Grand Prix Rejects

WIDD wrote:Would be something quite fitting if Schumi ended his career as a pay driver...just like he started!

And at Sauber to boot. The same guys that gave him his big break in racing with their Endurance Racing dream team of himself, Wendlinger and Frentzen. Ironically enough at the time, he was considered to be have the least potential of the trio even if all three were considered hugely talented.

good move for perez saying that would laught my tits off if schumacher stayed at mercedes for 1 more year but unlikely so sauber or williams it is

James1978 wrote:Would love to see a Schumacher-Kobayashi combo at Sauber but probably won't happen as they need some backing with Perez going.

It seems that there'll be a Gutiérrez (to keep the Telmex money) and Alguersuari (to get his sponsorship) line-up at Sauber next year. Gutiérrez isn't as ready as he could be, it was all he could do not to be outclassed by Calado this year, but Alguersuari is a good driver - just a shame that Kobayashi had to get shafted so that he could return.

It would depend on how much backing Sauber need. I'm sure that Schumi is well aware that he'd be driving for expenses only, if that. If they did an agreement with Carlos Slim to sign Guiterrez for 2014 he might keep the deal with them

I doubt that Schumi might go to Sauber. Supposedly, they have already signed Alguesuari. On the other hand, Alguesuari has claimed that he signed with a team that ranks between positions 5 and 7. It could also be Force India, who are going to replace either di Resta or Hülkenberg, who went to Ferrari to replace Massa. Then, Sauber would have a free seat. Schumacher might do one last year for Sauber, in order to do a favor to Peter Sauber. Or Sauber's gonna sign Massa, who might need a new enviroment. He's shown some flashes of his skills in this year, and maybe he needs a team that can "wake him up".
Or Schumacher returns to Ferrari, in order to keep Vettel's seat warm. I don't see any problems with Alonso, given that Schumacher was clearly and cleanly beaten by Rosberg. But it will be interesting to see "Michael let Fernando pass for the championship."

Despite what a lot of people on here are saying, I don't think Schumi should go just yet. Yes he's had howlers like Singapore but other times this year he's looked like his old self and I think bad luck aside, he's done better than Rosberg. I don't think he wants to go yet either.

Now that McLaren have two drivers who are well known to be able to save their tyres whilst still maintaining a competitive pace, the team looks like a big favorite next year as they can sacrifice some tyre durability in exchange for more speed.

Really please Perez has signed with McLaren rather than Ferrari - now he might be allowed to actually win races. Ferrari need someone who isn't necessarily potential WDC material... and Algersuario or a Kobayashi. Or Christian Klein, goshdarnit.

Wizzie wrote:

WIDD wrote:Would be something quite fitting if Schumi ended his career as a pay driver...just like he started!

And at Sauber to boot. The same guys that gave him his big break in racing with their Endurance Racing dream team of himself, Wendlinger and Frentzen. Ironically enough at the time, he was considered to be have the least potential of the trio even if all three were considered hugely talented.

Wasn't he meant to be committed to Sauber for their F1 debut as well but Peter Sauber let him out of the contract so he could join Benetton?

I'm hopeful Schumi stays, I think there's still more to come. Plus, getting booted out of Merc for the Spoilt Brat might give him extra incentive to prove them wrong.

One last year of F1 for Schumi with Ferrari, anyone?

So Lewis leaves a team with 180 wins, for a team with 1 win.

He must know something we don't. The future will tell if this is a genius decision or a catastrophic failure.
Like someone mentioned earlier, don't forget what happened to Ralf Schumacher in Toyota and Jacques Villeneuve in B.A.R

Jocke1 wrote:So Lewis leaves a team with 180 wins, for a team with 1 win. He must know something we don't.

Indeed, he knows exactly what his salary is and we don't.

Hamilton is an absolute disgrace. He does not deserve to be an F1 driver. He is a total sell out, moving to Mercedes for nothing but money. Without McLaren he wouldn't have made it to F1, they've mostly delivered him competitive cars over the years and he's leaving it all behind for what, a bigger paycheck? Just for that, I actually hope he fails. I'm very happy about this move, because it gives a genuine racer like Perez a chance to shine.

Fame has got to Lewis' head. And it shall be his demise.

Fan-bathplugging-tastic! I bet there must be a deafening silence in the board room in Marenello...

kostas22 wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:So Lewis leaves a team with 180 wins, for a team with 1 win. He must know something we don't.

Just for that, I actually hope he fails.
Fame has got to Lewis' head. And it shall be his demise.

I agree.

But on the bright side, Ross will now get to meet many hip hop artists in the garage during race weekends.

I don't think Lewis did it just for the money, maybe he is counting on Mercedes being the best in 2014 when the new regs are up. After all they are an engine manufacturer and engines will supposedly play a bigger deal after 2014.

I quite like these moves because A) it gives us a new scenery at the front of the grid and B) A young driver who pushes himself in lesser machinery finally gets his chance. This move from Hamilton looks to have been made not for money itself but for more freedom. Freedom to be sponsored (a Hamilton name is big and he can get as much from sponsors as he can get from Mercedes or McLaren in a year) and specially, he gets to keep his bling won at races! In my mind, this is the only reason he moved teams. Yes, I think Hamilton is a kid inside. If this turns out to be a Jacques Villeneuve-esque move only time will tell. For now, it has all the ingredients: A one time WDC quitting a serial-championship contender for, well, what it is the remains of BAR team. To be fair this team was, a long time ago, at the top (and I don't mean 2009). But let's not forget what happened with the team Villeneuve left. At the time, it was also about to lose the engine factory back-up. In the end I only hope that McLaren stays what it is, a winning team. As for Hamilton, I am certain he will win races for Mercedes.

I don't think it's all about money, I think a lot of it comes down to a break-down of relations between Hamilton and McLaren. And it's been like that for at least two years.

Last year it was Hamilton screwing up his own chances at the title, and now this year it's the team itself with crappy pitwork and unreliable hardware that's wrecked everything. On top of that there's the hard to believe stunt of Hamilton releasing telemetry over Twitter plus the increasingly awkward behaviour in front of the media.

I'm sure money was a large part of the equation but Hamilton and McLaren have been sailing different ships for quite a while, now.

Next year will be make or break for Perez. That'll teach Ferrari for stalling over him. As for Hamilton, I don't think it's money-based, more 'clean start'.

Jenson Button Twitter: @JensonButton: Welcome @SChecoPerez

And JB put the wink in, not me. I reckon these two will get on really well. It'll be a nice, relaxed atmosphere.

AdrianSutil wrote:

Jenson Button Twitter: @JensonButton: Welcome @SChecoPerez

And JB put the wink in, not me. I reckon these two will get on really well. It'll be a nice, relaxed atmosphere.

Then again, JB has been far more relaxed since he won that title so I guess unless his teammate was somebody like Pastor Maldonado, there'd always be a nice, relaxed atmosphere in the team.

East Londoner wrote:Fan-bathplugging-tastic! I bet there must be a deafening silence in the board room in Marenello...

There will be a bigger silence next season when Perez beats Alonso to a win, with Massa trailing in in tenth place.

This is a good set of changes which sets up some real interest in next year. How will Perez perform? Will Mercedes finally make progress? Will Schumacher transform HRT?

And thinking back a few years to what we all said when Button went to McClaren. Well it looks like Jenson has won that battle, and now has his feet bfirmly under the table as McClaren's no 1.

WIDD wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

WIDD wrote:Would be something quite fitting if Schumi ended his career as a pay driver...just like he started!

And at Sauber to boot. The same guys that gave him his big break in racing with their Endurance Racing dream team of himself, Wendlinger and Frentzen. Ironically enough at the time, he was considered to be have the least potential of the trio even if all three were considered hugely talented.

Wasn't he meant to be committed to Sauber for their F1 debut as well but Peter Sauber let him out of the contract so he could join Benetton?

I'm hopeful Schumi stays, I think there's still more to come. Plus, getting booted out of Merc for the Spoilt Brat might give him extra incentive to prove them wrong.

The indication is that Mercedes tried to direct Schumacher towards Sauber given that it was their customer team at the time, but in the end they chose not to force the issue.

Mister Fungus wrote:I don't think Lewis did it just for the money, maybe he is counting on Mercedes being the best in 2014 when the new regs are up. After all they are an engine manufacturer and engines will supposedly play a bigger deal after 2014.

Given that Autosport reported a little while ago that McLaren were upping their offer to match Mercedes's offer, that alone shouldn't have been the primary driver.

Whilst the exact reasons for Hamilton's decision may not be entirely clear, the fact that the importance of the manufacturers is being emphasised in the post 2014 regulations might have weighed on his mind. McLaren are no longer going to be a works team for Mercedes from next year onwards and will have to start paying for their engines, something that may have a more noticeable impact in 2014 when the engine contracts are likely to sharply increase in cost. Marin Brundle also indicated a while ago that might also have an impact on support for developing energy recovery systems (the one area Mercedes seems to be strongest in) - and doubling the capacity of the energy recovery systems is likely to boost their importance as a performance differentiator.
McLaren's budget would probably have come under pressure from another side too - there have been suggestions that Vodafone won't renew their contract with the team when it runs out soon, which would have been a fairly sizeable financial hit for the team. Perez's talent is an obvious attraction, but perhaps the potential for a deal with Telmex to offset the loss of Vodafone also featured in McLaren's mind?

Similarly, it may simply be that Hamilton's relations with McLaren have come to something of an end anyway - there have been a fair number of personnel changes since Hamilton joined McLaren, most notably the departure of Ron Dennis (there have also been a few other high profile defections, like Pat Fry), and his relations with Whitmarsh's current management team don't seem to have been as strong as they were with Ron Dennis's team.
As Ubik says, the two sides seem to have been drifting apart for some time - there were reports that some within McLaren were getting very frustrated with Hamilton in 2011 (the repeated clashes on track with Massa, his erratic comments to the press and so forth), whilst some of the operational errors McLaren have made this season must have tried Hamilton's patience (the underfuelled car in Spain, multiple botched pit stops in the opening races and mismanaging their strategies in wet weather). Even the best of relationships would become a little strained under those circumstances.

There is one other aspect that DanielPT picks up on, and that is sponsorship. The deal with Mercedes might give him greater licence to promote himself, but there have been occasional reports that both Hamilton and Button were sometimes complaining that their sponsorship commitments for McLaren were disrupting their personal lives and training regimes. That might have also fed into some of Hamilton's dissatisfaction with the team, so it is possible that he might have seen a move to Mercedes as an opportunity to step back a little from that front too.

I think Trulligate (Liegate? What do we call it?) was the beginning of the end, personally. A mishandled situation which resulted in the reigning WDC being caught lying and a long-standing team member getting sacked and banished from F1. It's been a slow decline, but I think there's been a certain tension in the team ever since then. Certainly for me Hamilton went from being someone I supported to someone I was actively against, so who knows how it affected hard-working team members?

Schumi's exit statement (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102897) from Mercedes sounds pretty final. I don't think there's a management role there if he is retiring. It sounds more like someone who is still looking for a drive.

Come on Monisha and Peter, make it happen!

This is great knows for Our Lord Kobayashi if it gets confirmed. Sauber will need someone experienced alongside Gutiérrez.

That said, this looks disastruous for Hamilton's career.

BTW some people are already saying that Perez move to McLaren shows that Ferrari have something in place for the future (ie. Vettel) and that's why they left him go. I'm still struggling to believe it, but it makes sense, and I'd have sweared that Hamilton wouldn't join Mercedes, so...

Ferrim wrote:This is great knows for Our Lord Kobayashi if it gets confirmed. Sauber will need someone experienced alongside Gutiérrez.

That said, this looks disastruous for Hamilton's career.

BTW some people are already saying that Perez move to McLaren shows that Ferrari have something in place for the future (ie. Vettel) and that's why they left him go. I'm still struggling to believe it, but it makes sense, and I'd have sweared that Hamilton wouldn't join Mercedes, so...

If this is disastrous for Hamilton, then what hope does poor Nico Rosberg have?

http://m.espn.go.com/rpm/story?storyId=8434700

Whoa this made the front page of ESPN. Not ESPNF1, the proper site. Must be big news. As a hammy hater, I love this move as he won't win bubkiss til 2014 at least. Although he if pulls a Schumi and build Merc around him look out. Although I doubt he has the attention span.

I really hope schumi goes back to where it all began. Gonna go buy the C9 in Forza and get nostalgic......

Wizzie wrote:

Ferrim wrote:This is great knows for Our Lord Kobayashi if it gets confirmed. Sauber will need someone experienced alongside Gutiérrez.

That said, this looks disastruous for Hamilton's career.

BTW some people are already saying that Perez move to McLaren shows that Ferrari have something in place for the future (ie. Vettel) and that's why they left him go. I'm still struggling to believe it, but it makes sense, and I'd have sweared that Hamilton wouldn't join Mercedes, so...

If this is disastrous for Hamilton, then what hope does poor Nico Rosberg have?

I don't think it is disastrous - Schumi may have been a big name, but was past his best and no longer had the hunger of a young buck. I think Ham can push it to greater heights and probably a more go-getting attitude these days,

Holy crap, I did not expect that coming!

To be honest I didn't believe it would actually happen until this morning

Wizzie wrote:

Ferrim wrote:This is great knows for Our Lord Kobayashi if it gets confirmed. Sauber will need someone experienced alongside Gutiérrez.

That said, this looks disastruous for Hamilton's career.

BTW some people are already saying that Perez move to McLaren shows that Ferrari have something in place for the future (ie. Vettel) and that's why they left him go. I'm still struggling to believe it, but it makes sense, and I'd have sweared that Hamilton wouldn't join Mercedes, so...

If this is disastrous for Hamilton, then what hope does poor Nico Rosberg have?

But Nico's career was already f***ed up, this is no change.

Ferrim wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

Ferrim wrote:This is great knows for Our Lord Kobayashi if it gets confirmed. Sauber will need someone experienced alongside Gutiérrez.

That said, this looks disastruous for Hamilton's career.

BTW some people are already saying that Perez move to McLaren shows that Ferrari have something in place for the future (ie. Vettel) and that's why they left him go. I'm still struggling to believe it, but it makes sense, and I'd have sweared that Hamilton wouldn't join Mercedes, so...

If this is disastrous for Hamilton, then what hope does poor Nico Rosberg have?

But Nico's career was already f***ed up, this is no change.

I guess you're right. He was always in a lose-lose situation the minute Mercedes signed Schumacher back in 2010 and if Hamilton thrashes him next year, any credibility he had as a top-line driver would be in tatters. Then again, Hamilton's signing is already a massive vote of no-confidence by Mercedes to Nico as it is.

All I say to those who think Hamilton's career is over now that he's decided to leave McLaren and join Mercedes is, I'm extremely skeptical. Sure Mercedes haven't been the top-line team it should have been since it returned to the sport in 2010, but I always felt they lacked a proper top driver to spearhead their efforts. Michael Schumacher is past his best, evidently, and Nico Rosberg is no longer the next big thing. Someone like Lewis Hamilton could rejuvenate Mercedes' enthusiasm.

Furthermore, as much as I think Hamilton can be prone to doing stupid things, I'm positively sure he didn't just consider money before joining Mercedes. After reading mario's post, his move seems pretty logical to me.

It can go either way, and that means he might be very successful at Mercedes.

eurobrun wrote:To be honest I didn't believe it would actually happen until this morning

This. It gives us some driver movement though, which we wouldn't have had otherwise.

GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED!
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

razta wrote:GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED!
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Look on the bright side; at least now you have a driver that is unquestionably capable of fighting for World Championships.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

razta wrote:GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED! GUTTED!
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Look on the bright side; at least now you have a driver that is unquestionably capable of fighting for World Championships.

The other aspect is that, according to Autosport, Schumacher might be in part responsible for his own exit from Mercedes - they are running an article that suggests that Mercedes originally wanted to sign a contract extension with Schumacher, with the contract signed by the end of the summer break. However, it appears that Schumacher still hadn't come to a decision after the summer break and Mercedes, fearing that they'd be left with no options if Schumacher did make a late decision to retire, bit the bullet and poured their efforts into signing Hamilton instead. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102906

S951 wrote:good move for perez saying that would laught my tits off if schumacher stayed at mercedes for 1 more year but unlikely so sauber or williams it is

Schumacher moving to Williams is about the one thing he could do to make me even remotely like him. And it would help if he could make a success out of that move. But people to seem to associate him more with Sauber at the moment, but only because of who he drove for 21+ years ago (before a majority of current university students were born!).

kostas22 wrote:One last year of F1 for Schumi with Ferrari, anyone?

That's not completely insane, Schumacher would probably be at least 20 points ahead of Massa if his (slower) car had been reliable this year. Ferrari have obviously missed Perez and Massa is quite clearly on borrowed time. If it's a case of Massa or Schumacher for them (ie. they don't rate or can't bring in a younger driver like Di Resta) for 2013, with them supposedly interested in Kubica (if he's fit) or Vettel for the near future, then I'd take Schumacher if I were them.

I'd would imagine Fernando Alonso would be the biggest obstacle, though. He'd hardly want the former team spearhead there when he's #1 driver.


Nice to see Perez get a good move. Didn't see it coming at all. But if McLaren can build him a good car, I might have to stop disliking them, though.

Enforcer wrote:

kostas22 wrote:One last year of F1 for Schumi with Ferrari, anyone?

That's not completely insane, Schumacher would probably be at least 20 points ahead of Massa if his (slower) car had been reliable this year. Ferrari have obviously missed Perez and Massa is quite clearly on borrowed time. If it's a case of Massa or Schumacher for them (ie. they don't rate or can't bring in a younger driver like Di Resta) for 2013, with them supposedly interested in Kubica (if he's fit) or Vettel for the near future, then I'd take Schumacher if I were them.

I'd would imagine Fernando Alonso would be the biggest obstacle, though. He'd hardly want the former team spearhead there when he's #1 driver.


Nice to see Perez get a good move. Didn't see it coming at all. But if McLaren can build him a good car, I might have to stop disliking them, though.

I reckon, as amazing as this sounds, Schumacher would be fine helping, or assisting, Alonso next year. Ferrari are built around Alonso completely and I reckon Schumacher would just like the opportunity to finally end his career with Ferrari. It would be fitting and I think he'd jump at the chance to do so.