Grand Prix Rejects

elho wrote:Welcome BEE-F12010



look a lot like last years car...

I love that. SO much. Looks wonderful, in a strange kind of '70s retro way.

Re the new Renault:

The good news is the colour scheme (yay for tradition!), and Petrov confirmed.

The bad news is the car looks horribly like the R29 from last year, and awfully chunky and unsophisticated compared to the other cars launched so far. In fact, is that really just an R29 decked out in a new colours? Kubica ought to be worried before the car even turns a wheel.

Enforcer wrote:

eytl wrote:OK, this is getting ridiculous.

Not only have Sauber retained the "BMW Sauber" name despite no further BMW involvement and Ferrari engines, but the C29 (which, note, has returned to Sauber's car designations, instead of calling it the "F1.10") has retained the BMW colour scheme apart from plain black wings. Sponsorship screams loudly by its complete and utter absence.

Other first impressions: quite interesting nose and front wing design, rest of the car looks quite basic and engine cover fin has been retained.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81144

Dear lord, it looks horrible.

Again, I don't know much about F1 car topography, but the colour scheme is certainly very dull. It looks like a 1998 Tyrell.

elho wrote:Welcome BEE-F12010



look a lot like last years car...

Wow, best paint job so far. But the car looks really conservative.

another pic

Autosport is right. That paint job is a copy of what they used back in the 70s.

Note also, apart from TW Steel and Total, again the complete lack of sponsorship - so Genii is funding the season. Looks like we're in for a season full of bare-looking cars sponsorship-wise.

interesting angle of the new Sauber

eytl wrote:Note also, apart from TW Steel and Total, again the complete lack of sponsorship - so Genii is funding the season. Looks like we're in for a season full of bare-looking cars sponsorship-wise.

Yeah, it looks like a not-unwelcome return to a simpler time...

I've never been much of a fan of the Renault team but this year with Kubica, no flav, a Russian and the cool new (in that I mean 'old') look... well, I'll be rooting for them...

Like the Renault. The Sauber doesn't look to bad from the front.

elho wrote:interesting angle of the new Sauber

Imagine having the Man from Japan on your tail in this!!! Almost as scary looking as the Macca...

I'm very impressed with how well Sauber have coped with continuing to develop a car whilst trying to ensure long-term stability... almost all the cars look more evolved than that Ferrari now... what were the guys in Maranello doing when all the other teams were busy with their cars???

Wow! So there are differences between the R29 and the R30...

Phoenix wrote:
Wow! So there are differences between the R29 and the R30...

From that pic they seem to have got away without lengthening the wheelbase.

Indeed, maybe the long wheelbase isn't going to be the be all and end all...

Look at the Renault front wing though. Especially the end plates. Remember at the beginning of last year, one the biggest issues McLaren faced was the poor flow of air from the front wing around the outside of the tyres. Unless Renault have a completely new front wing (could be a possibility) they are going to struggle.

Nice scheme though, and I love the McLaren. Echoing what others have said I was worried we'd see no new concepts for 2010, but the boys from Woking have proved me wrong.

And contrary to what appears to be popular opinion, I like the white santander front and rear wings, breaks up all that red. Like the white stripe round the engine cover in 93, only better.

Now for mercedes, williams and toro rosso tomorrow!

AndreaModa wrote:Indeed, maybe the long wheelbase isn't going to be the be all and end all...

That may give some credence to the rumours that that Renault is the most fuel efficient engine, which will be good news for Red Bull as well. Compared to that the McLaren and Ferrari look seriously long.

The Renault livery is actually quite nice. It's definitely the nicest car so far after the Ferrari. The shark fin lets it down.

noisebox wrote:

Phoenix wrote:
Wow! So there are differences between the R29 and the R30...

From that pic they seem to have got away without lengthening the wheelbase.

Even stranger when the official press release by Renault states quite clearly that the car is now 5,050 mm long - or 250 mm longer then the R29. Something is definitely wrong with those pictures - which is why on several sites, there is a furious discussion about whether the car really is the R30, or a modified R29 (take, for example, http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/31/2 ... -pictures/ )

My personal opinion, having looked at the pictures, is that this can't be the R30 - I think that the studio shots have been done with a modified R29. However, I think that the photos of the car on the track are probably of the R30, since it would be be foolish for Renault to have brought the R29.

mario wrote:Even stranger when the official press release by Renault states quite clearly that the car is now 5,050 mm long - or 250 mm longer then the R29. Something is definitely wrong with those pictures - which is why on several sites, there is a furious discussion about whether the car really is the R30, or a modified R29 (take, for example, http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/31/2 ... -pictures/ )

My personal opinion, having looked at the pictures, is that this can't be the R30 - I think that the studio shots have been done with a modified R29. However, I think that the photos of the car on the track are probably of the R30, since it would be be foolish for Renault to have brought the R29.

It look like more than a modified R29 - suspension geometry is different, as is the position of the cockpit which means it's a different tub - I wonder if they fiddled with the scale of the pictures?

mario wrote:
Even stranger when the official press release by Renault states quite clearly that the car is now 5,050 mm long - or 250 mm longer then the R29. Something is definitely wrong with those pictures - which is why on several sites, there is a furious discussion about whether the car really is the R30, or a modified R29 (take, for example, http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/31/2 ... -pictures/ )

My personal opinion, having looked at the pictures, is that this can't be the R30 - I think that the studio shots have been done with a modified R29. However, I think that the photos of the car on the track are probably of the R30, since it would be be foolish for Renault to have brought the R29.

Thats just dumb. you are saying this isnt R30 simply because the PICTURE doesnt appear to be 250mm (two and a half centrimeter!) longer?

2.5 cm is a goddamn small lenght, out of 5 meters. And considering that the cockpit has definitely being moved forward, which wouldnt make sense on R29 as they are cramped as they are and Kubica is iirc taller than both Alonso or Piquet.

So I am inclined to believe the scaler has just bathplug up. Having spent a good deal of time playing around with Photoshop, I can say that a small slip of a hand can alter a picture quite a lot if it goes unnoticed.

DonTirri wrote:

mario wrote:
Even stranger when the official press release by Renault states quite clearly that the car is now 5,050 mm long - or 250 mm longer then the R29. Something is definitely wrong with those pictures - which is why on several sites, there is a furious discussion about whether the car really is the R30, or a modified R29 (take, for example, http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/31/2 ... -pictures/ )

My personal opinion, having looked at the pictures, is that this can't be the R30 - I think that the studio shots have been done with a modified R29. However, I think that the photos of the car on the track are probably of the R30, since it would be be foolish for Renault to have brought the R29.

Thats just dumb. you are saying this isnt R30 simply because the PICTURE doesnt appear to be 250mm (two and a half centrimeter!) longer?

2.5 cm is a goddamn small lenght, out of 5 meters. And considering that the cockpit has definitely being moved forward, which wouldnt make sense on R29 as they are cramped as they are and Kubica is iirc taller than both Alonso or Piquet.

So I am inclined to believe the scaler has just bathplug up. Having spent a good deal of time playing around with Photoshop, I can say that a small slip of a hand can alter a picture quite a lot if it goes unnoticed.

That's 25 centimeters, not 2.5. 25 centimeters is kind of a big difference.

thehemogoblin wrote:

DonTirri wrote:

mario wrote:
Even stranger when the official press release by Renault states quite clearly that the car is now 5,050 mm long - or 250 mm longer then the R29. Something is definitely wrong with those pictures - which is why on several sites, there is a furious discussion about whether the car really is the R30, or a modified R29 (take, for example, http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/31/2 ... -pictures/ )

My personal opinion, having looked at the pictures, is that this can't be the R30 - I think that the studio shots have been done with a modified R29. However, I think that the photos of the car on the track are probably of the R30, since it would be be foolish for Renault to have brought the R29.

Thats just dumb. you are saying this isnt R30 simply because the PICTURE doesnt appear to be 250mm (two and a half centrimeter!) longer?

2.5 cm is a goddamn small lenght, out of 5 meters. And considering that the cockpit has definitely being moved forward, which wouldnt make sense on R29 as they are cramped as they are and Kubica is iirc taller than both Alonso or Piquet.

So I am inclined to believe the scaler has just bathplug up. Having spent a good deal of time playing around with Photoshop, I can say that a small slip of a hand can alter a picture quite a lot if it goes unnoticed.

That's 25 centimeters, not 2.5. 25 centimeters is kind of a big difference.

... THIS is the reason I shouldnt be posting at 00:10...

Yet my other argument sticks, on the picture the cockpit is clearly moved forward, which means it has to be a new tub like posted just before me. So the picture must be mis-scaled as A) Whats the point of making a new tub if its not the car you intend to use and B) with Kubica being taller than both Alonso and Piquet, simply moving the cockpit forward without lenghtening the car isnt smart. and C) Renault stated R30 was longer than R29.

So, mis-scaling.

If it didnt have the forward-moved cockpit, it could've been a modified R29.

I think that modified front suspension would also preclude it from being a modified R29. It mounts in a very different place.

If the image had been scaled wrong so it would be the same as the R29 (if the R30 was much longer) the rear wing would appear smaller on the R30 than the R29.
This suggest to me it really is a similar size...

The new Renault is baffling, but it tells me that Renault are going to suck this season, but they have two good drivers. If Petrov matches Kubica or comes within a few tenths of him, Petrov will look like a real hero.

Toro Rosso launch is said to be in two hours.

Cynon wrote:The new Renault is baffling, but it tells me that Renault are going to suck this season, but they have two good drivers. If Petrov matches Kubica or comes within a few tenths of him, Petrov will look like a real hero.

There's some contention over exactly what Renault have brought along. Some pople say it's an R30, actual and whole, but others believe it's an R29 with a few 2010-spec parts. The main sticking point seems to be that Renault say the R30 is 250mm longer than the R29, but top-down comparative photos show virtually no difference in the length of the car. Whether this is because the photos have to be scaled to dimensions that would allow the rear tyres (essentially the 'anchor point' of these photos - in all top-down comparions, the rear tyres are aligned because they do not move around from year to year and so make an excellent reference point), or the R30 is actually an R29 with some R30 parts (R29.5?) remains to be seen. Some people claim that this is he car that will be competing in Bahrain, while others say that the car will have been comepltely worked over by then.

One thing seems to be certain: Renault have been very clever with their design. It's difficult to spot, but take a look at the sidepodes - they actually come much further forwards on the R30 than on the R29. It's hard to see because the frontend of the R30 sidepods are black and so look like the floor of the car, but it's certainly there. They've been able to move the sidepods fowards and keep the engine cowling almost identical to the R29. This means te weight will be distributed laterally across the back end a little, but a low fuel tank and the presence of the driver will mean they have a short-wheelbase car with a low centre of gravity. Look for it to be especially effective on tight circuits like Monaco and Singapore.

redbulljack14 wrote:The Renault livery is actually quite nice.

IMHO its the best livery so far.

Decent liveries dont win races of course...

STR5 due to be unveiled in less than fifteen minutes.

Captain Hammer wrote:STR5 due to be unveiled in less than fifteen minutes.

Ooh. Maybe I should stay awake.

New Mercedes has been unveiled:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81167

Paint job now seems to work really well, giving the car a real sculpted appearance. At first glance the basic philosophy of the Brawn seems to have been retained, with a Red Bull influence over the nosecone.

But why does Schumi appear to have retained his red helmet? It's so associated with his Ferrari tenure ...

STR5 is here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81168

Not much obvious change from that angle, save for red over the front axle instead of blue. And should we read into the VW logo on the board behind Buemi and Algersuari?

Many Blue Flags wrote:STR5 is here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81168

Not much obvious change from that angle, save for red over the front axle instead of blue. And should we read into the VW logo on the board behind Buemi and Algersuari?

I've noticed those VW logos on Toro Rosso lorries on TV footage for several years now. Always wondered what that was about. But it's nothing new to this year.

Merc W01:

Nose looks very agressive, as does the airbox and engine cover, which looks worryingly lik a 1st generation A1GP car!

Many Blue Flags wrote:And should we read into the VW logo on the board behind Buemi and Algersuari?

No. They're one of Toro Rosso's partners. They've been supplying the team with transporters for years.

noisebox wrote:Merc W01:

Nose looks very agressive, as does the airbox and engine cover, which looks worryingly lik a 1st generation A1GP car!

Maybe, but I like it. My favourite 2010 car I have to admit, which kills me because the schumy is driving it....

What time is the Williams due to be launched today??????

noisebox wrote:Merc W01:
Nose looks very agressive, as does the airbox and engine cover, which looks worryingly lik a 1st generation A1GP car!

I knew i'd seen that airbox before, but I couldn't put my finger on it, thanks!

Lets hope MGP sticks around for longer than A1GP did.

God, the Mercedes livery is so damn cheap...
The STR5 looks almost equal as the STR4, and it's supposed to be the first 100% Toro Rosso car.

noisebox wrote:Merc W01:

Nose looks very agressive, as does the airbox and engine cover, which looks worryingly lik a 1st generation A1GP car!

And having taken a look at the airbox, they have pulled a very clever trick. By separating the roll over protection from the structure of the air intake, they now have the ability to modify that part of the car much more, since they will not need to resubmit the car for crash testing.
As for the paintjob, I've warmed to it a little, now we can see it in natural light. However, the turqoise lines on the rear wing make it look look the team have tipped a tin of flow visualisation paint over it.

[Edit] Looks like Mclaren are already getting out the flow visualisation paint



Meanwhile, the merry game of 'copy the leader' is commencing - the R30 happens to be running a front wing which bears a remarkable similarity to the Mclaren front wing...

Rear wing looks interesting, though, with those slight indents on the lower edge - I wonder what benefit that is supposed to give?

Ive realised why I quite like the Renault livery.

Its because it reminds me of the late 90s/early noughties Jordans. Great days! Go on Frentzen!! Give it some, big man!!!