2012 Silly Season

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Nov 2011, 13:28

According to Someone On My Twitter Feed Who Nominally Belongs To The Whole Spanish Press But Actually Could Be Somewhat Reliable, Grosjean could be on his way to Williams.

RRMMNN and the Reverendo, now that would be a rejectful pair of drivers.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 30 Nov 2011, 16:42

Entry list announced.

Three important points:

- First Kimi's team-mate name was not supplied. Petrov's seat not that safe after all?

- Maldonado does not appear as Williams second driver. Do Williams expect to find cash elsewhere in order to give the boot to the Reverend?

- Last but not the least, HRT engine supplier is marked TBA. Is Life returning to F1? Motori Moderni? Are they hoping to snatch some Renaults? A surprise manufacturer is coming into the sport namely SEAT? Take your pick!

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 30 Nov 2011, 18:11

DanielPT wrote:Entry list announced.

Three important points:

- First Kimi's team-mate name was not supplied. Petrov's seat not that safe after all?

- Maldonado does not appear as Williams second driver. Do Williams expect to find cash elsewhere in order to give the boot to the Reverend?

- Last but not the least, HRT engine supplier is marked TBA. Is Life returning to F1? Motori Moderni? Are they hoping to snatch some Renaults? A surprise manufacturer is coming into the sport namely SEAT? Take your pick!

My guess are:

Kimi's team mate? Probaly Kubica.
Maldonado? No idea.
HRT engines? No idea too.

:roll:

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 30 Nov 2011, 18:18

I guess...

Renault wants more sincerity (i.e. money) from Petrov,
Venezulean money is not sure now - Maldonado won't get the drive without it
and quite surprisingly, this is down to money, as well, HRT waits what can they afford, maybe they're even looking for a driver/engine pair

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 Nov 2011, 18:43

DanielPT wrote:Entry list announced.

Three important points:

- First Kimi's team-mate name was not supplied. Petrov's seat not that safe after all?

- Maldonado does not appear as Williams second driver. Do Williams expect to find cash elsewhere in order to give the boot to the Reverend?

- Last but not the least, HRT engine supplier is marked TBA. Is Life returning to F1? Motori Moderni? Are they hoping to snatch some Renaults? A surprise manufacturer is coming into the sport namely SEAT? Take your pick!

Methinks that Kimi's team mate will be determined by who's sponsors are prepared to accept the possibility of their man being dropped mid season for Kubica to return to the car, should he be fit. At the moment, it seems Petrov's seat to lose, but you never know. He and his advisors might think he's earned a guaranteed seat (performance and cashflow permitting, obviously) for the year, and will go elsewhere should Lotus not provide such a guarantee. Senna might be more willing to accept a guaranteed half year and then we'll see if Kubica's fit to drive. I know Ferrari are lurking around the Pole, but I don't think they'll be prepared to part with money to get him out of his Lotus contract without seeing him back in an F1 car first.

Find it unlikely that Kubica will u-turn on his earlier statement about missing the start of the season.

Williams and the Pastor are probably negotiating a 'deal' at the moment, and as covered, there are mumurs about his backers.

HRT are most likely trying to get away from Cosworth engines, but haven't signed a deal yet because of financial issues. Surprised they haven't confirmed PdlR after saying they've signed him though.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 30 Nov 2011, 20:12

I'm still surprised at the lack of Force India info as well. Toro Rosso less so - we know their love of musical chairs.

Adding to this, this would make the "current" (i.e anybody who done at least one race in 2011) drivers still without seats:
Petrov
Senna
Kubica? (seeing as we dont know if/when he is back and where)
Sutil
Di Resta
Buemi
Alguasari
Barrichello
Maldonaldo
De La Rosa (Made an appearance so he does count)
Heidfelt
Chandok
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Liuzzi
Riccardo
and whoever Riccardo replaced (cant remember their name)

(And I I missed any, feel free to shout)

So my question is, what (new) do we know about any of the above?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 30 Nov 2011, 20:16

Renault 2nd Seat? Romain Grosjean.
HRT not having an engine supplier named? Some numpty at the factory forgot to send the paperwork which simultaneously explains the absence of Pedro de la Rosa from the list.
Pastor Maldonado? Going to HRT. Replaced by Petrov at Williams.
Those are my theories at least...

And an unusual suggestion here, but why not dump Trulli for Barrichello? He's even more experienced than JT and there's a chance he'll be closer to Kovalainen than JT was last season.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 30 Nov 2011, 21:21

I'll support those notions about Grosjean taking the second Renault/Lotus seat. I don't think Petrov will be happy at being immediately shafted into a number 2 role once again now that Kimi has shown up. I think he'd prefer number 1 status at another team, namely Williams, who will use his Russian money to replace Maldonado's dodgy pesetas (or whatever they use in Venezuela! :lol:

). Maldonado, now pushed out by Williams, will go to HRT who, unstable political situation or not, will grab the money with both hands, whilst employing a South American driver will also fit into their plans. The second Williams seat will then be filled by either Bottas, so they have at least some continuation from last year, or Sutil who will bring with him a little bit extra money. Force India will sign Di Resta and Hulkenberg as expected, whilst Toro Rosso will hold onto Alguersuari and Buemi with Vergne taking the third driver role, and finally Ricciardo will, with the help of Red Bull, buy out Trulli's contract at Lotus/Caterham to slot in alongside Kovalainen.

Boom!

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 30 Nov 2011, 21:46

Collieafc wrote:I'm still surprised at the lack of Force India info as well. Toro Rosso less so - we know their love of musical chairs.

Adding to this, this would make the "current" (i.e anybody who done at least one race in 2011) drivers still without seats:
Petrov
Senna
Kubica? (seeing as we dont know if/when he is back and where)
Sutil
Di Resta
Buemi
Alguasari
Barrichello
Maldonaldo
De La Rosa (Made an appearance so he does count)
Heidfelt
Chandok
Jerome D'Ambrosio
Liuzzi
Riccardo
and whoever Riccardo replaced (cant remember their name)

(And I I missed any, feel free to shout)

So my question is, what (new) do we know about any of the above?

Karthikeyan?

Oh, and Petrov was somehow left off the entry list for Renault. (I really don't feel like calling them Lotus.) Hmm

Post by **mario** » 30 Nov 2011, 21:59

AndreaModa wrote:I'll support those notions about Grosjean taking the second Renault/Lotus seat. I don't think Petrov will be happy at being immediately shafted into a number 2 role once again now that Kimi has shown up. I think he'd prefer number 1 status at another team, namely Williams, who will use his Russian money to replace Maldonado's dodgy pesetas (or whatever they use in Venezuela! ). Maldonado, now pushed out by Williams, will go to HRT who, unstable political situation or not, will grab the money with both hands, whilst employing a South American driver will also fit into their plans. The second Williams seat will then be filled by either Bottas, so they have at least some continuation from last year, or Sutil who will bring with him a little bit extra money. Force India will sign Di Resta and Hulkenberg as expected, whilst Toro Rosso will hold onto Alguersuari and Buemi with Vergne taking the third driver role, and finally Ricciardo will, with the help of Red Bull, buy out Trulli's contract at Lotus/Caterham to slot in alongside Kovalainen.

Boom!

According to Wikipedia they use the bolívares fuertes in Venezuela (replacing the devalued bolivar used between 1879 and 2007) - either way, I guess that Maldonado's position within Williams remains uncertain whilst the questions about PDVSA's sponsorship deal rumble on in the background.

As things stand, though, it's making it difficult to see how Petrov stands within the team, as well as the position of Grosjean and Bruno Senna. I guess it is also tied into the possibility that Boullier himself may not be entirely secure within the team - there has been a suggestion that Boullier may have lost some support with the current management because of the loss of several key technical team members this year, and if Boullier is sidelined then I'd expect Grosjean's chances of a seat will diminish and Petrov's chances of remaining put increase. I think that Petrov might remain in place for now, in part because Bruno Senna is unlikely to outbid him (and he hasn't proven to be significantly faster than Petrov so far, even allowing for the awkward circumstances behind his return) though Grosjean might possibly be called up as a mid season replacement.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 30 Nov 2011, 23:05

GP Update don't rate Petrov's chances of remaining there very highly...

AndreaModa wrote:I'll support those notions about Grosjean taking the second Renault/Lotus seat. I don't think Petrov will be happy at being immediately shafted into a number 2 role once again now that Kimi has shown up. I think he'd prefer number 1 status at another team, namely Williams, who will use his Russian money to replace Maldonado's dodgy pesetas (or whatever they use in Venezuela! ). Maldonado, now pushed out by Williams, will go to HRT who, unstable political situation or not, will grab the money with both hands, whilst employing a South American driver will also fit into their plans. The second Williams seat will then be filled by either Bottas, so they have at least some continuation from last year, or Sutil who will bring with him a little bit extra money. Force India will sign Di Resta and Hulkenberg as expected, whilst Toro Rosso will hold onto Alguersuari and Buemi with Vergne taking the third driver role, and finally Ricciardo will, with the help of Red Bull, buy out Trulli's contract at Lotus/Caterham to slot in alongside Kovalainen.

Boom!

As usual I pretty much agree with Andrea Moda. I'll go for Grosjean at Lotus (ta ta Bruno) with d'Ambrosio sharing the car on Fridays, Toro Rosso maintaining status quo with Vergne on Fridays and Ricciardo into Trulli's Caterham (or possibly Karun Chandhok. However, I reckon Mallya will keep the same driver line up - Sutil really stepped it up at the end of the season. I'm not sure where the Hulk fits really, as he's said hes not gonna sit around waiting for a drive for another year.

I'm not sure anyone will want Maldonado/Petrov - meanwhile I reckon van der Gaarde is going to join Williams. Thoughts?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Dec 2011, 08:17

JeremyMcClean wrote:Oh, and Petrov was somehow left off the entry list for Renault. (I really don't feel like calling them Lotus.) Hmm

According to his manager, Renault want Petrov to race for them - it's just a question of whether Petrov wants to race for them. They've given him until December 10 to make up his mind. I've never heard of a team doing that before, so this doesn't sound like PR spin.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 01 Dec 2011, 11:30

Captain Hammer wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Oh, and Petrov was somehow left off the entry list for Renault. (I really don't feel like calling them Lotus.) Hmm

According to his manager, Renault want Petrov to race for them - it's just a question of whether Petrov wants to race for them. They've given him until December 10 to make up his mind. I've never heard of a team doing that before, so this doesn't sound like PR spin.

That is unusual. Besides, its not as if there are any decent seats he may have a chance at. Only one really is Force India, and they are about the same as Renault. Everything else would be a downgrade

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 01 Dec 2011, 14:35

I guess Petrov wants the drive on merit. Renault wants money. Petrov got 10 days to decide "pay for a ride, or no ride"

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 01 Dec 2011, 15:27

But then if they wanted money why would they be considering Grosjean? He has no money - just support from Boullier.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 01 Dec 2011, 16:07

Cheaper engines?

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 01 Dec 2011, 19:15

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/10/ ... -get-real/

Saward voices his opinions about the Maria de Villota rumours. TBH I must say I agree with him on this one.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 01 Dec 2011, 19:23

jpm wrote:http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/lets-get-real/

Saward voices his opinions about the Maria de Villota rumours. TBH I must say I agree with him on this one.

Same here. I think it would be best for everyone if de Villota did not race in F1.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 01 Dec 2011, 20:22

Myrvold wrote:Cheaper engines?

Hopefully louder ones as well. And make them a V10.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 01 Dec 2011, 20:25

bring on the lady driver!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 01 Dec 2011, 21:07

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
jpm wrote:http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/lets-get-real/

Saward voices his opinions about the Maria de Villota rumours. TBH I must say I agree with him on this one.

Same here. I think it would be best for everyone if de Villota did not race in F1.

Sadly, much as I would love to see women in F1 competing alongside the men competively, Maria de Villota will probably only do as well as Giovanna Amati, Desire Wilson or Davina Galica.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:21

Maldonado to stay at Williams!

I guess it's not too surprising really, and it's good that they'll have some driver continuity next year, I just hope the deal doesn't vanish into thin air midway through the season if and when the Venezuelan parliament steps in!

EDIT: Autosport also reporting it.

Bottas is to remain as third driver too, so no third Finn on the grid sadly!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:26

Although Bottas will get Friday testing, which means that he is as good as confirmed for 2013. That makes Barrichello's stay at Williams slightly more likely - would someone like Sutil accept the fact that his engagement with Williams would be a one-year effort only?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:28

Klon wrote:Although Bottas will get Friday testing, which means that he is as good as confirmed for 2013. That makes Barrichello's stay at Williams slightly more likely - would someone like Sutil accept the fact that his engagement with Williams would be a one-year effort only?

But if Williams are to ever recover, putting Bottas in a race seat in the short term for the team would be a monumentally stupid idea. They need someone to lead the team and develop the car and the only way they can do that is offer someone like Sutil a long-term contract.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Dec 2011, 22:33

Wizzie wrote:
Klon wrote:Although Bottas will get Friday testing, which means that he is as good as confirmed for 2013. That makes Barrichello's stay at Williams slightly more likely - would someone like Sutil accept the fact that his engagement with Williams would be a one-year effort only?

But if Williams are to ever recover, putting Bottas in a race seat in the short term for the team would be a monumentally stupid idea. They need someone to lead the team and develop the car and the only way they can do that is offer someone like Sutil a long-term contract.

I'd agree with that, so they take advantage of Pastor's money in 2012, before giving him the boot in 2013, all the while Sutil has number 1 preference throughout 2012, and into 2013 at least, at which point Bottas comes in as the young gun for the future (like Rosberg was in '06 was it?).

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 01 Dec 2011, 23:19

AndreaModa wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Klon wrote:Although Bottas will get Friday testing, which means that he is as good as confirmed for 2013. That makes Barrichello's stay at Williams slightly more likely - would someone like Sutil accept the fact that his engagement with Williams would be a one-year effort only?

But if Williams are to ever recover, putting Bottas in a race seat in the short term for the team would be a monumentally stupid idea. They need someone to lead the team and develop the car and the only way they can do that is offer someone like Sutil a long-term contract.

I'd agree with that, so they take advantage of Pastor's money in 2012, before giving him the boot in 2013, all the while Sutil has number 1 preference throughout 2012, and into 2013 at least, at which point Bottas comes in as the young gun for the future (like Rosberg was in '06 was it?).

That's sounds like a pretty good plan actually. I suppose we all need to know what Force India are doing now.

Frentzen127 · Post by **Frentzen127** » 01 Dec 2011, 23:42

AndreaModa wrote:...the Venezuelan parliament...

As much as Hugo Chavez would lead us to believe so, there is no such thing like a Parliament over there. Chavez rules, everything else is protocol.
Mind you, when the opposition is laughable maybe that might be for the best.
But anyways, this is for F1 and not politics, so let's move on. I'm sure Frank is enjoying his money right now.

As for Sutil, Williams CAN recover (whether they will or not however is up to debate) and Force India is a question mark, as always. Team stability is good but there is nothing to suggest FI will begin 2012 where they left off 2011.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 02 Dec 2011, 01:33

AndreaModa wrote:Maldonado to stay at Williams!

Well, Venezuelan bucks were too good to refuse I suppose. Maldonado needs another season before I can berate him. Good thing a rookie actually stayed for another season! Unlike other rookies that have come and gone... looks like Hulkenburg ditching Williams (or the other way around) looks like a great idea now...

So what's Force India going to look like? Sutil, di Resta or Hulkenburg in those seats?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Dec 2011, 01:55

JeremyMcClean wrote:Well, Venezuelan bucks were too good to refuse I suppose. Maldonado needs another season before I can berate him. Good thing a rookie actually stayed for another season! Unlike other rookies that have come and gone... looks like Hulkenburg ditching Williams (or the other way around) looks like a great idea now...

Interesting thing is that the choice of Maldonado may have a certain amount of merit behind it: according to what I have heard, the sponsorship contract with PDVSA [sp?] says that drivers named by the company only need to be "considered". Of course this may not mean anything, but it may also mean that they could have ditched Maldonado and keep the money, I mean, you can't do much more to consider a driver than to let him have a full season.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 02 Dec 2011, 09:44

James Allen:

"This is a programme which Force India has used very effectively over the past two seasons, preparing Paul Di Resta for the step up to a race seat last year and this year keeping Nico Hulkenberg sharp for a race return in 2012. It is understood that Jules Bianchi will be given that same opportunity for Force India in 2012, so perhaps other teams are cottoning on to the benefits of regular Friday running."

I reckon....

RED BULL RACING (AUSTRIA)
Red Bull Racing Renault

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Mark Webber

VODAFONE MCLAREN MERCEDES (GREAT BRITAIN)
McLaren Mercedes

3. Jenson Button
4. Lewis Hamilton

SCUDERIA FERRARI (ITALY)
Ferrari

5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa

MERCEDES GP PETRONAS F1 TEAM (GERMANY)
Mercedes

7. Michael Schumacher
8. Nico Rosberg

LOTUS F1 TEAM (GREAT BRITAIN)
Lotus Renault

9. Kimi Raikkonen
10. Romain Grosjean

Jerome d'Ambrosio

SAHARA FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM (INDIA)
Force India Mercedes (or maybe Ferrari?)

11. Paul di Resta
12. Nico Hulkenberg

Jules Bianchi

SAUBER F1 TEAM (SWITZERLAND)
Sauber Ferrari

14. Kamui Kobayashi
15. Sergio Perez

SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO (ITALY)
STR Ferrari

16. Sebastien Buemi
17. Jaime Alguersuari

Jean-Eric Vergne

AT&T WILLIAMS (GREAT BRITAIN)
Williams Renault

18. Adrian Sutil
19. Pastor Maldonado

Valterri Bottas

TEAM CATERHAM (MALAYSIA)
Caterham Renault

20. Heikki Kovalainen
21. Daniel Ricciardo

Alex Rossi

HRT F1 TEAM (SPAIN)
HRT Wind-Power

22. Pedro de la Rosa
23. Dani Clos/ Tonio Liuzzi

MARUSSIA F1 TEAM (RUSSIA)
Marussia Cosworth

24. Timo Glock
25. Charles Pic

Rob Wickens

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 02 Dec 2011, 11:04

I have no idea why Force India would do a deal with Bianchi - then they'll be in the same mess next year, having to sack one of Di Resta and Hulkenberg...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Dec 2011, 11:12

Ed24 wrote:I have no idea why Force India would do a deal with Bianchi - then they'll be in the same mess next year, having to sack one of Di Resta and Hulkenberg...

Besides, if GP2 this year was anything to go by then Bianchi is nowhere near ready for F1 anyway.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 02 Dec 2011, 11:41

jpm wrote:HRT F1 TEAM (SPAIN)
HRT Wind-Power

22. Pedro de la Rosa
23. Dani Clos/ Tonio Liuzzi

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 02 Dec 2011, 12:38

Frentzen127 wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:...the Venezuelan parliament...

As much as Hugo Chavez would lead us to believe so, there is no such thing like a Parliament over there. Chavez rules, everything else is protocol.
Mind you, when the opposition is laughable maybe that might be for the best.

It can't be only "protocol" when 69 out of 167 members are NOT belonging to Chávez's party. Of course Chávez retains a clear majority, and any problem with the PDVSA contract will be cleared as long as Chávez wants, but it's not that different from what happens in other parts of the world. What I mean is, there will be public discussion of the issue in the Parliament. And last election, the laughable opposition won 5'3 million of the popular vote, against 5'4 of Chávez...

Post by **mario** » 02 Dec 2011, 13:54

I think the chances of Grosjean getting a seat in F1 are diminishing - BMW have announced that Grosjean will be testing their new DTM car, which seems like a slightly unusual step if he was expecting an F1 seat. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96610
Moreover, does anybody think that it is a little unusual that Boullier has been remarkably quiet recently, given that Kimi's arrival has boosted interest in the team? It's been Lopez, not Boullier, who has been making all the major announcements - some have suggested that Boullier might be out of favour with the current management, and perhaps he has lost some of his influence within the team.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Dec 2011, 19:16

mario wrote:I think the chances of Grosjean getting a seat in F1 are diminishing - BMW have announced that Grosjean will be testing their new DTM car, which seems like a slightly unusual step if he was expecting an F1 seat. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96610
Moreover, does anybody think that it is a little unusual that Boullier has been remarkably quiet recently, given that Kimi's arrival has boosted interest in the team? It's been Lopez, not Boullier, who has been making all the major announcements - some have suggested that Boullier might be out of favour with the current management, and perhaps he has lost some of his influence within the team.

Agree. It seems like after some technical staff desertion, now too Lopez came to the fore instead of Boullier. Can Boullier be on the verge of being replaced at Renault? They have a lot of to think about since this year's car has been a failure in terms of development, Nick Heidfeld choice and consequent boot might be on Boullier shoulders at the moment and you still have that gut feeling, which came following the way many sought to leave Renault as fast as possible, that the team has been run more or less like a headless chicken. The team gave Petrov some sort of ultimatum and I see no seats left for him at the moment. Now, what could make a driver to put his seat in jeopardy for something that is more than probable to end up nothing? This is shows that Renault is far from a happy place these days...

Maldonado was much or less certain. I could not see Williams giving up the cash that came with him. What is more important now is to find out who will be his team-mate. My bet is Sutil, who will show how ordinary Maldonado is!

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 03 Dec 2011, 06:23

Could Senna return to HRT?

That would be interesting. They want a South American, and he brings funding. Cant see it happening though, but could/will be his only chance to stay a F1.

I think Petrov and Sutil are keys. Both aren't too bad, and bring a lot of cash with em

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Dec 2011, 14:37

Petrov's money far outweighs that of Sutil's though. I agree with Mario above, I suspect that with Grosjean looking to others series, it's highly likely that Petrov will stay on at Renault. I still think Sutil will end up joining Williams though.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 05 Dec 2011, 15:47

I think Grrrrrjjjjjjjjjjnnnnnnnnn is toasted this year...

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 06 Dec 2011, 18:51

Meanwhile in Russia:
strong rumours about Grosjean replacing Petrov.