Ponderbox

[yannicksamlad]

Well, I guess the numbers are down but the ones that still watch F1 are the important ones, the ones they want, demographics etc.

Plus there's probably other ways of watching that aren't measurable, online highlights clips etc.

For me I think F1 wants to chase new fans ( hence sprint races etc ) as well as keeping longer term fans who might be getting a little bored with Mercedes domination , but there is a huge risk that it attracts interest without attracting money. Fans who like to follow F1 on social media and just watch the free F1 videos and highlights, who dont buy a £40 team T shirt .. how much advertising income do they generate for F1?
Whereas those who pay for Sky , and will buy a race ticket for £400 are the ones keeping F1 in money.

[CoopsII]

It always seems strange to me to hear of “fans” getting bored of F1 being dominated by Mercedes / Red Bull / Ferrari / McLaren / Williams etc as it makes me think they’re missing the point of it.

[Francophone]

It always seems strange to me to hear of “fans” getting bored of F1 being dominated by Mercedes / Red Bull / Ferrari / McLaren / Williams etc as it makes me think they’re missing the point of it.

I couldn't agree more. What Mercedes is doing is pretty much unrivalled across all sport - to have dominance happening so long and to put together a team culture to sustain it is remarkable in itself and worth watching.

I know reliability was a thing in 1992 but I also wonder how current audiences would deal with a season like that where the FW14B in the hands of Mansell would just destroy everything , even Senna in his McLaren was nearly 3s off pole in P3 at Silverstone that year!

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

With the current trend of having two races back to back at a single circuit, would the logistics work so that one of the races could be run anti-clockwise? Somewhere like Austria with few corners would be easy in turns of the run off areas,barriers,pit lane exit/entry surely? It'd give more of a sense of variety to the races.

[CaptainGetz12]

With the current trend of having two races back to back at a single circuit, would the logistics work so that one of the races could be run anti-clockwise? Somewhere like Austria with few corners would be easy in turns of the run off areas,barriers,pit lane exit/entry surely? It'd give more of a sense of variety to the races.

It probably would need to be graded separately by the FIA to be deemed safe. The only non-oval I know is graded for racing in both directions is Knockhill.

[Spectoremg]

Is anyone high on gummy bears?

[Klon]

Is anyone high on gummy bears?

No, Hiyoko, we are not.

[CoopsII]

I wonder what Liberty will come up with next to “spice up the racing”? - which is a phrase I’ve grown to despise as much as “ I’m not racist, but…”

Certainly their ‘chuck ideas in blender and see what happens’ approach means literally anything’s possible.

Anyone want to hazard a guess?

[Rob Dylan]

I wonder what Liberty will come up with next to “spice up the racing”? - which is a phrase I’ve grown to despise as much as “ I’m not racist, but…”

Certainly their ‘chuck ideas in blender and see what happens’ approach means literally anything’s possible.

Anyone want to hazard a guess?

I've been feeling actually that the 3-4 hour rule will have another moment soon enough. I think that if they can stop the time, we're going to have a race where the time starts, then they stop the clock after 20 minutes because of too much rain. Then because of the washout they host the race on the Monday instead, and we get a 24+hour Formula 1 race

[mario]

I wonder what Liberty will come up with next to “spice up the racing”? - which is a phrase I’ve grown to despise as much as “ I’m not racist, but…”

Certainly their ‘chuck ideas in blender and see what happens’ approach means literally anything’s possible.

Anyone want to hazard a guess?

Going by the introduction of the overtaking award, it is probably going to be some sort of similarly tacky "award" that can be sold for more sponsorship opportunities, but can be introduced relatively cheaply and easily.

Given that there is already a poll position trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if the next move is something like a "most fastest laps" trophy, or perhaps some sort of award for winning the most sprint races.

[CoopsII]

Going by the introduction of the overtaking award, it is probably going to be some sort of similarly tacky "award" that can be sold for more sponsorship opportunities, but can be introduced relatively cheaply and easily.

Given that there is already a poll position trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if the next move is something like a "most fastest laps" trophy, or perhaps some sort of award for winning the most sprint races.

[Nuppiz]

Going by the introduction of the overtaking award, it is probably going to be some sort of similarly tacky "award" that can be sold for more sponsorship opportunities, but can be introduced relatively cheaply and easily.

Given that there is already a poll position trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if the next move is something like a "most fastest laps" trophy, or perhaps some sort of award for winning the most sprint races.

Isn't there already a fastest lap award sponsored by DHL?

[Rob Dylan]

Going by the introduction of the overtaking award, it is probably going to be some sort of similarly tacky "award" that can be sold for more sponsorship opportunities, but can be introduced relatively cheaply and easily.

Given that there is already a poll position trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if the next move is something like a "most fastest laps" trophy, or perhaps some sort of award for winning the most sprint races.

Isn't there already a fastest lap award sponsored by DHL?

Next thing they'll be handing out trophies for individual races! Oh wait

[Spectoremg]

Is Zandvoort Hungary with banked curves?

[UncreativeUsername37]

Is Zandvoort Hungary with banked curves?

Tarzanbocht = the old turn 1
Turn 3 = turn 2
Right-hand sweeper (the first one) = turn 5
Corner after that = turn 8
Short straight into secondary overtaking point near the end of the lap
Roughly square corner near the end = roughly square corner near the end

close enough

[Bleu]

I feel that some people who value just overtaking hated the battle between Alonso and Hamilton in Hungary and for them it would have been better if Hamilton had succeeded to overtake on the first try.

[UncreativeUsername37]

I feel that some people who value just overtaking hated the battle between Alonso and Hamilton in Hungary and for them it would have been better if Hamilton had succeeded to overtake on the first try.

I remember someone once saying here (well, I think it was here) that a lot of battles from older races weren't exciting because you knew they wouldn't overtake and a lot of battles from newer races weren't exciting because you knew they would overtake.

I want to add something to that, but my mind has gone a few different directions and none of them are awfully insightful....

[Nessafox]

I feel that some people who value just overtaking hated the battle between Alonso and Hamilton in Hungary and for them it would have been better if Hamilton had succeeded to overtake on the first try.

I remember someone once saying here (well, I think it was here) that a lot of battles from older races weren't exciting because you knew they wouldn't overtake and a lot of battles from newer races weren't exciting because you knew they would overtake.

I want to add something to that, but my mind has gone a few different directions and none of them are awfully insightful....

Basically what we like to see is many hard-fought overtakes with a high difficulty level, but that might be impossible to happen in large numbers.

[mario]

Going by the introduction of the overtaking award, it is probably going to be some sort of similarly tacky "award" that can be sold for more sponsorship opportunities, but can be introduced relatively cheaply and easily.

Given that there is already a poll position trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if the next move is something like a "most fastest laps" trophy, or perhaps some sort of award for winning the most sprint races.

Isn't there already a fastest lap award sponsored by DHL?

Turns out there is, and it has actually been going since 2007 - looks like that concept has already been milked for sponsorship cash then.

As for what Liberty Media might try next, they've thrown up another one of their fan surveys and have thrown out the following ideas:
1) Success ballast;
2) Reintroducing refuelling during the race;
3) Making drivers use three compounds per race;
4) Using sprint qualifying races at every round of the season;
5) Introducing reverse races;
6) An additional race each weekend for reserve drivers to complete in.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/10/f1s ... ens-seidl/

Yes, Liberty Media are, once again, trying to push the idea of a reverse race - even though this idea was shot down repeatedly over the past couple of years, they still keep trying to reintroduce the concept.

As an offshoot of that fourth idea, they've also looked at modifying the sprint races - instead of having the finishing order of the sprint race set the starting order for Sunday, the sprint race would become a stand alone race, with the Friday qualifying session setting the grid for both Saturday and Sunday.

Given it would then become a separate race within the wider race weekend, Brawn is also toying with the idea of increasing the number of points paying positions for those sprint races. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-c ... 2/6663754/

Looking at the list, it does feel as if Liberty Media are looking at a lot of measures that will aggravate the current fan base - I can see a lot of comparisons with the way that NASCAR has been run in recent years, especially as some of the ideas were floated in NASCAR.

[Nessafox]

And yet we keep watching because we love the abuse, don't we?

[Rob Dylan]

I answered the survey and noticed all those same things. All their suggestions of "would you like to see" were mostly either rehashing old stuff or just terrible new ideas like the aforementioned success ballast.

Like all big company surveys, you have that feeling most of the questions are just directed to give the decision-makers the answers that they're already looking to justify. There was only one space for comment, at the very end, after what is a 15-20 minute survey. And of course most of the actual issues that bother me personally didn't arise.

So I wrote this in the comment box at the end:

"As a long-time fan, I think F1 has made a lot of good progress in recent years following Ecclestone leaving. However, there is still a lot of improvement to go. Every fan I know hates the 20+ race calendar. It is too long and saturated and dilutes the season show. F1 needs to encourage new teams. 20 cars is too small, and the sport is only hurting itself by putting extravagant fees on new entries for no reason. I was hoping that Liberty would stop this growing exclusivity of the sport, and while media-wise they have improved the sport's reputation, they have lost my trust after the Belgian Grand Prix this year after how they treated fans at the circuit and not offering refunds. Talk is easy, but there is much real change still needed."

It was the best I could do in the smallest space possible.

[mario]

And yet we keep watching because we love the abuse, don't we?

Well, it has to be said that most of the ideas they've been throwing out there haven't gone through yet.

Still, the way that Liberty have acted more recently is sowing the seeds for greater distrust. I suppose that some might wonder if Liberty Media might be seen as making the mistakes that NASCAR are often held up as having made - in other words, overestimating the loyalty of their original core audience when introducing gimmicks to interest a more casual crowd, but failing to secure either in the long term.

[BJ McLeod]

Honestly I don't mind a few of the various gimmicks in NASCAR, it is definitely fairly artificial at times, but entertaining




Except for the idea of moving the numbers forward. Looks terrible

[UncreativeUsername37]

I know it was touched on in IIDOTR, but with Leclerc not getting an endplate to the face, Grosjean not getting a barrier to the face, and now Hamilton, it feels like the halo was introduced just in time. I could cite multiple reasons it's a good thing F1's rules aren't decided by a council of longtime forumers, but safety matters is the best one.

[Aislabie]

I know it was touched on in IIDOTR, but with Leclerc not getting an endplate to the face, Grosjean not getting a barrier to the face, and now Hamilton, it feels like the halo was introduced just in time. I could cite multiple reasons it's a good thing F1's rules aren't decided by a council of longtime forumers, but safety matters is the best one.

It really highlights the extent of the run of good luck that Formula One had between 1994 and 2014 that nobody died despite so many incidents in which they very much could have done

[yannicksamlad]

I answered the survey and noticed all those same things. All their suggestions of "would you like to see" were mostly either rehashing old stuff or just terrible new ideas like the aforementioned success ballast.

Like all big company surveys, you have that feeling most of the questions are just directed to give the decision-makers the answers that they're already looking to justify. There was only one space for comment, at the very end, after what is a 15-20 minute survey. And of course most of the actual issues that bother me personally didn't arise.

So I wrote this in the comment box at the end:

"As a long-time fan, I think F1 has made a lot of good progress in recent years following Ecclestone leaving. However, there is still a lot of improvement to go. Every fan I know hates the 20+ race calendar. It is too long and saturated and dilutes the season show. F1 needs to encourage new teams. 20 cars is too small, and the sport is only hurting itself by putting extravagant fees on new entries for no reason. I was hoping that Liberty would stop this growing exclusivity of the sport, and while media-wise they have improved the sport's reputation, they have lost my trust after the Belgian Grand Prix this year after how they treated fans at the circuit and not offering refunds. Talk is easy, but there is much real change still needed."

It was the best I could do in the smallest space possible.

Well said. I'm not sure I was quite so comprehensive

[yannicksamlad]

I think I'm right in saying that over half the finishers in the Italian GP did their fastest laps on the last tour.
Despite marbles and tyre wear.
And yet we hear of drivers going 'as fast as they can' in the race earlier.
I know they have fuel saving, and tyre saving, and tyre saving has always been a thing in races of any distance. But I do suspect that drivers are routinely prevented from going as fast as they can because of some of the technical rules we have.
And in the Sprint it was noticeable how it seemed engine saving was an important factor ..because moving up a place on the grid wasn't worth the risk.
Do others feel the same?

[CoopsII]

I know it was touched on in IIDOTR, but with Leclerc not getting an endplate to the face, Grosjean not getting a barrier to the face, and now Hamilton, it feels like the halo was introduced just in time. I could cite multiple reasons it's a good thing F1's rules aren't decided by a council of longtime forumers, but safety matters is the best one.

And drivers too. I'm sure Hamilton didn't like the halo when it first appeared. I believe recent events have brought him round to the idea, though

[Bleu]

Has any F1 team signed any race driver due to money based on their own announcement? And if so, who is the most recent one?

[dinizintheoven]

Has any F1 team signed any race driver due to money based on their own announcement? And if so, who is the most recent one?

If any did, it was the Rejectissimi of the late 20th Century. These days, all you'll get is an obfuscated statement along these lines:

Guanyu Zhou will be a fine driver and the best possible partner for Valtteri Bottas in 2022, we genuinely believe he's a better bet than pinching Mick Schumacher from Haas even though it's the obvious thing to do because everyone wants to know if he's actually any good or not and being measured against Nikita Mazepin tells us nothing. Now, please ignore this massive pile of bags full of Chinese banknotes with Chairman Mao's face on them, that has absolutely nothing to do with it, nothing at all. In fact, pretend they don't even exist. And now, we would like to introduce our new sponsors: Hisense, Haier, TikTok, Baidu, Guangxi (the Trumpchi is based on an Alfa Romeo 166, don't you know), and King Chemical.

[CoopsII]

I'm currently pondering how great it is to see the forum in this format, and my pondering concludes "pretty dam good"!

[Nessafox]

I find it hard to read because light blue blackground.

[dr-baker]

I too like the current style but understand the need for change if it is not accessible for people. I wonder if the background colour could have a default setting with a few user selectable alternatives?

[Rob Dylan]

Yeah, I think a dark mode would be good for the forum as well as the main site. I'll ask the techies!

[dr-baker]

I've just noticed that the number of views that each thread gets has disappeared. I assume that was a deliberate decision during the recent refurbishment rather than by accident?

[Rob Dylan]

I've just noticed that the number of views that each thread gets has disappeared. I assume that was a deliberate decision during the recent refurbishment rather than by accident?

Interesting, as it still shows up on my screen. Could a third person (preferably not an admin) confirm whether or not they get to see thread view numbers?

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I can see the thread views number.

[dr-baker]

Is it possible that it is viewable on desktop but not mobile?

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Is it possible that it is viewable on desktop but not mobile?

I was viewing on desktop before, but just checked my phone and my iphone shows the views column as well.

[Bleu]

For a while I thought "see unread posts" had disappeared but luckily found it couple of days later.