Grand Prix Rejects

Klon wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:Except that she isn't good enough, and would struggle endlessly - which would end in discrediting the idea of women in Formula 1.

The idea is already discredited, otherwise we would have more than five female F1-Fahrer (I had to use German there, I couldn't let that beautiful alliteration splip past) in the history of our sport, furthermore rookies struggle always, so unless that woman gets put in a top car from the outlet, female drivers are always going to hurt their cause following your logic so ... there is no hope for female race drivers at all.

Love the alliteration! But yeah, your point has validity. After all, we have already gone nearly 20 years since Amati's failed attempts, the longest in the sport's history without a woman trying (de Filippis in the late 1950s, Lella Lombardi and Davina Galica in the mid-1970s, Desire Wilson in 1980, and Giovanna Amati in 1992. The mid- to late- 1970s seemed to be the heyday, despite the influx of female drivers elsewhere recently, particularly in IndyCar.

And Captain, Milka Duno, as you said, is already not good enough, and people know that - they are not going to discredit all female drivers by her performance. That would be like discrediting all Japanese drivers by Yuji Ide's performances in the Super Aguri...

dr-baker wrote:

Klon wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:Except that she isn't good enough, and would struggle endlessly - which would end in discrediting the idea of women in Formula 1.

The idea is already discredited, otherwise we would have more than five female F1-Fahrer (I had to use German there, I couldn't let that beautiful alliteration splip past) in the history of our sport, furthermore rookies struggle always, so unless that woman gets put in a top car from the outlet, female drivers are always going to hurt their cause following your logic so ... there is no hope for female race drivers at all.

Love the alliteration! But yeah, your point has validity. After all, we have already gone nearly 20 years since Amati's failed attempts, the longest in the sport's history without a woman trying (de Filippis in the late 1950s, Lella Lombardi and Davina Galica in the mid-1970s, Desire Wilson in 1980, and Giovanna Amati in 1992. The mid- to late- 1970s seemed to be the heyday, despite the influx of female drivers elsewhere recently, particularly in IndyCar.

And Captain, Milka Duno, as you said, is already not good enough, and people know that - they are not going to discredit all female drivers by her performance. That would be like discrediting all Japanese drivers by Yuji Ide's performances in the Super Aguri...

You forgot the cliché thing, dr-baker. The Japanese drivers don't have to fight off a "this is a non-Japanese sport", but women on the other hand probably listen to "this is a man's sport" crap everyday.

On a further note, I think that having a F1 history made almost of mediocre pay-drivers can't help the Japanese cause either...

DanielPT wrote:You forgot the cliché thing, dr-baker. The Japanese drivers don't have to fight off a "this is a non-Japanese sport", but women on the other hand probably listen to "this is a man's sport" crap everyday.

On a further note, I think that having a F1 history made almost of mediocre pay-drivers can't help the Japanese cause either...

True. But basically my point was that you can't write off a whole group based on one person's performance, particularly when they are known underperformers...

dr-baker wrote:And Captain, Milka Duno, as you said, is already not good enough, and people know that

Actually, I was talking about your suggestion of Maria de Villota:

dr-baker wrote:I would still like to see Maria de Villota in the second HRT seat, though!

Italian press are reporting that the Raikkonen-Williams deal is off after the sponsors allegedly lost interest in Raikkonen. Raikkonen fans were quick to dismiss the article, despite it coming from the same publication that reported Raikkonen leaving in 2009.

DanielPT wrote:You forgot the cliché thing, dr-baker. The Japanese drivers don't have to fight off a "this is a non-Japanese sport", but women on the other hand probably listen to "this is a man's sport" crap everyday.

On a further note, I think that having a F1 history made almost of mediocre pay-drivers can't help the Japanese cause either...

The only woman who is media-savvy and egotistical enough to deal with that is already headed to the ultimate lion's den of that attitude -- NASCAR. (Sidenote: Danicamania paved the way for Simona de Silvestro and, in all likelihood, Pippa Mann's careers in the IRL...) Seriously, look at every female driver that's attempted to get into NASCAR and you'll find out that most of them have wound up put into the wall by someone else doing something stupid whenever they have a decent race going.

This especially applies to Erin Crocker, who was on course to finish like 6th or 7th in her first start at Dover (no mean feat) before Justin Labonte turned her around in a straight line for no good reason...

...and then there's the Human Pinball, Johanna Long, who actually isn't that bad of a driver if she isn't crashing. I consider no NASCAR truck race complete without Johanna Long spinning or getting spun at some point.

Captain Hammer wrote:Italian press are reporting that the Raikkonen-Williams deal is off after the sponsors allegedly lost interest in Raikkonen. Raikkonen fans were quick to dismiss the article, despite it coming from the same publication that reported Raikkonen leaving in 2009.

Considering how much I have (or rather, haven't) heard about Raikkonen and Williams lately, and with the number of different drivers I've heard going to Williams, I could very well believe that Raikkonen's backers pulled out.

Captain Hammer wrote:Italian press are reporting that the Raikkonen-Williams deal is off after the sponsors allegedly lost interest in Raikkonen. Raikkonen fans were quick to dismiss the article, despite it coming from the same publication that reported Raikkonen leaving in 2009.

Oh well. It's probably for the best.

BBC are reporting that Robert Kubica will miss at least the start of the 2012 season (via Renault) :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15853406.stm

madmark1974 wrote:BBC are reporting that Robert Kubica will miss at least the start of the 2012 season (via Renault) :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15853406.stm

So is Autosport.

Captain Hammer wrote:

dr-baker wrote:And Captain, Milka Duno, as you said, is already not good enough, and people know that

Actually, I was talking about your suggestion of Maria de Villota:

dr-baker wrote:I would still like to see Maria de Villota in the second HRT seat, though!

I really should go back and double-check, not just read the most recent posts...

Captain Hammer wrote:Italian press are reporting that the Raikkonen-Williams deal is off after the sponsors allegedly lost interest in Raikkonen. Raikkonen fans were quick to dismiss the article, despite it coming from the same publication that reported Raikkonen leaving in 2009.

I can imagine the meeting between Kimi and his sponsors:

Sponsors: So, Kimi, Williams have agreed to our terms. Are you happy to be back to F1?

Kimi: Yes.

S: Now, Kimi, we need you completely motivated for this, ok?

K: I want an Ice cream.

S: Seriously, everyone is worried that you could not be 100% motivated, including us as we are trying to avoid another NASCAR debacle...

K: We were so bathplugging sh**e!

S: We already know that. Even so, Williams asked us for you to be present in Brazil to show everyone that you care. Do you agree on this?

K: No, I'm having a s**t.

S: Bathplug this, we are pulling off!

Felipe Massa reckons Ruby should retire. Oh dear...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96405

jpm wrote:Felipe Massa reckons Ruby should retire. Oh dear...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96405

The most curious thing about this is that this piece of advice could have come the other way. Rubens telling Massa to retire!

jpm wrote:Felipe Massa reckons Ruby should retire.

Only if Barichello needs to find sponsors to get a seat in 2012.

I'm the only one who translate Felipe's words as "Make room, as I'll be in need of a seat next years"?

Jack O Melley wrote:I'm the only one who translate Felipe's words as "Make room, as I'll be in need of a seat next years"?

Given that Domenicali recently stated, quite clearly, that Ferrari won't renew his contract unless he improves his performance considerably next year, Massa will probably be on his way out of the team, and possibly the sport, sooner rather than later. Given that, it looks a little unwise to be advising others to retire when his own seat at Ferrari is increasingly in doubt...

I did read an article on James Allen's site about De La Rosa's move to HRT and he mentioned that within the next week or so there will a host of driver announcements, and of them he expects Raikonnen's move to Williams to be completed. It's not saying much, but you can't say JA doesn't know his stuff, so who knows?!

the lady driver has apparantly got the reserve driver role for fps with lrgp

S951 wrote:the lady driver has apparantly got the reserve driver role for fps with lrgp

What? Where did you saw that? I cannot confirm it anywhere...

DanielPT wrote:

S951 wrote:the lady driver has apparantly got the reserve driver role for fps with lrgp

What? Where did you saw that? I cannot confirm it anywhere...

English language media hasn't picked up on it yet. Story here.

kostas22 wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

S951 wrote:the lady driver has apparantly got the reserve driver role for fps with lrgp

What? Where did you saw that? I cannot confirm it anywhere...

English language media hasn't picked up on it yet. Story here.

I've babelfished it (to save you the hassle) - here are a few select extracts (in 'Spanglish') :

"Maria de Villota advances that she has reached an agreement with the Lotus equipment and that “only lacking the company/signature” to make it official."

"The Spanish will be the pilot resreva of escudería as of 2012 and she already has thought to spend all the next month of December training"

"The objective that marks Maria is well clear: to spend 2012 as pilot reserves and to give the jump in 2013."

That's a team a bit higher up the grid than I would be expecting a 'lady driver' to sign with ... Well done her if it all goes through!

Kubica is given without a contract for 2012, according to his own manager Daniele Morelli. I imagine this, if true, would give an incredible jolt to next year grid.

madmark1974 wrote:

kostas22 wrote:English language media hasn't picked up on it yet. Story here.

I've babelfished it (to save you the hassle) - here are a few select extracts (in 'Spanglish') :

"Maria de Villota advances that she has reached an agreement with the Lotus equipment and that “only lacking the company/signature” to make it official."

"The Spanish will be the pilot resreva of escudería as of 2012 and she already has thought to spend all the next month of December training"

"The objective that marks Maria is well clear: to spend 2012 as pilot reserves and to give the jump in 2013."

That's a team a bit higher up the grid than I would be expecting a 'lady driver' to sign with ... Well done her if it all goes through!

Lotus are really desperate for money and attention, are they? They are becoming very fast one of the backmarkers of the grid, I believe. And all signs lead that 2012 could be worse than the current year. Unless the 2012 car is a complete overhaul than the R31, which might happen as they still have some expertise left in the team, then they may find themselves behind both Williams and Caterham...

Having said that, it is well known that the Spanish media aren't the most reliable news source in Europe. Specially when it comes to promote their drivers...

I speak good Spanish! She says that she's been negotiating since summer and hopes to spend next year as a reserve before racing in 2013. She refuses to admit that at 31, she's too old to be a rookie... However she won't be driving in free practice at Brazil, they already have Grosjean confirmed for that.

Here's the original article.

http://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/ ... rma-88279/

Autosport reporting that Jan Charouz will drive in practise.

S951 wrote:the lady driver has apparantly got the reserve driver role for fps with lrgp

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96427

Shame, he could have been revered as a sportscar great, but will now surely tarnish his name as an F1 backmarker. Unless we see this as HRT getting the wonga now so they don't need a Dani Clos or Nathaniel Berthon next year and can get a good driver - whoever looses out at Force India or a Red Bull junior.

i think ruby and schumi should both retire.
they've both established their place in the midfield.

Gordon Bennett! Could this possibly be true? Maria de Villota really making the grade? And there I was, thinking I was spouting forth hot air!

jpm wrote:I speak good Spanish! She says that she's been negotiating since summer and hopes to spend next year as a reserve before racing in 2013. She refuses to admit that at 31, she's too old to be a rookie...

Sébastien Bourdais was unavailable for comment.

dinizintheoven wrote:

jpm wrote:I speak good Spanish! She says that she's been negotiating since summer and hopes to spend next year as a reserve before racing in 2013. She refuses to admit that at 31, she's too old to be a rookie...

Sébastien Bourdais was unavailable for comment.

Neither was Damon Hill...

jpm wrote:Unless we see this as HRT getting the wonga now so they don't need a Dani Clos or Nathaniel Berthon next year and can get a good driver - whoever looses out at Force India or a Red Bull junior.

I think Berthon was actually pretty impressive at the young driver tests. He was a late addition to the team's line-up and he had one of the smallest testing programs over the three days - but he was just seven tenths of a second behind Tonio Liuzzi's qualifying time in the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. If he had a much moer comprehensive test program, he probably would have gotten even closer.

Captain Hammer wrote:

jpm wrote:Unless we see this as HRT getting the wonga now so they don't need a Dani Clos or Nathaniel Berthon next year and can get a good driver - whoever looses out at Force India or a Red Bull junior.

I think Berthon was actually pretty impressive at the young driver tests. He was a late addition to the team's line-up and he had one of the smallest testing programs over the three days - but he was just seven tenths of a second behind Tonio Liuzzi's qualifying time in the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. If he had a much moer comprehensive test program, he probably would have gotten even closer.

Well, remember that the tests are taking place in completely different weather and track conditions, which are evidently better than when qualifying took place, and so, times will have dropped fairly.

Interesting complication over at Force India, it seems - the BBC are reporting that Hulkenberg has stated he is prepared to leave Formula 1 if he does not find a permanent race seat for next year (and expects to find out whether he will be driving for Force India or not within the next two weeks). OK, the current opinion in the press seems to be that Hulkenberg will still replace Sutil, but it does seem to have raised the prospect that it may be Hulkenberg, not Sutil, who is going to leave the team next year...

The latest news of the Silly Season is that Adrian Sutil might be replacing Rubens Barrichello at Williams.

Ferrim wrote:The latest news of the Silly Season is that Adrian Sutil might be replacing Rubens Barrichello at Williams.

Well, these rumours are really nothing new - and it would be an awful decision.

Brundle said in the commentary today that Raikkonen will not be going to Williams.

In brazilian tv coverage of brazilian gp, Lucas Di Grassi says he has a proposal for run in next year.

I think it must be for HRT.

GwilymJJames wrote:Brundle said in the commentary today that Raikkonen will not be going to Williams.

He probably wouldn't have done well anyways!

Hulkenburg said to the BBC he was quite sure of a drive next season and would find out for sure in a couple of weeks.
Eric Boullier has also stated today Renault will confirm their driver lineup in two weeks.

It's a long shot but perhaps there is a connection here...?

kostas22 wrote:Hulkenburg said to the BBC he was quite sure of a drive next season and would find out for sure in a couple of weeks.
Eric Boullier has also stated today Renault will confirm their driver lineup in two weeks.

It's a long shot but perhaps there is a connection here...?

I very much doubt it, Hulkenberg looks like staying at Force India for the next couple of years. Anyway, about Toro Rosso, Buemi's been very unlucky this season. I prefer Alguersuari but Buemi doesn't deserve to lose his seat either. Couldve had points at Belgium and India until rear-wing and engine failure respectively. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both at STR again next year.

AdrianSutil wrote:

kostas22 wrote:Hulkenburg said to the BBC he was quite sure of a drive next season and would find out for sure in a couple of weeks.
Eric Boullier has also stated today Renault will confirm their driver lineup in two weeks.

It's a long shot but perhaps there is a connection here...?

I very much doubt it, Hulkenberg looks like staying at Force India for the next couple of years. Anyway, about Toro Rosso, Buemi's been very unlucky this season. I prefer Alguersuari but Buemi doesn't deserve to lose his seat either. Couldve had points at Belgium and India until rear-wing and engine failure respectively. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both at STR again next year.

I reckon he had a chance of points at Abu Dhabi and Japan as well.

He was ahead of DJ Squire at India as well before engine failure. I can't see toro rosso sacking either tbh.