The Junior Series Thread

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 24 Jul 2013, 16:39

East Londoner wrote:I'm starting to think it's time to put GP2 out of its misery. After the final race of the season, lead the series out to a dark alley or behind a curtain, and shoot it in the head...

For me, the one thing that makes the series unwatchable is the awful stewardship in the series...

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 24 Jul 2013, 17:45

East Londoner wrote:I'm starting to think it's time to put GP2 out of its misery. After the final race of the season, lead the series out to a dark alley or behind a curtain, and shoot it in the head...

Yep, its starting to reach the same level as F3000 in its latter years

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 24 Jul 2013, 17:53

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
East Londoner wrote:I'm starting to think it's time to put GP2 out of its misery. After the final race of the season, lead the series out to a dark alley or behind a curtain, and shoot it in the head...

Yep, its starting to reach the same level as F3000 in its latter years

Maybe the series should be restarted again! I mean, the last F3000 champs included Liuzzi and Wirdheim, famous for being a Jaguar third driver but more so for slowing to wave to his team as he was about to win a race, only to gift the win to someone else! If you want to see the video on YouTube it's strangely titled "F1 driver shows off and loses".

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:02

good_Ralf wrote:Maybe the series should be restarted again! I mean, the last F3000 champs included Liuzzi and Wirdheim, famous for being a Jaguar third driver but more so for slowing to wave to his team as he was about to win a race, only to gift the win to someone else! If you want to see the video on YouTube it's strangely titled "F1 driver shows off and loses".

The race was won by none other than Nicolas Kiesa! Wirdheim's mistake was embarrassing but not as bad as this.

I agree that pay drivers are slowly but surely ruining motorsport, although high costs are the core of the problem. One would assume that the good drivers would get all the required sponsorship but it seems that only relations matter.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:07

The rise in pay drivers is probably representative of the world economy as a whole. Those who have money get what they want and end up in high-up places.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:28

tommykl wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:An Austrian who's anonymous

Surely he should be better known over here. After all, he's the nephew of a reject

Hans Binder, if I'm not mistaken? Egad...

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:34

East Londoner wrote:I'm starting to think it's time to put GP2 out of its misery. After the final race of the season, lead the series out to a dark alley or behind a curtain, and shoot it in the head...

But what would replace it? anyone who says Formula Renault 3.5 has better racing clearly has never watched a meeting!

Motorsport in general needs to sort out their promotion, I am sure many more people would be interested in series outside F1, if they were better advertised.

I am actually enjoying this year's GP2 and feel many drivers are F1 capable, but the cars are expensive to run and the prize money/sponsorship is simply not there to allow talent alone to race.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:47

GP2 should just ditch fly-aways. Of course the amount of European races have gone down and therefore GP2 has lost races.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:48

andrew2209 wrote:The rise in pay drivers is probably representative of the world economy as a whole. Those who have money get what they want and end up in high-up places.

To be fair, motorsport has always had pay drivers, and always will. Its a cyclical thing in my opinion. I mean, in the early to mid 90's, they were absolutely everywhere, but by the turn of the century the majority had disappeared from the top of motorsport. Of course, the economic situation will have some bearing on the amount of pay drivers as well

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:49

Reading Robert Frijns' twitter in the last few hours has proved how much he will be missed from GP2, best part of a dozen current drivers have posted their though on his seat-loss. A bit of a joke really as he's one of, if not, the best in GP2 at the moment.

And about replacing GP2 with something else, what exactly is out there?! Formula Renault 3.5?! :lol:

GP2 is the last level to F1 and has had many drivers promoted in the last few seasons: Maldonado, Perez, Grosjean, Kobayashi, Pic, Chilton, Bianchi, GVDG, Gutierrez Gutierrez...

Sure, some of those names are never going to be race winners let alone World Champions, but that's nearly half of the current grid from just the last four years.

Wanna go further back? 2008 GP2 season had Bruno Senna, Vitaly Petrov, Lucas Di Grassi, Karun Chandhok. 2006 had Lewis Hamilton and Timo Glock.

This shows that even if GP2 isn't full of talented individuals (just look at the names I've pulled out) it shows that there isn't really an alternative.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 24 Jul 2013, 18:55

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:The rise in pay drivers is probably representative of the world economy as a whole. Those who have money get what they want and end up in high-up places.

To be fair, motorsport has always had pay drivers, and always will. Its a cyclical thing in my opinion. I mean, in the early to mid 90's, they were absolutely everywhere, but by the turn of the century the majority had disappeared from the top of motorsport. Of course, the economic situation will have some bearing on the amount of pay drivers as well

I think that does prove the point about the economy in my opinion.

Post by **mario** » 24 Jul 2013, 20:51

andrew2209 wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:The rise in pay drivers is probably representative of the world economy as a whole. Those who have money get what they want and end up in high-up places.

To be fair, motorsport has always had pay drivers, and always will. Its a cyclical thing in my opinion. I mean, in the early to mid 90's, they were absolutely everywhere, but by the turn of the century the majority had disappeared from the top of motorsport. Of course, the economic situation will have some bearing on the amount of pay drivers as well

I think that does prove the point about the economy in my opinion.

You also had an increase in the number of manufacturer backed or supported teams around that time too in part because the wider economic situation made it more viable for them to enter - BMW, Honda, Toyota, Renault and, through Jaguar, Ford all came into the sport then, even if some of them did not hang around for too long. We also saw the entry of what is now arguably one of the more powerful sponsors within motorsport, Red Bull, enter and take over two teams, ensuring that both would be fairly well funded in the future.
Having manufacturers pump money into the sport did partially negate the need for pay drivers - if you think about it, it was mostly Sauber, Minardi and Jordan that didn't have consistent manufacturer backing in that era (and even then, Jordan did have some support from Honda over their engine supplies). Of course, we're now in a situation where most of those manufacturers since withdrew from the sport (although Honda is returning in the longer term), which has seen some number of teams losing support (Williams lost Toyota's more favourable engine deals and Sauber lost BMW) and others with squeezed finances, hence the rise of the pay driver.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 24 Jul 2013, 20:55

Another driver change for GP2 ahead of Hungaroring as Auto GP frontrunner, Italian Vittorio Ghirelli replaces Fabrizio Crestani at Venezuela GP Lazarus. Also, Dani Clos seems all but confirmed to replace Adrian Quaife-Hobbs's vacated seat at MP Motorsport...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 24 Jul 2013, 22:04

Well, with Frijns gone, it looks like his career has basically come to a dead end of sorts. In years to come, will we be looking at Frijns' move to GP2 as one of the biggest mistakes in recent memory?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Jul 2013, 22:07

Wizzie wrote:Well, with Frijns gone, it looks like his career has basically come to a dead end of sorts. In years to come, will we be looking at Frijns' move to GP2 as one of the biggest mistakes in recent memory?

I don't think so - what other options did he have?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 24 Jul 2013, 22:12

Wizzie wrote:Well, with Frijns gone, it looks like his career has basically come to a dead end of sorts. In years to come, will we be looking at Frijns' move to GP2 as one of the biggest mistakes in recent memory?

And with Sauber in financial trouble, they may end up dropping the Dutchman in the name of sponsorship money.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Jul 2013, 22:58

Salamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Well, with Frijns gone, it looks like his career has basically come to a dead end of sorts. In years to come, will we be looking at Frijns' move to GP2 as one of the biggest mistakes in recent memory?

I don't think so - what other options did he have?

I guess it's time for him to try Indycars instead. But even there he needs money, drivers like Baguette are now also racing in endurance, because of lack of money for Indycars.
It's really a shame that big companies choose for the wrong drivers. Yes, the good drivers usually don't want to do all the PR-stuff, but still, shouldn't companies associate themselves with greatness instead of mediocrity?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 25 Jul 2013, 11:52

This wrote:
Salamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Well, with Frijns gone, it looks like his career has basically come to a dead end of sorts. In years to come, will we be looking at Frijns' move to GP2 as one of the biggest mistakes in recent memory?

I don't think so - what other options did he have?

I guess it's time for him to try Indycars instead. But even there he needs money, drivers like Baguette are now also racing in endurance, because of lack of money for Indycars.
It's really a shame that big companies choose for the wrong drivers. Yes, the good drivers usually don't want to do all the PR-stuff, but still, shouldn't companies associate themselves with greatness instead of mediocrity?

And the pay-driver circle is complete. You can't have greatness in your team unless someone can pay for the bills. No point in having the best driver in the world if you have no team to run. Pay-drivers for all but the best/well-funded teams will always trump 'talent'.

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Jul 2013, 15:36

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
5 Brits (2 who look ready for F1 1 who should drive an F1 car soon 1 who rivals Kobayashi's overtaking and 1 good but not great driver)

Who's who? My GP2 knowledge is a bit rusty.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 25 Jul 2013, 15:51

watka wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
5 Brits (2 who look ready for F1 1 who should drive an F1 car soon 1 who rivals Kobayashi's overtaking and 1 good but not great driver)

Who's who? My GP2 knowledge is a bit rusty.

The 2 who look ready for F1 are Bird and Calado. The Guy who deserves an F1 Test is Lancaster. The Brit who rivals Kobayashi's overtaking is Palmer. And the good but not great Brit is AQH

Post by **Ataxia** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:28

Dillmann on pole. This pleases me.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:30

Ataxia wrote:Dillmann on pole. This pleases me.

Palmer P7. Could've been higher but messed up his fast lap.

Teixiera by the way, is last, 3 seconds off pole and a full second behind the guy in front. Shocking.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:32

AdrianSutil wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Dillmann on pole. This pleases me.

Palmer P7. Could've been higher but messed up his fast lap.

Teixiera by the way, is last, 3 seconds off pole and a full second behind the guy in front. Shocking.

Could have been worse. He was 2 seconds off even Rosenzweig in Practice. At least Rosenzweig can be quick on occasion Teixiera is just a waste of space

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:34

AdrianSutil wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Dillmann on pole. This pleases me.

Palmer P7. Could've been higher but messed up his fast lap.

Teixiera by the way, is last, 3 seconds off pole and a full second behind the guy in front. Shocking.

Expected. He had pretty much booked the back row of the grid last year in a Rapax, a car with which tomorrow's polesitter won a sprint race.. he's the worst driver in GP2 history..

Enter Jason Tahincioglu..

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:48

wsrgo wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Dillmann on pole. This pleases me.

Palmer P7. Could've been higher but messed up his fast lap.

Teixiera by the way, is last, 3 seconds off pole and a full second behind the guy in front. Shocking.

Expected. He had pretty much booked the back row of the grid last year in a Rapax, a car with which tomorrow's polesitter won a sprint race.. he's the worst driver in GP2 history..

Enter Jason Tahincioglu..

Ultimate ROTQ has to be Stefano Coletti: 18th on the grid 1.3 off of pole and he was outqualified by his own Team-Mate Simon Trummer who's average at best. For a Championship Leader that is shocking.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:53

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Ultimate ROTQ has to be Stefano Coletti: 18th on the grid 1.3 off of pole and he was outqualified by his own Team-Mate Simon Trummer who's average at best. For a Championship Leader that is shocking.

Comparable to Button in a few races in 2009 and 2010.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Jul 2013, 17:32

Sam Bird has been given a 3-place grid penalty for blocking and impeding... Sergio Canamasas!

I don't even...

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 17:36

AdrianSutil wrote:Sam Bird has been given a 3-place grid penalty for blocking and impeding... Sergio Canamasas!

I don't even...

Shame that. RUSSIAN TIME look like they are becoming a dominant force. Considering Canamasas qualified only 24th having been 2nd in Practice this could be why he's so far down

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 26 Jul 2013, 18:16

Daniel de Jong in P10? He did well in preseason testing but hasn't managed to even make it into the top 20 all year!
With Berthon showing Trident are not woefully slow it is a shame Ceccon is not there in the lead car, damn Teixeira, though I love his reject spirit.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:45

LOL Teixeira. That is a great example of Reject Gold

Oh MP Motorsport invoke the spirit of Arrows at Australia 2002. De Jong's great Grid Position is wasted

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:45

So Teixiera stalls just 100 years from the grid forcing another formation lap. This leads to BOTH MP Motorsport cars stalling on the grid! What a joke.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:46

AdrianSutil wrote:So Teixiera stalls just 100 years from the grid forcing another formation lap.

I hope this is a typo.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:47

AdrianSutil wrote:So Teixiera stalls just 100 years from the grid forcing another formation lap. This leads to BOTH MP Motorsport cars stalling on the grid! What a joke.

100 years? I think you mean 100 yards mate

Post by **Londoner** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:48

Oh dear me, they're all over the shop, and this is only the first lap!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:54

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:So Teixiera stalls just 100 years from the grid forcing another formation lap. This leads to BOTH MP Motorsport cars stalling on the grid! What a joke.

100 years? I think you mean 100 yards mate

100 years sounds better.

Crazy first lap but good to see Nasr at the front and Palmer in 4th with the prime tyres.

Post by **Londoner** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:57

There was a bug crawling on the camera lens at Turn 14!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:59

East Londoner wrote:There was a bug crawling on the camera lens at Turn 14!

The Argentine races back in the 1990's always had spiders on the lenses :lol:

So many messy pitstops so far. Dillmann, Ericsson and now Rossi.

Post by **Londoner** » 27 Jul 2013, 14:04

Holy moly, what a move by Ericsson.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jul 2013, 14:06

Teixeira is in 6th and Ghirelli is 5th. WHAT!!!

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 27 Jul 2013, 14:12

I might be missing out on a cracker of a race just because Fox Sports and Star Aports opted to show V8 Supercars (rerun) on one channel and on the other channel....the Senior Open.