Unpopular F1 opinions

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Dec 2011, 11:57

Vettel is the new Schumacher.

In the sense that while all his competitors are flailing about like drunk monkeys he does just enough to take the wins.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 15 Dec 2011, 12:01

CoopsII wrote:Vettel is the new Schumacher.

In the sense that while all his competitors are flailing about like drunk monkeys he does just enough to take the wins.

Kind've made my mind up Vettel is the new Schumacher just after Monza 2008. Give it 5 years, and he will pass Schumacher's pole, Fastest laps and race win records.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Dec 2011, 12:42

AdrianSutil wrote:Kind've made my mind up Vettel is the new Schumacher just after Monza 2008. Give it 5 years, and he will pass Schumacher's pole, Fastest laps and race win records.

The only difference is that Vettel doesnt care about who his team-mate is.

Yet.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 15 Dec 2011, 13:59

CoopsII wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Kind've made my mind up Vettel is the new Schumacher just after Monza 2008. Give it 5 years, and he will pass Schumacher's pole, Fastest laps and race win records.

The only difference is that Vettel doesnt care about who his team-mate is.

Yet.

I still believe the only reason that Mark Webber is still with Red Bull is because he makes a good slave for Vettel. Oh, that is another one of my unpopular opinions.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 15 Dec 2011, 14:56

Wizzie wrote:Maybe we can keep the current system for 11th-24th but instead of having a free-for-all Q3, we could have a top 10 shootout and anyone who doesn't run without a valid reason (i.e. mechanical failure or crash damage from previous session while still making it into Q3) will get a 5 place grid penalty. Alternatively, as added incentive, they get a brand new set of the softer compound that Pirelli have brought which they have to give back after their lap.

Giving the teams a set of tires that can only be used in Q3 would see all cars in the top 10 shootout take a crack at it more often than not. There'd be an occassion or two where someone would want to save their car and not run, but we wouldn't have a third of a season of top 6 or top 7 shootouts that we've had this year.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Dec 2011, 16:54

Martin Brundle isnt a clever as he thinks he is.

Although being a pootling mid-fielder does give you plenty of anecdotes.

Not many about actually winning, though.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 15 Dec 2011, 18:25

redbulljack14 wrote:
Q2 is the best session, especially if a big scalp drops out there. Button has done so a few times, Massa could drop out, maybe Rosberg on a bad day. You don't know who's going through, apart from the top frontrunners.

Not good enough for me. I want to see Sebastian Vettel messing up and someone like Nico Rosberg on an inspired day taking advantage of that.

Post by **mario** » 18 Dec 2011, 16:43

CoopsII wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Kind've made my mind up Vettel is the new Schumacher just after Monza 2008. Give it 5 years, and he will pass Schumacher's pole, Fastest laps and race win records.

The only difference is that Vettel doesnt care about who his team-mate is.

Yet.

Some might cynically suggest that the team takes care of that side for him so it doesn't leave any mark against him...

As for the suggestion that Vettel will pass those records, we will see. Actually, if you consider a few of Schumacher's statistics, they are good but not exceptional (though a few of them, such as the number of pole positions, aren't going to improve whilst the car is off the pace) - his rate of poles to entries is actually lower than you'd expect, whilst a few records (such as most consecutive poles) are held by other drivers, like Senna, or Ascari for the most consecutive wins (7).

Then, there is also the assumption that Red Bull will always remain there or thereabouts for long enough for Vettel to break those records, which is by no means guaranteed. After all, the changes in engine format and aerodynamics rules over the coming few years could be enough to put Red Bull on the back foot (for example, their KERS is a weak spot at the moment and the increasing importance of KERS in the future might be a little problematic for them).

Moreover, whilst Newey has been praised for the recent cars, it has to be said that those accolades undersell the work of Prodromou, who is the Chief Aerodynamicist at Red Bull and said by some to have been the man who actually figured out how to make a blown diffuser work. If Red Bull's technical team were partially broken up - and Ferrari are known to be courting Prodromou - that could also have an impact on the team, such that they may no longer have quite the edge they once had.
Ferrari are unlikely to remain quite as submissive as they have been in the past - especially with their technical reshuffle and Fry organising things - and Alonso isn't a double world champion for nothing. Meanwhile, McLaren have shown a fair amount of innovation recently and the capability to match Red Bull for development during the season, whilst Button has been going from strength to strength and Hamilton has not only acknowledged his mistakes but seems to be finally beginning to learn from them. All in all, there is enough depth of talent in the field, with at least three others drivers outside of Red Bull capable of competing with Vettel on an equal footing, for things to be by no means a cakewalk for Vettel, particularly if Ferrari succeed in their efforts to increase the importance of the engines and decrease the impact of aerodynamics, which is Red Bull's key strength at the moment.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Dec 2011, 17:28

Despite all the entries in the record books, neither Schumacher nor Vettel will ever have the star quality of Ayrton Senna.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 18 Dec 2011, 17:37

CoopsII wrote:Despite all the entries in the record books, neither Schumacher nor Vettel will ever have the star quality of Ayrton Senna.

Or Jim Clark.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 18 Dec 2011, 18:49

AdrianSutil wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Despite all the entries in the record books, neither Schumacher nor Vettel will ever have the star quality of Ayrton Senna.

Or Jim Clark.

THIS.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 18 Dec 2011, 20:19

CoopsII wrote:Despite all the entries in the record books, neither Schumacher nor Vettel will ever have the star quality of Ayrton Senna.

Indeed. Certainly don't see any critically-acclaimed and highly successful documentaries about either of them hitting the screens.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Dec 2011, 22:58

However, that will change if any of those die on the racetrack in 2012.

And, if F1 get one more fatality, Bernie, GPDA, FIA and FOTA will panick so much that they ruin the sport forever.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 20 Dec 2011, 00:18

Gianmaria Bruni is a better driver than Zsolt Baumgartner.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 20 Dec 2011, 00:54

kostas22 wrote:Zsolt Baumgartner.

Forget papayas (drops atom bomb on kostas22's house)

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 20 Dec 2011, 01:59

kostas22 wrote:Gianmaria Bruni is a better driver than Zsolt Baumgartner.

Sadly, there's an element of truth in that. Had Bruni not retired a still-working car, he wouldve scored the point HWNSNBM scored at Indy.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 20 Dec 2011, 02:22

AdrianSutil wrote:Had Bruni not retired a still-working car

Well he didn't, so shut up!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 20 Dec 2011, 03:58

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Had Bruni not retired a still-working car

Well he didn't, so shut up!

It's true thou. Same as people thinking Badoer wouldve scored points at Monaco 96. He was already so far behind he wouldn't be classified in the top 6. Sorry to be the party pooper :lol:

Post by **Londoner** » 20 Dec 2011, 11:48

AdrianSutil wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Had Bruni not retired a still-working car

Well he didn't, so shut up!

It's true thou. Same as people thinking Badoer wouldve scored points at Monaco 96. He was already so far behind he wouldn't be classified in the top 6. Sorry to be the party pooper

I remind you to what Klon once posted.

Klon wrote:Yes, he could have. Shut up, if we continue to tell us it is so, it will become true!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 20 Dec 2011, 16:41

Forgive them HWNSNBM for they've sinned. Purge them from all the Bruni's work. We shall not deviate again from HWNSNBM's path.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 20 Dec 2011, 17:44

Klon wrote:Yes, he could have. Shut up, if we continue to tell us it is so, it will become true!

Terry Pratchett called. He wants royalties.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 26 Dec 2011, 20:34

Alguersuari and Buemi deserved the sack. Zero future in F1.

Vitaly Ptrov's manager is strangely hot.

Post by **Londoner** » 26 Dec 2011, 22:26

TheBigJ wrote:Alguersuari and Buemi deserved the sack. Zero future in F1.

Vitaly Ptrov's manager is strangely hot.

I would agree with Buemi's sacking, seeing as he had three years to prove himself, and didn't make the most of it (how much of that was down to bad luck, I don't know). But the Alguersaurus, Monaco aside, has really come of age this year, and as far as I'm concerned, merited his seat with his drives in the latter part of the year. Which makes his firing a travesty. Now that Colin Kolles has gone home, shall we now start a GO HOME RED BULL campaign?

As for the second opinion, I fear that F1 Deprivation has claimed another victim

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 26 Dec 2011, 22:43

East Londoner wrote:As for the second opinion, I fear that F1 Deprivation has claimed another victim

Judging from a quick Google search, I'd be very much inclined to agree with you! :lol:

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 02 Jan 2012, 17:35

AndreaModa wrote:
East Londoner wrote:As for the second opinion, I fear that F1 Deprivation has claimed another victim

Judging from a quick Google search, I'd be very much inclined to agree with you!

It might be that, yes.

A few more :

I find Raikonnen a complete waste of talent and would rather see Bruno Senna in the car.

I predict an almighty capitulation of Lotus Renault this season, with Raikonnen quitting early on and Grosjean failing to impress.

Hispania are excellent for the sport.

Kovalienan is overrated and overpaid.

I find Karun Chandhok extremely annoying, obnoxious and he's on daddy's money for a career.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Jan 2012, 22:29

TheBigJ wrote:Kovalienan is overrated and overpaid.

Please explain.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 03 Jan 2012, 09:41

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:Kovalienan is overrated and overpaid.

Please explain.

He's beaten Trulli, who isn't really any good and has bad power steering. That is the only real benchmark we can give him. The times he has beaten the midfield it was because of reliability and the others making silly mistakes of awful pit stops.

At Renault, he wasn't exactly sparkling. At McLaren, one race win in two years is just shocking, even for a number two. He inherited that win too.

I don't think he's any good...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Jan 2012, 11:26

TheBigJ wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:Kovalienan is overrated and overpaid.

Please explain.

At Renault, he wasn't exactly sparkling. At McLaren, one race win in two years is just shocking, even for a number two. He inherited that win too.

I actually think that he was quite good at Renault. He effectively ended Fisichella's career at Renault by beating him soundly. And that was the time we could say Fisichella was a decent benchmark. Yes, he performed poorly in an Hamilton driven team. And many did not expected such difference between the two, but let's be serious, it took Hamilton's implosion and Button's best year yet for him to get beaten by a team-mate. And let's not forget that Hamilton made Sutil look a bit hopeless in F3. No Kovalainen is not a world beater, but I would say he is quite good nonetheless!

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:00

Gonna list everything I can think of.

(from most to least)
Overrated: Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Kamui Kobayashi, Jim Clark, Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber, Paul di Resta, Jean-Eric Vergne, Nico Hülkenberg, Robert Kubica, Bruno Senna, Timo Glock, Kimi Räikkönen, Ayrton Senna, Rubens Barrichello, Lewis Hamilton, Stefan Bellof, Eddie Irvine, Daniel Ricciardo
Underrated: Adrian Sutil, Juan Pablo Montoya, Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Sebastian Vettel, Jean Alesi, David Coulthard

Other stuff:

Vettel has the potential to surpass Schumacher, and is, although by a rather small margin, currently the best driver on the grid.
Vettel deserved to win in 2010.
(the above two facts are mainly unpopular because of the British fans)

Webber is barely on par with Massa, and if he doesn't adapt soon he will be destroyed.
Despite having many of the qualities that a "good guy" generally has, Webber is a hypocrite, and a massive one at that. The Pizzonia incident in December 2004 proves that. He's also a bit of a douche. I still like him, but not nearly as much as everyone else does.
Webber deserved to lose the championship in 2010.

Hamilton deserved to win in 2008 just as much as Massa.
Hamilton is extremely likable, even for a non-fan like me.
Hamilton is slightly overrated, as, despite employing a Senna-esque style of driving, he doesn't seem to have the potential and the talent that the Brazilian had.

Button...there's really not much that I can say about him, since I pretty much agree with the majority on just about every point.
...except maybe one. He's still a teensy weensy bit overrated (not enough to put him on the list), as 2011 really helped his driving style. The same (although to a far greater extent) can also be said of di Resta, which is probably the reason why the latter matched Sutil for most of the season, too.
(Speaking of his driving style, the fact that I utterly despise how much it is promoted at the moment (thanks to the regulations and whatnot) can probably also be considered an unpopular opinion.)

Alonso is more talented than Hamilton.
Alonso did the right thing in 2007 when he (pretty much) destroyed McLaren.

Massa still has the potential to prove himself in 2012.
He also seems more likable than many other drivers on the grid. I'd put him on par with Hamilton and Vettel in that regard.

Schumacher has surpassed Senna, and is the greatest driver of all time.

Prost was slightly better than Senna.

James Hunt was a...you-know-what. Something that rhymes with his surname.

Schumacher was right when he said that Häkkinen was his greatest rival.

McLaren deserved to get screwed over in 2007, and I don't blame either of the drivers for it, either.

EDIT: Indy 500. MASSIVELY overrated.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:12

Pamphlet wrote:Gonna list everything I can think of.

Overrated: Kamui Kobayashi

Get out. Now.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:12

Pamphlet wrote:Gonna list everything I can think of.

(from most to least)
Overrated: Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Kamui Kobayashi, Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber, Paul di Resta, Jean-Eric Vergne, Nico Hülkenberg, Robert Kubica, Bruno Senna, Timo Glock, Kimi Räikkönen, Ayrton Senna, Rubens Barrichello, Lewis Hamilton, Stefan Bellof, Eddie Irvine, Daniel Ricciardo

What you've just done my friend is in less than 3 hours make yourself public enemy number 1 on the forum :lol:

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:21

Those are the first real unpopular opinions I've seen for a while. Hamilton, likeable? How much have you had to drink?

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:23

eurobrun wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Gonna list everything I can think of.

Overrated: Kamui Kobayashi

Get out. Now.

Hey, at least you yelled at me because of that and not because I listed Webber as overrated and Vettel as underrated. \o/

Wizzie wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Gonna list everything I can think of.

(from most to least)
Overrated: Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Kamui Kobayashi, Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber, Paul di Resta, Jean-Eric Vergne, Nico Hülkenberg, Robert Kubica, Bruno Senna, Timo Glock, Kimi Räikkönen, Ayrton Senna, Rubens Barrichello, Lewis Hamilton, Stefan Bellof, Eddie Irvine, Daniel Ricciardo

What you've just done my friend is in less than 3 hours make yourself public enemy number 1 on the forum

Eh, it happens all the time, yo. Hell, if it helps, I still consider Senna to be in the top 3.

Also, something from a few pages back...

Faustus wrote:Red Bull should get rid of Mark Webber and get Michael Schumacher to drive the 2nd car, for free.

MSC and Vettel...master and student. In the same car. If the former can adapt to today's tyre shenanigans, then...oh.my.

Schuey's shown that he has some potential left in him. His trashing of Seb at the RoC (despite completely throwing away almost every race in the team event) proved that.

Also, watching the 2007 review reminded me of another possible (slightly) unpopular opinion: 2007 had an utterly amazing final race. Seeing Häkkinen despair as Hamilton fails to overtake Alonso and goes wide made my day, despite Mika being my fave driver of all time.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 12 Jan 2012, 06:59

Pamphlet wrote:Schuey's shown that he has some potential left in him. His trashing of Seb at the RoC (despite completely throwing away almost every race in the team event) proved that.

The big problems Schumi have right now is he's lost most of his qualifying pace (The amount of times last year where he went dangerously close to being the fall guy in Q1 prove that) plus he and Rosberg keep being saddled with the mediocre cars Mercedes keep giving them. But as several races this year have shown, there's still some life in the man.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 12 Jan 2012, 07:44

Can we make a rule here, where you can't just say somebody is overrated without giving a reason as to why?

Pamphlet wrote:Overrated: Kamui Kobayashi, Jim Clark... Robert Kubica... Ayrton Senna

Because I just fail to see how anyone can see those drivers as being overrated.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 12 Jan 2012, 07:58

My unpopular (or popular

) opinion is that I wont be reading Pamphlets post because its stupidly long and clearly done for a wind-up.

As you were.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 12 Jan 2012, 09:19

Wizzie wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Schuey's shown that he has some potential left in him. His trashing of Seb at the RoC (despite completely throwing away almost every race in the team event) proved that.

The big problems Schumi have right now is he's lost most of his qualifying pace (The amount of times last year where he went dangerously close to being the fall guy in Q1 prove that) plus he and Rosberg keep being saddled with the mediocre cars Mercedes keep giving them. But as several races this year have shown, there's still some life in the man.

In my opinion, it isn't necessarily that Schumi has gotten slower, but rather that everyone else has gotten faster. It's why in my opinion Raikkonen's statement that he is 'just as fast as before' is correct, but that it'll be no surprise if he languishes somewhere in the midfield.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 12 Jan 2012, 11:31

CoopsII wrote:My unpopular (or popular ) opinion is that I wont be reading Pamphlets post because its stupidly long and clearly done for a wind-up.

As you were.

And because a diagonal reading brought out this contradiction: Hamilton being overrated like Senna and then only slightly overrated while "not having the talent and potential" of Senna, who is still considered overrated and at the same time placed in the top 3 drivers of all time...

Thinking of it now, Pamphlet is kind of underrating the overrated while slightly underrating the slightly overrated. :lol:

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 12 Jan 2012, 11:40

I agree with one statement: Robert Kubica is overrated. He's had two great seasons (I can't agree with him being the best in 2010, though), but between the two he was average at best, and the same is true for 2007.

As he sadly in my other unpopular but still probably more agreed on opinion won't ever return to Formula One because of his injuries, many will say he surely was going to be a champion, I won't be among them.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 12 Jan 2012, 13:19

QuickYoda41 wrote:I agree with one statement: Robert Kubica is overrated. He's had two great seasons (I can't agree with him being the best in 2010, though), but between the two he was average at best, and the same is true for 2007.

That's fair enough; I'm of the opinion that he put all his potential together in 2010 - nobody outperformed their equipment to the extent that he did, especially when conisdering he did so consistently over the entirety of the season. Then there was that lap at Monaco, where but for Webber's upturn he would've been on pole. In the fifth-best car.