2012 Brazilian Grand Prix discussion thread

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:49

Wow. Congratulations to Vettel for winning, even though I was rooting for Alonso. He drove another good race, and he's got a lot to thank Adrian Newey for given the strength of that Red Bull!

There weren't actually many outright dumb moments in this one despite the conditions were there?
The racing was pretty fair for the most part, I think Vettel / Senna was a racing incident, as was Hulkenberg / Hamilton - stewards definitely got that one wrong. Kobayashi's attempt to get past Michael was extremely optimistic. Di Resta's was probably the biggest mistake but that's more because of where he touched the white line.

Disappointed for Marussia but Petrov got the job done. Sky were saying that Glock was flying until Vergne hit him (I did wonder why Glock was suddenly at the back) so damn you, Frenchie!!

Oh and well done JB - almost forgotten in all the other stuff - and goodbye Schumi, thanks for the memories.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 25 Nov 2012, 19:55

All I have to say is that you make your own luck. It doesn't really matter if Vettel "deserved" the title. He was trying to win the title as much as Alonso, Hamilton, Button and Raikkonen. What else can you do? If things go your way, are you not going to take advantage?

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:02

And Vettel still lost more points due to out and out bad luck than Alonso, if you look at Valencia and Monza.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:08

Benetton wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Would've been fantastic to see the Hulk win it - for the penalty, to be honest, I don't see much problem with it. He should've known that it would be slippy off line, and set himself up for a run at Hamilton either at turn 4 or the next lap, not while they were still negotiating backmarkers.

I have to disagree here. As far as I'm concerned, I felt Hulkenberg saw his opportunity with the backmarker, who would've blocked Lewis for the next corner (Lewis wouldn't have had the inside line because the Caterham was there).

If that was his intention, then he should've aimed only to get his front wing in front of Hamilton, and used the Caterham to block Hamilton. I think he went to overtake Hamilton there and then.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:14

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Benetton wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Would've been fantastic to see the Hulk win it - for the penalty, to be honest, I don't see much problem with it. He should've known that it would be slippy off line, and set himself up for a run at Hamilton either at turn 4 or the next lap, not while they were still negotiating backmarkers.

I have to disagree here. As far as I'm concerned, I felt Hulkenberg saw his opportunity with the backmarker, who would've blocked Lewis for the next corner (Lewis wouldn't have had the inside line because the Caterham was there).

If that was his intention, then he should've aimed only to get his front wing in front of Hamilton, and used the Caterham to block Hamilton. I think he went to overtake Hamilton there and then.

Well yes of course but the point I was trying to make was that Hamilton would have had a hard time to come back at Hulkenberg if he would've just not spun (because the Caterham was positioned on Hamiltons "side" if you will). Hulkenberg effed up in that situation, but it wasn't worth of a DT, it was a racing incident so at most worth a reprimand. He just spun while downshifting, as McNish said post race.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:20

Jocke1 wrote:Who is that they insist on showing over and over in Fernando's garage?
Wasn't he married to Rosario-what's-her-face?

Again today, at least five times. Who is she?

I got Erja Hakkinen flashbacks...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:28

Benetton wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Benetton wrote:I have to disagree here. As far as I'm concerned, I felt Hulkenberg saw his opportunity with the backmarker, who would've blocked Lewis for the next corner (Lewis wouldn't have had the inside line because the Caterham was there).

If that was his intention, then he should've aimed only to get his front wing in front of Hamilton, and used the Caterham to block Hamilton. I think he went to overtake Hamilton there and then.

Well yes of course but the point I was trying to make was that Hamilton would have had a hard time to come back at Hulkenberg if he would've just not spun (because the Caterham was positioned on Hamiltons "side" if you will). Hulkenberg effed up in that situation, but it wasn't worth of a DT, it was a racing incident so at most worth a reprimand. He just spun while downshifting, as McNish said post race.

Fair enough. I think part of the reason Hulkenberg got a drive through was because he kept going after the fact; I've heard some comparision of this incident with Perez-Maldonado at Silverstone, but both drivers were out of the race in that one. To be honest, I don't recall an incident where one driver was at fault for a collision, but kept going while the other did not.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:39

Just been flicking through a recording of the Sky commentary (I watched the BBC one live). Like David Croft's line about Hamilton and Hulkenberg's collision having thrown "a load of cats into a whole tree full of pigeons" championship-wise. I'm sure it was probably a prepared line, but still!

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:42

I'm not THAT bothered about the outcome of the championship but after a race as legendary as that it's gutting to have to wait 4 months before the next race.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 20:47

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Fair enough. I think part of the reason Hulkenberg got a drive through was because he kept going after the fact; I've heard some comparision of this incident with Perez-Maldonado at Silverstone, but both drivers were out of the race in that one. To be honest, I don't recall an incident where one driver was at fault for a collision, but kept going while the other did not.

Point made. However, Hulkenberg being able to continue was pure luck, I thought he would've suffered too much damage to the rear suspension then and there.

What irritated me with the Stewards decision was that with the same logic they used on Hulkenberg then Vettel should've also got a drive through for turning into Senna. It was obviously not on purpose, but Sebastian still made an driver error there (and managed to keep going). Ultimately, because of the safety car later on, I still believe Vettel would've been in the points, and if he would've have been 9th or 10th then Vergne and Webber would've have slowed down considerably.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Nov 2012, 21:01

Benetton wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Fair enough. I think part of the reason Hulkenberg got a drive through was because he kept going after the fact; I've heard some comparision of this incident with Perez-Maldonado at Silverstone, but both drivers were out of the race in that one. To be honest, I don't recall an incident where one driver was at fault for a collision, but kept going while the other did not.

Point made. However, Hulkenberg being able to continue was pure luck, I thought he would've suffered too much damage to the rear suspension then and there.

What irritated me with the Stewards decision was that with the same logic they used on Hulkenberg then Vettel should've also got a drive through for turning into Senna. It was obviously not on purpose, but Sebastian still made an driver error there (and managed to keep going). Ultimately, because of the safety car later on, I still believe Vettel would've been in the points, and if he would've have been 9th or 10th then Vergne and Webber would've have slowed down considerably.

I see your point there, but had Hulkenberg not been forced to take the drive through, he would've finished 2nd I think. Which meant he really lost nothing out of the whole deal, while Hamilton had lost a certain podium. Whereas Vettel put himself right in the back and put his championship in jeapordy.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 25 Nov 2012, 21:09

Jocke1 wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:Who is that they insist on showing over and over in Fernando's garage?
Wasn't he married to Rosario-what's-her-face?

Again today, at least five times. Who is she?

I got Erja Hakkinen flashbacks...

Her name is apparently Dasha Kapustina.
'Ole Nando must have ditched Rosario-something, then. Fernando, you dawg.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 25 Nov 2012, 21:34

Rosario and Fernando broke up some time ago IIRC.

EDIT) I just noticed Heikki Kovalainen scored the 10th fastest lap of the Grand Prix. That is quite impressive.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:13

I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect. He was last at one point, partly of his own making but the point is he fought back. This "he can only win from the front and can't overtake" argument just doesn't wash anymore.

Alonso fought well and I felt for him at the end. It seems to me that a lot of the bad feeling towards drivers centres around their personalities, well, Alonso is no angel himself. Very few multiple world champions are.

I really hoped we'd get another new winner this year with Hulkenberg, sadly it wasn't to be. Can't wait to see him in a Sauber though. And good to see one more fiery drive from Schumacher before he bows out.

Post by **Ataxia** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:20

LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

For some people on this forum, he'd have to solve poverty in the developing world...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:25

Oh I respect Vettel as a driver but I just really dislike him as a person!

Post by **Nuppiz** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:29

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:
LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

For some people on this forum, he'd have to dissolve into the ground...

Fixed.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:31

James1978 wrote:Oh I respect Vettel as a driver but I just really dislike him as a person!

Ditto for me, and I dislike Alonso too but they're both great drivers. Have to say I dislike Vettel slightly less, but I want to see him spread his wings away from Red Bull.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:48

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Fair enough. I think part of the reason Hulkenberg got a drive through was because he kept going after the fact; I've heard some comparision of this incident with Perez-Maldonado at Silverstone, but both drivers were out of the race in that one. To be honest, I don't recall an incident where one driver was at fault for a collision, but kept going while the other did not.

A relatively recent example is the Hamilton and Maldonado crash in Monaco 2011 (for which Hamilton received a 20 second penalty which didn't even affect his position). Also a rare case of Maldonado being the victim of a crash rather than causing it himself. :lol:

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:54

Great-great-great race to finish the championship.

It was just how I wanted it to be:

- exciting race, but Vettel takes the title
- giving a present Button-win to my girlfriend (first race we watched together)
- rain without red flag :!:

Ok, some minor issues weren't all right.

- Kobayashi and Hülkenberg didn't capitalize completely
- Marussia lost the 10th place - 'Pic helped to his future team'-conspirancy? Although it seemed it was letting go Alonso which was the crucial moment there

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 25 Nov 2012, 22:58

Can't say I'm all that disappointed that Vettel won, but I'd rather see Alonso win because I know a few Vettel fanboys that I don't really like and I really wanted an opportunity to troll them.

Saying that you're actually happy for Vettel though might count as trolling around here, though...

I think it also really sucks that Vitaly Petrov's awesome drive won't save his career, but will in actuality save his teammate's... talk about injustice at its finest, but it is Caterham, the least likable of the three crap teams, so I can't say I expected anything different.

Post by **Londoner** » 25 Nov 2012, 23:00

James1978 wrote:Oh I respect Vettel as a driver but I just really dislike him as a person!

Pretty much this.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 25 Nov 2012, 23:07

Pic didn't help Caterham. His Marussia has no KERS while Vitaly used all of his to do the overtake. There was no way he could have held it.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 25 Nov 2012, 23:22

The race was on at 11.45 pm in Singapore.

I dozed off to sleep at some time around 11.30.

RAGE.

Ah well,looks like I will have to depend on Youtube to provide actual coverage in the race.

Now.....let F1 deprivation begin!

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 26 Nov 2012, 00:18

A GAME:
Watch every Post-race interview of Vettel from the 2012 season.
Have a drink every time he says "Obviously".

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 26 Nov 2012, 00:31

nome66 wrote:A GAME:
Watch every Post-race interview of Vettel from the 2012 season.
Have a drink every time he says "Obviously".

Does that mean Vettel is Captain Obvious?

Post by **Londoner** » 26 Nov 2012, 01:09

Lewis Hamilton wrote:The dude didn’t even come and say sorry and that says a lot. That’s what happens when you race with a less experienced driver.

Another foot in mouth comment from Mercedes' new signing. Nico did indeed apologise later on. :roll:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/25/lewis-hamilton-mclaren-nico-hulkenburg

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 26 Nov 2012, 02:46

DOSBoot wrote:
nome66 wrote:A GAME:
Watch every Post-race interview of Vettel from the 2012 season.
Have a drink every time he says "Obviously".

Does that mean Vettel is Captain Obvious?

nope i'm just slightly sad about the championship and want to get drunk

razta · Post by **razta** » 26 Nov 2012, 03:28

AdrianSutil wrote:Just to make myself clear, as I feel a few posts have been aimed at me and others, I never said anything about Vettel. My gripe is RedBull as a team and Christian Horner as a person, not Vettel. He's a fantastic driver.

I'm with you there mate..

razta · Post by **razta** » 26 Nov 2012, 04:28

Alonso's Face at the end was just...... Priceless
was discussing with my cousin, we feel that this defeat will have caused a serious dent in Nando's pride, and with Massa on such a recent high, he'll be carrying the momentum forward for Ferrari in 2013.. not Satan-Der Boy

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Nov 2012, 07:04

razta wrote:Alonso's Face at the end was just...... Priceless
was discussing with my cousin, we feel that this defeat will have caused a serious dent in Nando's pride, and with Massa on such a recent high, he'll be carrying the momentum forward for Ferrari in 2013.. not Satan-Der Boy

I think you underestimate Alonso. He's as tough as it gets, and he'll be back as good as ever next year.

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 26 Nov 2012, 07:25

What a way to end the season. Crashes, rain, passes, first corner accidents, leaders DNF etc.

Pretty much sums up the season, so on that note:

BRING ON NEXT YEAR!!!

Post by **Nuppiz** » 26 Nov 2012, 07:33

James1978 wrote:Oh I respect Vettel as a driver but I just really dislike him as a person!

And I don't like Alonso as a person at all. Do I constantly slag him off every time he gets a good result?

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 26 Nov 2012, 07:48

Nuppiz wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:
LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

For some people on this forum, he'd have to drive for HRT...

Fixed.

Double Fixed.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Nov 2012, 07:55

You'd have to say that Alonso didnt lose the championship GROSJEAN TOOK IT FROM HIM!!!

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 26 Nov 2012, 08:32

LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

1. Win a championship for anyone who isn't Red Bull.
2. Do so without waving his friggen finger about.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Nov 2012, 10:54

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

1. Win a championship for anyone who isn't Red Bull.
2. Do so without waving his friggen finger about.

So much number 1. So very much.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 26 Nov 2012, 11:59

AdrianSutil wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:
LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

1. Win a championship for anyone who isn't Red Bull.
2. Do so without waving his friggen finger about.

So much number 1. So very much.

But ...

Senna never won a championship for anyone who wasn't McLaren
Alonso has never won a championship for anyone who wasn't Renault

The list could of course go on for ages.

I don't like Alonso, I don't like Vettel, but I respect them both. After Vettel's Abu Dhabi and Brazilian adversity-packed races, and Ferrari's Austin Massa-sacrifice, Vettel deserved to win from his performances
down the home stretch - bear in mind he didn't win any of those races, but picked up good results - just what people have been praising Alonso for all year.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 26 Nov 2012, 12:14

And another thing - I don't really get the amount of hatred being directed at Di Resta. Sure he's not my favourite but I don't know what he's done that's worthy of all this!

And Red Bull seemed to me a very popular team in their early days (05 - 08) before they started winning.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 26 Nov 2012, 12:27

madmark1974 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:1. Win a championship for anyone who isn't Red Bull.
2. Do so without waving his friggen finger about.

So much number 1. So very much.

But ...

Senna never won a championship for anyone who wasn't McLaren
Alonso has never won a championship for anyone who wasn't Renault

The list could of course go on for ages.

Which is why I like Prost better than Senna, and Schumacher and Raikkonen better than Alonso.