Grand Prix Rejects

Enforcer wrote:

kostas22 wrote:One last year of F1 for Schumi with Ferrari, anyone?

That's not completely insane, Schumacher would probably be at least 20 points ahead of Massa if his (slower) car had been reliable this year. Ferrari have obviously missed Perez and Massa is quite clearly on borrowed time. If it's a case of Massa or Schumacher for them (ie. they don't rate or can't bring in a younger driver like Di Resta) for 2013, with them supposedly interested in Kubica (if he's fit) or Vettel for the near future, then I'd take Schumacher if I were them.

I'd would imagine Fernando Alonso would be the biggest obstacle, though. He'd hardly want the former team spearhead there when he's #1 driver.


Nice to see Perez get a good move. Didn't see it coming at all. But if McLaren can build him a good car, I might have to stop disliking them, though.

I can't see that happening as the current management at Ferrari are quite hostile to Schumacher - Adam Cooper said, via Twitter, that he suggested that to one of Ferrari's spokesmen and was told that he had a better chance of seeing Ascari drive for Ferrari next year than Schumacher. Whilst Schumacher's marketing clout is still likely to be quite large, I think that he'll be heading into permanent retirement at the end of the year.

I think that the current rumours of Massa signing a short term contract extension are more likely given that Massa seems to be the preferred choice for Alonso - besides, given that Domenicali and Di Montezemolo have been so strict on alternative drivers, who else can they sign? They don't want an inexperienced driver, which seems to rule out figures like Di Resta and Hulkenberg (if Perez was too inexperienced, then Di Resta and Hulkenberg, with a similar number of starts to their name, are presumably similarly ineligible), whilst some of the recently retired drivers from the sport, like Heidfeld, don't seem to have registered on Ferrari's radar. The only driver who might fit the bill is Kobayashi, seeing that he has nearly double the number of starts to his name than Perez but is only marginally older, but sadly I expect that he'll be passed over because Perez has stolen the limelight at Sauber.

I don't see Schumi to Ferrari happening. At all. Not with how well he's ingrained himself into Mercedes - it's been mentioned in the past that Mercedes values him for PR purposes on top of his driving duties, plus he was fairly recently made head of Mercedes' driver academy. I think it's far more likely he'll move into a management-side position with Mercedes, as Captain Hammer has suggested a couple times.

I see Hamilton joining Red Bull in 2014 now. Unless Mercedes pull off Brawn-esque Miracles, he'll just collect his wages and move to another paddock. Those rule changes should favour Brawns guile.


Personally, I think this means Jenson will be a strong contender next year. Perez will just want to bed in to the team and I think Red Bulls bubble is bursting. Ferrari need severe improvements too. McLaren have the fastest car and there are no rule changes for next year apart from a front wing they have already implemented.


Anyway, thank god this move happened as we now have the driver merry go round excitement.

I too agree than Massa is likely to be retained, but don't think you should draw any conclusions from di Montezemolo comments. I guess Ferrari already knew about Pérez move when asked about him, therefore wouldn't draw any magical 'these drivers won't be considered, but these will' line anywhere at Ferrari since the intention of the comment may have been simply to say that Checo isn't on their plans.

Well guys, it seems Captain Hammer's thought of the MSC Mercedes team is starting to become reality. Now let's see if Michael retires or not.

TheBigJ wrote:I see Hamilton joining Red Bull in 2014 now. Unless Mercedes pull off Brawn-esque Miracles, he'll just collect his wages and move to another paddock. Those rule changes should favour Brawns guile.

Wait, if the rule changes favour Brawn's guile, why would Lewis move to another team? I suspect his move to Mercedes was an ill-advised one from a purely results point of view, but I hardly think he'll just pack it in after a year if the results aren't there. He should give it at least two years to be sure.

giraurd wrote:I too agree than Massa is likely to be retained, but don't think you should draw any conclusions from di Montezemolo comments. I guess Ferrari already knew about Pérez move when asked about him, therefore wouldn't draw any magical 'these drivers won't be considered, but these will' line anywhere at Ferrari since the intention of the comment may have been simply to say that Checo isn't on their plans.

Why would they know about that? It's not like these contracts were signed months ago. I think it's a case of them not realising that another team might actually want Perez.

To reiterate what I said earlier, I did not see that coming. At all. Well, this puts to rest the Perez-Ferrari rumours, so it makes Felipe Massa all but confirmed at Ferrari. I don't see Ferrari signing someone else to replace him next season, never mind in this season (look at d'Ambrosio, he was behind the Toro Rossos for HWNSNBM's sake).

At least Hamilton can resume having a Villeneuve-like career, huh? I predict the 2013 Merc will be unreliable. (Or maybe Ramilton will live up to his name.) But hey, if anything, Hamilton will probably do thousands of times better than Schumacher! Rosberg isn't too bad either. He's past his prime though. But enough about Merc. Right now, we need to address the fact that Perezmania is about to skyrocket in the next few months

It wasn't that Perez did not have the experience for Ferrari. He was too quick for Ferrari, or to be more specific, Alonso. The last thing Ferrrari needed was new Alonso/Hamilton experience to destabilise the best driver in the world at the moment. In contrast Jenson has a bit more maturity to handle a hot young team-mate.

The knives are already being thrown.

East Londoner wrote:The knives are already being thrown.

I think the souring of the relationship between those two was probably a contributing factor. We forget Hamilton was Ron Dennis' protege, so when Whitmarsh arrived he probably wanted to stamp his own authority on the team, by signing the World Champion, Jenson Button, and we can see that those two get along well whereas the Whitmarsh-Hamilton relationship is more professional. Hamilton's oversized ego didn't mind at first, but I think he'd have sooned realised that Button was going to be just as important and the McLewis days were over. 2011 was a chastising experience, and I think this year he got so pissed off about the fact he couldn't dominate in the best car, he decided to blame the team.

I'm not sure what this means for Nico Rosberg. Schumi has 7 WCs to his name, and I think he'll give us one last piece of magic before the season is out, so I wouldn't worry about him.

Ross Prawn wrote:It wasn't that Perez did not have the experience for Ferrari. He was too quick for Ferrari, or to be more specific, Alonso. The last thing Ferrrari needed was new Alonso/Hamilton experience to destabilise the best driver in the world at the moment. In contrast Jenson has a bit more maturity to handle a hot young team-mate.

I thought this too. Perez only has two seasons but has dealt with a variety of scenarios and IMHO has shown maturity well beyond his years and experience. Not to mention making a return from a bad accident which could have ruined his confidence, and making the decision to be honest with his team when he didn't feel well enough to drive in Canada where a lot of drivers would have forced themselves back too soon. I wonder if this "inexperience" line is to hide the fact that Alonso doesn't want Perez as a team mate?

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

TheBigJ wrote:I see Hamilton joining Red Bull in 2014 now. Unless Mercedes pull off Brawn-esque Miracles, he'll just collect his wages and move to another paddock. Those rule changes should favour Brawns guile.

Wait, if the rule changes favour Brawn's guile, why would Lewis move to another team? I suspect his move to Mercedes was an ill-advised one from a purely results point of view, but I hardly think he'll just pack it in after a year if the results aren't there. He should give it at least two years to be sure.

giraurd wrote:I too agree than Massa is likely to be retained, but don't think you should draw any conclusions from di Montezemolo comments. I guess Ferrari already knew about Pérez move when asked about him, therefore wouldn't draw any magical 'these drivers won't be considered, but these will' line anywhere at Ferrari since the intention of the comment may have been simply to say that Checo isn't on their plans.

Why would they know about that? It's not like these contracts were signed months ago. I think it's a case of them not realising that another team might actually want Perez.

If the timeframe that Whitmarsh claims that the sequence of events took place in are correct, then the actual signing of the contract with Perez was a pretty hasty affair. Whitmarsh says that Hamilton spoke to him on Wednesday and informed them that he would be taking up Mercedes's offer, so McLaren appear to have obtained a formal agreement from Perez, including taking time out to discuss sponsorship arrangements with the Slim family, within 24 hours. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/2 ... formulaOne

I have a feeling Perez was in talks with McLaren all along... It's just that the Hamilton signing quickened things a bit

Drunken ideas I put up:
Raikkonen at Ferrari, Massa at Williams - Raikkonen returns to his old team with what should be a competitive car, while Massa gets a fairly good team, and should show more consistency than Maldonado and Senna combined. (Minus technical problems.) Only problem is I don't think Alonso will like to have to contend to the #1 status, but if Ferrari wants to win the WCC, there

Pic at Sauber - Why? Well, I personally think that Gutierrez (and anyone else in the juniors that isn't Wickens, James Calado and maybe Mitch Evans) is overrated, and Pic would be a good fit at Sauber - inexperienced but shows great talent. This will likely be a make-or-break situation, as I don't think the team will care for a lack of pace in the next few days.

Other drunken ideas that I have no time explaining because they are so ridiculous:
Grosjean at Williams, Maldonado at Lotus (maybe Raikkonen can teach Pastor into being more consistent!)
Wickens at Sauber
Vergne at Sauber (he needs to get out of Toro Rosso before they ruin his career!)
Petrov at Williams (because he deserves the seat better than Kovalainen)

Alonso said a few months ago that his teammate should be a Team Player. Hence is obvious why Perez was never going to sign for Ferrari, neither Raikkonen or, why not say it, Schumacher once he´s found out he won´t be driving a Mercedes next year. Only Webber would fill that role.

Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso. I can't believe how Ferrari let him slip away. Obviously Maranello have other plans for the future. This all confirms to me that Vettel is probably signed for Ferrari 2014 onwards.

So Massa takes a one year contract with Ferrari. Kovalainen has still an outside chance here though since I think Alonso wouldn't mind working with Heikki since they have been together at Renault for several seasons.

The second Sauber seat will go to either Gutierrez or Alguersuari. Gutierrez might have a bigger wallet but Alguersuari is certainly the better driver with more experience and has more upside (plus DJ Squire is only a year older than Esteban).

Benetton wrote:So Massa takes a one year contract with Ferrari. Kovalainen has still an outside chance here though since I think Alonso wouldn't mind working with Heikki since they have been together at Renault for several seasons.

Only in 2006, actually, when Heikki was a test/3rd driver for Renault.

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso.

Called it back in '09. From now on I'll only refer to Lewis Hamilton as "Jacques".

What you must remember is that mainstream media grabs far more attention in the general public's eye than specialist publications that actually know what they are talking about. Most sports reporters in mainstream media are hacks who don't have any idea how F1 works or who are the people to watch. They see "Lewis Hamilton" as some superstar just because they were the ones that hyped him up in the first place. They don't rate Sergio Perez because they barely know who he is. Many casual "fans" don't know either, in many peoples minds around the globe there is only Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, and "that other lot at the back who never do anything". Because Checo was driving for "that lot" then they don't have a bloody clue.

First time I remember watching Checo was back when he drove for T-Sport in the British F3 National Class. Granted, it was a rather small field in said class but he still completely crushed everyone in it and was easily mixing it with the newest spec cars the year he was national champion. Notice how the Daily Fail completely forgets to mention this, probably because they have no idea. If anything that article looks like it just regurgitates info on Wikipedia without adding anything new or some sort of interesting inside information. It doesn't even live up to the headline of the article.

Been talking to some friends in Indonesia, they seem to think Pertamina's pockets, if we use a very detailed metaphor, have a hole in them. They don't have the money it looks like on the balance sheet they do, and Haryanto doesn't have the funds to outmuscle Chilton, or anyone else for that matter. Just because the official figures suggest they are worth more than Aon several times over doesn't seem to mean he has more funds. At least that removes one possible threat to Glock or Pic for next season.

kostas22 wrote:Been talking to some friends in Indonesia, they seem to think Pertamina's pockets, if we use a very detailed metaphor, have a hole in them. They don't have the money it looks like on the balance sheet they do, and Haryanto doesn't have the funds to outmuscle Chilton, or anyone else for that matter. Just because the official figures suggest they are worth more than Aon several times over doesn't seem to mean he has more funds. At least that removes one possible threat to Glock or Pic for next season.

Yeah, because we (Indonesians) were always doing corruption and bribery...

On other hand, Schumacher to HRT anyone?

FMecha wrote:
On other hand, Schumacher to HRT anyone?

If only

ok fellow F1 peeps,

now that i'm over my initial shock for what's going on with Schumi/Lewis/Merc.. and having read through all the different things, from the german, and brit media and a fair bit of digging around, all i've gotta say is..


:yuno: SCHUMI!! Y U NO SIGNED UP BEFORE SUMMER BREAK?!

and ultimately, being that Ham and Britney practically live in the same apartment block in Monaco, and are best buds, should be great for the team, no feuds etc

and yes, I'm still sticking with the fan club, I'm in too deep with Mercedes, both in brackley and stuttgart, got a number of the team people following me on twitter and FB. Schumi in my view had 1, maybe 2 years left in him. it has to be said that he was seriously hampered with the mega unreliability on his side of the garage, and that must have influenced his decision making process.

and yes, on twitter and FB I've had an influx of ham fans

kostas22 wrote:

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso.

Called it back in '09. From now on I'll only refer to Lewis Hamilton as "Jacques".

Please don't, it's awfully tedious when people permanently change someone's name just to make a point, not to mention just baffling in this case. We get the point, move on.

fjackdaw wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso.

Called it back in '09. From now on I'll only refer to Lewis Hamilton as "Jacques".

Please don't, it's awfully tedious when people permanently change someone's name just to make a point, not to mention just baffling in this case. We get the point, move on.

It's Jacques' fault that he's practically ended his competitive career

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso. I can't believe how Ferrari let him slip away. Obviously Maranello have other plans for the future. This all confirms to me that Vettel is probably signed for Ferrari 2014 onwards.

So Massa takes a one year contract with Ferrari. Kovalainen has still an outside chance here though since I think Alonso wouldn't mind working with Heikki since they have been together at Renault for several seasons.

The second Sauber seat will go to either Gutierrez or Alguersuari. Gutierrez might have a bigger wallet but Alguersuari is certainly the better driver with more experience and has more upside (plus DJ Squire is only a year older than Esteban).

Careful now - Perez may have shown a fair amount of promise at Sauber and picked up some very strong finishes this year, but stepping up to a front running seat at McLaren is not going to be a trivial task. It might be a touch early to declare Perez "the new Alonso" just yet - we've seen drivers in the past put in some very strong performances in lower ranking teams but struggle to translate that into success with a larger team.

After all, after the relatively quiet year Sauber had in 2011 that saw them lose a bit of ground to Force India, the team were probably not anticipating the sort of success that they have experienced this year - in turn, that probably meant that expectations for their drivers were relatively low. Perez himself has referred to the atmosphere within Sauber as being relatively relaxed, probably in part because, although Newey thought the C31 looked like a competitive car in pre-season testing, few probably would have expected Sauber to have picked up one podium this season, let alone three.
Changing that for an environment where you would be expected to score podiums and victories on a regular basis whilst competing against a former world championship winner, however, is something of a step up - Perez has handled the situation with maturity so far, but that is still a notable change in situation. That is not to say I can't see Perez adjusting - I am fairly confident that he can - but I'd rather wait and see whether he can build on that potential before making those sorts of claims just yet.

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso.

kostas22 wrote:Called it back in '09. From now on I'll only refer to Lewis Hamilton as "Jacques".

fjackdaw wrote:Please don't, it's awfully tedious when people permanently change someone's name just to make a point, not to mention just baffling in this case. We get the point, move on.

pasta_maldonado wrote:It's Jacques' fault that he's practically ended his competitive career

Which are you referring to, the real Jacques or the newly coined 'Jacques?'

Benetton wrote:Lewis Hamilton has now officially gone down the Jacques Villeneuve route.

It's funny how every news outlet says McLaren are the big losers here. I don't see it, they signed Sergio Perez! Perez is the next Alonso.

kostas22 wrote:Called it back in '09. From now on I'll only refer to Lewis Hamilton as "Jacques".

fjackdaw wrote:Please don't, it's awfully tedious when people permanently change someone's name just to make a point, not to mention just baffling in this case. We get the point, move on.

pasta_maldonado wrote:It's Jacques' fault that he's practically ended his competitive career

JeremyMcClean wrote:Which are you referring to, the real Jacques or the newly coined 'Jacques?'

The newly coined 'Jacques'

I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Why have Mercedes GP hired Niki Lauda? Is he not the expert on the broadcast of German TV station RTL anymore? Will he be the next Nick Fry given his tenure in team management at Jaguar did not turn out so nicely?

This version of Mercedes GP has got "new Toyota GP" written all over it in a way, not to say there is still a lot of "BAR-Honda" blood running in that team's veins. It's fitting they hire another star driver instead of an up and coming youngster, even though you could still say Hamilton is both.

Sauber's problem is probably that Gutierrez is not ready yet and if they don't take him, the sponsorship will go. But who knows - if they could get Schumacher, Senor Slim might agree to sponsor him for a season instead?
Here's hoping they have the budget to keep Kobayashi since he does not exactly seem to become Alonso's teammate for a year. However, Kamui has got strong competition for a seat by Alguersuari and Kovalainen. One of them might turn up at Williams in place of Bruno Lalli y Senna. Charles Pic should not be overlooked but really, which team needs somebody to look at, other than Ferrari that is?

I would not expect too much additional movement up and down the paddock anymore than what has already taken place. Maybe at Toro Rosso, they decide to park one of their drivers in favour of another rookie when in reality, they should just get back one of Alguersuari or Buemi.

We will probably see some sponsor influenced surprises near the back of the grid again early next year.

eurobrun wrote:I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Especially since Whitmarsh said that part of the reason for Di Resta being sidelined was sponsor pressure for a non British driver (Whitmarsh mentioned that some sponsors found it "very appealing" to have a Latin American driver in the team).

Yannick wrote:Why have Mercedes GP hired Niki Lauda? Is he not the expert on the broadcast of German TV station RTL anymore? Will he be the next Nick Fry given his tenure in team management at Jaguar did not turn out so nicely?

Lauda's role at Mercedes will be a bit different to what he did at Jaguar Racing - whilst he was a team principal there, at Mercedes he is a non executive chairman (so his involvement in the day to day affairs of the team would be much more limited).

mario wrote:

eurobrun wrote:I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Especially since Whitmarsh said that part of the reason for Di Resta being sidelined was sponsor pressure for a non British driver (Whitmarsh mentioned that some sponsors found it "very appealing" to have a Latin American driver in the team).

Yannick wrote:Why have Mercedes GP hired Niki Lauda? Is he not the expert on the broadcast of German TV station RTL anymore? Will he be the next Nick Fry given his tenure in team management at Jaguar did not turn out so nicely?

Lauda's role at Mercedes will be a bit different to what he did at Jaguar Racing - whilst he was a team principal there, at Mercedes he is a non executive chairman (so his involvement in the day to day affairs of the team would be much more limited).

Are we saying that Lauda will have a Helmut Marko kind of role then?

eurobrun wrote:I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Yellow helmet + Mercedes = ???

redbulljack14 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Yellow helmet + Mercedes = ???

A hideous color clash, that's your answer.

Phoenix wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:

eurobrun wrote:I would love to see Di Resta's F1 Slate alter-ego's reaction to being overlooked

Yellow helmet + Mercedes = ???

A hideous color clash, that's your answer.

That didn't stop Nico Rosberg.

redbulljack14 wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:Yellow helmet + Mercedes = ???

A hideous color clash, that's your answer.

That didn't stop Nico Rosberg.

Still, horrendous, just like Schumacher's red helmet with Mercedes' silver.

Phoenix wrote:Still, horrendous, just like Schumacher's red helmet with Mercedes' silver.

Given you said that, and given Schumacher's red helmet was optimized for Ferrari, I'd say Schumacher should have reverted his helmet design to this:

JeremyMcClean wrote:Which are you referring to, the real Jacques or the newly coined 'Jacques?'

This is exactly why calling Lewis Jacques is a bad idea!

fjackdaw wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:Which are you referring to, the real Jacques or the newly coined 'Jacques?'

This is exactly why calling Lewis Jacques is a bad idea!

Not really. Jacques can be changed into a verb, to describe any driver who is a douche. "Damn, that dude is a real Jacques."

kostas22 wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:Which are you referring to, the real Jacques or the newly coined 'Jacques?'

This is exactly why calling Lewis Jacques is a bad idea!

Not really. Jacques can be changed into a verb, to describe any driver who is a douche. "Damn, that dude is a real Jacques."

You probably mean Jacques can be changed into an adjective, not a verb

Phoenix wrote:

kostas22 wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:This is exactly why calling Lewis Jacques is a bad idea!

Not really. Jacques can be changed into a verb, to describe any driver who is a douche. "Damn, that dude is a real Jacques."

You probably mean Jacques can be changed into an adjective, not a verb

Actually I couldn't make my mind up. My initial thought while writing that was "He really Jacques'd it up", which would indeed be a verb. So my train of thought took a detour of a cliff I suppose.

kostas22 wrote:Actually I couldn't make my mind up. My initial thought while writing that was "He really Jacques'd it up", which would indeed be a verb. So my train of thought took a detour of a cliff I suppose.

In essence, you Jacques'd up your post...