Grand Prix Rejects

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

Ed24 wrote:Well we know Sutil and Senna have some money behind them, so they would be logical choices to replace Trulli should they be displaced from their current teams.

I doubt Senna would move to Caterham, considering he's driving for Renault this year. Maybe Sutil, but I'd much rather see a new driver get the seat, such as Sam Bird, Wickens or van der Garde.

He may not choose to move teams, but Renault may well choose Grosjean ahead of him, not to mention the outside chance of Kubica.

My line up (HRT is based on their young driver testers), and brackets are reserve drivers/ friday testers.

Red Bull:
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
(Jean-Eric Vergne)

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa
(Jules Bianchi)

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button
(Pedro de la Rosa)

Mercedes:
Michael Schumacher
Nico Rosberg
(Sam Bird)

Renault:
Romain Grosjean
Vitaly Petrov
(Jerome d'Ambrosio)

Williams:
Valterri Bottas
Pastor Maldonado

Force India:
Paul di Resta
Nico Hulkenberg

Sauber:
Kamui Kobayashi
Sergio Perez
(Esteban Gutierrez)

Toro Rosso:
Sebastien Buemi
Daniel Ricciardo
(Jean-Eric Vergne)

Caterham:
Heikki Kovalainen
Adrian Sutil
(Alexander Rossi)

HRT:
Jan Charouz
Dani Clos

Virgin:
Timo Glock
Charles Pic
(Robert Wickens)

I reckon we will see far more teams giving Friday tester roles; particuarly Rossi, Wickens, Vergne and d'Ambrosio.

Giedo van de Gaarde to visit Williams factory tommorow, according to Twitter

jpm wrote:Giedo van de Gaarde to visit Williams factory tommorow, according to Twitter

This could mean any number of things;
Valtteri Bottas is being promoted to a race seat
GvdG has cash and will jump straight into a race seat
Raikkonen has (sensibly) ended talks with Williams and they are hastily looking for drivers.

Which is most likely, I have no clue. Possibly the second, he could replace Maldonado in that case.

jpm wrote:My line up (HRT is based on their young driver testers), and brackets are reserve drivers/ friday testers.

Red Bull:
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
(Jean-Eric Vergne)

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa
(Jules Bianchi)

McLaren:
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button
(Pedro de la Rosa)

Mercedes:
Michael Schumacher
Nico Rosberg
(Sam Bird)

Renault:
Romain Grosjean
Vitaly Petrov
(Jerome d'Ambrosio)

Williams:
Valterri Bottas
Pastor Maldonado

Force India:
Paul di Resta
Nico Hulkenberg

Sauber:
Kamui Kobayashi
Sergio Perez
(Esteban Gutierrez)

Toro Rosso:
Sebastien Buemi
Daniel Ricciardo
(Jean-Eric Vergne)

Caterham:
Heikki Kovalainen
Adrian Sutil
(Alexander Rossi)

HRT:
Jan Charouz
Dani Clos

Virgin:
Timo Glock
Charles Pic
(Robert Wickens)

I reckon we will see far more teams giving Friday tester roles; particuarly Rossi, Wickens, Vergne and d'Ambrosio.

Wot no Algesuari?

kostas22 wrote:GvdG has cash and will jump straight into a race seat

Well, he has cash and from what I know his sponsor McGregor is involved in Williams as sponsors and have, according to rumours, pushed for a race seat for van der Garde. That means, Maldonado might not be as safe as one might think. If McGregor offers enough cash, Williams might ditch the not quite as safe money from Maldonado and insert van der Garde in the seat.

Klon wrote:

kostas22 wrote:GvdG has cash and will jump straight into a race seat

Well, he has cash and from what I know his sponsor McGregor is involved in Williams as sponsors and have, according to rumours, pushed for a race seat for van der Garde. That means, Maldonado might not be as safe as one might think. If McGregor offers enough cash, Williams might ditch the not quite as safe money from Maldonado and insert van der Garde in the seat.

Which makes Williams' 2012 theoretical lineup make a bit more sense, Sutil-van der Garde sounds far more realistic for a team in dire straits than Raikkonen - Sutil. Mallya said he would make a driver announcement before Abu Dhabi I believe but that has failed to materialise, so you have to ponder if Sutil is already looking to get a contract signed elsewhere.

Klon wrote:

kostas22 wrote:GvdG has cash and will jump straight into a race seat

Well, he has cash and from what I know his sponsor McGregor is involved in Williams as sponsors and have, according to rumours, pushed for a race seat for van der Garde. That means, Maldonado might not be as safe as one might think. If McGregor offers enough cash, Williams might ditch the not quite as safe money from Maldonado and insert van der Garde in the seat.

Hum...Ditching a so-so pay-driver for one that is worse (according to GP2 results) only because the latter has a more assured cash flow would represent a new low for Williams.

kostas22 wrote:Which makes Williams' 2012 theoretical lineup make a bit more sense, Sutil-van der Garde sounds far more realistic for a team in dire straits than Raikkonen - Sutil. Mallya said he would make a driver announcement before Abu Dhabi I believe but that has failed to materialise, so you have to ponder if Sutil is already looking to get a contract signed elsewhere.

An even better line-up would be Maldonado - van der Garde. Lot's of cash for Williams development.

But absolutely no capability in developing the car.

I think it would make sense to switch Maldonado for van der Garde, whilst Pastor has shown Rubens up a bit this year, he hasn't been that great and certainly nothing like Hulkenberg last year. Especially if his Venezuelan money becomes insecure, then what's the reason for him being there? Rather have a driver who's cash is secure and reliable than one who's isn't.

I'd like to see Bottas given a chance though, he's done some pretty decent times over the past couple of days in Abu Dhabi.

Razia wants bigger role in Caterham.

Is it just me or do you get the feeling that he might be the one who will make the winning bid for Jarno's seat?

Wizzie wrote:Razia wants bigger role in Caterham.

Is it just me or do you get the feeling that he might be the one who will make the winning bid for Jarno's seat?

Especially considering that Karun Chandhok has been very quiet recently and Charles Pic's expected test with Lotus didn't materialise... That said, I believe Razia needs another year in GP2, or maybe a few more test sessions on Fridays. I believe that Rossi would be the more logical choice, espeicllay to appeal to the American market.

Wizzie wrote:Razia wants bigger role in Caterham.

Is it just me or do you get the feeling that he might be the one who will make the winning bid for Jarno's seat?

Well it looks like we might be moving back to less talented pay-drivers since a few names, which I think belong to this category, have been cropping up from time to time. Razia's time in Europe have been underwhelming to say the least. His best result was 3rd in a series called Euroseries 3000 and on a year where only 6 drivers did the whole season. The most prominent name that year is Pastor Maldonado who only did 2 races, wining in the first and retiring in the second. Even Johnny Cecotto, Jr grabbed a third place in one of the 2 races he made there on that same year. And Cecotto only has 4 wins in his open-wheel career, all of them in the German F3 Championship, which is a formula that was won on 2006 by Ho-Pin Tung, a year where Cecotto also won a race. That is 4 wins in 138 races. Don't get me wrong, I am all for it. I was just stating a fact. Next up, less professional teams!

By the way and just for the record, Razia has 127 races in Europe and a total of 8 wins.

jpm wrote:I believe Razia needs another year in GP2, or maybe a few more test sessions on Fridays. I believe that Rossi would be the more logical choice, espeicllay to appeal to the American market.

Rossi needs a run in GP2. His results haven't been overwhelming the way Robert Wickens' have been.

Rossi fared very well in 3.5 series this year (top rookie), and beat some very highly regarded names (Albert Costa, the second best Spanish driver outside of F1 - Roberto Merhi FTW , Daniel Ricciardo - although he missed 2 rounds- and Kevin Korjus, who WILL be the first Estonian in F1) and had a good GP3 season in 2010.

Razia, well he's not that great to be honest. I really don't see why Fernandes has set his sights so low for their driver development scheme, especially considering that Gravity have left a few star names off their list (they currently have Alexander Sims, Marco Wittman, Romain Grosjean, Jerome d'Ambrosio,and Christian Vietoris)

Just for comparison, Rossi has 53 races in Europe and 8 wins.

Elsewhere ...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96286

Valtteri Bottas is "ready" for Formula 1, and he could step up "if he did an impressive job during his outings for the outfit this week".

Meanwhile ...

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7309749/Parr-amused-by-Kimi-tittle-tattle

Adam Parr is "amused" by talk of Raikkonen joining the team, calling some of the stories "absolute drivel on all fronts".

Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

fjackdaw wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

To be brutally honest, though, a lot of his criticism of the team is justified - by Renault's own admission their development rate this year has been very poor, with the front exiting exhaust proving to be a dead end, their attempts at a rearward facing exhaust - for which they used up a day of valuable straight line testing - were scrapped after a not inconsiderably amount of effort had gone into it and their failed Singapore upgrade package that caused major cooling problems are the most immediate failed updates that come to mind.

Also, he's right that their pit stops have not been the slickest this year either - the article published a few weeks ago on pitstop times showed that Renault were around a second off the pace of Red Bull and Mercedes - and considering how Renault were battling with Mercedes at the beginning of the year for 4th in the WCC, losing a second per stop adds up over a race distance. And their strategies have been rather strange in the last few races - why have they twice started Bruno Senna on the hard tyre and stopped him after a lap or two to go onto the softs? Yes, it means that he can run the rest of the race in the soft tyres, but on the other hand he has to sacrifice track position at venues where overtaking is not always easy.

Mind you, the comments that are closest to the bone are those about Boullier's attitude towards his drivers, and his reference to how both he and Heidfeld were treated earlier in the season as their competitiveness dropped off, coupled to the unsubtle reference to Boullier turfing Heidfeld out for Bruno Senna's sponsorship.

All in all, whilst his tone is quite harsh Petrov's criticism is pretty accurate - I just hope that he doesn't pay for his honesty the hard way...

fjackdaw wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

Not at all. A driver should have a right to speak his mind about the team. No doubt he has tried to voice his concerns within the team, and they are not listening to him. So he went public.

Captain Hammer wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

Not at all. A driver should have a right to speak his mind about the team. No doubt he has tried to voice his concerns within the team, and they are not listening to him. So he went public.

He seems to have contradicted himself there in the interview. By saying that he's not allowed to say anything bad about the team publicly, as it would breach his contract, but is saying so while he is saying that the team's development has been taking them nowhere, and that they are simply nowhere now, and not looking better for the future. If you ask me, that's borderline between constructive criticism, and straight criticism, with a little bit or fear in the mix as well.

Crazy idea here, maybe Vitaly could join Caterham for next season. His Russian funding will certainly help the team, which is on the rise now, only going forward now and always improving. Plus he brings benefits otherwise in that he may open up Caterham Cars to the Russian market, which will ultimately mean more profits for Tony Feranndes. He'll like the idea. It also gives Vitaly some more career security, as Lotus is a sinking ship really, which does not look like it has much hopes in getting back on form.

I believe some of comments may have actually been made around the weekend of the Singapore Grand Prix. If so, I doubt Renault would have been able to do anything but agree with him at the time.

Moving on, some people are claiming that PDVSA's sponsorship of Williams is illegal under Venezuelan law, which states that public money cannot be spent without government approval, and nobody seems to be able to produce the contract between PDVSA and Williams. However, a Venezuelan newspaper has published details of the contract, which reveals two very interesting details: firstly, that PDVSA are paying Williams between twenty and twenty-eight million pounds this year along (which is set to increase to somewhere around thirty million in 2012); and secondly, that PDVSA has an unprecendented level of control within the team - they can nominate a list of drivers to Williams (which must be done by October 15), and Williams are obligated to consider them when assessing their driver line-up for the next year (though they are not obligated to take them if they feel those drivers are not suitable).

Captain Hammer wrote:Moving on, some people are claiming that PDVSA's sponsorship of Williams is illegal under Venezuelan law, which states that public money cannot be spent without government approval, and nobody seems to be able to produce the contract between PDVSA and Williams. However, a Venezuelan newspaper has published details of the contract, which reveals two very interesting details: firstly, that PDVSA are paying Williams between twenty and twenty-eight million pounds this year along (which is set to increase to somewhere around thirty million in 2012); and secondly, that PDVSA has an unprecendented level of control within the team - they can nominate a list of drivers to Williams (which must be done by October 15), and Williams are obligated to consider them when assessing their driver line-up for the next year (though they are not obligated to take them if they feel those drivers are not suitable).

So basically, Williams have sold their souls to the devil correct?

No. The contract with PDVSA gives them the power to recommend drivers to Williams. However, it is my understanding that:

1) Williams have no obligation to sign a driver that PDVSA recommend.

2) PDVSA cannot veto any driver that Williams sign up if that driver is not on their list.

-------

Renault can’t drop Petrov for two reasons:

First of all, he brings money to the team. Money that they need.

Secondly, and more importantly, if they drop him, they will have effectively said “if you criticise us, we will just replace you”. Petrov’s comments make it pretty clear that he has been frustrated with the lack of progress for a while now and he has only hit out at them as a last resort to try and get them to listen. He has evidently been raising issues within the team, but they have fallen on deaf ears. Both Renault and Petrov want the same thing, they’re just going about it in different ways. If Renault react to this by dropping Petrov, any replacement driver is going to be apprehensive about signing up.

James Allen has a take on this story, and he suggests Petrov may be bought out of his contract ....

"Unfortunately I cannot say anything bad about the team, it says so in my contract,” said Petrov, who observed that if a world champion like Kimi Raikkonen can be moved aside with a pay-off then what chance does he have?"

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/11/what-next-for-petrov-after-rant-at-renault/

It's worth a read.

Captain Hammer wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

Not at all. A driver should have a right to speak his mind about the team. No doubt he has tried to voice his concerns within the team, and they are not listening to him. So he went public.

Ask Kasey Kahne how he got removed from Richard Petty's team in NASCAR.

Petrov has said nothing that wasn't bleedingly obvious, but then again, most team owners don't like to hear such things said about them publicly. They might if the driver was winning, but otherwise, probably not. I could imagine Lotus sacking him over it, and that pretty much is their message to the rest of the F1 world that they are on a one-way route backwards.

Losing key staff and making mindless decisions doesn't exactly help either.

I'd love to see Petrov and Glock swap seats!

It makes some sense due to the increasing Russian influence at Marussia, and also Renault are looking for a team leader, and I think Glock is the best available contender to do that.

Captain Hammer wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Petrov Criticizes His Renault Team On Russian TV

Oops.

Not at all. A driver should have a right to speak his mind about the team. No doubt he has tried to voice his concerns within the team, and they are not listening to him. So he went public.

It's more to do with him contractually not being allowed to slate the team, and then doing it anyway. It's almost as if he thinks that they won't find out if he does it in Russian.

Nope, it's because they won't listen to him. His words make it pretty clear that he's only going public because he feels he has no other choice.

A lot of my friends are Russian, and if there is anything I have learned about them, it's this: they're very resilient. It takes a lot to make them happy, it takes a lot to get them upset, and it takes a lot to get them angry. So if Petrov is upset, you can bet that his grievances are legitimate. Any other driver would have said something by now.

Petrov apologises:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96328

I'd love to see the original inteview, to see the kinds of questions that he was asked (ie the reporter might have pushed him on why he was scoring podiums t the start pf the year and fighting over tenths at the end), but my Russian isn't good enough to understand it.

Captain Hammer wrote:Petrov apologises:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96328

*sings* And - so - they - called - him - sy - co - phaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant

Pastor Malonado's seat might be in danger:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96333

A venezuelan congressman has asked for an investigation into the arrangement with Williams, because PDVSA is a public company, and under Venezuelan law, no public money can be spent without the government's approval - and congress cannot find a copy of the contract.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great joy that I present to you the newest game for children and adults: the WILLIAMS DICES. Always wanted to feel like an F1 team boss? Now you can do that, with the WILLIAMS DICES. Throw them and see what entertaining driver combination you can come up with? Maldonado/Räikkönen, Van Der Garde/Barrichello, Bottas/Räikkönen, Senna/Maldonado, Sutil/Bottas? Everything is possible when playing with WILLIAMS DICES! Buy now and you will get the Marussia Second Driver Roulette as well, only for $29,95.

Klon wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great joy that I present to you the newest game for children and adults: the WILLIAMS DICES. Always wanted to feel like an F1 team boss? Now you can do that, with the WILLIAMS DICES. Throw them and see what entertaining driver combination you can come up with? Maldonado/Räikkönen, Van Der Garde/Barrichello, Bottas/Räikkönen, Senna/Maldonado, Sutil/Bottas? Everything is possible when playing with WILLIAMS DICES! Buy now and you will get the Marussia Second Driver Roulette as well, only for $29,95.

Surprisingly, I think the real Williams will be looking into buying that It's the next best Christmas present!

Captain Hammer wrote:Petrov apologises:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96328

I'd love to see the original inteview, to see the kinds of questions that he was asked (ie the reporter might have pushed him on why he was scoring podiums t the start pf the year and fighting over tenths at the end), but my Russian isn't good enough to understand it.

Team admits Petrov is right:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96345

...if you read between the lines...

It's an insult to even think that Renault can't even take a shred of criticism, even if they did retract and admitted their errors. Petrov should leave Renault.

Ed24 wrote:I'd love to see Petrov and Glock swap seats!

It makes some sense due to the increasing Russian influence at Marussia, and also Renault are looking for a team leader, and I think Glock is the best available contender to do that.

I was hoping for that earlier in the year, but then Glock went and signed that contract with Marussia. However, there are always loopholes in these kinds of contracts...

Yeah, well, Petrov is Russian. Glock supposedly has a contract that says that if a better team approaches him, he can swap.

Captain Hammer wrote:Pastor Malonado's seat might be in danger:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96333

A venezuelan congressman has asked for an investigation into the arrangement with Williams, because PDVSA is a public company, and under Venezuelan law, no public money can be spent without the government's approval - and congress cannot find a copy of the contract.

It'll be interesting to see how their investors react to that; I'd imagine that a few investors will be unsettled by the prospect of a public investigation into the finances of the team. I'd have to say, though, that if the PDVSA deal is found to have been completed illegally then Williams are in deep trouble - if Maldonado's sponsorship really is worth £21 - £29 million a year, and from Williams's financial reports - available here http://www.attwilliams.com/investors/fi ... ual-report - their turnover is likely to be in the order of £100 million (OK, the figures are up until the end of 2010, but their turnover is likely to be around that figure), then any disruption to that funding will hurt the team very badly, and potentially terminally.

Cynon wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:Petrov apologises:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96328

I'd love to see the original inteview, to see the kinds of questions that he was asked (ie the reporter might have pushed him on why he was scoring podiums t the start pf the year and fighting over tenths at the end), but my Russian isn't good enough to understand it.

Team admits Petrov is right:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96345

...if you read between the lines...

It's not the first time that Renault have indicated that they've made a mistake with their exhaust configuration, albeit not quite that explicitly or damningly. I guess that they'll be pretty relieved that the 2012 regulations will get rid of the blown diffuser, and give them the chance to start afresh, but it also makes you wonder whether their decision to push ahead with their current design package when they had a rearward exiting exhaust package available to them (don't forget that Heidfeld tested the rearward exhausts in the first practise at Hungary, and seemed to think that Renault's quick conversion had potential, but they decided that it'd be too expensive to change the car mid season and stuck with their original design).

Myrvold wrote:Yeah, well, Petrov is Russian. Glock supposedly has a contract that says that if a better team approaches him, he can swap.

I think that it's unlikely Renault will approach Glock now - he might have an outside chance in 2009 and 2010, but at the moment Renault have more drivers than seats (there's Grosjean, who I suspect may drive for Renault in 2012 thanks to Boullier's support, Bruno Senna is still in the running thanks to his sponsorship (even if his results have been up and down so far), and Kubica may yet return to the cockpit if he recovers in time (although Ferrari are still very interested in Kubica as a replacement for Massa, and they have tried at least once in the past to sign Kubica)).
Against that, it's hard to see how Glock could compete against those drivers - he's unlikely to bring in more sponsors than Bruno Senna can, he'll have to overcome Boullier's bias towards one of his drivers and Kubica, at least before his accident, was rated as a far better driver.

Myrvold wrote:Yeah, well, Petrov is Russian. Glock supposedly has a contract that says that if a better team approaches him, he can swap.

It won't happen.