Grand Prix Rejects

CoopsII wrote:

dr-baker wrote:That was very interesting and well-presented, Simtek. Thank you for all the time and effort that you must have put into that.

Sarcasm?

I don't think so. But only one can say for sure....

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

dr-baker wrote:That was very interesting and well-presented, Simtek. Thank you for all the time and effort that you must have put into that.

Sarcasm?

I don't think so. But only one can say for sure....

No. It was not. Sarcasm was in the eye of the forum reader, not the typer.

Typist.

CoopsII wrote:Typist.

Pedant.

To follow up on yesterday's post on circuits, here now is another list dealing with constructors:

TOP TEN CONSTRUCTORS BY NUMBER OF DRIVER UNREJECTIFICATIONS

1. Ferrari - 32
2. Lotus - 17*
3. Kurtis Kraft - 16
=4. Maserati - 15
=4. Cooper - 15
6. Tyrrell - 14
7. Brabham - 13
=8. Alfa Romeo - 10
=8. Williams - 10**
=10. BRM - 8
=10. March - 8
=10. Sauber - 8***

* Including Lotus F1, just to put them ahead of Kurtis Kraft
** Including Frank Williams Racing Cars
*** Including BMW Sauber

500th post!

2003 Japanese GP: Fernando Alonso (Renault), Jenson Button (BAR) and Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren) shared grid with Jos Verstappen (Minardi)
2015 Australian GP: Fernando Alonso (McLaren), Jenson Button (Mclaren) and Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) will share grid (if nothing came wrong) with Max Verstappen (Toro Rosso)

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:2003 Japanese GP: Fernando Alonso (Renault), Jenson Button (BAR) and Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren) shared grid with Jos Verstappen (Minardi)
2015 Australian GP: Fernando Alonso (McLaren), Jenson Button (Mclaren) and Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) will share grid (if nothing came wrong) with Max Verstappen (Toro Rosso)

Happened before with Ricardo Patrese, Alain Prost, Michele Alboreto, Andrea de Cesaris and Derek Warwick who raced against Mario Andretti in 3 Grands Prix in 1982, and Michael Andretti in 1993.

Had Michael Schumacher not been temporarily retired in 2008 he would have raced against both Nakajimas and both Piquets, but alas he did not.

shinji wrote:

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:2003 Japanese GP: Fernando Alonso (Renault), Jenson Button (BAR) and Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren) shared grid with Jos Verstappen (Minardi)
2015 Australian GP: Fernando Alonso (McLaren), Jenson Button (Mclaren) and Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) will share grid (if nothing came wrong) with Max Verstappen (Toro Rosso)

Happened before with Ricardo Patrese, Alain Prost, Michele Alboreto, Andrea de Cesaris and Derek Warwick who raced against Mario Andretti in 3 Grands Prix in 1982, and Michael Andretti in 1993.

Had Michael Schumacher not been temporarily retired in 2008 he would have raced against both Nakajimas and both Piquets, but alas he did not.

Roy Salvadori, Stirling Moss and Maurice Trintingnant have all also raced against both Reg and Tim Parnell. And Schumi did race against both Sennas, which is kind of close.

Schumacher also crashed with Ayrton and Bruno too.

Nigel Mansell and Mario Andretti have both competed in races against Gilles and Jacques Villeneuve (Formula One against Gilles, the 1994 Indy 500 against Jacques).

Backmarker wrote:Nigel Mansell and Mario Andretti have both competed in races against Gilles and Jacques Villeneuve (Formula One against Gilles, the 1994 Indy 500 against Jacques).

Bobby Unser, Mario Andretti, A. J. Foyt and probably a few others have raced against both Jack and Geoff Brabham in F1 and/or Indycar.

In trying to work out whether anybody raced against both Rosbergs, I wonder if Schumacher, of the Michael variety, raced against Keke in sportscars in the early 1990s?

dr-baker wrote:In trying to work out whether anybody raced against both Rosbergs, I wonder if Schumacher, of the Michael variety, raced against Keke in sportscars in the early 1990s?

I think Michael Schumacher did. Didn't manage to find surely results where both would have scored points though.

However, Giancarlo Fisichella surely did race against both Rosbergs. He spent 1995 season in DTM/ITC against Keke and his F1 career spanned for four seasons with Nico.

dr-baker wrote:In trying to work out whether anybody raced against both Rosbergs, I wonder if Schumacher, of the Michael variety, raced against Keke in sportscars in the early 1990s?

He most certainly did, in the World Sportscar Championship in 1991. He beat him too!

Simtek wrote:

dr-baker wrote:In trying to work out whether anybody raced against both Rosbergs, I wonder if Schumacher, of the Michael variety, raced against Keke in sportscars in the early 1990s?

He most certainly did, in the World Sportscar Championship in 1991. He beat him too!

Sorry, but who beat who? Keke beat Michael? or Michael beat Keke?

Bleu wrote:However, Giancarlo Fisichella surely did race against both Rosbergs. He spent 1995 season in DTM/ITC against Keke and his F1 career spanned for four seasons with Nico.

I was wondering if there may have been a DTM driver around that time who then went into F1 as a youngster. I kinda forgot that Giancarlo had been in DTM!


But I will go out on a limb and say, with no research at all, that nobody raced against both Graham and Damon Hill!

dr-baker wrote:Sorry, but who beat who? Keke beat Michael? or Michael beat Keke?

Michael beat Keke, sorry.

dr-baker wrote:But I will go out on a limb and say, with no research at all, that nobody raced against both Graham and Damon Hill!

Jochen Mass, Hans-Joachim Stuck, Henri Pescarolo, Brian Redman, Vern Schuppan, Derek Bell, David Hobbs, and John Watson all started F1 Grands Prix against Graham Hill, and the 1989 24 Heures Du Mans against Damon Hill.

The amount of drivers who raced against both Mario and Marco Andretti - or AJ Foyt and AJ Foyt IV - is too large to enlist here.

Backmarker wrote:

dr-baker wrote:But I will go out on a limb and say, with no research at all, that nobody raced against both Graham and Damon Hill!

Jochen Mass, Hans-Joachim Stuck, Henri Pescarolo, Brian Redman, Vern Schuppan, Derek Bell, David Hobbs, and John Watson all started F1 Grands Prix against Graham Hill, and the 1989 24 Heures Du Mans against Damon Hill.

Wow, that's pretty cool. And unexpected!

The last time which a team with two former champions won the wdc was in 1989 season (McLaren). Also i'm not sure about this one, but 2015 is going to be the first season with two teams with two former champions (Ferrari and McLaren).

This is off the front page? Well not for long... (WARNING: Contains Indy 500 stats)

Drivers who set a pole position before unrejectifying themselves

Giuseppe Farina - First pole: 1950 British Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1950 British Grand Prix
Juan Manuel Fangio - First pole: 1950 Monaco Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1950 Monaco Grand Prix
Walt Faulkner - First pole: 1950 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Duke Nalon - First pole: 1951 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Fred Agabashian - First pole: 1952 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1953 Indianapolis 500
Bill Vukovich - First pole: 1953 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1953 Indianapolis 500
Jerry Hoyt - First pole: 1955 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Pat Flaherty - First pole: 1956 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1956 Indianapolis 500
Pat O'Connor - First pole: 1957 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Dick Rathmann - First pole: 1958 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Eddie Sachs - First pole: 1960 Indianapolis 500 - Still a reject
Mario Andretti - First pole: 1968 United States Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1970 Spanish Grand Prix
Carlos Reutemann - First pole: 1972 Argentine Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1972 Canadian Grand Prix
Andrea de Cesaris - First pole: 1982 United States Grand Prix West - Unrejectified: 1982 Monaco Grand Prix
Jacques Villeneuve - First pole: 1996 Australian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1996 Australian Grand Prix
Fernando Alonso - First pole: 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix
Nico Hulkenberg - First pole: 2010 Brazilian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2012 European Grand Prix
Pastor Maldonado - First pole: 2012 Spanish Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2012 Spanish Grand Prix

Drivers who set a fastest lap before (or while) unrejectifying themselves

Giuseppe Farina - First FL: 1950 British Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1950 British Grand Prix
Juan Manuel Fangio - First FL: 1950 Monaco Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1950 Monaco Grand Prix
Johnnie Parsons - - First FL: 1950 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1950 Indianapolis 500
Lee Wallard - First FL: 1951 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1951 Indianapolis 500
Bill Vukovich - First FL: 1952 Indianapolis 500 - Unrejectified: 1953 Indianapolis 500
Hans Herrmann - First FL: 1954 French Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1954 Swiss Grand Prix
Phil Hill - First FL: 1958 Italian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1958 Italian Grand Prix
Ludovico Scarfiotti - First FL: 1966 Italian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1966 Italian Grand Prix
Jean-Pierre Beltoise - First FL: 1968 Spanish Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1968 Spanish Grand Prix
Richard Attwood - First FL: 1968 Monaco Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1968 Monaco Grand Prix
James Hunt - First FL: 1973 British Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1973 British Grand Prix
Gilles Villeneuve - First FL: 1978 Argentine Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1978 Belgian Grand Prix
René Arnoux - First FL: 1979 French Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1979 French Grand Prix
Marc Surer - First FL: 1981 Brazilian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1981 Brazilian Grand Prix
Brian Henton - First FL: 1982 British Grand Prix - Still a reject
Derek Warwick - First FL: 1982 Dutch Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1983 Dutch Grand Prix
Ayrton Senna - First FL: 1984 Monaco Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1984 Monaco Grand Prix
Jacques Villeneuve - First FL: 1996 Australian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 1996 Australian Grand Prix
Nico Rosberg - First FL: 2006 Bahrain Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2007 Belgian Grand Prix
Adrian Sutil - First FL: 2009 Italian Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2009 Italian Grand Prix
Vitaly Petrov - First FL: 2010 Turkish Grand Prix - Unrejectified: 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
Bruno Senna - First FL: 2012 Belgian Grand Prix - Still a reject
Esteban Gutiérrez - First FL: 2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Still a reject

So Pastor Maldonado has pushed on his strange streak of never finishing the first two races of the year, which have always been Australia and Malaysia for him. Between 2011-2015 inclusively, he's never finished Monaco either.

Vettel scored Ferrari's first turbo win since the legendary 1988 Italian GP.

Well...

1995 - Sauber adopt a blue livery.

2005 - The last year Sauber use a (mainly) blue livery.

2015 - Sauber adopt a blue livery.

Simtek wrote:1995 - Sauber adopt a blue livery.

2005 - The last year Sauber use a (mainly) blue livery.

2015 - Sauber adopt a blue livery.

Well noticed! So we can expect a new Sauber livery in 2026, I suppose

1995 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

2015 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

WeirdKerr wrote:1995 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

2015 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

Hopefully it doesn't continue like that regarding drivers for the rest of the season. I mean that Alonso won't quit and Button won't suffer life-threatening injuries in the final race weekend.

WeirdKerr wrote:1995 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

2015 McLaren sets out on a new engine deal and has to replace one of the their drivers before the first race

1995 Jan Magnussen drivers one race for McLaren
2015 Kevin Magnussen drives one race for McLaren
2035...?

I've had a look at the results of some of the youngest drivers in the sport's history, and I think I've found another record Verstappen can lay claim to (yet to be verified): The first driver to finish in the same position as his age, as he was classified 17th in China.

EDIT: Just found out Ricciardo was 22nd in Suzuka 2011. Oh, well.

Jocke1 wrote:http://hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com/

I found that after someone on F1 Fanatic (what a surprise) linked it in an article on his crash in testing. Their given reason for that crash: Maldonaderp (even though it wasn't his fault).

So first three races have had the same three drivers on the podium.

Seeing as I'm lazy, does anyone know what the record stretch of consecutive races with the same three drivers on the podium is?

AustralianStig wrote:So first three races have had the same three drivers on the podium.

Seeing as I'm lazy, does anyone know what the record stretch of consecutive races with the same three drivers on the podium is?

It happened twice a whole load of times.

Three times:
France - Germany 2000 (Häkkinen, Coulthard, Barrichello)
Malaysia 2000 - Malaysia 2001 (M. Schumacher, Coulthard, Barrichello)

Those are the only other two times, and they happened within the span of one season

tommykl wrote:

AustralianStig wrote:So first three races have had the same three drivers on the podium.

Seeing as I'm lazy, does anyone know what the record stretch of consecutive races with the same three drivers on the podium is?

It happened twice a whole load of times.

Three times:
France - Germany 2000 (Häkkinen, Coulthard, Barrichello)
Malaysia 2000 - Malaysia 2001 (M. Schumacher, Coulthard, Barrichello)

Those are the only other two times, and they happened within the span of one season

The most shocking thing is Michael DNFed in all three races between France and Germany that season - otherwise it would have been really hard to keep him out of the podium for three races in a row!

By the way I guess that, if there won't be any reliability issues, this record will be broken on Sunday.

novitopoli wrote:

tommykl wrote:

AustralianStig wrote:So first three races have had the same three drivers on the podium.

Seeing as I'm lazy, does anyone know what the record stretch of consecutive races with the same three drivers on the podium is?

It happened twice a whole load of times.

Three times:
France - Germany 2000 (Häkkinen, Coulthard, Barrichello)
Malaysia 2000 - Malaysia 2001 (M. Schumacher, Coulthard, Barrichello)

Those are the only other two times, and they happened within the span of one season

The most shocking thing is Michael DNFed in all three races between France and Germany that season - otherwise it would have been really hard to keep him out of the podium for three races in a row!

By the way I guess that, if there won't be any reliability issues, this record will be broken on Sunday.

Yet another woefully wrong prediction...

novitopoli wrote:Yet another woefully wrong prediction...

I think we've found a spiritual successor to Enoch's curse!

Thinking about Vettel this season, was interested to see how exclusive the club of drivers who have won races for at least 3 different teams is:

(Most races won overall first)
Alain Prost - Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams
Sebastian Vettel - Toro Rosso, Red Bull, Ferrari
Fernando Alonso - Renault, McLaren, Ferrari
Jackie Stewart (arguably) - BRM, Matra, Tyrrell
Niki Lauda - Ferrari, Brabham, McLaren
Juan Manuel Fangio - Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Mercedes, Ferrari
Nelson Piquet Sr - Brabham, Williams, Benetton
Kimi Raikkonen - McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus
Stirling Moss - Mercedes, Maserati, Vanwall, Cooper, Lotus (5!!)
Jenson Button (arguably) - Honda, Brawn, McLaren
Carlos Reutemann - Brabham, Ferrari, Williams
Jody Scheckter - Tyrrell, Wolf, Ferrari
Gerhard Berger - Benetton, Ferrari, McLaren
John Surtees - Ferrari, Cooper, Honda
Dan Gurney - Porsche, Brabham, Eagle


Ayrton Senna only ever won races for Lotus and McLaren, but could have matched Prost had he won for Toleman is that epic Monaco GP and would have almost certainly won for Williams if not for his fatal accident.
Damon Hill came mighty close when he came 2nd for Arrows at Hungary.

watka wrote:Thinking about Vettel this season, was interested to see how exclusive the club of drivers who have won races for at least 3 different teams is:

(Most races won overall first)
Alain Prost - Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams
Sebastian Vettel - Toro Rosso, Red Bull, Ferrari
Fernando Alonso - Renault, McLaren, Ferrari
Jackie Stewart (arguably) - BRM, Matra, Tyrrell
Niki Lauda - Ferrari, Brabham, McLaren
Juan Manuel Fangio - Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Mercedes, Ferrari
Nelson Piquet Sr - Brabham, Williams, Benetton
Kimi Raikkonen - McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus
Stirling Moss - Mercedes, Maserati, Vanwall, Cooper, Lotus (5!!)
Jenson Button (arguably) - Honda, Brawn, McLaren
Carlos Reutemann - Brabham, Ferrari, Williams
Jody Scheckter - Tyrrell, Wolf, Ferrari
Gerhard Berger - Benetton, Ferrari, McLaren
John Surtees - Ferrari, Cooper, Honda
Dan Gurney - Porsche, Brabham, Eagle


Ayrton Senna only ever won races for Lotus and McLaren, but could have matched Prost had he won for Toleman is that epic Monaco GP and would have almost certainly won for Williams if not for his fatal accident.
Damon Hill came mighty close when he came 2nd for Arrows at Hungary.

Stewart also won races in a March. Maybe your argument is 'it was run by Tyrrell', but in my opinion, it counts.

So Danny Ricc is on for his fourth engine next race.

Is it too early to make a prediction for the most grid spots lost across a season for one driver?

AustralianStig wrote:So first three races have had the same three drivers on the podium.

Seeing as I'm lazy, does anyone know what the record stretch of consecutive races with the same three drivers on the podium is?

At least, the pattern "Two Mercedes, One Ferrari" remains in the podium in this season.