Grand Prix Rejects

mario wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

Rob Dylan wrote:Admittedly I don't know very much about Liberty Media, but this is the kind of attitude I can get behind. And hopefully now that Bernie has gone, the extent of quick-buck money-extraction races popping up around the world will stop.

"I think it's our job to do far more to help the promoters to be successful," said Maffei.

"Frankly Bernie's attitude was, 'How much can I extract from them?'

"I heard him call them the victims - 'How much can I extract, how much up front?'

"So we end up with races in places like Baku in Azerbaijan, where they paid us a big race fee, but it does nothing to build the long-term brand and health of the business."

This sends shivers down my spine. There is so much right in this, so much "let's put the sport back in the right track" that I feel the chaotic universe as we know and love it is about to collapse into a newly created Briatore-like black hole.

The thing is, it is one thing to make those sorts of statements and quite another for them to actually implement the changes in direction they are promising. I'd rather wait and see what they actually deliver on first before getting too carried away...

I'd also agree with your sentiment that there do seem to be a number of fans who have spoken about "going back to how things were", although invariably it is almost always a highly romanticised version of the past that has been heavily stripped of the less pleasant side. It will never be possible to replicate that vision - the world has moved on far from those days, and every attempt to try and "reset the clock", as it were, would almost certainly be a failure as it could never possibly live up to the idealised version that people want to exist and never can.

One thing that Bernie was (and still is) extremely good at is being a businessman. Some of the deals he pulled off for himself were extraordinary. Remember the time he was beaten up by muggers and then featured in a watch advert with his bruised face, implying that the watch was good enough to still. Not sure, he got any money for doing that but it probably did no harm for his relationship with the watch company.

Anyway, my point is the folks at Liberty Media will need to be good businessmen too. You don't run a sport for fun. It's one thing to say you'll take F1 back to the old tracks but when you knock on the door of the Nurburgring and find out that they are flat broke then commercially you've got a situation on your hands. Anyone astute would take the money Baku are offering before considering the "long-term health of the brand". A brand is intangible, the money is right there. Furthermore, given the structure of motorsport, Formula 1 would have to do something very wrong indeed to lose its position as the pinnacle of motorsport.

I'd agree with Mario's assessment of not getting ahead of ourselves. I like many others am excited by the prospect of a return to Paul Ricard but how long will it be before people still calling to axe it after one bad race?

McLaren just posted this to their official Twitter:

Can't be a coincidence that they picked Mercedes-Benz branded engine cover instead of Honda, right? Right?

Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

McLaren are announcing a return to Goodyear tyres? Or just that they are aspiring to having a Good Year this year?

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

Yes, they could have been working on upgrades for Australia instead of doing that rubbish, but since the engine apparently has a short Life expectancy, someone must be busy keeping the fans entertained in order to not be Lambasted when the smoke finally clears. For the workers there, I also imagine that it must be distracting to have such Subpar engines.

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

I doubt the folks in the marketing department are particuarly handy with kinetic energy systems.

In lighter news, Palermo's top striker Ilija Nestorovski has a clear opinion on the new Force India livery.

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

You really think the person who runs Mclarens Twitter account is the same person who builds the car?

andrew wrote:

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

You really think the person who runs Mclarens Twitter account is the same person who builds the car?

They can multi task, can't they?

andrew wrote:

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

You really think the person who runs Mclarens Twitter account is the same person who builds the car?

No, but I think in an organisation such as McLaren nothing gets done without a nod from someone up top.
People up top need to be on Honda's case, and with things like that it's not coming across to me that they have their priorities straight. You not only have to BE the part, you have to LOOK the part.
But since apparently it's just benign banter, I'd like to furthermore ask what does this glorified navel gazing actually accomplish. They didn't even get their cars right. Somebody who uses the MP4/21 over the MP4/23 for promotional purposes is raving mad.
I may be once again unduly harsh but the way I see it cutting them slack makes no difference so why should I?

CoopsII wrote:

andrew wrote:

Frentzen127 wrote:Their time might be better spent working on the car rather than coming up with that rubbish.

You really think the person who runs Mclarens Twitter account is the same person who builds the car?

They can multi task, can't they?

Well maybe it's just what Jenson Button does these days....

This wrote:Well maybe it's just what Jenson Button does these days....

You could be on to something..

Gelael to Toro Rosso.

Yes, really.

I checked the date twice.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT1lVtKDJYY/
For anyone who hasn't been on the internet in the last six hours, it's pretty much been confirmed that Timo Glock has been elected chancellor of Germany contacted or involved with an F1 team or institution in some kind of way today, and that the news will be announced sometime soon.

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/BT1lVtKDJYY/
For anyone who hasn't been on the internet in the last six hours, it's pretty much been confirmed that Timo Glock has been elected chancellor of Germany contacted or involved with an F1 team or institution in some kind of way today, and that the news will be announced sometime soon.

I tried to google which recent F1 car the air intake would fit best and 2015 Lotus looks the closest. Palmer heading out maybe?

IS THAT GLOCK?!

If he's willing to throw out the hashtag #f1comeback it might just be. So where would he go?

• Ferrari - Bwoah.
• Force India - Have a stable driver pairing.
• Haas - Have two strong drivers.
• McLaren - An outside possibility if Alonso had enough and Button was similarly disinterested in a full season.
• Mercedes - Obviously not.
• Red Bull - He's not part of the system.
• Renault - PALMER NEEDS REPLACING.
• Sauber - He wouldn't want another Virgin/Marussia.
• Toro Rosso - Still not part of the system.
• Williams - Di Resta is their back-up.

Either that or Stefan GP is making a late entry with Manor equipment it's a false alarm.

Aislabie wrote:IS THAT GLOCK?!

If he's willing to throw out the hashtag #f1comeback it might just be. So where would he go?

• Ferrari - Bwoah.
• Force India - Have a stable driver pairing.
• Haas - Have two strong drivers.
• McLaren - An outside possibility if Alonso had enough and Button was similarly disinterested in a full season.
• Mercedes - Obviously not.
• Red Bull - He's not part of the system.
• Renault - PALMER NEEDS REPLACING.
• Sauber - He wouldn't want another Virgin/Marussia.
• Toro Rosso - Still not part of the system.
• Williams - Di Resta is their back-up.

Either that or Stefan GP is making a late entry with Manor equipment it's a false alarm.

Could also be F1 boats. Or maybe BOSS GP with an old F1 car.

razta wrote:http://en.f1i.com/news/267559-vettel-mercedes-signed-sealed-says-insider.html

Glock to Ferrari confirmed?

Vettel and Hamilton in the same team? I doubt. Mercedes learned the lesson after 2016 season. But a swap is possible. Hamilton to Ferrari sounds legit.

Dj_bereta wrote:Vettel and Hamilton in the same team? I doubt. Mercedes learned the lesson after 2016 season. But a swap is possible. Hamilton to Ferrari sounds legit.

But why would Hamilton leave?

Aislabie wrote:IS THAT GLOCK?!

If he's willing to throw out the hashtag #f1comeback it might just be. So where would he go?

• Ferrari - Bwoah.
• Force India - Have a stable driver pairing.
• Haas - Have two strong drivers.
• McLaren - An outside possibility if Alonso had enough and Button was similarly disinterested in a full season.
• Mercedes - Obviously not.
• Red Bull - He's not part of the system.
• Renault - PALMER NEEDS REPLACING.
• Sauber - He wouldn't want another Virgin/Marussia.
• Toro Rosso - Still not part of the system.
• Williams - Di Resta is their back-up.

Either that or Stefan GP is making a late entry with Manor equipment it's a false alarm.

There is perhaps an outside chance that he is working for a team as a development driver in their simulators, but it does seem unlikely that he will be replacing somebody on the grid right now.

AustralianStig wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:Vettel and Hamilton in the same team? I doubt. Mercedes learned the lesson after 2016 season. But a swap is possible. Hamilton to Ferrari sounds legit.

But why would Hamilton leave?

I would say that the bigger question right now is why Vettel would want to leave - right now, it look as if Ferrari have the quickest car on the grid. Unless he suspects that Ferrari will go downhill and Mercedes will overtake them in 2018, surely the most sensible thing would be to stay at Ferrari?

razta wrote:http://en.f1i.com/news/267559-vettel-mercedes-signed-sealed-says-insider.html

There's 'silly' and then there's plain old 'just made up'.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130583/ferrari-splits-with-f1-engine-chief
Um, what?

It seems not everything is as rosy as it may have appeared at the start of the start of 2017 for Ferrari... I mean, I don't know why this in particular has happened that such a senior engine guy has gone, but that atmosphere around the whole team just seems to have become more and more toxic since the last few years Alonso was there. They do a big talk about how close they are as a team when they have the good days (like the beginning of 2015) but on the bad days - and I'm not sure what Ferrari's expectations even are these days - it seems there's always some kind of major firing happening during the summer or winter breaks. That can't be a healthy attitude whatsoever for the staff, with such a changeable management.

Rob Dylan wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130583/ferrari-splits-with-f1-engine-chief
Um, what?

It seems not everything is as rosy as it may have appeared at the start of the start of 2017 for Ferrari... I mean, I don't know why this in particular has happened that such a senior engine guy has gone, but that atmosphere around the whole team just seems to have become more and more toxic since the last few years Alonso was there. They do a big talk about how close they are as a team when they have the good days (like the beginning of 2015) but on the bad days - and I'm not sure what Ferrari's expectations even are these days - it seems there's always some kind of major firing happening during the summer or winter breaks. That can't be a healthy attitude whatsoever for the staff, with such a changeable management.

There have been a few claims that the reason why he has left Ferrari is because he has been put in charge of the hybrid powertrain division at Fiat-Chrysler, and that he has in fact already been working in that position for a few months (it's just that it is only recently that he has closed out his role at Ferrari).

Now, if that counter claim is correct - we will have to wait and see about that - then to me that sounds like it might have been more of a promotion than a demotion.

Now that Porsche have pulled out of WEC and won't be joining Formula E until 2019, could that mean... ANDRÉ LOTTERER is finally free to get a full-time F1 drive for 2018?

Imagine if instead of Palmer and Ericsson, we had Kubica and Lotterer driving!

Waris wrote:Now that Porsche have pulled out of WEC and won't be joining Formula E until 2019, could that mean... ANDRÉ LOTTERER is finally free to get a full-time F1 drive for 2018?

Imagine if instead of Palmer and Ericsson, we had Kubica and Lotterer driving!

So, to combine all the current rumour mill together into one (rejectful) package: Lotterer and Maldonado/Kubica/Palmer/various GP2 people driving for Stefan-Honda in 2018/19?

Waris wrote:Now that Porsche have pulled out of WEC and won't be joining Formula E until 2019, could that mean... ANDRÉ LOTTERER is finally free to get a full-time F1 drive for 2018?

Imagine if instead of Palmer and Ericsson, we had Kubica and Lotterer driving!

I know it is a little tongue in cheek, but I believe that Porsche has said that all of their current drivers will remain under contract with them for the foreseeable future. Given that Porsche have talked about focussing their efforts on their GTE race car, I think we'll see all of Porsche's LMP1 drivers turn up behind the wheel of GT cars instead.

And now, with news that will probably surprise few but will perhaps disappoint some, Ferrari have announced that Kimi has signed a contract extension for 2018 - which suggests that the top end of the driver market is likely to remain fairly static. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raik ... al-943426/

Safe decision. Very sensible. I wonder if any team orders have been included in the contract....

CoopsII wrote:Safe decision. Very sensible. I wonder if any team orders have been included in the contract....

Most likely, considering the rumor persists that Vettel outright has demanded Kimi as his teammate. Honestly though, for Kimi, why not sign? You already have a title, you're getting paid 8 figures to drive for the second best team on the grid, you are unfireable as long as your teammate stays (allegedly), and the team has loosened up on you since your first stint. Stupid not to stay.

Wallio wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Safe decision. Very sensible. I wonder if any team orders have been included in the contract....

Most likely, considering the rumor persists that Vettel outright has demanded Kimi as his teammate. Honestly though, for Kimi, why not sign? You already have a title, you're getting paid 8 figures to drive for the second best team on the grid, you are unfireable as long as your teammate stays (allegedly), and the team has loosened up on you since your first stint. Stupid not to stay.

And if it all goes wrong, he knows he will be paid off again...

And shouldn't we have a separate 2018 silly season thread by now?

dr-baker wrote:

Wallio wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Safe decision. Very sensible. I wonder if any team orders have been included in the contract....

Most likely, considering the rumor persists that Vettel outright has demanded Kimi as his teammate. Honestly though, for Kimi, why not sign? You already have a title, you're getting paid 8 figures to drive for the second best team on the grid, you are unfireable as long as your teammate stays (allegedly), and the team has loosened up on you since your first stint. Stupid not to stay.

And if it all goes wrong, he knows he will be paid off again...

And shouldn't we have a separate 2018 silly season thread by now?

If you were to start a new thread, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a relatively short thread given that the 2018 market looks like it is going to be reasonably static.

As you say, for Kimi the deal is probably about the best deal that he can strike in the current driver market. Similarly, from Ferrari's point of view the deal is a decent one too: for a start, Kimi and Vettel work well together and are therefore easier to manage than some other driver combinations. Furthermore, Kimi still reportedly provides solid technical feedback, which a less experienced driver might struggle to replicate.

The other aspect is that the driver market is a bit static this year, with a number of drivers having signed long term contracts already. Red Bull, having lost Vettel, seem to have ensured that they have watertight contracts with Ricciardo and Verstappen and have both drivers under contract for 2018; Hamilton's contract with Mercedes runs through to the end of next year, and it looks like Mercedes will probably extend Bottas's contract as he does seem to be performing decently and is getting on quite well with Hamilton (after the infighting with Rosberg, that must be a bit of a relief ).

They could probably have dipped into the midfield pack, but I suspect that another reason why they've signed Kimi for another year is that the driver market looks like it will be much more fluid in 2018, when multiple drivers will be renegotiating terms. Kimi, in that sense, is also a decent stop gap - they know what he is like, and they know that they will have a wider range of options available to them next year if they do want to replace him.

And having already announced Kimi was staying, Ferrari have now announced a three year extension for Vettel's contract. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... 20-945074/

It looks like the 2017/18 silly season has been very quiet so far - as things stand, over half the grid have already confirmed that they will be staying exactly where they were. Does anybody know what the smallest number of driver changes between seasons is? At the moment, it looks like it's going to be a fairly static grid for 2018.

mario wrote:Does anybody know what the smallest number of driver changes between seasons is? At the moment, it looks like it's going to be a fairly static grid for 2018.

2008-9 was rather quiet, the only changes were at RBR and STR (Vettel replaces DC and Buemi fills the gap). But then 2009 had the-mother-of-all-mid-season-driver-changes, as someone put it on here in the past.

good_Ralf wrote:

mario wrote:Does anybody know what the smallest number of driver changes between seasons is? At the moment, it looks like it's going to be a fairly static grid for 2018.

2008-9 was rather quiet, the only changes were at RBR and STR (Vettel replaces DC and Buemi fills the gap). But then 2009 had the-mother-of-all-mid-season-driver-changes, as someone put it on here in the past.

That's a fair point - we probably won't quite have that quiet an off season, but I can see it being reasonably close.

Looking at the TBCs for 2018, this is how I see it working out:

Force India: Despite the conflict with his teammate, I don't see Perez getting dropped, he is too consistent and brings good money to team. Nor is there any good reason for Perez to move himself as there are no better drives around - perhaps Renault have potential but that is Hulkenberg's team.

McLaren: Alonso will stay as long as McLaren switch engine providers. He might moan, but there's also still fire in the belly and I think he believes Formula 1 is where he should be.

Mercedes: They'd be mad not to keep Bottas.

Renault: Palmer will go, and they'll bank on Kubica being able to come back. If not, they can't take much of a step back from Palmer, even if Sirotkin is slow. If they are desperate for points, then they might approach Kvyat or Wehrlein as drivers with experience, rather than Sirotkin.

Sauber: Ericsson will definitely stay, being the team's golden boy. Wehrlein probably hasn't done enough to impress anyone else, so I don't see him moving either. Ferrari might pump them with money to take on Charles Leclerc, but Ferrari have no immediate need to assess him given that the team is built around Vettel with Raikkonen operating at a perfect not-good-enough-to-pose-any-threat-to-Seb-but-good-enough-for-4th-each-race level. Ferrari are patient, if you look at the one driver who came through their ranks, Felipe Massa, he didn't exactly have a conventional path to the Ferrari seat - he had one bad season, then a break, then two mediocre seasons, with Ferrari then signing him regardless of any convincing results...

Toro Rosso: It's odd that they gave Kvyat another year, there's no forward plan for him. But you've got to suspect that the Red Bull programme questions Pierre Gasly's ability. They are usually so quick to promote talent when they can - see Max Verstappen. So for reasons I can't quite explain, I think we'll be seeing Kvyat again for at least part of next season.

Williams: They'll do everything they can to convince Massa to stay another year as there's no way they'll drop bankroll Lance Stroll. The Martini deal puts them in a sticky situation and unless they want Palmer (ha ha ha) there's simply no one else old enough and good enough to lead the team.

So yes, the only driver change I can see is Kubica or Sirotkin for Palmer at Renault. Behind that, I give Kvyat and Wehrlein each 60-70% chance of keeping their seats. The 2018-19 might see some seat changes at the top, so I think teams will keep their powder dry until then.

Blimey, Brendon Hartley driving for Toro Rosso at Austin! I'd forgotten he existed... Talk about a blast from the past. And he's still only 27!

Paul Hayes wrote:Blimey, Brendon Hartley driving for Toro Rosso at Austin! I'd forgotten he existed... Talk about a blast from the past. And he's still only 27!

Wasn't he supposed to replace Bourdais in 2009 originally?

FullMetalJack wrote:

Paul Hayes wrote:Blimey, Brendon Hartley driving for Toro Rosso at Austin! I'd forgotten he existed... Talk about a blast from the past. And he's still only 27!

Wasn't he supposed to replace Bourdais in 2009 originally?

He was until Alguersuari arrived.