Grand Prix Rejects

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Good news everyone!

Graeme Lowdon tells Autosport that the MVR-03 is on schedule to appear at the first pre-season test!

This is great to hear, especially the bits that are apparently ahead of schedule. I think a full program of pre-season testing will really let them hit the ground running for the first race.

A very interesting part of that was Lowdon's statement that the 2012 car was yet again a completely CFD car when it began. I'm hopeful that good things can come from them next season...

Yeah I also thought that, I was under the impression it was just the 2011 car that was all CFD and that the MVR-02 had both CFD and wind tunnel applied to it, but now it seems not. Puts their development in even greater perspective I suppose!

If I'd be the team principal I would consider a line up of Kobayashi-Haryanto or Alguersuari-Haryanto.

I feel that Glock has nothing more to give this team and therefore a new lead driver would be necessary, which in my case would be either Kobayashi or Alguersuari.

Haryanto would get my second seat because of his considerable backing, which I find more secure, long term, than the backing Chilton has. Plus, I find that Haryanto has, in the end, more upside than Chilton.

Also, having a Kobayashi-Chilton line up would be good in that sense that there are no other Japanese or Indonesian drivers on the grid and that my team would atleast get exposure in those two countries which could attract further sponsors.

I could also consider Petrov but is he truly someone that can push the team forward? He will most likely be retained by Caterham anyway.

I like Marussia very much. For the team I think that Kobayashi will help them for make the upgrade that they need. But we have to consider two things: first of all Kobayashi is a driver like Glock, not so experienced like the german, but a very good driver now and you've to pay him even if he's going to bring some sponsors and the second thing is that in 2014 the regulation will change, this mean that you've to make a multi year contract to they (or make Kobayashi first driver in 2014) for have a long term upgrade. Kamui some weeks ago tell that in 2014 could go to one top team, maybe becasue Honda will return in F1 and they'll support him.

For 2013 I will take Chilton alongside Glock, he'll bring a lot of money (and his father a part of the team). I think that they could arrive 10°, but the main focus have to be 2014 for became a midfield team

Hrayanto is too inexperienced at the moment, give him another year in GP2 to prove himself first

eurobrun wrote:Hrayanto is too inexperienced at the moment, give him another year in GP2 to prove himself first

People always say that, x driver is tooinexperienced, keep him in GP2 for another year, then next year they're all like "Oh, he's spent too many seasons in GP2, he must be crap, hope this team doesn't sign him". I for one am angered by the fact that lots of talent at the moment is being wasted in the junior categories because no-one is willing to give them a chance and/or some driver or another in his 40s is making a 'comeback'.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

eurobrun wrote:Hrayanto is too inexperienced at the moment, give him another year in GP2 to prove himself first

People always say that, x driver is tooinexperienced, keep him in GP2 for another year, then next year they're all like "Oh, he's spent too many seasons in GP2, he must be crap, hope this team doesn't sign him". I for one am angered by the fact that lots of talent at the moment is being wasted in the junior categories because no-one is willing to give them a chance and/or some driver or another in his 40s is making a 'comeback'.

Yes, I find that hypocritical.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

eurobrun wrote:Hrayanto is too inexperienced at the moment, give him another year in GP2 to prove himself first

People always say that, x driver is tooinexperienced, keep him in GP2 for another year, then next year they're all like "Oh, he's spent too many seasons in GP2, he must be crap, hope this team doesn't sign him". I for one am angered by the fact that lots of talent at the moment is being wasted in the junior categories because no-one is willing to give them a chance and/or some driver or another in his 40s is making a 'comeback'.

Well, you have to carefully balance; it's a lot of risk taking on a rookie driver. If they turn out a dud, that can cost places in the WCC, which would be a blow to any team, but especially from 6th on down. Generally, I work off the basis that 2-3 years is enough to judge a driver at the GP2/FR3.5 level - after that I start to wonder. Doesn't mean I don't accept exceptions, though - Vitaly Petrov took 4 years to graduate from GP2, but that was acceptable as he had shown a marked improvement year on year. As opposed to, say, Davide Valsecchi, who spent 4 years being meh, then won the title after nearly everyone ahead of him in 2011 left.

As for Haryanto, I concur with eurobrun - he wasn't that spectacular in 2012, but that was only his first year. Given another year or two, he might impress.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:

eurobrun wrote:Hrayanto is too inexperienced at the moment, give him another year in GP2 to prove himself first

People always say that, x driver is tooinexperienced, keep him in GP2 for another year, then next year they're all like "Oh, he's spent too many seasons in GP2, he must be crap, hope this team doesn't sign him". I for one am angered by the fact that lots of talent at the moment is being wasted in the junior categories because no-one is willing to give them a chance and/or some driver or another in his 40s is making a 'comeback'.

Well, you have to carefully balance; it's a lot of risk taking on a rookie driver. If they turn out a dud, that can cost places in the WCC, which would be a blow to any team, but especially from 6th on down. Generally, I work off the basis that 2-3 years is enough to judge a driver at the GP2/FR3.5 level - after that I start to wonder. Doesn't mean I don't accept exceptions, though - Vitaly Petrov took 4 years to graduate from GP2, but that was acceptable as he had shown a marked improvement year on year. As opposed to, say, Davide Valsecchi, who spent 4 years being meh, then won the title after nearly everyone ahead of him in 2011 left.

I usually use the three season rule as well when talking about junior drivers. Hell, I even crafted the F2RWRS experience system using that very same rule. However, I do agree that Haryanto would be better off in GP2 for another year, simply because his main competition for the seat (i.e. Max Chilton) is probably a better bet in terms of performance for Marussia and he's not on anyone else's radar.

The car's not just on schedule any more, it's going to be right in the midfield according to Lowdon!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104819

He either knows something that we all don't, or more likely I suspect, it's a bit of talking up to help convince a few sponsors. Still, nothing like a bit of a positive outlook for a change! Beats the doom and gloom the team has endured in the run up to every season so far.

Since HRT is almost gone, may have to move my useful comments to Marussia!

TBH Marussia did very well, they were mostly battling with Lotus, and just missed out on the crucial 10th place.

Whether they can take on the midfield is another thing, but they should do muchg better, with more familiarity of McLaren technology. The only issue would be the engine I think.

Lowdon can talk big all he wants, we all know the reality is another year stuck at the back of the grid. I wouldn't expect anything else.

kostas22 wrote:Lowdon can talk big all he wants, we all know the reality is another year stuck at the back of the grid. I wouldn't expect anything else.

As much as I'd like to see it not be the case, it will be.

David AGS wrote:Since HRT is almost gone, may have to move my useful comments to Marussia!

TBH Marussia did very well, they were mostly battling with Lotus, and just missed out on the crucial 10th place.

Whether they can take on the midfield is another thing, but they should do muchg better, with more familiarity of McLaren technology. The only issue would be the engine I think.

That is true, especially when it comes to the races in the latter part of the year when the performance drop off of the engines becomes more noticeable (where Cosworth are still reportedly struggling to match the manufacturers). On the other hand, that might be partially offset by the introduction of KERS and the expansion of their design capabilities - I wouldn't expect them to be up in the midfield simply because their resources are still too limited, but they might at least be in a position to pressurise Caterham right from the start of the season.

mario wrote:

David AGS wrote:Since HRT is almost gone, may have to move my useful comments to Marussia!

TBH Marussia did very well, they were mostly battling with Lotus, and just missed out on the crucial 10th place.

Whether they can take on the midfield is another thing, but they should do muchg better, with more familiarity of McLaren technology. The only issue would be the engine I think.

That is true, especially when it comes to the races in the latter part of the year when the performance drop off of the engines becomes more noticeable (where Cosworth are still reportedly struggling to match the manufacturers). On the other hand, that might be partially offset by the introduction of KERS and the expansion of their design capabilities - I wouldn't expect them to be up in the midfield simply because their resources are still too limited, but they might at least be in a position to pressurise Caterham right from the start of the season.

Exactly, I think this has to be the aim for the team for 2013, because it took them an awful long time to get up to speed this season and Caterham were clearly ahead of Marussia for the first half of the year. If they can hit the ground running and be a match for Caterham from the off, then that will be a clear improvement on the previous season and carry forward the momentum they had at the end of 2012.

Good news everyone!

Well, as good as it can get for the time being.

Marussia have announced they've secured a bigger deal with partner/supplier CarPlan, following the initial deal from last season. I don't think it will mean more logos as CarPlan are already there albeit pretty small, but it's positive news nonetheless!

http://www.marussiaf1team.com/news/752/

This is turning into my own Marussia blog isn't it?

Some of you may have noticed that Max Chilton has done all 4 days at the first Barcelona test. I only realised this today, and thought I'd tweet the Marussia twitter page to see why. I found it odd that they didn't respond at all, but upon further investigation I think I now know why.

It seems that there are rumours flying around that Razia is having a bit of trouble stumping up the cash he promised as part of his deal. The official line from the team has been that having Chilton in the car for the whole test has been better for consistency, but we all know that's not true otherwise all the teams would do that. So it now looks like Razia's seat is under threat unless he can get the money to the team in time for the start of the season.

As I said, it's only a rumour at the moment, hence why the main F1 news outlets haven't run the story, but here it is on F1Fanatic: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/02/22/chilton-happy-test-razia-sits-barcelona/

The question is, if Razia can't find the money and thus looses his seat, who will replace him?

AndreaModa wrote:This is turning into my own Marussia blog isn't it?

Some of you may have noticed that Max Chilton has done all 4 days at the first Barcelona test. I only realised this today, and thought I'd tweet the Marussia twitter page to see why. I found it odd that they didn't respond at all, but upon further investigation I think I now know why.

It seems that there are rumours flying around that Razia is having a bit of trouble stumping up the cash he promised as part of his deal. The official line from the team has been that having Chilton in the car for the whole test has been better for consistency, but we all know that's not true otherwise all the teams would do that. So it now looks like Razia's seat is under threat unless he can get the money to the team in time for the start of the season.

As I said, it's only a rumour at the moment, hence why the main F1 news outlets haven't run the story, but here it is on F1Fanatic: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/02/22/chilton-happy-test-razia-sits-barcelona/

The question is, if Razia can't find the money and thus looses his seat, who will replace him?

Good question...I think Razia should be alright, but if not then there's a certain Japanese semi-deity with a few million in his pocket.

Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:This is turning into my own Marussia blog isn't it?

Some of you may have noticed that Max Chilton has done all 4 days at the first Barcelona test. I only realised this today, and thought I'd tweet the Marussia twitter page to see why. I found it odd that they didn't respond at all, but upon further investigation I think I now know why.

It seems that there are rumours flying around that Razia is having a bit of trouble stumping up the cash he promised as part of his deal. The official line from the team has been that having Chilton in the car for the whole test has been better for consistency, but we all know that's not true otherwise all the teams would do that. So it now looks like Razia's seat is under threat unless he can get the money to the team in time for the start of the season.

As I said, it's only a rumour at the moment, hence why the main F1 news outlets haven't run the story, but here it is on F1Fanatic: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/02/22/chilton-happy-test-razia-sits-barcelona/

The question is, if Razia can't find the money and thus looses his seat, who will replace him?

Good question...I think Razia should be alright, but if not then there's a certain Japanese semi-deity with a few million in his pocket.

Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

Taki Inoue FTW

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

A Russian driver in a Russian team - Putin would probably support Petrov indirectly by forcing his sponsors to pay the bills. This would also be a good season to promote F1 more in Russia in 2013 before the Russian GP next season.

Shizuka wrote:

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

A Russian driver in a Russian team - Putin would probably support Petrov indirectly by forcing his sponsors to pay the bills. This would also be a good season to promote F1 more in Russia in 2013 before the Russian GP next season.

It all makes sense, until you take into account Petrov is backed by Lada, which although not a direct competitor, is a rival Russian car manufacturer to Marussia. If they can get round that perhaps something could be worked out. Petrov was known to have a good pile of cash.

AndreaModa wrote:

Shizuka wrote:

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

A Russian driver in a Russian team - Putin would probably support Petrov indirectly by forcing his sponsors to pay the bills. This would also be a good season to promote F1 more in Russia in 2013 before the Russian GP next season.

It all makes sense, until you take into account Petrov is backed by Lada, which although not a direct competitor, is a rival Russian car manufacturer to Marussia. If they can get round that perhaps something could be worked out. Petrov was known to have a good pile of cash.

Of course, we have to wait and see what happens with Razia - it would be a very awkward time of year to replace a driver since Marussia are supposed to notify the FIA about their driver line up by the end of the month (i.e. two weeks before the start of the race weekend of the first race).

I would not be entirely surprised if Bernie would also be quite keen for some sort of deal between the two if the deal with Razia is falling apart - he'd probably hope that a deal that keeps Petrov in the sport might help bolster the flagging viewing figures in Russia.

mario wrote:I would not be entirely surprised if Bernie would also be quite keen for some sort of deal between the two if the deal with Razia is falling apart - he'd probably hope that a deal that keeps Petrov in the sport might help bolster the flagging viewing figures in Russia.

The numbers started to dwindle last year because Petrov was in no position to fight for much anything and Marussia is Russian in name only. Petrov in Marussia would not do much to increase viewership.

On a sidenote, massive bodywork update on the Marussia, looking more like a F1 and less Indy, nicely tight in the back.

Rusujuur wrote:On a sidenote, massive bodywork update on the Marussia, looking more like a F1 and less Indy, nicely tight in the back.

I also noticed they're using a fin now, like other teams.

AndreaModa wrote:

Shizuka wrote:

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:Petrov could be an option too if he can muster some cash...

A Russian driver in a Russian team - Putin would probably support Petrov indirectly by forcing his sponsors to pay the bills. This would also be a good season to promote F1 more in Russia in 2013 before the Russian GP next season.

It all makes sense, until you take into account Petrov is backed by Lada, which although not a direct competitor, is a rival Russian car manufacturer to Marussia. If they can get round that perhaps something could be worked out. Petrov was known to have a good pile of cash.

de Cesaris was a Marlboro driver yet he drove for Ligier and Tyrrell, which was backed by Gitanes and Cabin (Japan Tobacco).

Rusujuur wrote:

mario wrote:I would not be entirely surprised if Bernie would also be quite keen for some sort of deal between the two if the deal with Razia is falling apart - he'd probably hope that a deal that keeps Petrov in the sport might help bolster the flagging viewing figures in Russia.

The numbers started to dwindle last year because Petrov was in no position to fight for much anything and Marussia is Russian in name only. Petrov in Marussia would not do much to increase viewership.

On a sidenote, massive bodywork update on the Marussia, looking more like a F1 and less Indy, nicely tight in the back.

That is true, no doubt, but it is possible that Petrov's departure from the sport will only accelerate that decline in the viewing figures even further (I imagine that he would be a stronger draw to prospective Russian viewers than Marussia by themselves, given that their Russian credentials are, literally, in name only).

pi314159 wrote:

Rusujuur wrote:On a sidenote, massive bodywork update on the Marussia, looking more like a F1 and less Indy, nicely tight in the back.

I also noticed they're using a fin now, like other teams.

They are indeed, with the engine cover much more tightly wrapped around the internals than the previous design was. It looks like they're backing their work up with flow viz testing on the rear beam wing, presumably to see what effects the modification in the engine cover design has had on airflow over the beam wing:


There are also a few whispers here and there that there might be a few more upgrades in the works for the MR-02 for the final test (i.e. when the Melbourne spec package should be tested). If that is indeed the case, then they might well have caught Caterham well and truly napping (since Caterham are supposedly banking on a big upgrade package for the Spanish GP and won't update the car until then),

mario wrote:That is true, no doubt, but it is possible that Petrov's departure from the sport will only accelerate that decline in the viewing figures even further (I imagine that he would be a stronger draw to prospective Russian viewers than Marussia by themselves, given that their Russian credentials are, literally, in name only).

Indeed, even their own Twitter page describes them as an "Anglo-Russian F1 Team". It makes me wonder whether the whole 'Russian team' idea might be slipping away.

mario wrote:There are also a few whispers here and there that there might be a few more upgrades in the works for the MR-02 for the final test (i.e. when the Melbourne spec package should be tested). If that is indeed the case, then they might well have caught Caterham well and truly napping (since Caterham are supposedly banking on a big upgrade package for the Spanish GP and won't update the car until then),

That would be superb if it's correct. Having Pat Symonds involved looks like its really paying off.

marussia for me this year

Makes me wonder how does Marussia even prove being a Russian team. We're all confused here, as there's nothing really Russian in it. Xept for Fomenko, who occasionaly gave an interview after a year of silence.

well, the money must come from somwhere...

solarcold wrote:Makes me wonder how does Marussia even prove being a Russian team. We're all confused here, as there's nothing really Russian in it. Xept for Fomenko, who occasionaly gave an interview after a year of silence.

It took Benetton around 12 years to decide that they were actually Italian (despite being based in the UK).

...and this weeks driver is ....Jules Bianchi!!

Actually I think that Marussia have now got an excellent driver pairing this year and the car looks to be at least a match for the Caterham.

I know Max Chilton gets some stick for bringing Aon money to the team but I can see him being competitive against Bianchi, who is very highly regarded.

Would be ironic to see Bianchi overtaking Sutil at some point this season

DG

Divina_Galica wrote:...and this weeks driver is ....Jules Bianchi!!

Actually I think that Marussia have now got an excellent driver pairing this year and the car looks to be at least a match for the Caterham.

I know Max Chilton gets some stick for bringing Aon money to the team but I can see him being competitive against Bianchi, who is very highly regarded.

Would be ironic to see Bianchi overtaking Sutil at some point this season

DG

And, inevitably, the move has opened up speculation about whether Marussia might be switching to Ferrari customer engines in 2014 if Bianchi remains with the team - especially since his move coincided with an announcement from Marussia that they were looking for a new engine partner once their contract with Cosworth expires.

Overall, though, I would have to say that this development is probably a positive one for the team - OK, they are potentially losing out on some sponsorship money (although, given that Razia seems to have defaulted on those payments, that money probably wasn't forthcoming anyway) and, given that they only just announced him in time ahead of the Australian GP to fit the FIA's requirements, they probably wouldn't have been able to negotiate especially strong financial terms.
However, Bianchi has shown some promise and has the benefit of racking up a reasonable amount of mileage over at Force India, so he might well earn his place on merit (especially if Marussia are, as seems the case, more competitive than Caterham appear to be). Overall, I would agree that Marussia's driver line up is probably the stronger of the two teams (it makes you wonder how stable Caterham are if they are having to take on two pay drivers and a paying test driver (in the shape of Ma Quing Hua) to make ends meet), so hopefully that'll yield some benefits for the team.

mario wrote:And, inevitably, the move has opened up speculation about whether Marussia might be switching to Ferrari customer engines in 2014 if Bianchi remains with the team - especially since his move coincided with an announcement from Marussia that they were looking for a new engine partner once their contract with Cosworth expires.

The Marussia switch to Ferrari might be a bit more difficult to happen. For the moment, although some sort of negotiations will have certainly happened by now, Ferrari are just giving Bianchi a chance to ply his trade in anger. The not so small issue that such a deal poses is that Marussia has close ties with McLaren and they even share some infrastructures such as the wind tunnel and the simulator. Let's not forget that for all aspects Bianchi is a Ferrari backed up driver and McLaren might not be that happy for an 'enemy' happily making use of some of their stuff. Although probably they would not mind of getting an insight of the Ferrari engine when it first arrives if it indeed does, which in that case would be Ferrari to object.

DanielPT wrote:

mario wrote:And, inevitably, the move has opened up speculation about whether Marussia might be switching to Ferrari customer engines in 2014 if Bianchi remains with the team - especially since his move coincided with an announcement from Marussia that they were looking for a new engine partner once their contract with Cosworth expires.

The Marussia switch to Ferrari might be a bit more difficult to happen. For the moment, although some sort of negotiations will have certainly happened by now, Ferrari are just giving Bianchi a chance to ply his trade in anger. The not so small issue that such a deal poses is that Marussia has close ties with McLaren and they even share some infrastructures such as the wind tunnel and the simulator. Let's not forget that for all aspects Bianchi is a Ferrari backed up driver and McLaren might not be that happy for an 'enemy' happily making use of some of their stuff. Although probably they would not mind of getting an insight of the Ferrari engine when it first arrives if it indeed does, which in that case would be Ferrari to object.

It would certainly be a potential stumbling block - there was speculation that Force India might have turned down Bianchi, and a potential offer of Ferrari's engines, because they likewise didn't want to jeopardise their relationship with McLaren (which in their case is even more tightly integrated than Marussia).

However, a deal might not be entirely out of the question nevertheless - Renault have made it clear that they are not interested in supplying more teams in the future (if anything, now that Toro Rosso are trying to get a Renault engine, Renault want to cut one of their existing team contracts), and Mercedes seem content to stick with just their works team and two customers if possible (McLaren and Force India). Ferrari, by contrast, are known to be looking for additional customers - particularly if Toro Rosso do switch - to spread out their distribution costs, so Marussia are probably going to be a potential target for them.
Equally, there are rumours that suggest that McLaren might well have a different engine supplier to Marussia anyway in the not too distant future (although the rumours are very speculative, and therefore of dubious reliability, there are suggestions that McLaren have been courting Honda very heavily in an attempt to lure them back to F1 and get manufacturer backing once again).

A team replacing one of their drivers twice in less than a month must be a new record.

It's nice to see Bianchi get a seat. Although I have never really understood all the hype around him (Robin Frijns and Antonio Félix da Costa are far more deserving of an F1 drive), he must have done something special to have impressed Ferrari. If he really is as good as they claim, Caterham will face a real challenge.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for Razia. He is the first driver to lose his seat before his first GP start since José María López...

um, I don't think it's a new record, and Jarno Trulli & James Rossiter are more/as recent examples of losing a 'confirmed' seat. Or mr Nakajima and Stefan GP, depending on viewpoint...

In terms of the money received from Razia, Marussia specified that along with an initial up-front payment (which they received) there was to be another payment following on prior to the second test. After the deadline was missed, Marussia gave Razia and his backers some extra time, after which when it was clear the money wasn't going to be paid, they started looking for someone else to drive. Hence why Chilton got all four days at the first Barcelona test.

This is good news for Marussia. Jules Bianchi might have had a "hesitant" feeder-series career, but he has potential and if he doesn't get demoralised by the fact he's going to be entrenched at the back of the grid he might impress. He should have the measure of Max Chilton and become Marussia's backbone in their bid to topple Caterham this season.

It looks like Bianchi was right on the pace for Marrussia which is great news.

Gary Anderson has even placed him ahead of a Toro Rosso in Qualifying pace!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

Shadaza wrote:It looks like Bianchi was right on the pace for Marrussia which is great news.

Gary Anderson has even placed him ahead of a Toro Rosso in Qualifying pace!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055

Thanks to a gearbox penalty...