Grand Prix Rejects

DonTirri wrote:excuse me for this slight off topic but I gotta get this off my chest.

Fitch: Your style of posting is EXTREMELY IRRITATING!

Ridiculous amounts of dots, random capitalization of letters in the midst of sentences and generally long unbroken sentences.

The English language is crying for mercy from your post, and the fact that you are a native speaker of the language makes your offence even worse!

Tell me about it. I've already told him to try and post coherently; he just shrugged it off.

Not everyone around here speaks English as a first language. It's common courtesy to post in a manner that can be read easily, and that means not capitalising the first letter of every word, not abusing the concept of an ellipsis and not ignoring the rules of punctuation and grammar.

Captain Hammer wrote:

DonTirri wrote:excuse me for this slight off topic but I gotta get this off my chest.

Fitch: Your style of posting is EXTREMELY IRRITATING!

Ridiculous amounts of dots, random capitalization of letters in the midst of sentences and generally long unbroken sentences.

The English language is crying for mercy from your post, and the fact that you are a native speaker of the language makes your offence even worse!

Tell me about it. I've already told him to try and post coherently; he just shrugged it off.

Not everyone around here speaks English as a first language. It's common courtesy to post in a manner that can be read easily, and that means not capitalising the first letter of every word, not abusing the concept of an ellipsis and not ignoring the rules of punctuation and grammar.

The thing is, when people do that, I generally disregard their entire post. If there is at least an effort to be made to take the post out of stream-of-consciousness, I'll stop and read it.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

DonTirri wrote:excuse me for this slight off topic but I gotta get this off my chest.

Fitch: Your style of posting is EXTREMELY IRRITATING!

Ridiculous amounts of dots, random capitalization of letters in the midst of sentences and generally long unbroken sentences.

The English language is crying for mercy from your post, and the fact that you are a native speaker of the language makes your offence even worse!

Tell me about it. I've already told him to try and post coherently; he just shrugged it off.

Not everyone around here speaks English as a first language. It's common courtesy to post in a manner that can be read easily, and that means not capitalising the first letter of every word, not abusing the concept of an ellipsis and not ignoring the rules of punctuation and grammar.

The thing is, when people do that, I generally disregard their entire post. If there is at least an effort to be made to take the post out of stream-of-consciousness, I'll stop and read it.

In my case, I disregard every post with 10+ lines. Too lazy I am

Apologies, when I go on a rant, I tend to post it as such. I will TRY to post better in the future.

For reference, Fitch, and not a judgement...:

The Importance of Correct Punctuation

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours?
Gloria

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours,Gloria

The debate over whether Campos and USF1 are any worse off than either Virgin and Lotus is simple.

The latter two both have two confirmed drivers.
The latter two also have confirmed dates for car launches and subsequent testing.
The latter two both have substantial confirmed backing from large multi-national corporations.
I won't comment on the fact that the latter two also happen to be currently completely based in the UK...

The fact of the matter is that there is a certain amount of professionalism involved with F1 and whilst Campos went to Dallara to have the car built and confirmed Bruno Senna's arrival fairly early on, since then there has been little sign of progress. Similarly, USF1 have also been fairly quiet, Lopez was only announced last week, and prior to that all we had to go on was some photos of a factory and some 3D computer models of a car. Oh and Peter Windsor continually emphasising that everything was on track (I have nothing against the man by the way).

I may be proved wrong, and no matter what any Americans or otherwise might say, I'll only be convinced that either Campos or USF1 have any credibility when they turn up for testing or show up on the grid in Bahrain.

AndreaModa wrote:I may be proved wrong, and no matter what any Americans or otherwise might say, I'll only be convinced that either Campos or USF1 have any credibility when they turn up for testing or show up on the grid in Bahrain.

If they show up at all...I assume we will get 22 cars on Bahrain.

Phoenix wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:I may be proved wrong, and no matter what any Americans or otherwise might say, I'll only be convinced that either Campos or USF1 have any credibility when they turn up for testing or show up on the grid in Bahrain.

If they show up at all...I assume we will get 22 cars on Bahrain.

24 cars... Because Stefan GP have a car launch date and have announced Kazuki Nakajima as a driver:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81219

German website motorsport-total.de has another take on the story:
Since Campos has been partly bought by Tony Teixeira whom, according to the story (and somewhat understandably) neither Ferrari (whom A1GP still ows money) nor Ecclestone want in F1, and since Campos also could not pay Dallara in time, Dallara might help USF1 who seem to have the necessary money but don't seem to be able to build a car on time. Stefan GP might, in this scenario, then get Campos' grid slot.
I don't really know what to make of this, but since the website is usually rather reliable, I thought you might be interested.

While an interesting story, if by this stage USF1 are so far behind and so slap-dash as to not have 2 cars ready for Bahrain, I don't think merely purchasing a couple of cars from Dallara is going to suddenly make everything A-OK over at Charlotte.

I'm still hoping they get their own car onto the grid.

dr-baker wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:I may be proved wrong, and no matter what any Americans or otherwise might say, I'll only be convinced that either Campos or USF1 have any credibility when they turn up for testing or show up on the grid in Bahrain.

If they show up at all...I assume we will get 22 cars on Bahrain.

24 cars... Because Stefan GP have a car launch date and have announced Kazuki Nakajima as a driver:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81219

Oh, I see. I hope they eventually make it because now it's clear they're quite organized. A question-would they inherit the Panasonic sponsorship as are taking over Toyota and have their support?

Well I remember reading somewhere that Panasonic had commented that they wanted to remain in F1 as a sponsor, and seeing as they've clearly not lined up a deal with any of the first 7 teams to unveil their cars, it could well be a possiblity...

Apparently Campos is looking to sell to Teixeria, but the F1 Commission is very hesitant about it because Teixeria owes a lot of money to Ferrari over the A!GP engine deal.

So they should be.

As much as I support Adrian Campos, selling to Tony Teixeira after he oversaw A1GP's disappearance down the gurgler would guarantee that the team has no credibility.

Using the "Stefan RG-01 engine". Outstanding.

I know it's the Toyota powerplant from last year, but that's still cool.

As for Campos, even though he allegedly wants Adam Carroll in the car (who I really want to see on the grid), the FIA or F1 Commission are right to keep Teixeira away from it. Pay Ferrari and then we might talk. Might.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

DonTirri wrote:excuse me for this slight off topic but I gotta get this off my chest.

Fitch: Your style of posting is EXTREMELY IRRITATING!

Ridiculous amounts of dots, random capitalization of letters in the midst of sentences and generally long unbroken sentences.

The English language is crying for mercy from your post, and the fact that you are a native speaker of the language makes your offence even worse!

Tell me about it. I've already told him to try and post coherently; he just shrugged it off.

Not everyone around here speaks English as a first language. It's common courtesy to post in a manner that can be read easily, and that means not capitalising the first letter of every word, not abusing the concept of an ellipsis and not ignoring the rules of punctuation and grammar.

The thing is, when people do that, I generally disregard their entire post. If there is at least an effort to be made to take the post out of stream-of-consciousness, I'll stop and read it.

Sorry for returning to this off-topic diversion, but in a way I'm actually pleased to see there are members of the grammar and punctuation police patrolling this forum. Given the online habits of most of today's "youf", I fear for the English language and what kind of weird dialect my children will have to learn.

The Importance of Correct Punctuation

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours?
Gloria

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours,Gloria

Can I say that this is also completely off-topic, but completely brilliant.

The debate over whether Campos and USF1 are any worse off than either Virgin and Lotus is simple.

The latter two both have two confirmed drivers.
The latter two also have confirmed dates for car launches and subsequent testing.
The latter two both have substantial confirmed backing from large multi-national corporations.
I won't comment on the fact that the latter two also happen to be currently completely based in the UK...

The fact of the matter is that there is a certain amount of professionalism involved with F1 and whilst Campos went to Dallara to have the car built and confirmed Bruno Senna's arrival fairly early on, since then there has been little sign of progress. Similarly, USF1 have also been fairly quiet, Lopez was only announced last week, and prior to that all we had to go on was some photos of a factory and some 3D computer models of a car. Oh and Peter Windsor continually emphasising that everything was on track (I have nothing against the man by the way).

And this is also completely on point. Has anyone seen the videos on the USF1 site of Speed TV commentator Bob Varsha doing a 'factory walk'? The place looks completely deserted. I'm actually not amongst the Peter Windsor haters - in fact I hold him in quite high regard - but I am worried about their progress.

The point remains, why would USF1 continue to say everything is fine if it's not? If USF1 continue to make claims that everything is on schedule and they will be at these tests and at the races, and then they don't show. What will happen? One, they look like the biggest idiots in the history of Formula 1; and two, they lose ANY credibility they have with the FIA.

If they know that can't make it, why would you continue to lie to everyone that you can? It just doesn't make since.

As I said before, I think the USF1 team know more then they are letting onto. Yeah they may only be finishing up the car now, and things might be tight for the first few weeks of the season. But look at Super Aguri, they had similar issues and within a year they were running consistently BETTER then their "parent" team.

Wait for Bahrain, then we can start the team bashing.

Also, Stefan GP have sent a Container of Race Equipment to Bahrain for the race. They're trying to show the FIA that they are ready, and can have a car on the grid if there is a spot. In addition, I read on SpeedTV something about Campos is so far behind on payments that Dallara has the option to sell the project to someone, and that StefanGP is looking into buying it out from under Campos.

Fitch wrote:The point remains, why would USF1 continue to say everything is fine if it's not? If USF1 continue to make claims that everything is on schedule and they will be at these tests and at the races, and then they don't show. What will happen? One, they look like the biggest idiots in the history of Formula 1; and two, they lose ANY credibility they have with the FIA.

Are they going to show up in Bahrein with a mock car, in the same way that they youtubed a mock autoclave?

Fitch wrote:The point remains, why would USF1 continue to say everything is fine if it's not? If USF1 continue to make claims that everything is on schedule and they will be at these tests and at the races, and then they don't show. What will happen? One, they look like the biggest idiots in the history of Formula 1; and two, they lose ANY credibility they have with the FIA.

If they know that can't make it, why would you continue to lie to everyone that you can? It just doesn't make since.

Sponsors tend not to want to give you money if you say "I think the chances of us making it are quite slim actually. In fact, I'd say Obama has a better chance of being invited to the Republican National Convention."

eytl wrote:So they should be.

As much as I support Adrian Campos, selling to Tony Teixeira after he oversaw A1GP's disappearance down the gurgler would guarantee that the team has no credibility.

There is another point worth raising. Amongst those demanding payment from the A1GP consortium probably would be the chassis manufacturer for the A1GP - and who should happen to build the chassis for A1GP? Dallara - the very same company which has a contract to develop a car for Campos.
Now, could it be that they have lobbied both Bernie and the FIA not to allow Teixeira to buy Campos? After all, Campos are already rumoured to have failed to pay up for the work Dallara has already carried out, and Dallara won't want somebody who has already defaulted on payments to join Campos.

P_Friesacher wrote:German website motorsport-total.de has another take on the story:
Since Campos has been partly bought by Tony Teixeira whom, according to the story (and somewhat understandably) neither Ferrari (whom A1GP still ows money) nor Ecclestone want in F1, and since Campos also could not pay Dallara in time, Dallara might help USF1 who seem to have the necessary money but don't seem to be able to build a car on time. Stefan GP might, in this scenario, then get Campos' grid slot.
I don't really know what to make of this, but since the website is usually rather reliable, I thought you might be interested.

Tangential relationship: Dallara designed the chassis that the IRL currently uses. Not as crazy as it sounds...

But it would beg the question, did USF1 actually have a car in the first place?

Cynon wrote:Tangential relationship: Dallara designed the chassis that the IRL currently uses. Not as crazy as it sounds...

And the connection between USF1 and IRL is...?

noisebox wrote:

Cynon wrote:Tangential relationship: Dallara designed the chassis that the IRL currently uses. Not as crazy as it sounds...

And the connection between USF1 and IRL is...?

Continental.

thehemogoblin wrote:

noisebox wrote:

Cynon wrote:Tangential relationship: Dallara designed the chassis that the IRL currently uses. Not as crazy as it sounds...

And the connection between USF1 and IRL is...?

Continental.

But neither uses Continental tyres... They use Bridgestone/Firestone...

dr-baker wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

noisebox wrote:And the connection between USF1 and IRL is...?

Continental.

But neither uses Continental tyres... They use Bridgestone/Firestone...

You know what I mean...

Yes. Yes, I do.

So, the latest news about the Campos team, thanks to an interview with the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 501259.stm

So, although he has confirmed that he is talking with other investors, he has refused to name them, due to non-disclosure agreements existing between him and said third party. He has confirmed that it is true that the team have fallen behind on their payments to Dallara:

BBC wrote:Asked about reports that the team are behind on their payments to Italian race-car constructor Dallara, which they have commissioned to design and build their car, Campos said: "Sometimes we pay the [instalment of] 7m Euros to Dallara and sometimes we don't have the money. We are trying to solve the problem."

However, he denies that Dallara have sold the car on to Stefan GP, effectively saying that it would be a breach of their contract.

BBC wrote:"No, they (Dallara) can't do that - we have a contract with them," Campos said.

Despite the fact that if he has failed to pay up, he would be the one in breach of contract, not Dallara, it does seem to scotch the theory that Stefan GP were seeking to undermine the team by buying their design and witholding permission to use it.

mario wrote:So, the latest news about the Campos team, thanks to an interview with the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 501259.stm

So, although he has confirmed that he is talking with other investors, he has refused to name them, due to non-disclosure agreements existing between him and said third party. He has confirmed that it is true that the team have fallen behind on their payments to Dallara:

BBC wrote:Asked about reports that the team are behind on their payments to Italian race-car constructor Dallara, which they have commissioned to design and build their car, Campos said: "Sometimes we pay the [instalment of] 7m Euros to Dallara and sometimes we don't have the money. We are trying to solve the problem."

However, he denies that Dallara have sold the car on to Stefan GP, effectively saying that it would be a breach of their contract.

BBC wrote:"No, they (Dallara) can't do that - we have a contract with them," Campos said.

Despite the fact that if he has failed to pay up, he would be the one in breach of contract, not Dallara, it does seem to scotch the theory that Stefan GP were seeking to undermine the team by buying their design and witholding permission to use it.

According to Ceefax, we should know by Monday.

They're beginning to be late. They could end up missing the first and even the second races if they make it.

Phoenix wrote:They're beginning to be late. They could end up missing the first and even the second races if they make it.

Bernie just declared that he is expecting Campos and USF1 to miss at least the first three races.
He also, of course, fondly spoke of Stefan GP!

rffp wrote:

Phoenix wrote:They're beginning to be late. They could end up missing the first and even the second races if they make it.

Bernie just declared that he is expecting Campos and USF1 to miss at least the first three races.
He also, of course, fondly spoke of Stefan GP!

I'm beginning to think maybe the delayal with USF1's project and Campos's struggles have something to do with him. Serbia would be an interesting market, doesn't it?

Phoenix wrote:

rffp wrote:

Phoenix wrote:They're beginning to be late. They could end up missing the first and even the second races if they make it.

Bernie just declared that he is expecting Campos and USF1 to miss at least the first three races.
He also, of course, fondly spoke of Stefan GP!

I'm beginning to think maybe the delayal with USF1's project and Campos's struggles have something to do with him. Serbia would be an interesting market, doesn't it?

While it wouldn't surprise me, do you reckon Bernie's been popping over to Charlotte, sneaking in at night and sabotaging the machinery?

Although you're right, Bernie's support of Stefan, when normally he'd probably be very much against anyone trying to do what they're doing is puzzling......

Valrys wrote:
While it wouldn't surprise me, do you reckon Bernie's been popping over to Charlotte, sneaking in at night and sabotaging the machinery?

Although you're right, Bernie's support of Stefan, when normally he'd probably be very much against anyone trying to do what they're doing is puzzling......

I don't think so exactly-Bernie is like Mr.Burns, there's no way he could raise a wrench without help He's paying someone to do the job.

fjackdaw wrote:

mario wrote:So, the latest news about the Campos team, thanks to an interview with the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 501259.stm

So, although he has confirmed that he is talking with other investors, he has refused to name them, due to non-disclosure agreements existing between him and said third party. He has confirmed that it is true that the team have fallen behind on their payments to Dallara:

BBC wrote:Asked about reports that the team are behind on their payments to Italian race-car constructor Dallara, which they have commissioned to design and build their car, Campos said: "Sometimes we pay the [instalment of] 7m Euros to Dallara and sometimes we don't have the money. We are trying to solve the problem."

However, he denies that Dallara have sold the car on to Stefan GP, effectively saying that it would be a breach of their contract.

BBC wrote:"No, they (Dallara) can't do that - we have a contract with them," Campos said.

Despite the fact that if he has failed to pay up, he would be the one in breach of contract, not Dallara, it does seem to scotch the theory that Stefan GP were seeking to undermine the team by buying their design and witholding permission to use it.

According to Ceefax, we should know by Monday.

OK, no news yet. But to me they are almost defunct by now. If they can't keep the pace of chassis development at february (I mean, reading this news now, not in november or december), their officially dead.

Popi_Larrauri wrote:OK, no news yet. But to me they are almost defunct by now. If they can't keep the pace of chassis development at february (I mean, reading this news now, not in november or december), their officially dead.

The question is - does going into liquidation count as a violation of contract with the FIA? It's the only way they can fall off the entry list for sure.

Here's hoping that Dallara get their money for designing the chassis.

The Toyota is very likely to be the better car, so Stefan GP better run that one.

kostas22 wrote:

Popi_Larrauri wrote:OK, no news yet. But to me they are almost defunct by now. If they can't keep the pace of chassis development at february (I mean, reading this news now, not in november or december), their officially dead.

The question is - does going into liquidation count as a violation of contract with the FIA? It's the only way they can fall off the entry list for sure.

I would hazard a guess that it would work out this way. If Campos were to go into liquidation, then the company effectively ceases to be. At that point, if they no longer exist, then any binding contractual agreement between them and the FIA, by extension, must also cease to exist, since one of the parties to the agreement no longer exists and cannot fulfill their terms. As a result, I would presume that they would have to be withdrawn from the official entry list.
I do wish, however, that Campos does us all a favour and wind the company up sooner rather then later, because it is doing nobody any good for anybody for them to be in the same state as Schodinger's cat.
But equally, even if Campos (and, equally, USF1, where the vultures are seemingly also circling overhead) fail to make it, I doubt that Stefan would be allowed to take part. For a start, it would violate all of the FIA's regulations regarding entry rights, but there would also be the issue of whether Stefan could keep his team going as well (after all, whilst he may be getting support from the Serbian government, this is the same Serbian government which is having to implement an austerity program drawn up by the IMF in order to safeguard it's loans from the IMF - and I can't imagine that the IMF would be pleased to see money being spent on such an extravagantly wasteful sport). Whilst Stefan may be stubborn, he is an amateur in that respect compared to the FIA.

Breaking news. According to AS newspaper, Bernie managed for Volkswagen to acquire Campos, assuring that the Valencia team makes the payment to Dallara. In Bahrein, Adrián Campos forfeits as team principal. But from what I read, VW takes over with Collin Kolles in 2011. The dates seem odd.

Anyone can verify that news? Or give more details?

Update: Hans-Joachim Stuck, from VW, and Colin Kolles have denied any association with Campos.
Has the Spanish media fraked up?