Grand Prix Rejects

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80577
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80579

Di Grassi to the 2nd Virgin seat and Parente and Razia the Virgin testers

Cool team launch, with those Virgin jackets.

A lot cooler than this, amirite?

Henrique wrote:Cool team launch, with those Virgin jackets.

A lot cooler than this, amirite?

is that robert fripp on the right?

I imagine that Sauber will probably field a line-up of Heidfeld and Fisichella, unless Schumacher's comeback doesn't come off, in which case Heidfeld will get that seat.

if Petrov and Kobayashi don't get any seats it'll be sad

elho wrote:if Petrov and Kobayashi don't get any seats it'll be sad

i'd like to add JV to that little list too... if that's okay?

Could be an interesting battle at the back then, driver-wise. The (relatively) young guns of Virgin F1 versus the old duffers at Lotus

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80578
De La Rosa is still Campos' first choice for the other seat it seems

Wizzie wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80578
De La Rosa is still Campos' first choice for the other seat it seems

That seems like publicocrap to scare whatever other driver wants that seat into ponying up the cash quickly.

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/327190/Kobayashi_and_Baguette_set_to_join_Sauber/

crazydude1992 wrote:http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/327190/Kobayashi_and_Baguette_set_to_join_Sauber/

Let that be true, please, HWNSNBM.

thehemogoblin wrote:

crazydude1992 wrote:http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/327190/Kobayashi_and_Baguette_set_to_join_Sauber/

Let that be true, please, HWNSNBM.

Just heard the same stroy here. Pete Sauber is waiting to sign the other driver to make a full announcement.

rffp wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

crazydude1992 wrote:http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/327190/Kobayashi_and_Baguette_set_to_join_Sauber/

Let that be true, please, HWNSNBM.

Just heard the same stroy here. Pete Sauber is waiting to sign the other driver to make a full announcement.

Cowboy-ashi to change his name to ham-n-cheese!

HWNSNBM is our God and Peter Sauber is our Saviour

Right, here are my current predictions:

McLaren - 1/Jenson Button, 2/Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes - 3/Nico Rosberg, 4/Michael Schumacher or Nick Heidfeld
Red Bull - 5/Sebastian Vettel, 6/Mark Webber
Ferrari - 7/Felipe Massa, 8/Fernando Alonso
Williams - 9/Rubens Barrichello, 10/Nico Hulkenberg
Renault - 11/Robert Kubica, 12/Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Bourdais or Vitaly Petrov
Force India - 14/Adrian Sutil, 15/Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso - 16/Sebastian Buemi, 17/Jaime Alguersuari
Lotus - 18/Jarno Trulli, 19/Heikki Kovalainen
Campos - 20/Pedro de la Rosa or Pastor Maldonado*, 21/Bruno Senna
USF1 - 22/Jose Maria Lopez, 23/JR Hildebrand, Scott Speed or Maldonado*.
Virgin - 24/Timo Glock, 25/Lucas Di Grassi
Sauber - 26/Kamui Kobayashi, 27/Bertrand Baguette

*I hope someone goes for Maldonado, as given his previous form he could easily attempt to out-reject Lopez.

I hope someone goes for Grosjean. He was very bad this year, but was thrown in in very difficult circumstances and deserves a proper shot. It'd be sad if his only go at F1 was that miserable effort, I think with a bit of testing he could do okay.

fjackdaw wrote:I hope someone goes for Grosjean. He was very bad this year, but was thrown in in very difficult circumstances and deserves a proper shot. It'd be sad if his only go at F1 was that miserable effort, I think with a bit of testing he could do okay.

I think the guy would benefit from a year in GP2, it did wonders for Timo Glock but it took him 3-4 years to get back to the top.

Grosjean crashes too much and didn't make up for it enough in raw pace. Rookies are bound to make more mistakes than most in their first season, but if you don't have the pace to keep up with the rest of the field you don't really deserve a place in F1.
This is probably what made Kobayashi's performances so amazing; a rookie that is fast and doesn't make big mistakes.

kostas22 wrote:Grosjean crashes too much and didn't make up for it enough in raw pace. Rookies are bound to make more mistakes than most in their first season, but if you don't have the pace to keep up with the rest of the field you don't really deserve a place in F1.

Yeah, I just feel bad for the guy.

If Renault don't keep GRSJN, will that make him the Franck Lagorce of 2009?

I've read somewhere that it will be GenII, the new partner in Renault F1 who decide upon the driver of the 2nd Renault. I think it would be daring if they put Ho-Pin Tung in the car because the last thing Renault need is being a "one car team" again for a 3rd year in succession. However, amongst the drivers under contract to Genii (or is it GenII?) partner Gravity is one Jacques Villeneuve who is back in training for a comeback.

Enoch and Jamie, do you have a GMIF1P clip of Jacques Villeneuve's previous comeback with Renault?

All I could find on youtube were these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJQHXknj ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wpVRoqh ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0DJ0NkxivA

fjackdaw wrote:I hope someone goes for Grosjean. He was very bad this year, but was thrown in in very difficult circumstances and deserves a proper shot. It'd be sad if his only go at F1 was that miserable effort, I think with a bit of testing he could do okay.

Totally agree.

fjackdaw wrote:I hope someone goes for Grosjean. He was very bad this year, but was thrown in in very difficult circumstances and deserves a proper shot. It'd be sad if his only go at F1 was that miserable effort, I think with a bit of testing he could do okay.

For me, he's not special. He's too average. With so many new talents knocking F1's doors packing serious money, he certainly will have to prove himself somehow to show he's really worthy. Perhaps it's too soon to judge, but for now I don't see any special talent blossoming from him.

Phoenix wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:I hope someone goes for Grosjean. He was very bad this year, but was thrown in in very difficult circumstances and deserves a proper shot. It'd be sad if his only go at F1 was that miserable effort, I think with a bit of testing he could do okay.

For me, he's not special. He's too average. With so many new talents knocking F1's doors packing serious money, he certainly will have to prove himself somehow to show he's really worthy. Perhaps it's too soon to judge, but for now I don't see any special talent blossoming from him.

Agreed. One Trulli in F1 is enough

Yannick wrote:If Renault don't keep GRSJN, will that make him the Franck Lagorce of 2009?

I've read somewhere that it will be GenII, the new partner in Renault F1 who decide upon the driver of the 2nd Renault. I think it would be daring if they put Ho-Pin Tung in the car because the last thing Renault need is being a "one car team" again for a 3rd year in succession. However, amongst the drivers under contract to Genii (or is it GenII?) partner Gravity is one Jacques Villeneuve who is back in training for a comeback.

Enoch and Jamie, do you have a GMIF1P clip of Jacques Villeneuve's previous comeback with Renault?

All I could find on youtube were these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJQHXknj ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wpVRoqh ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0DJ0NkxivA

I don't think Villeneuve would want to partner Kubica. Remember, it was Kubica who saw Jacques out of F1 in mid-2006.

So with Kobayashi's drive confirmed for next year, is it too much to ask for a seat for Sato?

(Full disclosure: I'm Chinese, but I have personal ties with Japan...)

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Villeneuve would want to partner Kubica. Remember, it was Kubica who saw Jacques out of F1 in mid-2006.

Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

Klon wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Villeneuve would want to partner Kubica. Remember, it was Kubica who saw Jacques out of F1 in mid-2006.

Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

...which JV is going to lose.

kostas22 wrote:

Klon wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Villeneuve would want to partner Kubica. Remember, it was Kubica who saw Jacques out of F1 in mid-2006.

Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

...which JV is going to lose.

I doubt that ... very much.

Klon wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

Klon wrote:Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

...which JV is going to lose.

I doubt that ... very much.

I highly doubt Villeneuve has gotten any better in the last 3-and-a-half years, nor Kubica any worse. So how would Villeneuve even get close to beating him? Especially considering Kubica is likely entering the prime of his career, with Villeneuve's prime ending about 8 years ago.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

Klon wrote:Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

...which JV is going to lose.

I highly doubt Villeneuve has gotten any better in the last 3-and-a-half years, nor Kubica any worse. So how would Villeneuve even get close to beating him? Especially considering Kubica is likely entering the prime of his career, with Villeneuve's prime ending about 8 years ago.

Simply due to the fact that Kubica is nothing but a glorified rookie who has so far not excelled when his car hasn't. For me, to be perfectly honest, he has shown nothing so far that prooves he could be beating Villeneuve by miles if at all, especially if the Renault for 2010 is not a world beating car, seeing as he lost out to Heidfeld in "inferior" cars. But of course, everything is speculation until the seats are confirmed.

As for JV, I just point to the statistic that he never led a single lap after 1997...

Besides, Kubica got more podiums than JV did in 2006, and was only 1 point short, despite doing less races, and JV having 9 years of experience...

Collieafc wrote:Besides, Kubica got more podiums than JV did in 2006

Did Villeneuve finish in the podium in 2006?

Phoenix wrote:

Collieafc wrote:Besides, Kubica got more podiums than JV did in 2006

Did Villeneuve finish in the podium in 2006?

No. Kubica did, although it was his only points finish. The highest single finish JV got was 6th

Collieafc wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

Collieafc wrote:Besides, Kubica got more podiums than JV did in 2006

Did Villeneuve finish in the podium in 2006?

No. Kubica did, although it was his only points finish. The highest single finish JV got was 6th

I suspected it

Klon wrote:Simply due to the fact that Kubica is nothing but a glorified rookie who has so far not excelled when his car hasn't. For me, to be perfectly honest, he has shown nothing so far that prooves he could be beating Villeneuve by miles if at all, especially if the Renault for 2010 is not a world beating car, seeing as he lost out to Heidfeld in "inferior" cars. But of course, everything is speculation until the seats are confirmed.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're seeing this objectively. Kubica has repeatedly shown himself to be more than just a 'glorified rookie', looking at his performances in Italy 2006, where he kept Massa's Ferrari at bay, France 2007, his first race after his shunt in Canada, where he qualified and finished 4th, Bahrain 2008, where, despite having to pit early for fuel, he was able to stay within 5 seconds of Massa, the winner. His entire 2008 was very good, staying in contention for the title until the Chinese Grand Prix, and would likely have been able to take the title in Brazil, had Nakajima not taken him off in Australia. There were also a few damn good drives from him this season, notably Spa, Brazil, and Australia. In my opinion, I feel Kubica has proven himself to be a potential threat to Vettel and Hamilton in the years to come, should he be given another car like the 2008 BMW.

Getting back to the original discussion now, if Villeneuve was in his prime, then yes, I might agree with you that he would be able to challenge Kubica. Now, however, he has not been in an F1 car for some time, he's 38, and I can't see him doing anything other than making as much a fool of himself as Nigel Mansell did in 1995, and Alan Jones did in 1985/86.

kostas22 wrote:

Klon wrote:

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Villeneuve would want to partner Kubica. Remember, it was Kubica who saw Jacques out of F1 in mid-2006.

Just one more reason for him to actually want that cockpit. Y'know, shoving it up hard to the man that replaced you. I smell lots of interesting (on-track-)conflicts.

...which JV is going to lose.

... badly...

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Getting back to the original discussion now, if Villeneuve was in his prime, then yes, I might agree with you that he would be able to challenge Kubica. Now, however, he has not been in an F1 car for some time, he's 38, and I can't see him doing anything other than making as much a fool of himself as Nigel Mansell did in 1995, and Alan Jones did in 1985/86.

CHALLENGE Kubica? Villeneuve in his prime would've hammered Kubica beyond a doubt, and Villeneuve is now 38 and going to prove that he is still bath-plugging epic, and has been out of F1 for way too long, and is therefore going to do the impossible by coming back as an old man and pwn again like he did when he was young.

Aftee a 2009 dull driver's market, 2010 gives us The Schumster. Mad, mad I say!

The remaining open seats are

-the Sauber-Ferrari seat besides Kamui Kobayashi
-the Renault-GenII seat besides Robert Kubica
-the Toro Rosso-Ferrari seat besides Sebastien Buemi

Then, there are 3 new entrants:

-Campos-Cosworth, cash-strapped and looking for a buyer, with one cockpit available besides Bruno Senna
-USF1-Cosworth, who may or may not be behind schedule regarding their car
-Stefan-Toyota, who don't have an entry but might have more backing than the other two, with one cockpit available besides Kazuki Nakajima

At the time, all of these empty seats appear to be looking for a pay driver of some sort. And the experienced guys such as Fisichella, Heidfeld, De La Rosa, Wurz, Villeneuve, Sato, Davidson, Gene, Montagny, Badoer clearly are not pay drivers.

At Toro Rosso, Franz Tost seems to want to wait until the last minute to re-sign Jaime Alguersuari, which is probably based on the memory of the repair bill at Suzuka and the pitlane incident during nightfall in the Emirates GP. Looking at the F1 careers of Scott Speed and Sebastien Bourdais at Toro Rosso, a late signing just about equals a mid-season driver change.
So Alguersuari might better take his sponsor money to Campos instead - if they make it to the grid, which they really should as their car has indeed seen a wind tunnel.

Among the established teams, that leaves the Sauber seat, which seems like the only reasonable cockpit to pick at this point, and the GenII-Renault seat, which most likely won't go to RMN GRSJN, whose career in F1 might have been sunk by the testing ban by then (just as Alguersuari's in fact). GenII are an investors consortium that probably want to make money from the team. They might have Gravity Sports Management as their subsidiary, but to make money with the team, they probably won't hire one of their own drivers unless he brings in a huge amount of money. So this is basically another paydriver seat.

Why use a screwdriver to mount a lightbulb when you could bring in a paydriver?

2010 could turn out to be one of the most interesting years since 1994 in terms of driver movement.