not actually offended, more just trying to show that you can't deleniate, generalise or dismiss a section of the fanbase quite so readily purely because they may differ with either your opinion, or way of expressing it.

Im fine with the cheering as I was when the Germans cheered Hill tanking out at Hockenheim in '96. As you've linked the booing and cheering, not me, may I ask if you approved of Vettel being boo'd?

Yes I did, and it's for a similar reason I wrote that long article on Coulthard, and why my respect of Crofty and Kravitz has increased exponentially in recent years. We all know the F1 world is a small one, and quite a lot of the time I really like that - we see familar faces knocking about the paddock, former drivers commentating or being involved in teams, it gives a great sense of continuity and we can familiarise ourselves with differing personalities (which makes it all the more interesting when there is conflict, as the contrast gives greater depth). The problem is that it also has an occasional tendency to close ranks, and narrow its own gaze. Alongside this drivers, teams or commentators having a vested interest in masking their opinions because treading on toes is both rude and going to get you nowhere - if you criticise a driver or team, why would they want to invite you back for another interview? This is one of the issues that really became apparent through the Vettel domination years, the paddock generaly held ranks perpetually insisting we accept Vettel's greatness (apart from the odd comment by Hamilton or Alonso, and the 2012 driver of the year vote), whereas the fanbase was very clearly split down the middle.

Now when it came to the booing, the F1 world was finally forced to realise, and more importantly acknowledge that perhaps something was awry within the fanbase - commentators were grasping at a variety of explanations to try explain it - whether it was the events in Malaysia, weariness of one team's dominance, or simply the doubt concerning Vettel's 'greatness' overall, these were finally forced out into the open whereas before we cannot know if the F1 world was too cosseted to be aware of them, or too driven by vested interests to voice them. Admittedly there was a concerted PR effort by Red Bull to try give Vettel a more likeable face which did manage to alleviate and diffuse much of the tension eventually, but the point is that the issues that had been bubbling under the surface was brought to light, despite the best efforts of those involved on the contrary.


Edit - For the record I found the booing of Hill in Germany disgusting, because as far as I can tell Hill was always the consumate sportsman, and the cheering of Schumacher crashing in '99 disgusting as well, as there was a serious chance Schumacher could have been very badly injured or worse (I mean in regards to how much the fans would have known at the time of the incident.)

You're reading into things far too much.

People boo because they are jealous assholes. You think Vettel is nothing special? Your opinion is irrelevant, my opinion is irrelevant - he has four shiny trophies declaring he is the best in the world, and nothing anyone can say or do will change that.

This is how the world works. He has evidence. You have none. You can posture all you want, but you can't expect anyone to take anything you say seriously if you insist a four time world champion is a run-of-the-mill driver.

It's far less fickle than you make out. The crowd will boo anyone that dominates. Anyone. Fans' behaviour is unpredictable and inconsistent. I would boo Schumacher - but it's because he deliberately broke the rules on at least seperate occasions. I boo Juventus at football because they are proven and convicted cheaters. But I'd never condone such malice against any party that's done no wrongdoing. Because if being the best is wrong, then why are we even here?

CoopsII wrote:I think its something seperate as the dominance RBR and Vettel enjoyed is not strictly speaking something unique in F1. Mario will surely correct me if im wrong but theres never been a steady stream of abuse levelled at a driver simply for winning. Austria 2002 was for different reasons as was indy 2005. Although it might be something you'd enjoy doing I really think its beneath F1, not our thing, more a football thing. And, no, the booing didnt save F1 from itself, it just made it look a bit cheap and tawdry for a while.

I completely agree with you on all those points - I don't believe it was due to the RBR dominance, booing is for the most part beneath F1 (just as it aggrivates me greatly when fans blindly follow a particular driver purely due to nationality) and it is cheap and tawdry. But look at those two prior examples - Austria '02 and Indy '05. Both of these are times when the F1 world has really, really trodden on its own toes, the fanbase has a very legitimate grievance, and voiced it. F1 fans are generally a very respectful group of fans, so to be booed so consistently showed that there was really something amiss.

Biscione wrote:You're reading into things far too much.

People boo because they are jealous assholes. You think Vettel is nothing special? Your opinion is irrelevant, my opinion is irrelevant - he has four shiny trophies declaring he is the best in the world, and nothing anyone can say or do will change that.

This is how the world works. He has evidence. You have none. You can posture all you want, but you can't expect anyone to take anything you say seriously if you insist a four time world champion is a run-of-the-mill driver.

It's far less fickle than you make out. The crowd will boo anyone that dominates. Anyone. Fans' behaviour is unpredictable and inconsistent. I would boo Schumacher - but it's because he deliberately broke the rules on at least seperate occasions. I boo Juventus at football because they are proven and convicted cheaters. But I'd never condone such malice against any party that's done no wrongdoing. Because if being the best is wrong, then why are we even here?

I'm aware my opinion is irrelevant. However, considering Schumacher dominated far more resolutely, did far less sporting tricks than anything Vettel has ever done, was still not booed, and always respected by the entire fanbase, I really do think you're missing some degree of 'fickleness.'

Anyway let's leave this topic, opinions will forever differ due to varying perspectives and everyone just gets het up.

Grosjean in the top ten. That is all.

SgtPepper wrote:Anyway let's leave this topic, opinions will forever differ due to varying perspectives and everyone just gets het up.

Also, F1 2013 called, it wants its controversy back.

And, yeah, Grosjean. Worra battler.

CoopsII wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:Anyway let's leave this topic, opinions will forever differ due to varying perspectives and everyone just gets het up.

Also, F1 2013 called, it wants its controversy back.

And, yeah, Grosjean. Worra battler.

That is very much by the by and certainly not meant to be the focus of this thread.

As Row Man Gross-Gene rightly points out, there are many other major talking points to discuss - Grosjean's surprise entry into the top 10 is certainly one, especially given their troubled test sessions in Bahrain. It's one of those things where you feel that there is perhaps some interesting potential in the car, but with the team so persistently struggling for form due to the problems they have had, it's still a long way from finally being optimised. It can't be a reassuring sign for McLaren if even a weakened Lotus now seems to be starting to outperform them...

On another odd note, it seems that Rosberg has announced that the reason for his spin was an odd glitch with his dashboard display. It seems that the dashboard was telling him he had lost time relative to his reference lap, only for it to turn out after qualifying that the dashboard was giving him a false reading - the time had been worked out relative to a reference lap, but because Nico had taken different lines during the reference and final timed lap, he'd travelled an additional 30m.
That discrepancy in distance meant that he was mistakenly told he was two tenths down in the final sector rather than the true figure, which was six tenths up on his previous lap. Erroneously thinking he was losing time, it seems that Rosberg therefore overshot the final corner in an attempt to make up the lost time by pushing his braking to the limit (only to overdo it in the end). https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/for ... 6--f1.html

mario wrote:As Row Man Gross-Gene rightly points out, there are many other major talking points to discuss - Grosjean's surprise entry into the top 10 is certainly one, especially given their troubled test sessions in Bahrain. It's one of those things where you feel that there is perhaps some interesting potential in the car, but with the team so persistently struggling for form due to the problems they have had, it's still a long way from finally being optimised. It can't be a reassuring sign for McLaren if even a weakened Lotus now seems to be starting to outperform them...

On another odd note, it seems that Rosberg has announced that the reason for his spin was an odd glitch with his dashboard display. It seems that the dashboard was telling him he had lost time relative to his reference lap, only for it to turn out after qualifying that the dashboard was giving him a false reading - the time had been worked out relative to a reference lap, but because Nico had taken different lines during the reference and final timed lap, he'd travelled an additional 30m.
That discrepancy in distance meant that he was mistakenly told he was two tenths down in the final sector rather than the true figure, which was six tenths up on his previous lap. Erroneously thinking he was losing time, it seems that Rosberg therefore overshot the final corner in an attempt to make up the lost time by pushing his braking to the limit (only to overdo it in the end). https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/for ... 6--f1.html

Rosberg's situation is a very interesting one. I've never given much thought to how the instant displays on drivers' steering wheels work. I would've believed it was a simple matter of triggering a comparison at sector splits, no different to the kind of information available to viewers at home, but maybe it's a more nuanced and sophisticated system than that. Which, it seems, may not work properly in the wet if a driver takes different lines and travels additional distance. An example of teams being too smart for their own good, perhaps?

Apart from Grosjean's performance and Raikkonen/McLaren's struggles, there were two other stand-outs in the top ten for me. One was Hulkenberg, whilst Perez languished - once again Sergio is up and down but he is the one with Bahrain trophy. The other is Jean-Eric Vergne who once again showed he's pretty handy in the wet.

be interesting to see if Mclaren have a chance of clawing back should it remain dry, though I am not expecting high points for them

I'm hoping this one will be as good as Bahrain.

Brainless driving from Rosberg, Massa and Magnussen, all wanting to play this like 1990's BTCC!

Sutil makes it 3 retirements out of 4.

Meanwhile, Mags is stuck behind Gutierrez in 16th! Kevin, the bathplug are you doing mate?

Is it just me or is DRS proving extremely ineffective?

K-Mag may have a damaged wing after his braindead driving on lap 1

Williams pit crew REJECT OF THE RACE!!!

Kobayashi 12TH!!!!

Red Bull's downforce priority setup is killing their race

Raikkonen excellent move on Magnussen

I like CAPITAL LETTERS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS TOO!!!!

Also, I think this is setting up to be a great strategy battle.

Glad someone else appreciates them!!!!!!

It's interesting to see watch what happens between vettel and ricciardo, as well as Hamilton and rosberg with 2 versus 3 stops

Crofty: - "That'll be kilos rather than per cent won't it?"

Brundle: - "Well it's the same thing isn't it?"

Great scrap on lap 22/23 between Rosberg and Vettel

Vettel ignores the team order, Ricciardo forces his way through

There's that childish idiot we all know and love

not gaining himself fans replying like that really

I really think double DRS zones have to go, it is making passing into turn 1 way too easy because defending driver if he holds off the last zone loses too much time to defend the second zone

Romain.

Shame he's out, did excellent in qualifying and drove well in the race, deserved some points but he'll be glad to finally have the upgraded car in Spain

Max Chilton DRS on Alonso!! Sure not for position but what the hey?

"Tough luck"? So much for respecting your team, kid.

Seriously. I went out of my way to avoid mentioning that he was in the points because I didn't want to jinx it but to no avail.

Brundle has commented that Marshals are showing blue flags to drivers racing, rejectful marshalling?

Vettel really lost it at Kobayashi unlapping himself

Sebastian Vettel was overtaken by a Caterham. A fantastic milestone in Reject history.

Kobayashi is really showing why F1 has missed him, dude just doesn't give a damn about the whole 'spirit of the champion' he's just 'get out of my way!'

Kamui pulls an 'Irvine'.

Maldonado makes a clean pass on Gutierez, weather report from hell is temperatures at -27 degrees celsius

Rosberg finds staring at his fuel gauge annoying... How is he on the road then?

Shut up Brundle, don't pander to the unwashed masses. We don't want noisier cars.

Noisier cars are not necessary, it's nice to not have to worry about losing your hearing the enjoy the day.

Lap 55 of 56 - CHECKERED FLAG!!!!