The Junior Series Thread

[mario]

Cecotto was leading a Trulli train of epic proportions though! Which lead to crazy "kindergarten" racing at the end.

It was amateur hour from a driving standards point of view, entertaining though for TV. I want to see the stewards be firmer with their penalties and I think that there are many incidents to be reviewed here starting from the Cecotto/Canamasas incident which was bordering on dangerous and that triggered the rest imo... the stewards need to sort it as next race is Monaco...

Well done to Frijns, it would have been awesome had he managed to win this race as well!

Having seen the move in question, I have to agree - Cecotto's decision to drive into Canamasas was stupid and unnecessary and he should have been hit with a severe penalty, especially since he has done this before. As far as I am aware he has received no penalty - to be honest, if I were one of the stewards I'd be pushing for a race ban after seeing that and given his previous form, since only a penalty of that severity is likely to make him stop.
In fact, you'd have to say that the stewards were pretty lenient as a whole when it came to allowing wheel banging and barging to go on on track - perhaps it's not so surprising that some GP2 drivers are accused of being overly aggressive when they come into F1 given the mentality of the drivers in GP2.

[Alextrax52]

What makes this more ludicrous is the fact that Cecotto has got away virtually scot free while Haryanto got a 10 place grid drop for deciding that he didn't like Canamasas's rear wing and took it off. That's disgusting because how on earth was Haryanto supposed to stop something like that from happening when everyone was getting bunched up because of Cecotto's actions and it was just a case of everyone wanting the same piece of track?. I just don't understand it at all.

[wsrgo]

A good read here about the fact that GP2 shouldn't be looked as all crashes, no racing: http://www.paddockscout.com/opinion-tarring-everyone-with-the-same-brush/.

[Londoner]

Having finally watched the Barcelona sprint race, I have to agree with those calling for Cecotto to be banned. I swore loudly when he tried to run Canamasas off the road. Which was a real shame, because Canamasas was actually being pretty impressive out there.

[wsrgo]

News coming in that Robin Frijns has been confirmed for Monaco. His GP2 career continues.

I shudder to think what would happen if we saw the GP2 field line up at Monaco with Cecotto, but no Frijns.

[Bleu]

News coming in that Robin Frijns has been confirmed for Monaco. His GP2 career continues.

I shudder to think what would happen if we saw the GP2 field line up at Monaco with Cecotto, but no Frijns.

We saw last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xXL977-90

[DanielPT]

News coming in that Robin Frijns has been confirmed for Monaco. His GP2 career continues.

I shudder to think what would happen if we saw the GP2 field line up at Monaco with Cecotto, but no Frijns.

We saw last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xXL977-90

Given what we have seen this season, it is unlikely to happen in any other way...

[DemocalypseNow]

News coming in that Robin Frijns has been confirmed for Monaco. His GP2 career continues.

I shudder to think what would happen if we saw the GP2 field line up at Monaco with Cecotto, but no Frijns.

We saw last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xXL977-90

To be fair, that was after he had won the feature race earlier.

[go_Rubens]

News coming in that Robin Frijns has been confirmed for Monaco. His GP2 career continues.

I shudder to think what would happen if we saw the GP2 field line up at Monaco with Cecotto, but no Frijns.

We saw last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xXL977-90

To be fair, that was after he had won the feature race earlier.

Cecotto should never get a race seat at Monaco ahead of Frijns. I don't want to see it if it happens.

[Salamander]

Cecotto should never get a race seat at Monaco ahead of Frijns. I don't want to see it if it happens.

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

[go_Rubens]

Cecotto should never get a race seat at Monaco ahead of Frijns. I don't want to see it if it happens.

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

That I guess is true

[Meatwad]

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

Even Giancarlo Serenelli, Ricardo Teixeira and Old Navajo?

[wsrgo]

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

Even Giancarlo Serenelli, Ricardo Teixeira and Old Navajo?

These guys won't probably kill you. Even Navajo. The likes of Cecotto, Canamasas almost certainly will.

[Alextrax52]

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

Even Giancarlo Serenelli, Ricardo Teixeira and Old Navajo?

These guys won't probably kill you. Even Navajo. The likes of Cecotto, Canamasas Grosjean and Maldonado almost certainly will.

Fixed

[Salamander]

Everybody should get a race seat ahead of Cecotto. In everything ever.

Even Giancarlo Serenelli, Ricardo Teixeira and Old Navajo?

These guys won't probably kill you. Even Navajo. The likes of Cecotto, Canamasas Grosjean and Maldonado almost certainly will.

Fixed

Grosjean and Maldonado don't race in GP2 anymore. But trust me when I say that I'd rather see Andy Neate in Cecotto's seat than Cecotto himself. At least Neate won't be going fast enough to hurt anyone...

[Alextrax52]

These guys won't probably kill you. Even Navajo. The likes of Cecotto, Canamasas Grosjean and Maldonado almost certainly will.[/quote]

Grosjean and Maldonado don't race in GP2 anymore. But trust me when I say that I'd rather see Andy Neate in Cecotto's seat than Cecotto himself. At least Neate won't be going fast enough to hurt anyone...[/quote]

I largely did that because of the adventures Grosnado put us through last year. Trust me if they had done that in GP2 last year who knows what the level of driving in the category would be like. As for Mr Neate if he can't go fast he would end up making Serenelli look fast. Neate would just be a roadblock all the time especially at Monaco and he'd probably DNQ on occasion too. At least Cecotto's quick but the GP2 bosses really need to do something about him if he does another stupid thing

[Salamander]

I largely did that because of the adventures Grosnado put us through last year. Trust me if they had done that in GP2 last year who knows what the level of driving in the category would be like.

Except Grosjean and Maldonado are GP2 champions. I can't remember what Maldonado got up to in his championship year, but Grosjean pulled off crap like this, and made everyone else look silly.

[Alextrax52]

I largely did that because of the adventures Grosnado put us through last year. Trust me if they had done that in GP2 last year who knows what the level of driving in the category would be like.

Except Grosjean and Maldonado are GP2 champions. I can't remember what Maldonado got up to in his championship year, but Grosjean pulled off crap like this, and made everyone else look silly.

You're kind of missing my point here. Yes Grosnado are both GP2 Champions and drove brilliantly when they took the title in their years. Maldonado took 6 feature race wins in a row and no one else was consistent enough to fight him. Grosjean took off mid season with some brilliant mid-season wins in a time where one man and his dog could have walked off with the title in 2011.

However what i'm trying to say is that if Grosjean and Maldonado had driven like they did in 2012 during their entire GP2 careers by causing the bad the ugly and the downright sheer daftness then GP2 driving standards would have been set at Kindergarten level. However since i'm becoming one of the most controversial users here this point will no doubt be debated over.

[Ataxia]

I largely did that because of the adventures Grosnado put us through last year. Trust me if they had done that in GP2 last year who knows what the level of driving in the category would be like.

Except Grosjean and Maldonado are GP2 champions. I can't remember what Maldonado got up to in his championship year, but Grosjean pulled off crap like this, and made everyone else look silly.

You're kind of missing my point here. Yes Grosnado are both GP2 Champions and drove brilliantly when they took the title in their years. Maldonado took 6 feature race wins in a row and no one else was consistent enough to fight him. Grosjean took off mid season with some brilliant mid-season wins in a time where one man and his dog could have walked off with the title in 2011.

However what i'm trying to say is that if Grosjean and Maldonado had driven like they did in 2012 during their entire GP2 careers by causing the bad the ugly and the downright sheer daftness then GP2 driving standards would have been set at Kindergarten level. However since i'm becoming one of the most controversial users here no one will take my point seriously

Personally, I'm just not sure what the point really is. If it's a dig at GP2 driving standards, you referred to Canamasas and Cecotto earlier. I think you're generalising a bit; Cecotto and Canamasas are very wild drivers but they're not the whole field. GP2 driving standards are usually more "exciting" than "incident-filled".

As for the constituent elements of "Grosnado", Maldonado has been pretty reckless in the majority of his career, and one might argue that he took the GP2 title in 2010 due to his greater experience in the category (especially as Rapax are usually pretty hit or miss). Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but most of his GP2 career was in a similar vein to his F1 career, so I'm not totally sure what point you're really making.

Grosjean has been more of a rough diamond; he's ultra quick but every now and then has had a bit of a problem reining that in. I think 2012 was by and large a one-off season; it seemed like he'd got his bad starting luck out of his system, but it just seemed to snowball as he lost his confidence. I don't ever remember him being the crash-kid in any other season.

[Alextrax52]

Ok let's just settle this as both are Fast and entertaining but erratic as well but considering the tire debate that's been going on since Spain i would give my heart to see a flat out race of drivers like Maldonado and Grosjean who push to the very edge and end up falling off the road because we don't see that very often.

[Alextrax52]

And to think this is the same driver who made that super tire call at Germany and raced hard but fair in all the other top results he scored. By the way looks like a lot of people have something against Andy Neate but why and what for.

Hmm, let's see. Scoring 79 points in a works MG last season, when his team mate Plato scored 376 and finished 3rd in the championship. He was driving for freaking Triple 8, and he couldn't get a top-5 result all season. The fact that his replacement Sam Tordoff already has 103 points and hasn't finished a race lower than 8th so far just says it all.

And that utterly disgraceful piece of driving at Brands Hatch in October where he just drove straight into Adam Morgan.

I also forgot to add this as well. I remember at the start of 2012 when Matt Neal said Plato's Got Andy Neate to help him. If by "Help" he meant "Smash off other drivers to give Plato extra positions" He was spot on

[RonDenisDeletraz]

The "Old Navajo" story is a very interesting one. There is a multiple page thread about him on another forum I go to just trying to figure out his real name and identity. He is a truly useless driver though, even worse than Chris James.

[wsrgo]

Grosjean and Maldonado have both had several wild moments in their careers. The difference is that in the latter's case, it started from his WSR years, whereas Grosjean wasn't too wild in F3.

As for Grosjean thumping the field in 2011, what else did people expect? Maybe most expected Bianchi to give more of a fight, but it was a less than perfect season for Lotus ART as a whole. Filippi's late switch to Coloni made him a potent force, but in all truthfulness, Addax was the team closest to DAMS that year and both Pic and VDG underperformed. Not to mention Grosjean was a clear no. 1 in DAMS (I don't think the French team were paying too much attention to Pal Varhaug).

People talk about Grosjean as a prodigy in junior formulae, but I disagree. His post-2009 achievements were good (Auto GP champ, GP2 Asia champ, GP2 champ), but he'd already had a taste of F1 and had a lot more experience in one-make single seaters by then. His pre-2009 achievements are not really prodigious (especially if you compare him to the likes of Hulkenberg, Bianchi, Bottas etc.). His first F3 Euroseries was bad. In 2007, he won the championship narrowly beating Sebastien Buemi, whose team Mucke were clearly inferior to Grosjean's ASM Formule 3 (later ART). His first GP2 season in 2008 was good, but on that respect he was expected to dominate in 2009. But just before he was called by Renault, he was behind Hulkenberg in the championship, and the Addax car which Grosjean drove that year had a very good setup, so much so that Vitaly Petrov finished runner-up ultimately.

He also won another GP2 Asia series, which most considered to be a farce of a championship. So I do believe that people really overestimate Grosjean's junior formulae achievements. 7 titles, out of which 4 are really meaningless (Renault Speed Trophy, 2 GP2 Asia series, 1 Auto GP).

[Salamander]

I think what a lot of people forget is that Grosjean would've walked GP2 in 2009, but his accident at Monaco took a lot out of him. Then he got the call-up at Renault, which didn't really help matters in my view.

[wsrgo]

I think what a lot of people forget is that Grosjean would've walked GP2 in 2009, but his accident at Monaco took a lot out of him. Then he got the call-up at Renault, which didn't really help matters in my view.

Well, whose fault was it that Grosjean tried to make a near impossible pass at Tabac? He wasn't even wheel-to-wheel with the guy in front.

[TomWazzleshaw]

I think what a lot of people forget is that Grosjean would've walked GP2 in 2009, but his accident at Monaco took a lot out of him. Then he got the call-up at Renault, which didn't really help matters in my view.

Ah, yes. Ended up having to drive arguably the slowest and ugliest car ever to come out of the Enstone factory as a super-sub for probably one of the most unpopular drivers in recent times, alongside one of the best drivers on the grid. The end result was almost inevitable, really.

[Salamander]

I think what a lot of people forget is that Grosjean would've walked GP2 in 2009, but his accident at Monaco took a lot out of him. Then he got the call-up at Renault, which didn't really help matters in my view.

Well, whose fault was it that Grosjean tried to make a near impossible pass at Tabac? He wasn't even wheel-to-wheel with the guy in front.

WHAT!? Did you even watch the video of that? He made a move, got blocked, then moved back to the racing line, where the guy in front also moved across him, which you are not supposed to do. How the hell was that Grosjean's fault?

[Bleu]

I think what a lot of people forget is that Grosjean would've walked GP2 in 2009, but his accident at Monaco took a lot out of him. Then he got the call-up at Renault, which didn't really help matters in my view.

Well, whose fault was it that Grosjean tried to make a near impossible pass at Tabac? He wasn't even wheel-to-wheel with the guy in front.

WHAT!? Did you even watch the video of that? He made a move, got blocked, then moved back to the racing line, where the guy in front also moved across him, which you are not supposed to do. How the hell was that Grosjean's fault?

It was a classic example what could happen with chicane cutting and "claiming no advantage". A big queue of cars, driver in the middle of it cuts the chicane (Andreas Zuber in this case) and has to slow down not to claim advantage, which he did well. The driver behind (Grosjean) will try to get advantage of this while driver who cut the chicane wants to keep his position.

[wsrgo]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER:
1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)
2. Mitch Evans (Arden)
3. Sam Bird (RUSSIAN TIME)
4. Fabio Leimer (Racing Engineering)
5. Kevin Ceccon (Trident)
6. Jolyon Palmer (Carlin)
7. Jolyon Leal (Racing Engineering)
8. Tom Dillmann (RUSSIAN TIME)
9. Felipe Nasr (Carlin)
10. Robin Frijns (Hilmer)

[Alextrax52]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER:
1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)
2. Mitch Evans (Arden)
3. Sam Bird (RUSSIAN TIME)
4. Fabio Leimer (Racing Engineering)
5. Kevin Ceccon (Trident)
6. Jolyon Palmer (Carlin)
7. Jolyon Leal (Racing Engineering)
8. Tom Dillmann (RUSSIAN TIME)
9. Felipe Nasr (Carlin)
10. Robin Frijns (Hilmer)

Time for the Humble Pie?

[AxelP800]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER: 1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)

Sabotage him.... someone please. Somebody flip him at St. Devote.... pleasee

[Nuppiz]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER: 1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)

Huge pileup at the start of the race in 3...2...1...

[Shadaza]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER:
1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)
2. Mitch Evans (Arden)
3. Sam Bird (RUSSIAN TIME)
4. Fabio Leimer (Racing Engineering)
5. Kevin Ceccon (Trident)
6. Jolyon Palmer (Carlin)
7. Jolyon Leal (Racing Engineering)
8. Tom Dillmann (RUSSIAN TIME)
9. Felipe Nasr (Carlin)
10. Robin Frijns (Hilmer)

Time for the Humble Pie?

Not only that but Cecotto's lap was set in the first session where in general the times were slower than the second. If Cecotto had been in the second group his pole margin would have been even bigger probably. A great day for Arden, and indeed Russian Time, Racing Engineering and Carlin for all getting both cars in the top 10.
Not a great day for Rapax, Art or DAMS.

[Alextrax52]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER: 1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)

Huge pileup at the start of the race in 3...2...1...

2012 all over again?

[AxelP800]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER: 1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)

Huge pileup at the start of the race in 3...2...1...

2012 all over again?

Yes and this time is bigger. Only Haryanto survives

[Salamander]

Huge pileup at the start of the race in 3...2...1...

2012 all over again?

Yes and this time is bigger. Only Robin Frijns survives

Fixed.

[Alextrax52]

Huge pileup at the start of the race in 3...2...1...

Yes and this time is bigger. Only Sergio Canamasas survives

Fixed Again.

[AxelP800]

I just found this at www.gp2series.com



Sorry Cecotto,I can't hold it

[Bleu]

If just Giancarlo Serenelli was still in the series, he would be only one to not get caught, because he's too slow to be in the pack at that point.

[Salamander]

MONACO FEATURE RACE STARTING ORDER:
1. Johnny Cecotto (Arden)
2. Mitch Evans (Arden)
3. Sam Bird (RUSSIAN TIME)
4. Fabio Leimer (Racing Engineering)
5. Kevin Ceccon (Trident)
6. Jolyon Palmer (Carlin)
7. Jolyon Leal (Racing Engineering)
8. Tom Dillmann (RUSSIAN TIME)
9. Felipe Nasr (Carlin)
10. Robin Frijns (Hilmer)

Time for the Humble Pie?

It's not Cecotto's speed that's in question. It's his ability not to act like a monkey throwing his crap when under attack/attacking another driver.