Grand Prix Rejects

If Mercedes do manage to poach a top driver then there is musical seats all the way down the grid.

I would really like to see Vettel or Alonso get it, then either Sainz in at Ferrari (with Gasley getting the TR seat) or Button back in at McLaren.

Jorge Lorenzo test drove the Mercedes in October and he thinks driving F1 cars is easy.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... y--lorenzo

Lorenzo challenging Hamilton for the title in 2017? You heard it here first!

My first thought is what a way to make the once closed silly season go nuclear. But it actually makes a lot of sense, Nico steps down when at his peak and Mercedes can recruit a driver that can/will be Hamiltons number 2. I think they would prefer that to the expense of buying out another top driver and managing the same dramatics all over again. Clear number 1 and 2 work for titles.

Button must be gutted he retired now

Collieafc wrote:My first thought is what a way to make the once closed silly season go nuclear. But it actually makes a lot of sense, Nico steps down when at his peak and Mercedes can recruit a driver that can/will be Hamiltons number 2. I think they would prefer that to the expense of buying out another top driver and managing the same dramatics all over again. Clear number 1 and 2 work for titles.

Button must be gutted he retired now

Well, technically Button is only going for a "sabbatical"... but Mercedes don't really need another experienced driver besides Hamilton. Wehrlein fits the bill of a young, relatively inexperienced driver who is still (likely) dependable enough to bring home the points.

I'd love to see one of three things happen:

For one year only... Fernando Alonso
He's made no secret of his desire to win another World Championship, and he's certainly a good enough driver to do it. It would also be very exciting to revive that 2007 title battle a decade after last time.

Out of nowhere... Jorge Lorenzo
It'd be great to see someone try to do a John Surtees, and with a winter's intense testing a natural racer like him would be pretty much up to scratch straight away.

Welcome back... Sebastien Buemi
The man clearly knows how to win Championships, and he doesn't appear to be being challenged in Formula E. It would be great to see what he could do with a top-end Formula One car underneath him.

But if I'm honest, I doubt that any of those drivers will get the seat. The only driver that I really see getting the gig is Rio Haryanto Sergio Perez

Yeah could see Mercedes buying out Perez as a reasonably experienced driver that probably will be a solid #2 without challenging Hamilton too often with Wehrlein getting the vacant seat at Force India. And unless someone else with experience shows up I can't see Williams giving up Bottas when they have taken a gamble on Stroll.

Or maybe they could poach Sainz. Surely Red Bull can't hold onto him for much longer if Verstappen and Ricciardo don't go anywhere?

Samster wrote:Bottas

Actually, I reckon he might be a possibility given Toto Wolff's links with him though. Doesn't Wolff manage him or something?

If they have sense they'll go for either Nico, Valteri, or Pascal.

If they really want to annoy Lewis, they'll pick Freddy or JB.

Paul Di Resta's available! He *definitely* wouldn't challenge Hamilton's No.1 status....

If Alonso moves to Mercedes, I believe Button will give up from retirement. If Werhlein moves to Mercedes, this increase the chances of Nasr, Gutierrez, Haryanto and King getting a seat. If Bottas moves to Mercedes, Nasr is the favorite to replace him since he was Williams' test driver in the past. If Sainz moves to Mercedes, Gasly will replace him.

I would be surprised if they went for Alonso. If they did, he would most likely be a stopgap while the likes of Ocon and Wehrlein gain experience. I'm sure Alonso would get great results for Mercedes, but as he has done 15 seasons, I doubt he'll stay in F1 for long. Button is even more unlikely. Hamilton isn't that young by F1 standards either so it would make sense to hire a young driver to partner him.

If we're pulling from anywhere, Marc Marquez.

Bottas to Mercedes, Button to Williams?

Izzyeviel wrote:Bottas to Mercedes, Button to Williams?

It's what Gary Anderson reckons would be a 'win-win' situation for both teams...

Barbazza wrote:Paul Di Resta's available! He *definitely* wouldn't challenge Hamilton's No.1 status....

Meatwad wrote:I would be surprised if they went for Alonso. If they did, he would most likely be a stopgap while the likes of Ocon and Wehrlein gain experience. I'm sure Alonso would get great results for Mercedes, but as he has done 15 seasons, I doubt he'll stay in F1 for long. Button is even more unlikely. Hamilton isn't that young by F1 standards either so it would make sense to hire a young driver to partner him.

Well, at the moment Briatore has been saying that Alonso won't be going anywhere and will serve out his contract at McLaren, whilst Vettel seems to have ruled himself out of the picture. It's looking increasingly likely that it will be one of Mercedes's junior drivers who'll get the seat instead, and it is being reported that the discussions which had been opened between Wehrlein and Sauber have now been put on ice.

Speaking of Mercedes, there is talk that we might be seeing another high profile departure - it is being suggested that Paddy Lowe is being courted by another team (possibly Williams, perhaps now flush with cash due to Stroll), and is potentially open to leaving the team. If he does go, there is talk that James Allison might be being lined up as a potential replacement for Lowe.

mario wrote:

Meatwad wrote:I would be surprised if they went for Alonso. If they did, he would most likely be a stopgap while the likes of Ocon and Wehrlein gain experience. I'm sure Alonso would get great results for Mercedes, but as he has done 15 seasons, I doubt he'll stay in F1 for long. Button is even more unlikely. Hamilton isn't that young by F1 standards either so it would make sense to hire a young driver to partner him.

Well, at the moment Briatore has been saying that Alonso won't be going anywhere and will serve out his contract at McLaren, whilst Vettel seems to have ruled himself out of the picture. It's looking increasingly likely that it will be one of Mercedes's junior drivers who'll get the seat instead, and it is being reported that the discussions which had been opened between Wehrlein and Sauber have now been put on ice.

Speaking of Mercedes, there is talk that we might be seeing another high profile departure - it is being suggested that Paddy Lowe is being courted by another team (possibly Williams, perhaps now flush with cash due to Stroll), and is potentially open to leaving the team. If he does go, there is talk that James Allison might be being lined up as a potential replacement for Lowe.

And thus....

Miguel98 wrote:

mario wrote:

Meatwad wrote:I would be surprised if they went for Alonso. If they did, he would most likely be a stopgap while the likes of Ocon and Wehrlein gain experience. I'm sure Alonso would get great results for Mercedes, but as he has done 15 seasons, I doubt he'll stay in F1 for long. Button is even more unlikely. Hamilton isn't that young by F1 standards either so it would make sense to hire a young driver to partner him.

Well, at the moment Briatore has been saying that Alonso won't be going anywhere and will serve out his contract at McLaren, whilst Vettel seems to have ruled himself out of the picture. It's looking increasingly likely that it will be one of Mercedes's junior drivers who'll get the seat instead, and it is being reported that the discussions which had been opened between Wehrlein and Sauber have now been put on ice.

Speaking of Mercedes, there is talk that we might be seeing another high profile departure - it is being suggested that Paddy Lowe is being courted by another team (possibly Williams, perhaps now flush with cash due to Stroll), and is potentially open to leaving the team. If he does go, there is talk that James Allison might be being lined up as a potential replacement for Lowe.

And thus....

I wonder what the terms of the offer from Williams must have been like since, if I am honest, the prospects for long term growth do not seem to be especially good at Williams. As for Mercedes, whilst the move is inevitably going to be disruptive, at the same time Allison is a quite skilled individual who would make for a quite handy replacement for Mercedes.

On another note, there are reports that suggest Mercedes recently approached Williams asking them to release Bottas from his contract but, despite claims of a rather healthy sweetener - in the form of a €10 million discount on their engine supplies - Williams have apparently rejected the offer out of hand because they want Bottas to lead their team. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791

Matt Somerfield is reporting that Tavo Hellmund has finalised terms to purchase a stake in Manor, in consultation with a consortium. This consortium is rumoured to have ties to Asia, and hence there's a chance Antonio Giovinazzi might be able to clinch one of the seats with his KFC dolla.

...if this happens, I called it.

Dj_bereta wrote:Sauber Honda in 2018?

Christ, aren't Sauber having a hard enough time as it is?

CoopsII wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Sauber Honda in 2018?

Christ, aren't Sauber having a hard enough time as it is?

They're not that much better off for 2017 given that they'll be running 2016 spec Ferrari engines - it is ostensibly because they had already designed their 2017 car around the 2016 engine and did not want to make alterations to their design, but I cannot suspect that the more likely reason was financial (i.e. saving a bit of cash by going for older engines).

There is one possible upside to that option, and it is the fact that they are planning on relaxing the engine development regulations - that could potentially help Honda make a decent step up in performance, though 2017 will be the acid test of that.

Capito out of McLaren:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ve-mclaren

That was quick; I guess McHonda might not improve that much, if Jost's lack of confidence/discord with upper management is anything to go by.

Also, according to Autosport, Giovinazzi is Ferrari's 2017 reserve driver- good news for him when Raikkonen retires, although bad news for Sainz (he almost certainly won't get a Ferrari seat now if there's someone similarly well-regarded, yet younger and more integrated into the team) and potentially Grosjean (it is still possible that he could end up with the team in 2018 with Giovinazzi at Haas, though it is less probable)

I am so hype about the idea of Jagonya Ayam! Team Manor, that I couldn't care less about who gives the Mercedes drive.

Giovinazzi a Ferrari Junior and with a F1 race drive next season?

I like the news about Giovinazzi, but where does that leave Leclerc?

Waris wrote:I like the news about Giovinazzi, but where does that leave Leclerc?

I believe that it was announced in late November that Charles Leclerc is still being backed by Ferrari and both he and Fuoco are being moved up into GP2 to drive for Prema. https://www.racer.com/international-rac ... 2-for-2017

It would suggest that Leclerc is still in the picture at Ferrari - the expectation is that Giovinazzi will be used to test Ferrari's 2017 car, which may be a sign that Ferrari might be evaluating him with the possibility of placing him at another team in 2018 (perhaps at Haas?). Leclerc and Fuoco still seem to be fairly well placed - a strong GP2 season in 2017 would still put both of them in a strong position for 2018, either at Ferrari or elsewhere in the field (it may be enough to attract another team to buy them out of their contract).

This Could Be You wrote:That was quick; I guess McHonda might not improve that much, if Jost's lack of confidence/discord with upper management is anything to go by.

Also, according to Autosport, Giovinazzi is Ferrari's 2017 reserve driver- good news for him when Raikkonen retires, although bad news for Sainz (he almost certainly won't get a Ferrari seat now if there's someone similarly well-regarded, yet younger and more integrated into the team) and potentially Grosjean (it is still possible that he could end up with the team in 2018 with Giovinazzi at Haas, though it is less probable)

Grosjean scored all Haas points, but he was beaten by Gutierrez in race finishes (6-7) and was only 12-9 ahead in qualify. No surprise if Ferrari lost interest on him considering Gutierrez was the most disappointing driver of the season.

Autosport is reporting that Massa has agreed to return to Williams for 2017, so we can assume that Bottas is practically a lock for Mercedes next year.

Is anyone else so ..... bored with these recent developments? Is Massa the best that Williams can think of? Bearing in mind the requirement for an older driver from Martini, Wizzie and I have thought of the perfect fit, a real shoe-in.

Fast? Check
Experience with Mercedes engines? Check
Experience with current-gen cars? Check
Experience with 2017 Pirellis? Check
Over 25? Check
Out of a drive - check
Experience with Williams - check

I am indeed talking abut the man, the myth, the legend:

First Ferrari, now Mercedes, what do the top teams see in Bottas? He seems the most dependably average driver to me, great to have for a midfield or lower team but not good enough for the top. Or is he just a filler for 2017 as Pérez and Ocon battle it out for the permanent promotion, after which Williams really will be Bottas/Stroll? Or what if Mercedes take a MotoGP rider and Stroll goes to Sauber? Unless (theories gradually get more schizophrenic as more and more people stop listening)

Any shred of credibility that Massa had just left the building - and that goes for Williams too.
Also agree on the Bottas post above - average.

Toro Rosso must have some pretty iron-clad contracts.

I'd take Sainz over Bottas or Massa now; and I'd take Kvyat over Massa.

Maybe the new RB/TR strategy is to keep all the drivers with proven talent and experience out of the other teams' cars?

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:First Ferrari, now Mercedes, what do the top teams see in Bottas? He seems the most dependably average driver to me, great to have for a midfield or lower team but not good enough for the top. Or is he just a filler for 2017 as Pérez and Ocon battle it out for the permanent promotion, after which Williams really will be Bottas/Stroll? Or what if Mercedes take a MotoGP rider and Stroll goes to Sauber? Unless (theories gradually get more schizophrenic as more and more people stop listening)

There was a suggestion in the Brazilian press that he is being used as a stop gap driver - essentially, it's not that he is the driver that Mercedes wanted the most, but the best driver that Mercedes think that they can get at such short notice.

They claim that Mercedes approached McLaren in an attempt to buy Alonso out of his contract and were immediately rebuffed - they then allegedly tried to buy Hulkenberg out of his contract at Renault and were given similarly short shrift by them. They then seem to have tried to get Ocon out of his contract with Force India, who declined their approaches - as for Sainz, it looks like that wasn't remotely on the cards as Red Bull had made it clear very early on that they were going to turn down all approaches from Mercedes for any of their drivers, either at Toro Rosso or Red Bull.

Basically, it looks like the only team which has been prepared to enter into negotiations has been Williams, and even then they are not readily releasing Bottas - they know that Mercedes are beginning to get a bit desperate, and since they know Mercedes no longer have to pay Rosberg's rather hefty salary (a figure of €22 million per year has been mentioned), they have reportedly demanded that Mercedes increases the discount from €10 million to €17 million (i.e. gives them free engines).

Spectoremg wrote:Any shred of credibility that Massa had just left the building - and that goes for Williams too.

Just think of Massa as the Jay Z of F1

mario wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:First Ferrari, now Mercedes, what do the top teams see in Bottas? He seems the most dependably average driver to me, great to have for a midfield or lower team but not good enough for the top. Or is he just a filler for 2017 as Pérez and Ocon battle it out for the permanent promotion, after which Williams really will be Bottas/Stroll? Or what if Mercedes take a MotoGP rider and Stroll goes to Sauber? Unless (theories gradually get more schizophrenic as more and more people stop listening)

There was a suggestion in the Brazilian press that he is being used as a stop gap driver - essentially, it's not that he is the driver that Mercedes wanted the most, but the best driver that Mercedes think that they can get at such short notice.

They claim that Mercedes approached McLaren in an attempt to buy Alonso out of his contract and were immediately rebuffed - they then allegedly tried to buy Hulkenberg out of his contract at Renault and were given similarly short shrift by them. They then seem to have tried to get Ocon out of his contract with Force India, who declined their approaches - as for Sainz, it looks like that wasn't remotely on the cards as Red Bull had made it clear very early on that they were going to turn down all approaches from Mercedes for any of their drivers, either at Toro Rosso or Red Bull.

Basically, it looks like the only team which has been prepared to enter into negotiations has been Williams, and even then they are not readily releasing Bottas - they know that Mercedes are beginning to get a bit desperate, and since they know Mercedes no longer have to pay Rosberg's rather hefty salary (a figure of €22 million per year has been mentioned), they have reportedly demanded that Mercedes increases the discount from €10 million to €17 million (i.e. gives them free engines).

Just to make clear how highly they think of Wehrlein...

https://thejudge13.com/2016/12/21/ron-d ... returning/

ManRon