Grand Prix Rejects

Klon wrote:I know I will be the only one to think so, but I believe they should man up and go search for sponsorship.

Nope. Not the only one. Man up and quit whining that people who aren't from West Europe just took your seats. Get money, bring it back. Got it? Good.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Horner thinks Mark can do it next year

Christian Horner believes Mark Webber can come back and fight for the world championship in 2011

He said, "fight for," not "win it." Aren't they supposed to be building the team round Vettel as a no. 1 from 2011?

Ricciardo gets Friday practice for STR
Brilliant, maybe that will force Toro Rosso to get more exciting. If that's even possible...

Team boss Franz Tost welcomed Ricciardo's promotion and joked that it would keep Buemi and Alguersuari on their toes.

So, who's leaving by mid-season next year? My guess is that it'll be Buemi, but let's see...

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 5622&FS=F1

Aleshin confident of racing in 2011, claims he has an agreement in pace, but cannot disclose the team. Petrov is expected to be re-signed by Renault shortly.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 5638&FS=F1

Chandhok is less specific, claiming he is in talks with teams and hopes something can be sorted before Christmas.

So, here's what I think:

Red Bull Racing / Renault
#1 - Sebastian VETTEL
#2 - Mark WEBBER

Vodafone McLaren Automotive / Mercedes
#3 - Lewis HAMILTON
#4 - Jenson BUTTON

Scuderia Ferrari Santander
#5 - Fernando ALONSO
#6 - Felipe MASSA

Mercedes GP Petronas
#7 - Michael SCHUAMCHER
#8 - Nico ROSBERG

Gravity Lotus Racing / Renault
#9 - Robert KUBICA
#10 - Vitaly PETROV

PDVSA WilliamsF1 / Cosworth
#11 - Pastor MALDONADO
#12 - Rubens BARRICHELLO

Gazprom Force India F1 / Mercedes
#14 - Mikhail ALESHIN
#15 - Nico HULKENBERG

Sauber Team Telmex / Ferrari
#16 - Kamui KOBAYASHI
#17 - Sergio PEREZ

Scuderia Toro Rosso / Ferrari
#18 - Jaime ALGUERSUARI
#19 - Sebastien BUEMI

Team Fernandes Lotus / Renault
#20 - Heikki KOVALIANEN
#21 - Jarno TRULLI

Hispania Racing F1 Team / Cosworth
#22 - Davide VALSECCHI
#23 - Pedro DE LA ROSA

Marussia Virgin Racing / Cosworth
#24 - Timo GLOCK
#25 - Jerome D'AMBROSIO

Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

Judging from Virgin's and HRT's failure to call their removal from F1, do you think they'll come back for 2011?

JeremyMcClean wrote:Judging from Virgin's and HRT's failure to call their removal from F1, do you think they'll come back for 2011?

Eh? As ever we're not sure about HRT anything might happen to them, but we know definately that Virgin are here to stay, Branson is committed for the long term, Timo's under contract for next year, Marussia are increasing their involvement with the team and they're moving into a new 70,000sq ft new factory to build the cars in by the start of the new season. I think they'll be on the grid next year

Willi Weber confirms the not so incredible Hulk is in talks with the Force for a seat next season.

Liuzzi, Di Resta, Sutil and Hulkenberg all vying for the 2 race seats... I can already tell you who isn't going to win

Peter wrote:Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

Captain Hammer wrote:

Peter wrote:Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

So Sutil has 1 bad race. Big deal. Sutil is a great driver, if anyone is leaving Force India, it's Liuzzi. Unless Sutil can find himself a better place elsewhere.

Peter wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Peter wrote:Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

So Sutil has 1 bad race. Big deal. Sutil is a great driver, if anyone is leaving Force India, it's Liuzzi. Unless Sutil can find himself a better place elsewhere.

The fact is, 1 bad race ruins your reputation, and in some circumstances, it does so fatally. Sutil really left the timing too late, and after Korea, he couldn't go on saying, "I'm an awesome driver, so sign me now!". In fact, his form just got worse after that, at least in qualifying. Remember Brazil? I agree Liuzzi should leave, but Adrian has pretty much put himself in the cold.

Captain Hammer wrote:You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

He was SUPERB in malaysia, holding off hamilton throughout the race-surely the good outweighs the bad?

jpm wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

He was SUPERB in malaysia, holding off hamilton throughout the race-surely the good outweighs the bad?

But Malaysia is too far away, most humans only look for most recent results.

Klon wrote:

jpm wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

He was SUPERB in malaysia, holding off hamilton throughout the race-surely the good outweighs the bad?

But Malaysia is too far away, most humans only look for most recent results.

Except Schumacher

Captain Hammer wrote:

Peter wrote:Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

An amusing double standard you have there Cap'n.
Vitaly spent the whole season wrecking his car but after Abu Dhabi he's a hero.
Sutil did well for most of the season except for one race, and he's in the cold.

LOL if you think Sutil won't have a seat next season. I'd say he clearly punched above his cars weight for most of the season, and thus is in many's top 5 from 2010. At Korea he had brake problems, in the rain nonetheless, he just tried too hard. In Brazil on race day he did well.

Okay, so Hulk is talking with FI. Well, I'm looking forward to a Sutil-Hulkenberg pairing next season.

Sutil cracks like an egg under pressure, and he better hope that the money he has from Medion is enough to get him a seat somewhere else...

Weber ruled out compiling enough sponsorship for Hulkenberg to buy a cockpit elsewhere. "If you bring money to a F1 team, then that's what you do for the rest of your life."

Two words disprove that argument, and they are Fernando, and Alonso.

Cynon wrote:Sutil cracks like an egg under pressure, and he better hope that the money he has from Medion is enough to get him a seat somewhere else...

Weber ruled out compiling enough sponsorship for Hulkenberg to buy a cockpit elsewhere. "If you bring money to a F1 team, then that's what you do for the rest of your life."

Two words disprove that argument, and they are Fernando, and Alonso.

I've got another two to disprove Weber's arguement: Michael, and Schumacher

Cynon wrote:Sutil cracks like an egg under pressure, and he better hope that the money he has from Medion is enough to get him a seat somewhere else...

Weber ruled out compiling enough sponsorship for Hulkenberg to buy a cockpit elsewhere. "If you bring money to a F1 team, then that's what you do for the rest of your life."

Two words disprove that argument, and they are Fernando, and Alonso.

One word: Santander.

Red Bull - Renault
Drivers: Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber

Vodafone McLaren - Mercedes
Drivers: Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button

Scuderia Ferrari Santander
Drivers: Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa

Mercedes GP
Drivers: Nico Rosberg, Michael Schumacher

Lotus Renault
Drivers: Robert Kubica, Nico Hulkenberg

Williams - Cosworth
Drivers: Rubens Barrichello, Pastor Maldonado

Force India - Mercedes
Drivers: Adrian Sutil, Paul di Resta

Sauber - Ferrari
Drivers: Kamui Kobayashi, Sergio Perez

Torro Rosso - Ferrari
Drivers: Sebastien Buemi, Jaime Alguersuari

Team Air Asia - Renault[/u]
Drivers: Heikki Kovaleinen, Jarno Trulli

Hispania Racing - Cosworth
Drivers: Christian Klien, Bruno Senna

Marussia Virgin Racing - Cosworth
Drivers: Timo Glock, Jerome d'Ambrosio

jpm wrote:Lotus Renault
Drivers: Robert Kubica, Nico Hulkenberg

I don't think the team would replace Petrov with Hulkenberg - they have shown similar promise, but Petrov has sponsors. Then again, that is probably countered by the amount of times he throws it into the scenery.

IMO Sutil is WAY overrated anyway. It seems to be a trend amongst the young and not so young german drivers. (Sutil, Glock, Heidfeld, Hulk, even Nico to a degree)

DonTirri wrote:IMO Sutil is WAY overrated anyway. It seems to be a trend amongst the young and not so young german drivers. (Sutil, Glock, Heidfeld, Hulk, even Nico to a degree)

For once I'm shockingly going to have to agree with you Tirri, I don't know why people see Sutil as this good driver, he's spent five years at the same team and effectively done bugger all except been punted out of 4th a few times by Raikkonen! I can see Glock being much the same, a guy who clearly has talent, but not enough to win races on a regular basis. Maybe one or two if he's lucky.

I still don't understand the love for Hulkenberg. I mean, what's more impressive: one pole position, or fending off Fernando Alonso (and an Alonso going for a third World Championship at that) for 39 laps?

Captain Hammer wrote:I still don't understand the love for Hulkenberg. I mean, what's more impressive: one pole position, or fending off Fernando Alonso (and an Alonso going for a third World Championship at that) for 39 laps?

Because that doesn't sum up a season and he was helped by a track where it is dificult to overtake (not to mention Renault's F duct)

But to be fair he deserves another year.

And yes, it is time for Sutil to move up.

AndreaModa wrote:

DonTirri wrote:IMO Sutil is WAY overrated anyway. It seems to be a trend amongst the young and not so young german drivers. (Sutil, Glock, Heidfeld, Hulk, even Nico to a degree)

For once I'm shockingly going to have to agree with you Tirri, I don't know why people see Sutil as this good driver, he's spent five years at the same team and effectively done bugger all except been punted out of 4th a few times by Raikkonen! I can see Glock being much the same, a guy who clearly has talent, but not enough to win races on a regular basis. Maybe one or two if he's lucky.

So you're saying he's going to be Heinz-Harald Frentzen?

Captain Hammer wrote:I still don't understand the love for Hulkenberg.

He won a pole for Williams.

Despite that, he was thrashed by Barrichello all season long. Petrov and Hulkenberg both failed a lot early on in the season, but Petrov's failures were as a result of being another Takuma Sato/Verstappen/awesome driver whereas Hulkenberg's fails were partially due to a lack of speed.

I mean, Petrov made more of his bad situations than the Hulk -- Petrov got taken out of 9th and scored fastest lap of the race, whereas the Hulk threw away a possible podium in Brazil... so...

LionZoo wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:

DonTirri wrote:IMO Sutil is WAY overrated anyway. It seems to be a trend amongst the young and not so young german drivers. (Sutil, Glock, Heidfeld, Hulk, even Nico to a degree)

For once I'm shockingly going to have to agree with you Tirri, I don't know why people see Sutil as this good driver, he's spent five years at the same team and effectively done bugger all except been punted out of 4th a few times by Raikkonen! I can see Glock being much the same, a guy who clearly has talent, but not enough to win races on a regular basis. Maybe one or two if he's lucky.

So you're saying he's going to be Heinz-Harald Frentzen?

That at best, and I'm not even expecting Sutil to get any wins because in reality none of the top teams want him else he would have got a drive years ago. Like I said he's been in F1 for five years with the same team and nothing has come of it except some dubious links to the second Renault seat this year. Frentzen had potential and could have seriously challenged in 1999 had the Jordan been slightly better. Sutil will never get his arse in anything like as good a car as that in my opinion.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

jpm wrote:Lotus Renault
Drivers: Robert Kubica, Nico Hulkenberg

I don't think the team would replace Petrov with Hulkenberg - they have shown similar promise, but Petrov has sponsors. Then again, that is probably countered by the amount of times he throws it into the scenery.

On the positive side, it means the sponsors get quite a bit of TV time...

For those willing to speculate about 2011 (and there are many), this might help fill in some of the gaps: the latest FIA press release on the 2011 line up, as submitted to the FIA by the teams.
Admittedly, there are a few seats which should have been filled, but have, for some reason, been listed as TBA - notably, Toro Rosso, where the management have said that Buemi and Alguersuari have a contract for 2011, but they are not listed.
There are also a couple of name changes - the BMW name has been dropped from Sauber, so they are now listed in the Constructors Championship as Sauber Ferrari, Lotus Racing have changed to Team Lotus, and Virgin Racing are now Marussia Virgin Racing after Lloyd's venture capital firm sold their state to the automotive manufacturer. Notably, though, Renault have remained the Renault F1 team, despite speculation linking Group Lotus to the team as a potential title sponsor.

So, as of 30/11/2010, this is how the entry list stands.

Red Bull Racing
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Mark Webber

Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes
3. Lewis Hamilton
4. Jenson Button

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa

Mercedes GP Petronas
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Nico Rosberg

Renault F1
9. Robert Kubica
10. TBA

AT&T Williams
11. Rubens Barrichello
12. TBA

Force India F1
14. TBA
15. TBA

Sauber Ferrari
16. Kamui Kobayashi
17. Sergio Perez Mendoza

Scuderia Toro Rosso
18. TBA (but presumably Buemi)
19. TBA (but presumably Alguersuari)

Team Lotus
20. Jarno Trulli
21. Heikki Kovalainen

HRT F1
22. TBA (no surprises here)
23. TBA

Marussia Virgin Racing
24. TBA (but presumably Glock)
25. TBA

Sourced from here http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/11/30/many ... ntry-list/

Note that this list only covers the named - in other words, primary - drivers for each team; the test drivers, by and large, are unconfirmed, although there are some teams (like Williams and Sauber) which have made separate announcements in that regard.

Interestingly, there is another anomaly that catches my eye - according to tradition, Schumacher should have No. 8 on his car, although it seems that Mercedes have decided to switch their driver numbers around so Schumacher gets No. 7 instead. Strictly speaking, they do not have to - only the number of the WDC and his team mate have to be in finishing order (with the exception of Damon Hill, where he was given No. 0 when moving into a team where the previous WDC retired before the next season, in effect also retiring the No. 1 marker for that year). Still, it is interesting to see that evidently Schumacher gets numerical precedence, even if Rosberg was the better palced driver in the standings at the end of the year.

What also surprises me is that Force India appear to have not entered a driver so far, when most observers thought that Sutil was a shoe-in at Force India. Although I would not have expected it, is it possible that rumours that Sutil was not as secure in his seat as first though might have had some basis in reality?

Frentzen127 wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

Peter wrote:Where's Sutil? Why would Sutil ever not be in a seat??

You were watching in Korea, right?

If i had to place him, he'd probably be a test driver as Mercedes looking to re-enter when Schumacher retires.

An amusing double standard you have there Cap'n.
Vitaly spent the whole season wrecking his car but after Abu Dhabi he's a hero.
Sutil did well for most of the season except for one race, and he's in the cold.

Technically this is not a double-standard. It would only be so if each competitor did the same thing but he treated them differently. These two were very different, so the most you could say is that it is a "Bass Ackward" standard.

Captain Hammer wrote:I still don't understand the love for Hulkenberg. I mean, what's more impressive: one pole position, or fending off Fernando Alonso (and an Alonso going for a third World Championship at that) for 39 laps?

GP2 2009-Hulkenberg smashes everyone including Petrov in his maiden season.
No. of accidents; with the Hulk the only one that springs to mind was Monaco, whereas Petrov crashed at Korea, Japan, Australia
Best qualifying; the Hulk at Brazil
Best race; Petrov at Turkey (before his puncture from Alonso)-on fresh tyres he set fastest lap.

Im not denying that Petrov had serious talent-and SERIOUS capacity for learning, bearing in mind his ascent from Lada racing, but on balace I feel Nico edges it.

Whether Renault take this into account, or the marketing capacity of Petrov's nationality I have no idea.

Something that was bound to happen anyway, but is finally confirmed:

Lotus confirms Trulli and Heikki for 2011

They are down as Team Lotus on the entry sheet for 2011 too which is interesting.

Entry List

AndreaModa wrote:Something that was bound to happen anyway, but is finally confirmed:

Lotus confirms Trulli and Heikki for 2011

They are down as Team Lotus on the entry sheet for 2011 too which is interesting.

Entry List

As much as I love to see the Team Lotus banner, this is a mess. Lotus-Renault and Lotus Renault? You gotta be kidding me.

Jenson Button is also in car 3, with Lewis Hamilton in car 4.

Phoenix wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Something that was bound to happen anyway, but is finally confirmed:

Lotus confirms Trulli and Heikki for 2011

They are down as Team Lotus on the entry sheet for 2011 too which is interesting.

Entry List

As much as I love to see the Team Lotus banner, this is a mess. Lotus-Renault and Lotus Renault? You gotta be kidding me.

Even if Lotus Cars sponsor Renault though they'll still be called Renualt by everyone, just as Marussia Virgin will still be called Virgin. We don't all go Vodafone McLaren, or AT&T Williams because sponsors come and go, the team names will stick around for much longer. When Lotus Cars realise that and after they've lost the court case, or more likely gone bust with this massive motorsport expansion they're undertaking, everything will be resumed as normal. Don't Panic!

AndreaModa wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Something that was bound to happen anyway, but is finally confirmed:

Lotus confirms Trulli and Heikki for 2011

They are down as Team Lotus on the entry sheet for 2011 too which is interesting.

Entry List

As much as I love to see the Team Lotus banner, this is a mess. Lotus-Renault and Lotus Renault? You gotta be kidding me.

Even if Lotus Cars sponsor Renault though they'll still be called Renualt by everyone, just as Marussia Virgin will still be called Virgin. We don't all go Vodafone McLaren, or AT&T Williams because sponsors come and go, the team names will stick around for much longer. When Lotus Cars realise that and after they've lost the court case, or more likely gone bust with this massive motorsport expansion they're undertaking, everything will be resumed as normal. Don't Panic!

It's amusing nonetheless.

mario wrote:Interestingly, there is another anomaly that catches my eye - according to tradition, Schumacher should have No. 8 on his car, although it seems that Mercedes have decided to switch their driver numbers around so Schumacher gets No. 7 instead. Strictly speaking, they do not have to - only the number of the WDC and his team mate have to be in finishing order (with the exception of Damon Hill, where he was given No. 0 when moving into a team where the previous WDC retired before the next season, in effect also retiring the No. 1 marker for that year). Still, it is interesting to see that evidently Schumacher gets numerical precedence, even if Rosberg was the better palced driver in the standings at the end of the year.

What also surprises me is that Force India appear to have not entered a driver so far, when most observers thought that Sutil was a shoe-in at Force India. Although I would not have expected it, is it possible that rumours that Sutil was not as secure in his seat as first though might have had some basis in reality?

But Schumi has 'traditionally' always used the odd number, right? With the exception of Jordan, where he used "32", at Benetton, he had "19", "5" and "1", and at Ferrari, it was "1" and "3" and "5", and back to "3" with Merce.