Grand Prix Rejects

In no particular order:

Ericsson: I laughed. Nothing like a good slow spin into the gravel.

Red Bull: I cried. Please give the Dans a car that can at least beat Toro Rosso...

Rather than giving a countdown, I think I'll just say Marcus Ericcson gets my nomination. Threw away possible points really early in the race and with no one to blame but himself.

Red Bull deserves a mention as well. Okay, the Renault engine isn't great, but Toro Rosso beat them on merit, whilst the Red Bulls trundled around the circuit billowing clouds of brake dust every time the drivers slowed down. The chassis is not up to snuff and the way the season's going I don't see them doing better than Ferrari last year.

I also want to give a shout out to the stewards. Not for Perez's incident - that looked like a justifiable penalty, but to the penalty given to Hulkenberg. Even Kvyat himself said it was a racing incident, and really that's what it was; a racing incident. Meanwhile the incidents with Nasr and Raikkonen and who I thought was Bottas and Maldonado do not get addressed whatsoever.

McLaren also looked quite poor. I think I saw Alonso once in the points and that was because of pitstop rotations. Otherwise they were quite slow, on par with the Force Indias, which should've been higher up period. Both teams need to step up their game if they want to be competitive, but in defense of Force India, they have at least a points running car. However, Hulk and Checo's collective patience must be wearing pretty thin.

Marcus Ericsson easily - Stupid move = Funny move.

1. Ericsson: What the hell was that?!

2. Red Bull: Beaten by the Torro Rossos, and their former prodigy has to hurt real badly.

Dishonorable Mention - McLaren: It's pretty clear that Alonso made a mistake coming to them. The Manor was more reliable than both cars.

Ericsson: Epic overtake attempt.

Red Bull: Beaten by both Toro Rosso cars. That hurts.

what happened to "the stewards will be more lenient and stop handing penalties left right and center" ?! Either give a penalty to Nasr or don't give a penalty to Hulk. IMO, no penalties for both

Ericsson probably did the most rejectful drive...but since that actually improved the race, I'll go with Perez.
Not because I hate his guts. But because once again he battled for position like an idiot on go-karts. (That just happens to be the reason why I hate him)

lgaquino wrote:Ericsson probably did the most rejectful drive...but since that actually improved the race, I'll go with Perez.
Not because I hate his guts. But because once again he battled for position like an idiot on go-karts. (That just happens to be the reason why I hate him)

What was he supposed to do, just let Grosjean take the racing line from him? There's a reason nobody ever passes at that corner.

Salamander wrote:

lgaquino wrote:Ericsson probably did the most rejectful drive...but since that actually improved the race, I'll go with Perez.
Not because I hate his guts. But because once again he battled for position like an idiot on go-karts. (That just happens to be the reason why I hate him)

What was he supposed to do, just let Grosjean take the racing line from him? There's a reason nobody ever passes at that corner.

you can position yourself beforehand not to allow the move to take place, you can make the opponent abort the move in various ways (ie: doing a wider line);
Once Grosjean (which had lot more speed turning in) was already side-by-side and had deserved his space on the outside, yes..Perez should've properly conceded, imo
He said he couldn't avoid the crash and had nowhere left to go. I disagree, there were several options..

Just to clarify, crashing is part of racing. I have no problems with that. My issue with him is that he seems unable to fight without making contact.

lgaquino wrote:Once Grosjean (which had lot more speed turning in) was already side-by-side and had deserved his space on the outside, yes..Perez should've properly conceded, imo

Yeah, sorry, but I disagree entirely with that notion. You can't just expect the guy on your inside to give way and concede the position just because you're barely ahead - that's not racing to me. Besides, this isn't the first time Grosjean's tried to go around the outside in a corner where you can't really do that.

lgaquino wrote:you can position yourself beforehand not to allow the move to take place, you can make the opponent abort the move in various ways (ie: doing a wider line);
Once Grosjean (which had lot more speed turning in) was already side-by-side and had deserved his space on the outside, yes..Perez should've properly conceded, imo
He said he couldn't avoid the crash and had nowhere left to go. I disagree, there were several options..

Salamander wrote:Yeah, sorry, but I disagree entirely with that notion. You can't just expect the guy on your inside to give way and concede the position just because you're barely ahead - that's not racing to me. Besides, this isn't the first time Grosjean's tried to go around the outside in a corner where you can't really do that.

I agree with Igaquino on this one, Grosjean had signalled his intentions plenty early enough, and was clearly committed round the outside, it was for Perez to concede in that situation.

Regarding the bolded bit, you could have said the same about 130R before the famous Alonso-Schumi move in 2005. Passes are possible in those types of places - however Perez is too much of a boneheaded driver to trust in those situations, and I'm sure Romain will note that for future reference.

Salamander wrote:

lgaquino wrote:Once Grosjean (which had lot more speed turning in) was already side-by-side and had deserved his space on the outside, yes..Perez should've properly conceded, imo

Yeah, sorry, but I disagree entirely with that notion. You can't just expect the guy on your inside to give way and concede the position just because you're barely ahead - that's not racing to me. Besides, this isn't the first time Grosjean's tried to go around the outside in a corner where you can't really do that.

I agree with Salamander. I personally thought Grosjean would have been very lucky to get away with that move. It's not an overtaking corner, it's got a much tighter angle than Turn 5, where Bottas made his moves. Grosjean was being too optimistic there. What was Perez to do, brake at a fast corner? When he hadn't left too much room for RoGro, the Frenchman should have taken the hint, but he didn't pull out and Perez did what Grosjean did: didn't give up his space.

Racing incident at best.

hehe a racing incident is what you get when neither gives up the place. and yet, a penalty was given.

lgaquino wrote:hehe a racing incident is what you get when neither gives up the place. and yet, a penalty was given.

Yes, and I think that was my point, that the stewards erred.

Red Bull - Having been lapped by Vettel is pretty self-explaining for their momentum.

craigwilson wrote:Regarding the bolded bit, you could have said the same about 130R before the famous Alonso-Schumi move in 2005. Passes are possible in those types of places - however Perez is too much of a boneheaded driver to trust in those situations, and I'm sure Romain will note that for future reference.

130R is similar, but the racing line leads back to the left, to get in position for the Casio Triangle. Here, the racing line remains on the kerb as the track immediately bends back to the right, so the line remains partly over the kerb. It's like overtaking at that hairpin at Monaco (got no idea what they call it these days) - sure, you can do it, but only if the other driver lets you.

the accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9BRtW3kst0

watching it again, I can see that grosjean wasn't that much ahead at turn in. however, they were side by side for much of the corner and, by the exit, grosjean was almost fully ahead.
Perez didn't have to give up the position coming in, of course, but by that time they came out he had already lost it and had the responsibility not to crash into grosjean..

lgaquino wrote:the accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9BRtW3kst0

watching it again, I can see that grosjean wasn't that much ahead at turn in. however, they were side by side for much of the corner and, by the exit, grosjean was almost fully ahead.
Perez didn't have to give up the position coming in, of course, but by that time they came out he had already lost it and had the responsibility not to crash into grosjean..

Going by the line they were both taking, it's likely that Grosjean would've gone entirely off the circuit and would've had to give the place back anyway.

Marcus Ericsson - That was always going to be hopeless

I watched Ted's post race notebook last night and he started next to a car under a cover. He said this is the Sauber of Ericsson which did not finish the race and the reason was due to an engine problem. So, was the spin due to an engine problem (not apparent by the spinning wheels trying to get back on track) or was it as we all have thought, due to a wildly optimistic move?

BigG80 wrote:I watched Ted's post race notebook last night and he started next to a car under a cover. He said this is the Sauber of Ericsson which did not finish the race and the reason was due to an engine problem. So, was the spin due to an engine problem (not apparent by the spinning wheels trying to get back on track) or was it as we all have thought, due to a wildly optimistic move?

I don't really understand where he got this from. Giampaolo Dall'Ara, Sauber's chief engineer, said this post-race;

On the technical side it was another flawless afternoon without any noteworthy issues, which is the positive we can take out of this race.

That doesn't seem consistent with Ericsson having suffered any kind of engine problem.

I'm fairly sure that Ted was mistaken but I thought it was interesting enough to bring up on the forum.

I mean I don't think I've ever heard of a TV journalist getting a fact wrong about F1 before.

Biscione wrote:

BigG80 wrote:I watched Ted's post race notebook last night and he started next to a car under a cover. He said this is the Sauber of Ericsson which did not finish the race and the reason was due to an engine problem. So, was the spin due to an engine problem (not apparent by the spinning wheels trying to get back on track) or was it as we all have thought, due to a wildly optimistic move?

I don't really understand where he got this from. Giampaolo Dall'Ara, Sauber's chief engineer, said this post-race;

On the technical side it was another flawless afternoon without any noteworthy issues, which is the positive we can take out of this race.

That doesn't seem consistent with Ericsson having suffered any kind of engine problem.

Even Ericsson on Twitter said it was his fault.

Ericsson, obviously.
but also Force India. With that engine they should be strong midfielders at the very least.

Ericsson's spin actually made the race interesting! So half ROTR and half IIDOTR for me