The 2017 Silly Season thread

[girry]

Bah. They should buy it together and name it Ronale Racing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondel_Racing

[Spectoremg]

Bah. They should buy it together and name it Ronale Racing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondel_Racing

Nice to see the 'March' blue again. Any direct link with the teams?

[girry]

I wouldn't call it March blue. The colour entered F1 with the March Engineering team in 1987, but it was the colour of their sponsor Leyton House whose cars in sportscars & Japanese Formula Two ran the same shade even before that. March had never used it before, although they kept running light blue cars for the final season in F1 even with Leyton House having pulled out - but I guess that was simply out of habit now.

Since they were a Japanese company, I highly doubt there's a link with Leyton House and Rondel Racing - although I would be amused if anyone discovered one!

[Spectoremg]

I wouldn't call it March blue. The colour entered F1 with the March Engineering team in 1987, but it was the colour of their sponsor Leyton House whose cars in sportscars & Japanese Formula Two ran the same shade even before that. March had never used it before, although they kept running light blue cars for the final season in F1 even with Leyton House having pulled out - but I guess that was simply out of habit now.

Since they were a Japanese company, I highly doubt there's a link with Leyton House and Rondel Racing - although I would be amused if anyone discovered one!

Thanks for that - just curious.

[mario]

So, news has come through that Mercedes have come to an agreement with Sauber to place Wehrlein there in 2017, leaving Nasr out of the team. It therefore means that Manor are the only team left which have not yet confirmed their line up for 2017, in part because of the takeover talks - inevitably, there is now speculation that Nasr, if he is able to maintain some level of sponsorship, may be looking to them as a way of staying in the sport. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/saube ... 17-862405/

If I'm honest, I'm not sure how much better off Wehrlein is likely to be at Sauber - I have a feeling that they won't be much more competitive in 2017 than they were this year, especially with 2016 spec engines in their car, and given that Ericsson doesn't seem to be that highly rated, Wehrlein will need to beat him fairly solidly to avoid negatively impacting his career.

[IceG]

It therefore means that Manor are the only team left which have not yet confirmed their line up for 2017

Cough, Mercedes cough,

[watka]

So, news has come through that Mercedes have come to an agreement with Sauber to place Wehrlein there in 2017, leaving Nasr out of the team. It therefore means that Manor are the only team left which have not yet confirmed their line up for 2017, in part because of the takeover talks - inevitably, there is now speculation that Nasr, if he is able to maintain some level of sponsorship, may be looking to them as a way of staying in the sport. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/saube ... 17-862405/

If I'm honest, I'm not sure how much better off Wehrlein is likely to be at Sauber - I have a feeling that they won't be much more competitive in 2017 than they were this year, especially with 2016 spec engines in their car, and given that Ericsson doesn't seem to be that highly rated, Wehrlein will need to beat him fairly solidly to avoid negatively impacting his career.

Yes, that's a risky move from Wehrlein's perspective but if it's what Mercedes want then he can hardly argue against it. Ocon was on par with him last year despite Ocon only coming in part way through the season so you have to wonder whether Pascal is really going to be Mercedes material in the long run.

[Aislabie]

If Manor go with Nasr and Gutierrez for 2017, that would be a remarkably uninspiring pair, though they would presumably bring in some serious moolah, which they'll need if they want to continue using Mercedes engines without any Mercedes juniors in the team.

I'd have quite liked to see one of the exciting GP2 drivers get a shot - Giovinazzi, Ghiotto or Sirotkin - even though they'd be wasted in a Sauber or Manor.

[Dj_bereta]

Nasr is talking already about the possibility of not getting a race seat for the next season. He could be forced to be a third driver or something. I don't think he will grab one of the Manor seats, especially considering the team ran with three rookies in last season.

[FMecha]

Indonesian press are reporting that Haryanto won't take part in 2017.

[Aislabie]

Interesting that you say that, because a report I saw a few weeks ago said that Manor had a four-man shortlist for 2017:

Esteban Gutierrez: "Approximately a 70% chance of racing next year."
Rio Haryanto: Has already failed once to get money together.
Felipe Nasr: Apparently considering a third driver role.
Pascal Wehrlein: Linked with Sauber.

Tom Dillmann just won Formula V8, so I think we can rule that out as a source of drivers. The top two GP2 drivers are contracted with Red Bull and Ferrari respectively. The GP3 winner is already contracted in GP2; the F3 winner is contracted at Williams.

Sirotkin might be worth a go - he was quick on Fridays for Renault. Or Lynn/King if you want a British driver, but they both found themselves behind the mighty Norman Nato.

Unless they're looking to blag a Super Licence for a really left-field choice, maybe someone like Marco Wittmann, Santiago Urrutia or Max Gunther, I really don't see that they have many options left.

[cretoxyrhina]

Haryanto loses Pertamina backing, which could means that there will be no sponsorship clash for him to drive for a Petronas-sponsored team

[mario]

It therefore means that Manor are the only team left which have not yet confirmed their line up for 2017

Cough, Mercedes cough,

Fair point - I must admit that I'd been adjusting the post in a hurry and meant that to read "not yet confirmed either driver in their line up" when referring to Manor.

If Manor go with Nasr and Gutierrez for 2017, that would be a remarkably uninspiring pair, though they would presumably bring in some serious moolah, which they'll need if they want to continue using Mercedes engines without any Mercedes juniors in the team.

I'd have quite liked to see one of the exciting GP2 drivers get a shot - Giovinazzi, Ghiotto or Sirotkin - even though they'd be wasted in a Sauber or Manor.

Giovinazzi seems to be out of the running given that he is going over to Prema, and he might well feel that he has a chance at coming in to Sauber for 2018 if he has a strong second season in GP2 and given Ferrari's links with Sauber.

Gutierrez may be an option, though there have been some suggestions that the Slim family will cut back on its sponsorship if Gutierrez loses his ties with Ferrari, making him less attractive. As for Nasr, the issue there is that, with Banco do Brasil cutting its sponsorship, the financial incentive for taking him also lessens. I agree that, with the rumours of a takeover swirling in the background and the potential loss of revenue from losing out to Sauber in the WCC, Manor are in a bit of a difficult position and with fewer options than they might have liked.

[andrew]

Umm Mario, Giovanazzi has not singed for Prema in 2017. The Prema gp2 lineup is Antonio Fuoco and Charles Leclerc.
Giovanazzi has not confirmed anything for 2017.

[mario]

Umm Mario, Giovanazzi has not singed for Prema in 2017. The Prema gp2 lineup is Antonio Fuoco and Charles Leclerc.
Giovanazzi has not confirmed anything for 2017.

Right, I guess that is perhaps a sign that perhaps that cold has taken more out of me than I first thought - I even commented about Leclerc and Fuoco getting contracts for 2017 with Prema, so I should have known that was the case.

[watka]

Just thinking about this from Manor's perspective, it's a pretty grim outlook for the future. Not only did they finish last in the championship, losing out on sponsorship money, but there doesn't seem to be any drivers out there that can bring the right kind of money to the table. All the big teams' junior drivers are lined up with other drives - the only thing I can think of is Red Bull placing Gasly at Manor in the same way they did with Ricciardo in HRT.

[Miguel98]

Just thinking about this from Manor's perspective, it's a pretty grim outlook for the future. Not only did they finish last in the championship, losing out on sponsorship money, but there doesn't seem to be any drivers out there that can bring the right kind of money to the table. All the big teams' junior drivers are lined up with other drives - the only thing I can think of is Red Bull placing Gasly at Manor in the same way they did with Ricciardo in HRT.

Gasly has been confirmed as doing a Vandoorne and racing in Super Formula.

[mario]

So, it would seem that we have now entered that phase where the first enquiries start circulating as to the legality of other teams cars, and we have quite the argument brewing here.

It is being reported that Ferrari has raised questions with the FIA about the legality of the suspension systems that Mercedes and Red Bull have been running in recent years by questioning the use of systems " by which some of the energy recovered from the forces and displacements at the wheel can be stored for release at a later time" (such as a hydraulic accumulator). Whiting has responded by saying that the FIA would view such a system as being illegal, and it now looks as if a number of teams are currently pursuing their own enquiries with the FIA as to whether their planned suspension systems for 2017 would be legal.

As it stands, the indication is that Mercedes and Red Bull are likely to be hit quite badly. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-su ... 62612/?s=1

Meanwhile, the Italian branch of the Motorsport website has claimed that Mercedes has launched a separate enquiry into the legality of the front bulkhead design that Red Bull used on the RB12 and appear to have planned on reusing for their 2017 car. Their complaint is that Red Bull's design features slots in the bulkhead which break the minimum cross sectional and minimum radius regulations for the bulkhead. http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/merced ... ll-862861/

The indication is that the final ruling on the legality of the bulkhead won't come until February - it is intended to be resolved during a technical working group meeting, since the final ruling will also impact on the upcoming regulation package for the 2018 season.

[IceG]

Sky News (UK) were running a ticker this morning which suggested that Manor were close to going into administration - I cannot find a more substantive or authoritative source though.

http://news.sky.com/story/manor-f1-team ... t-10719424

[Londoner]

Sky News (UK) were running a ticker this morning which suggested that Manor were close to going into administration - I cannot find a more substantive or authoritative source though.

http://news.sky.com/story/manor-f1-team ... t-10719424

The fact that as the 11th placed team in the WCC, they're not entitled any TV money is quite frankly a bathplug disgrace. In no other sports would such a system be allowed.

Also, the Wehrlein to Sauber deal now makes a whole lot more sense in light of this.

[novitopoli]

Sky News (UK) were running a ticker this morning which suggested that Manor were close to going into administration - I cannot find a more substantive or authoritative source though.

http://news.sky.com/story/manor-f1-team ... t-10719424

The fact that as the 11th placed team in the WCC, they're not entitled any TV money is quite frankly a bathplug disgrace. In no other sports would such a system be allowed.

Also, the Wehrlein to Sauber deal now makes a whole lot more sense in light of this.

Autosport is suggesting that too.
I fear there won't be any miracle this time. They gambled last year, it didn't work out as expected...

[yannicksamlad]

Sky News (UK) were running a ticker this morning which suggested that Manor were close to going into administration - I cannot find a more substantive or authoritative source though.

http://news.sky.com/story/manor-f1-team ... t-10719424

Autosport is suggesting that too.
I fear there won't be any miracle this time. They gambled last year, it didn't work out as expected...

Oh dear ....are we going back to only 20 cars on the grid? F1 isn healthy if its undersubscribed. If there isnt the supply to fill the grid then the economics aren't working. Similarly with the supply of circuits hosting races; its not healthy if Sepang, Silverstone , Hockenheim, Nurburgring etc aren't supplying . I'm feeling a bit pessimistic now - only 20 drivers/cars so less 'human interest', a spread out field with the new rules ( could someone even fall outside 107%?) , cars with so much grip they don't look that special and are easy to drive flat out through more corners, shorter braking areas so less overtaking ....
Dont get me wrong - it'll still be gripping, with extraordinary skills and technology, but F1 seems to be missing the chance to be far better

[andrew]

Manor has just entered administration.

[CoopsII]

Sky News (UK) were running a ticker this morning which suggested that Manor were close to going into administration - I cannot find a more substantive or authoritative source though.

http://news.sky.com/story/manor-f1-team ... t-10719424

The fact that as the 11th placed team in the WCC, they're not entitled any TV money is quite frankly a bathplug disgrace. In no other sports would such a system be allowed.

Also, the Wehrlein to Sauber deal now makes a whole lot more sense in light of this.

Yup, it looks like it's over and right now Mr Ecclestone is doing this...



He's got what he wanted; ten teams and I don't know why teams bother trying to break into the top ten when the cards are stacked so firmly against them (other than, well, money and success if another team folds obvs).

[Ataxia]

Remember when Stephen Fitzpatrick was heralded as the saviour of Manor, and Barbazza was a little sceptical? You were right.

I'm not entirely in agreement that FOM is solely to blame here, but it looks more like Fitzpatrick gave his team the brief of bagging a fluke result so he could make them more saleable with a greater portion of prize money. Let's look at the (alleged) evidence here (this is me throwing Eddie Jordan levels of shite here, hoping some will stick):

We know that, in the words of Kevin Magnussen, the Manor was "a rocket on the straights". This suggests that the team were going for a Force India 2009 "strategy" to try and get a big result at Spa or Monza, leapfrogging Sauber in the process. Now, remember when John Booth and Graeme Lowden left the team because of "artistic" differences or whatever? I think they disagreed with that strategy and didn't want the team they'd built up from the ground to be a pawn in Fitzpatrick's alleged quest for cash. So, Dave Ryan comes in; although he's got tons of F1 experience, he comes back in with his tail between his legs after Radiogate in 2009. He wants to do a good job, so he toes the Fitzpatrick line.

Now, things go initially well. Wehrlein gets the point at Austria, and Haryanto doesn't make a fool of himself either. However, the Indonesian government decide not to bankroll him further. Fitzpatrick doesn't make any concessions; he sees that Ocon is available and figures that he'd have a chance of helping them keep 10th in the championship battle. Then, Brazil changed everything. Suddenly, it's more difficult to sell a team 11th in the WCC with a great deal less money available.

Administration for the Manor team is the final gambit. At a knock-down price, a buyer might be more forthcoming; the F1 entry itself is owned by a different company, and this can still be sold.

Allegedly.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Remember when Stephen Fitzpatrick was heralded as the saviour of Manor, and Barbazza was a little sceptical? You were right.

I'm not entirely in agreement that FOM is solely to blame here, but it looks more like Fitzpatrick gave his team the brief of bagging a fluke result so he could make them more saleable with a greater portion of prize money. Let's look at the (alleged) evidence here (this is me throwing Eddie Jordan levels of shite here, hoping some will stick):

We know that, in the words of Kevin Magnussen, the Manor was "a rocket on the straights". This suggests that the team were going for a Force India 2009 "strategy" to try and get a big result at Spa or Monza, leapfrogging Sauber in the process. Now, remember when John Booth and Graeme Lowden left the team because of "artistic" differences or whatever? I think they disagreed with that strategy and didn't want the team they'd built up from the ground to be a pawn in Fitzpatrick's alleged quest for cash. So, Dave Ryan comes in; although he's got tons of F1 experience, he comes back in with his tail between his legs after Radiogate in 2009. He wants to do a good job, so he toes the Fitzpatrick line.

Now, things go initially well. Wehrlein gets the point at Austria, and Haryanto doesn't make a fool of himself either. However, the Indonesian government decide not to bankroll him further. Fitzpatrick doesn't make any concessions; he sees that Ocon is available and figures that he'd have a chance of helping them keep 10th in the championship battle. Then, Brazil changed everything. Suddenly, it's more difficult to sell a team 11th in the WCC with a great deal less money available.

Administration for the Manor team is the final gambit. At a knock-down price, a buyer might be more forthcoming; the F1 entry itself is owned by a different company, and this can still be sold.

Allegedly.

GP Rejects, sponsored by one big "Called it".

Allegedly

[This Could Be You]

Zoran Stefanovic, we need you! (Phoenix/Qadbak/Ron Dennis will do, just could someone buy Manor!)

[dinizintheoven]

GP Rejects, sponsored by one big "Called it".

As did I.

Unfortunately.

[Barbazza]

Remember when Stephen Fitzpatrick was heralded as the saviour of Manor, and Barbazza was a little sceptical? You were right.

I'd usually be pleased as punch to be proven correct. But this is the saddest case of 'told you so' that I can recall.

One more reason to make F1 a more peripheral interest this year I'm afraid....

[Waris]

Now I feel really bad about having cheered for Sauber when they scored that point at Interlagos. I was feeling sad for them because they hadn't scored any the year before...

[Wallio]

NBC's reporting of it closes with this line:

“Manor Grand Prix Racing Ltd, the sister company of JRSL, which has the rights for the team’s participation in F1 is not in administration."

What does that even mean? Is the team done or not?

[tommykl]

NBC's reporting of it closes with this line:

“Manor Grand Prix Racing Ltd, the sister company of JRSL, which has the rights for the team’s participation in F1 is not in administration."

What does that even mean? Is the team done or not?

That means the team and the team's entry are owned by different companies, so if someone buys the team, the entry is still valid.

[Wallio]

NBC's reporting of it closes with this line:

“Manor Grand Prix Racing Ltd, the sister company of JRSL, which has the rights for the team’s participation in F1 is not in administration."

What does that even mean? Is the team done or not?

That means the team and the team's entry are owned by different companies, so if someone buys the team, the entry is still valid.

So could someone pull a Stefan and just buy the entry?

[Ataxia]

That means the team and the team's entry are owned by different companies, so if someone buys the team, the entry is still valid.

So could someone pull a Stefan and just buy the entry?

Nothing like that; Stefan didn't have an entry (or any assets) and although they tried to purchase USF1's, they couldn't. Any purchase would essentially be a redux of Manor's rescue in 2015.

[WeirdKerr]

could someone do a phoenix?

[Nessafox]

could someone do a phoenix?

I'd rather see someone succesfully taking them over.

[Dj_bereta]

Gutierrez moving to Formula E is a sign Manor will not survive . Nasr F1 career is almost over too.

[IceG]

So Vasseur has left Renault http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38582110

and Lowe has left Mercedes (probably) for Williams.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38571408

[AustralianStig]

So Vasseur has left Renault http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38582110

and Lowe has left Mercedes (probably) for Williams.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38571408

Adam Cooper seems to think Lowe would be a better fit at Renault, hinting that Paddy would have a bit of a power struggle with Claire and Sir Frank.

[CoopsII]

Fellow on HuffPost makes some good points, many of which we've made on here in the past...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tim-goodchild/bernie-ecclestone_b_14042534.html